National Reputations
 

I was thinking about what I know about different chapters at different schools, and while most orgs. have both weak and strong chapters (I know my own is an example of this), there are some I can think of where this does not seem to be the case. For example, XYZ seems to be strong on almost every campus. On the other hand, DEF seems to be weak everywhere. I am not going to name the groups, as I would get flamed shamelessly, but does anyone else see a similar pattern?

Off-hand, I can think of 2 groups that I think of as always being strong, and 2 that I think of as always being weak. There are also a few that come to mind that seem to be right in the middle, neither good nor bad, on every campus.

Yes.

Yeah, totally.

I also see that sometimes the "weak" chapters of organization in the overall scheme of that organization, can also be considered strong chapters on that campus, and strong chapters of an organization can be considered weak on that campus. I don't know which is scarier.

It all depends on how the national evaluates its chapters. If it's completely dependent on things like grades, following program, financial strength etc, it's completely possible that a chapter the national thinks is wonderful will be the joke of the campus. I think this is more true of fraternities than sororities (since sororities have quota/total).

That brings up a question. What criteria would you think deems a chapter successful? A chapter that meets quota or is always at total, or a chapter that is very involved or has good grades.

From my experience there is a particular chapter who's nationals put a heavy emphasis on making quota every year. However, if I had to put that national in a category (weak or strong), it would probably have to be weak.

Hmmm... I don't really know much about weak orgs vs. strong orgs... to be honest, most of them seem pretty strong! I've heard of almost every single "traditional" organization (meaning NPC and NIC and a few NPHC) before I got here... although now I am learning more about multicultural and newer orgs.

I do see strength in certain regions though. There's only one other Alpha Phi chapter in Florida, and I don't think there's any in surrounding states. (Makes me sad, I'd like to go visit some other nearby chapters.) But every single midwest school that my friends go to have an Alpha Phi chapter there. Heck, my grandma sent me a congrats card when I was initiated because she went to UNL and had lots of respect for the chapter there.

As for chapter quality, I think it comes with making quota or being at total as well as retention rate. Retention rate could include girls who transfer or quit school, because it does bring numbers down, but at the same time I'm not really sure that's fair, because graduating seniors bring down numbers as well. One of my sisters stayed for so long at Florida Tech because of Alpha Phi, and that was it. She finally dropped out mid-semester and while we were sad to be losing a great active sister, we knew she'd be much happier back home in Vermont.

I've seen a version of this - when the National organization recognizes the stronger chapters, and depends on them to always take quota, etc. They (National) can then spend more time being supportive where they are needed.

honeychile

Re: National Reputations
 

With most of these groups having so many chapters, could it possibly be related to your own experience? I'd find it hard to believe that someone couldn't find a weak XYZ, or a very strong DEF.

I do think that the trend may reflect the effort that the National organization puts in to presenting itself. While I was in college, a group that was considered 'weaker' got an enormous amount of support from their National HQ--*several* advisers during rush. The energy and support from National got them quota and total that year; something they hadn't done before.

There was one WPC chapter, in particular, on my campus that always won all the awards, got the cutest girls, usually had the most members, wore the nicest clothes, and had the best rush parties (and still do). Practically everywhere else in the state, they were considered to be one of the lesser chapters. A girl who was a legacy came through and got into that chapter, while her mother was *shocked* that this particular chapter was this good. The mother's own chapter at her school had been shut down years ago due to low numbers, or whatever. Nationally, this sorority is considered to be one of the top, and this particular chapter constantly wins national awards. It's just interesting how a few hundred miles can change a chapter so drastically.

I don't think any one measure can adequately reflect chapter strength. It's a combination of numbers, retention, grades, intra-campus competitions like Greek Week, willingness of other chapters to mix with them, philanthropy hours, lack of hazing, etc. On my campus that is fairly well rated by the annual President's Cup competition.

