Psychological Hazing
 

I wanted to start a post and get some thoughts on the "softer" side of hazing: all of the psychological things, usually that the sorority side might put across; things are usually pushed under the carpet, but should still not happen:

- Scavenger Hunts
- "Kidnap" Events
- Forced Silence
- Restricting new members from certain areas of the chapter house (areas that do not have anything to do with ritual)
- Intimidation tactics
- Requiring new members to plan an event for the rest of the chapter

Any thoughts.... please share. I know we all have a handle on physical hazing, but the psychological and old "traditions" that die hard.... those are a gray area that we seem to have difficulty putting our arms around.

Thanks!

I have to disagree with the last one definitely, and depending on the spirit it is in, the first two as well. When I was in school each pledge class had to plan the semesterly date party. All the sisters helped us when we needed help with it (food, decorations, dates etc). I WAS NOT hazed in any way by doing this. Now if you don't get any direction from your pledge mom, or are expected to pony up tons of $$$ for an event, that's a different story.

Depending on the spirit, kidnaps, runaways and scavenger hunts can be a blast. I know that some chapters use this as an intimidation thing, but for others it's a fun tradition. I would be reluctant to say these things are always hazing or not hazing.

Some of the things I think definitely are:
-telling pledges how to dress (other than ritual attire)
-telling pledges who they may or may not date
-pressuring pledges to not have contact with their non-sorority friends

but then again, most of the sororities that I've heard of doing this to pledges, impose the same guidelines on their sisters as well....:rolleyes:

Re: Psychological Hazing
 

I disagree with these, but that's only my opinion.

I think kidnap events are bad if people don't want to participate.

This is one of those things that so depends on the intentions behind it. I've been involved with scavenger events in two different sororities... one in my national non-NPC sorority, and one in a local sorority that I was pledging at the time.

With my national non-NPC, both as a pledge and an active (back in the day before this was declared hazing), the scavenger hunts (and kidnappings) were fun. They were done in a light-hearted spirit, and to my recollection, everyone enjoyed it. When we were told we couldn't do it any more, I whined and complained with everyone else.

But then, when I started to pledge a local sorority, one of our first events was a scavenger hunt that was NOT FUN AT ALL. It felt mean, there was definite pressure, and we were definitely being hazed. I ended up depledging, because I figured if we were doing these things in the first weeks of pledging... what would they have us doing later on?

It really gave me a different perspective on the rules that had been placed on us in my national. When those rules came in, like I said, we were really upset. We couldn't understand why we couldn't do something that had been so fun. I still think it's a bummer... but I'd rather have no one be able to do it than have anyone else be subjected to what I was in my local.

I wonder if that made any sense at all.

i think a lot of the reasons these events are banned are not b/c of hazing problems, but accident problems. people tend to get hurt when they are running around doing kidnappings and scavenger hunts. in my chapter the pledge class used to always kidnap the brother that gave them the hardest time. over the last years of its practice, it led to an almost car accidenat, a brother coming close to catching hypothermia, and another leaving the fraternity, b/c he missed an importnat meeting when he was kidnapped. so i that some of the things you mentioned are not really banned b/c of mental durress, but b/c of risk management reasons.

Re: Psychological Hazing
 

Can't speak for other GLOs, but mine specifically bans several of those things as hazing (scavenger hunts, kidnaping, other mind games). From what others have posted, other GLOs also ban them.

However, we DO expect our pledge classes to plan out their own service project. Its part of leadership (planning/organizing) and doing service (service project, duh), which are 2 of our cardinal principles. So that I would NOT consider hazing.

For us, pledges are members in training, and only certain things are bared from them (holding a chapter office, voice/vote in chapter meetings, access to Induction Ritual). But they are able to do other things (coming to chapter meetings, coming to chapter events, participate in inter-chapter fraternity events, participate on chapter committees, etc).

Hope this helps

I disagree with the idea that scavenger hunts and planning events are hazing. I did both as part of my pledge process, but there must be some rules involved. ie- you shouldn't have to steal private property for the scavenger hunts...we were given clues to find out where the sisters were hiding, take a polorid with them, and then they would give us clues to where the next group of girls were. I think that was probably the most fun I had during all of pledging.