I think the point about national strength is a good one. When your chapter is in trouble (something fixable like numbers), what resources can they bring to help you? If you need money for a house, can they give you a grant, loan or nothing? Any one chapter of any GLO may be weak or strong, and every GLO has some weak or strong chapters. But a strong national can prevent strong chapters from becoming weak and help weaker chapters strengthen themselves.

And no, it isn't just size or money at the national level - it's also the organization, values and commitment of the alumnae groups. Look how fast some of the new orgs like ONE and Phi Sigma Rho are growing, without 100 years of alums or huge endowments.

For those of us "seasoned" greek alums, I think you'll also notice that this perception changes over time.

For example, two sororities at a local campus - over a period of five years, switched places at the "top" and "bottom" of the hierarchy (numbers, quality, "social attributes" (for lack of a better term))...and it was quite interesting seeing how each was perceived and talked about amongst other greeks over a longer period of time than most collegians get to experience. It was almost comical.

Unfortunately, this is all "stereotyping"...

I can't think of any "national" overall reputations that are necessarily "weak" or "strong", with one exception, because I unfortunately see one particular GLO's name in the headlines quite often, from various campuses, all regarding hazing and risk management incidents. Not that this organization is "weak", but they sure seem to make headlines a lot more often statistically speaking than any other. (And, NO, I will not mention their name, even by PM, to keep ugly rumors from starting)....

I don't agree with this one. When I was in college, I always assumed that certain sororities were either weak everywhere or strong everywhere but once I graduated and had the opportunity to learn more about greek life at other schools I was amazed to find that it was not the case at all.

When you think about it, though, that shouldn't be surprising.

This is very interesting to think about. At the school I attended as an undergrad, the so-called "weakest" chapter was actually a wonderful group of women. They had the best grades on campus, the strongest sisterhood (very few members dropping out, very little internal drama, etc.), wonderful alum support, visible National support, almost 100% participation in inter-Greek activities (Greek Week, Bachelor Auction, etc.), and for many years, the only sorority with a house, but nonetheless, their rush results were the lowest by far...only 3 or 4 new members while other groups were getting 20-25. They had the reputation of bidding everyone, and they were often the brunt of jokes. It was sad because they were super friendly and SO involved on campus. I have never been able to figure this out. It seems that they had most of the criteria covered. I heard they are growing now, and I really hope that's true!

I feel like hter are always exceptions to the rules, but the way National gives an org support can and does make a difference in the chapter.
To be a maverick and name names, I have never seen a weak Tri-Delt chapter.

Who is really to say what is strong and what is "weak"?
What standards are being used?

hey XOmichelle, there is a weak tridelt chapter at my school.
i'm sure there's a weak chapter in every sorority, mine included.
in addition, what you or i may think is weak, the "weak" chapter may not. they may like things the way they are.:D

At the first university I attended there were two chapters there I perceived as weak or lesser. Now looking back on it after a number of years, I see it in a different light. One of them is definitely a really strong group. And in reality the school just did not have any weak chapters. They had a strong panhellenic and strong groups. I just don't think you can judge groups as weak or strong from the outside. And, as I said, after a while you change your perception of what makes a group strong/weak.

Of the 200 or so chapters in operation right now I can say that membership ranges from around 10 to around 200. There is a great deal of variety between chapters, the kinds of men you'll find in them, their awards and recognition.. Everything.

I've never met a Sigma Nu though that I didn't like:D -- and I've met 'em from around the country.

ktsnake, very well stated!

I will be the first to admit that LXA is not all grand and glorious all over N America!

That said, I will admit that my Chapter has had some tuff times, but We are in a rebuilding period.

Are we big Internationally, yes, are we strong in every area of the country, no, are we strong in every chapter no!

One of the ones that I had a great deal of respect for got into problems, but are in the process of turning it around.

Is abc crappy at your campus, but 100 miles down the road, they are strong? Yep can happen!:)

As Tom said, very well stated. I too can say that I have never met an AOII whom I did not like either.

As far as weak and strong, yes there are the traditional definitions through the various national and international organizations, GPA, large new member classes, campus involvment, etc... Conversely, as a member of a weak organization, does one(being a member) perceive it as weak if they are getting what they want from it, or do they let others opinions on campus let their perceptions take over?