I'm not sure how planning events are hazing...sisters have to plan out the events for the pledges, so does this mean that the pledges are hazing the sisters??

I think Kidnapping is a fine line. I've seen some girls get kidnapped, and come back soaked, written on with markers, covered in flour, etc. I think if its done in good taste, and as long as the pledge isn't on the way to somewhere important(ie class, sports practice, studying for a test, etc) then it might be fun.

YOU might not think it's hazing. Your national office probably would have something different to say about that.

Guess who's opinion counts when accusations start flying around?

If you're an officer or know officers that don't know the hazing policy BY HEART they need to. Not knowing it and integrating it into your chapter's programming could spell instant death or bring great hardship to your chapter.

All of those are hazing
 

All of those are hazing, and include varying degrees of risk (physical and mental).

For those that asked why making the pledges (new members or NMs) plan and carry out an event is hazing.... it's hazing by the definition of "making" the NMs DO anything, and it's hazing by the definition of having them do it but not the actives. The emphasis should be placed on having event planning involving actives and NMs. The idea is to involve NMs in the SAME WAY as actives, bringing them into the circle of sisterhood right from the start and NOT isolating them or highlighting them by treating them differently. They should NEVER be treated any differently from actives. The only difference is that they are NEW to the organization and have less knowledge of the organization (its history and its ritual). They should be asked to participate in the same committees that plan philanthropy events, social events, etc. (but not REQUIRED to participate). The only thing that should be different for them is attending meetings to learn the Frat Ed materials. NMs should be allowed to attend regularly scheduled chapter meetings with the actives (assuming some ritual takes place before a meeting, have the NMs stay in a place away from the meeting until ritual is over, then bring them into the chapter meeting so they can become interested and involved in chapter operations.

In the same vein, the other events like scavenger hunts and kidnappings, etc show a difference in how the NMs are being treated, PLUS, those events tend to build strong relationships AMONG the pledge class. This is not necessarily a good thing. Pledge class solidarity tends to cause "cliques" and other organizational weaknesses. Chapters should strive to blend those NMs into the chapter and avoid "pledge class" identity.

"I know we all have a handle on physical hazing, but the psychological and old "traditions" that die hard.... those are a gray area that we seem to have difficulty putting our arms around."

Our chapter didn't haze us in any way - unless you call getting a present every week you are considered a new member psychologically damaging (I sure don't!).

We did have to do a pleadge class fund raiser that all pledge classes have to do. With the money we buy something nice for the chapter room - we bought recruitment pillows to kneal on. I don't really consider it hazing because what we are buying was for EVERYONE, not just the current actives. We did a raffle, and if we had problems selling tickets the already actives would buy like $10 worth from us.

Another thing we did was having to find out big sis's. We all got hats and a puzzle peice and had to find the door with the matching puzzle piece taped to it. When our big sis openned the door she had the same hat on. I don't think that was hazing either seeing as how it was so excited and we were all running up and down the halls laughing trying to find the right door. Once inside we got TONS and TONS of goodies/presents. And again, if you call getting presents hazing - then you're strange.

Hahhaa - I love when people asked me how I was hazed. I give them a disappointed look like - we didn't get hazed, we only got presents every week for 6 weeks. It was like christmas being a new member.

I <3 my chapter!

Re: All of those are hazing
 

Is this your personal opinion, or what your national says? (That question goes to everyone responding to this thread, incidentally)

So in other words, they shouldn't get gifts from their bigs? They shouldn't be recognized on websites or in the school paper as new members? If you are going to say that any differentiated treatment is "hazing" that should apply to everything, not just the things that take effort from the pledges.

I completely disagree. I can't imagine being thrust into a meeting with the whole chapter two days after getting your bid - I would have been overwhelmed sitting with all those people I've just met and being asked to contribute on matters I knew nothing about. And this was with 35 sisters. 200 sisters - that would completely freak me out. The point of a pledge meeting is to educate the pledges about how to run a meeting and let them do it in a smaller group. They will probably feel more able to speak up and voice opinions - whereas if they were thrust into a situation with experienced sisters, it might be very hard for some women to ever get that chance. They should attend a couple sister meetings before they initiate, but their main focus should be the pledge meeting.

Everyone has fits about too much pledge class unity - well, at large schools, the fact of the matter is, most of the pledge class will be the same age and those are the women you will go the whole way through school with. It's just natural that seniors, juniors etc - especially in a very large chapter - will be closer, and I think this natural function gets blamed on things that happen in pledging. I was closest to the seniors in my chapter, and only one of them pledged with me. I don't think rushing someone to form bonds with the entire chapter (and freaking if their pledge class bonds happen to be the strongest) helps the chapter at all.

Re: All of those are hazing
 

"making" a pledge DO somthing is NOT hazing. What is hazing is WHAT the pledge is asked to do and WHY.

Most GLO are very clear what activities are considering hazing. I don't think most have said that just asking the pledge to do anything is hazing.

One statement someone said to me that I always repeat is "Never asked a pledge to do something we won't asked an active".

The purpose of pledging is education, to teach the pledge what we expect of our members. If there are things we expect of our actives (written or otherwise), requiring the pledges to do the same is reasonable. If we expect our actives to wear their insignia, this is why we require the pledges to do the same. If we expect our actives to attend meetings/events, this is why we expect our pledges to do the same.

In my own fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega, we have both a Risk Management & Membership Policy which clearly defines what is hazing. We also have our National Pledge Standards. One of the points is a Pledge service project, and it states that the pledges (as a group) should plan, organize, and carry out a significant service project. This is done as part of their training both in the area of leadership and service. So I can not accept that asking our pledges to do this is hazing. Its not. Its part of their training and education as pledges.

Hope this helps

This year, the Junior League sent their provisional class on a Scavenger Hunt. The provisionals have a project every year. It helps train them in committee work, budgeting and delegating.
They are not allowed to vote and must attend separate meetings where they learn the history of the League. I took a test prior to being an active. Sound familiar?

This is such a sad state of affairs when something that had so much potential to be really good, yet due to the stupidity of a few, has been "discarded" (at least on paper). I think the point about accidents is really good too, don't get me wrong. IMO, these activities do help bond a class, but getting punched, branded, sleep deprived, drowned in alcohol or tattooed is insane.

Presents are nice. I thought all sororities go through that the early part of pledgeship. HONEST QUESTION- What are some other ways to building unity if not through tasks and cooperation? How do you get the TRUE leaders to emerge from within the group? All I know is the closest friends I ever made developed because of shared misery, bouts of jubilation and a few high-jinx type situations.

Hazing, the way I grew up defining it, is so different from today.
I would never want my kids to be harmed, but I would hate to think they were the type that would cry foul because they had to stand on a front lawn, act somewhat silly and sing songs to the opposite sex. The position of "pledge trainer" was almost as highly regarded as the president in many orgs. The few "mild" forms of hazing-get me a beer-get me a cigarette- were not scrutinized, but anything outside of that went through the trainer first. It was his/her job to protect the pledges at any and all cost. I guess the trouble is, it was left to an individual's discretion and some indviduals lack good judgement.

For those of you whose GLO's are part of FIPG, scavenger hunts are prohibited - I would assume for safety sake and, therefore, liability.

As far as kidnapping, let me tell you a story. A number of years ago while I was a chapter advisor, the fraternities regularly kidnapped the sorority pledge classes and took them to a party. One night some guys came by the dorm and took our pledges, blindfolded them and drove them off. The girls thought it was a fraternity kidnap. It turned out that it wasn't a fraternity but just a bunch of GDI guys. They took them out in the country and left them to find their way back to campus the best they could. The girls had trusted them because they thought it was part of the tradition. No one was injured but the outcome could have been far different. They could have been injured, raped or killed. At this point, kidnapping on that campus came to an end. Yes, I had a lot to do with that.

Just because it is fun at the moment, don't let that stop you from thinking through the situation and realizing what COULD happen as a result.

As I said before, most GLOs are pretty clear what is considered hazing and is prohibited. APO specificaly prohibits scavenger hunts, road trips, kidnapping, paddling, branding, forced activities, physical conditioning, personal services, limits on eating, sleeping, etc. This is all set down in our Membership & Risk Management policies available on our National website.