All organizations have some sort of greatness from their members, and though a chapter may be perceived as "weak" by the other IFC/NPC/NPHC members, the members of the "weak" organization may see it completely differently.

How is that for redundant? ;)

I have not been everywhere in the country, and I could not tell you the name of every national sorority. But from what I have experianced as a member of only a local sorority, tri-sigs and alpha phi have always made a lasting impression on me. I'm sure that there are other sororities that are wonderful, but these are the two that I have constantly come in contact with at various schools, and have always been gracious, polite, and welcoming. There are others that I could not say the same for. If either of these sororities had been at my school, I am sure that it could have been a possibility that I would have joined them.

I think it just depends on how you look at it. Some groups are smaller with wonderful girls. Some are huge with not so wonderful girls. Some are weak with bad girls. Some are huge with good girls. There was one group in particular on my campus where their nationals did them wrong. Several years later at another school the same groups nationals did them wrong again! I think as long as the members of a certain chapter are happy that is what matters most! ;) A friend of mine said there was a chapter on her campus that got all the models but couldn't retain them b/c the girls weren't happy! So who knows!

I think I should try and take back my original post, b/c JohnsDGsweethrt you are absolutely right. It does depend on the chapter of girls. I have met girls on my campus and girls on a different campus, and my opinions on each chapter are different. Although, my personal reactions to all alpha phi and tri-sigs will remain the same, but only b/c each chapter I have met have been exquistete.

Well thank you my dear! :)

You are developing a sense of stereotype of a certain GLO, simply because what they are in your campus. Then, everytime you see or hear that certain GLO, you would bring up the stereotype you develop in your mind.

I think I develop that sense of stereotype to certain GLO from GC, especially for the GLO that don't have a chapter at Iowa State. So, I know it is not fair, but I would definately think of ktsnake or kitso when I see/hear Sigma Nu for instance, or ladies of Delta Gamma and Alpha Phi from ladies here.

My 0.02 cents ;)

geez man, no pressure there...LOL ;)

I think every group has strong and weak chapters. What makes a group's overall national rep strong or weak, I think, is how they deal with those issues. Do they do everything possible to keep a chapter from closing, or do they just let them flounder until they die out? Do they work with other groups on a national level, encouraging inter-Greek involvement, or are they only concerned with furthering their own programs? Are hazing and alcohol violations evaluated and dealt with according to the degree of the violation, or is the punishment "one size fits all"?

For example, I have so much respect for DG just from reading on here how they did everything to prevent chapters from closing - I'm sure at some point they wanted to say "screw it" but didn't.

I've never met a Theta Chi I didn't like. :) Also, I know we have rep for being backwards from most, as our dues funded as opposed to foundation based/funded. But its working out for us now. Yeah.

Just a little response...I can say there are some chapters out there who need help, who are/could be provided help and just refuse to do the work involved. Then they wonder why they are not getting anywhere, or why they are left to "die out". Let's say you have limited resources and you've got two chapters facing basically the same predicament (we'll use the most common example-numbers), one that's working on it and one who just isn't. Who are you going to help if you can only help one?

I think it's really hard to judge a inter/national organization just based on it's national programming, services, or chapter on different campuses. It's a lot more than just those principles. Alumnae involvement, structure of the organization, (both collegiate, alumnae, and volunteer) member satisfaction, member retention, etc. the list goes on. It even goes to the whole attitude of the organization from our New Members to the sister whose been involved for 50 years.