While I've not taken the time to study them, from similiar threads on this general topic, many GLOs and the various National GLO bodies all have very similiar policies. I recall someone from a social GLO posted their policy and it was pretty close to APO's.

The problem I've seen have been:
1) members/chapters who haven't gotten the message that such practices are now not allowed and still do them.
2) members (usually old guard alum) who disagree that particular practices should be banded and try to perpetuate them.

Educating the membership will help in hopefully eliminating these problems.

I went to informal chapter as a pledge (without ritual) and had nm class meetings as well. I come from a chapter 0f about 40 and it wasn't shocking or disorienting at all, it was nice to already be accepted into the sisterhood. we had a meeting before chapter to discuss what went on, and it was good to learn by observation so that when my time came as an active I knew how things worked within our chapter, not just on paper. I also think it's fine to keep the newmembers seperate, and I think other just for new member activities are very important. I did a scavenger hunt, but some sisters came with each group...it was fun and harmless. Just wanted to mention that going to chapter as a pledge isn't so bad.:)

hazing
 

hi- well basically I pledged a different sorority before joining nu sig- they shall remain nameless- and I have many friends in that sorority- but the hazing was too intense- i personally don't ever want anyone to go through that- it was military boot camp practically- the flip side is that it brought everyone together- and iknow that my friends woldn't trade it for the world- i wish i could have finished- but after three weeks and severe panic attacks 3 times a day- i was finsihed.... I took some time off and then pledged nu sig- i lvoed it and became very close with my sisters... after my experience- even though it was awful at the time- i think it is imperative to bring sisters together- i've been on both sides and I know that it is difficult for someone who has not been through it- to speak on it.... I think that pledging is necessary- they are not active sisters yet- they need to know their information- to know the sisters- they do not need to be intimidated or humiliated in any way, shape or form. Kidnapping activites are fun- we had our pledges go to another schools campus and find all kinds of crazy things- they loved it- my pledge class did too- they know our history- songs and yea they had to do stuff- but we all look back on it fondly- honestly- i find it hard to beleive that there can be true sisterhood and closeness if they meet with their sorority once a week or on special events- each person's experience is different and thats waht makes us all different-

Tend to Disagree
 

Just putting my two cents in but...

I really feel like the first two on the list (scavenger hunts and kidnappings) can be some of the most events during pledging.

Personally, I look forward to those sort of things...

The key here, however (and this was touched upon earlier) is not to let it get out of hand. Our Chapter has made mistakes before w/ events like that, and we've learned from them. For instance, if car accidents are a problem or a danger during kidnappings (and let's face it... the car chase is sorta inevitable :)), then simply not allow the use of cars during the games. For scavenger hunts, don't put things on the list which are just a bad idea, i.e. stop signs, girls' bras, and other things that could just really get you into trouble. Honestly, if you can plan these events responsibly, it makes all the difference between a "risky" event and a safe and fun one.

Oh, and having the class plan it's own service project or fundraiser is a good idea too. I like to think of all my pledge classes like a mini-fraternity. They are learning about Brotherhood and working together and orgainzing things, and at the same time, they are assimilating into the larger fraternity: our Chapter. By having them plan and organize things of that nature, they began to understand and are better prepared to deal w/ all the problems that can arise in the ACTUAL fraternity. Pledging is a lot like a "practice run" in that sense.

But hey, that's just my opinion... anyone else out there feel the same?

Bryan, I agree to a degree!

Risk Management has changed many things! We cannot have Assoc. Paddles that arre BIG with the Assoc. Class on them Shows a Form Of Hazing), Cannot force them to study, they can have their own meetings but why? They meet with the Active Chapter!

They can be voted in as Officers as Assoc. whether they really know what is going on! Depending on the size of Chapter of Course.

Force of any kind physical or physciological is Hazing! This is in many eyes because of all of the things that I see daily with Chapters being kicked off campus or Charters taken!

It is sad when I see a LXA Chapter losing their Charter for stupidity, especially, since all of the People That I know do not condone this and neither will the Fraternity Intrnationsl!