Basically what I'm trying to say is it depends on what you are looking for--what in your mind is the top priority as far as a GLO is concerned. I think this whole idea of national reputation will always be based on the mind of the individual evaluating their own set of preconceived standards for GLO's.

i completely agree that the chapter needs to want to do the work involved. my take on this whole situation is that until we have some clear standards on how to evaluate what makes a chapter weak vs strong, then i think we could talk for days and get no where. personally, i hate that npc has such a focus on numbers in determining weak vs. strong. maybe, it is bc i was a member of the smallest chapter on my campus, but everyone that was there WANTED to be there....and put in the work that needed to be done! i would much rather have 25 sisters who want to be a part of the group and make every effort to make it stronger than 80 girls...only 25 of whom really put in the effort. i have also known women on my own campus who joined abc or xyz because of their reputation as being the fun group...or whatever...and have been MISERABLE. things aren't always what they seem from the outside and you will never know until you get inside!

as far as what makes a national org strong vs. weak, i think that a strong national is appealing to women in different parts of the country bc their programming, etc. is made to be more flexible to fit the differences that occur across the country. i don't know if any group actually does this. i also don't think that a group is nationally weak bc they are more active in one part of the country vs. another bc there are so many factors that affect what schools chapters are at. i also think that nationally stronger groups will do what is needed to keep a chapter alive and well. i think that a nationally week group doesn't work as hard on programming and expansion. i also don't know if any groups are like this.

fire and pinky, I agree that the chapter needs to do the work, but the national also needs to offer concrete, realistic help to the chapters that need it. it's a two way street.

for example, if a chapter is having a numbers problem and all the consultant does is say "get more girls" without working on strategies that will work on the campus or helping the chapter work out internal stuff, how can you fault the chapter sisters for that? that is what we pay dues for. I don't think we are out of line to expect competent help from the people who govern and guide us.

Sorry 33girl but I have to disagree with you about consultants telling chapters just to "get more girls" as I have neverr seen that happen. I do know, however, that we are in different orgs.

My experience is more like consultants go in and try to help, make lots of suggestions and the chapter, which is already sick, resists at every turn. Makes me believe that you can lead the chapter to water but....

i agree 100%. i have been on the receiving end of the "get more girls" without the individualized stuff, like campus-specific strategies, or help the semester before formal rush, etc.

I've been in the situation where the consultant comes and tries to help. Let me just tell you, the techniques that work in Lousiana are not going to work in Ohio. My chapter was not taught techniques that would work, especially since it was too late by the time I saw us getting help. We had people who didn't want to do the work as well, unfortunately they were graduated or deactivated by the time it came to be serious need of growth. I've had experience with this situation, and let me tell you, generalizations about how many girls are needed and COB techniques cannot be focused on. It will hurt more than help.

I think you summed it up nicely right here, OUlioness! We had Traveling Consultants from time to time (I'm almost positive that every chapter has to have one at least every 2 years). Some of them were little more than EO spies, while others really got down in the trenches and helped out the chapter. Oh, the horror stories I could tell!!

I detailed on another thread how, with one rotten pledge, we went from the second largest sorority on campus to one of the smallest. It is only through the grace of God and EO's refusal to give up on our chapter that they are now pushing their way back up towards the top!

AMEN honeychile and OUlioness! I don't want anyone to think I am bashing consultants, but just because they are in that position does not make all their suggestions or methods perfect. they are human, just like any other sister, and at the end of the day that's what they are, just another sister. we've had wonderful consultants, terrible consultants, and in betwen.

sorry to semi-hijack this thread, but I get tired of hearing that any weaknesses in the chapter are all the chapter's fault because they are resistant to change or whatever. They are on that campus 24/7, the consultant is there for 4 days. I mean, we had one who harped on the fact that we dressed in jeans & sweatshirts all the time. If we had started doing pin attire 5 days a week, everyone would have thought we were in some freaky religious cult. maybe it worked for her campus, it didn't work for ours. that's a small thing, there were bigger things, but the consultants and national volunteers need to do a little more research before telling the chapter what to do. kinda like the pharmacy making sure your new prescription won't interact badly w/ your exisiting ones.

anyway, to get back to the topic, another thing that I think makes a sorority nationally strong is that even if they have all different types of chapters, they support them all equally. not just the campus leaders chapter or the southern belle chapter. These are your sisters, part of your family. Love and appreciate them for what they are, not what you wish they would be.