Re: Psychological Hazing
 

I agree to an extent that this act could be hazing. But, when done in other ways it is not. There is a period of time, supposed to be no less than 24 hours, that a Candidate must be silent reflect on his life and have no contact with the outside world with the exception of class and work interaction. They can only speak in class when spoken to. It's actually something that our national has us do. They can't speak to you, acknowledge you or anything. I'm sure you've seen this 33girl. During this time they are encouraged to reflect on their lives and studies. Reading is highly recommended, especially your school books and bible if you so choose to believe, you are kinda just supposed to go to class or work, meditate, and reflect. When administered properly this is not hazing.

Ok so 75% of the chapters in the world will behave and not ask for crude and demeaning items on their scavenger hunt lists. But not all chapters can handle that responsibility. A few have ruined it for the rest. Our insurance wont cover it, our pres is liable, why put our sisters on the line for something that? though innocent, it could really cause damage. We had a list from a fraternity that was the most repulsive thing i've ever seen. the word gentlemen, does not apply to this house anymore because a few perverts were in control of the chapter. I wish we could do the innocent types of scavenger hunts, but bad stuff happens and now we are all liable becuse some drunk ass decided to take it over the line. We need to find other ways to get people to bond, it is hard, but there has to be something, as effective, without the potential for harm and abuse.

It just disgusts me, what people will ask for on scavenger hunts, unless we can ban them from greek life completely we might as well just accept it.

is just anything in the world today hazing?

Sure, hazing brings pledge classes together, but why? It's not the humiliation and fear. It's the fact that the members overcame a very tough challenge together.

So how to get the good without the bad? Give the chapter positive, uplifting, difficult challenges.

Challenge members to double the chapter's philanthropy fundraising in one semester; to build an entire house for Habitat for Humanity in a single week; to rehearse till all hours for weeks on end and put on the best step show the campus has ever seen; to work out and practice every single day until the intramural teams could beat the school's varsity squads. Demand that every single member put blood, sweat, and tears into the project. This will accomplish every purported goal of hazing -- weeding out the guys who are just there to party, bonding the pledge class together, building trust among the members -- without any of the cruelty and pain and humiliation and danger of hazing. There's nothing good that can come of hazing that can't come about through better, safer, kinder, more brotherly means.

Ivy

I honestly think that we as a Greek System have good intentions, but over the years, someone took their "good intentions" to a whole new level, and NPC has really cracked down on just what it is that separates a new member from an initiated one. Without regard to these rules, charters can be suspended, insurance rates inflate which causes substantial increases in dues and less social events, and more. I apologize to those who feel these measures to reduce the potential of hazing are unnecessary, but I'd rather come back and see my chapter still functioning and going strong in 20 years, and a chapter based on mutual respect and rapport, than coming into my old house, which is now marked with someone else's letters, all because my sisters defied the rules in the name of adolescent fun and rebellion. Those ends, in my mind, do not justify the means. There are other ways to have a good time and gain mutual respect and fraternal loyalty. I think all of our "traditions" that are now regarded as hazing can be modified to an extent where everyone wins.

If you dilute your pledge program to the point that anyone with a pulse can become a sister without showing any real commitment, and continue in that manner, your chapter probably won't be there in 20 years anyway...

I was just thinking in my head, if there is no sort of rite of passage or test to get into a Greek organization, what's the point of joining a fraternity or sorority? What then separates fraternities and sororities from any other club on campus? Don't get me wrong, I'm not for the senseless beating or torture etc. etc. of anyone, but shouldn't there be some qualification besides a nice resume or flashy smile?

I agree, accidents are an important factor in considering whether or not these events should be banned. But I also think that they can be hazing.
My chapter doesn't do this so I have never participated in a scavenger hunt.kidnapping, etc, so I can't really say how I would feel if it were to happen. I'd like to think that if these activites were not considered hazing and my chapters was to have activites likes this that were would do it with the utmost respect for each other and make sure it was fun, and not force anyone to do anything that they were the slightest bit uncomfotable with.
I think the problem is that there are members/chapters of some orgs that cross the line. That where the hazing comes in. I think our orgaizations have banned these activites because of the certain members/chapters that have crossed the line between fun and hazing. If we can't all participate in these kinds of activites responsibly then we can't participate in them at all.