Question for ALL: Why should we not download songs or buy bootleg?
 

I read an article this morning regarding online piracy. So, I got to thinking about why we should NOT trade songs online or for that matter, buy bootleg copies of DVDs, songs etc. What's so bad about it? :confused:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../media_riaa_dc

I'm playing devil's advocate.

While I do download songs, I also buy CDs...

I listen to many "lesser known" bands, and one of the reasons that I DO go out and buy their CDs instead of downloading and burning them is that even though they might not be making a lot of $ of my one sale (I remember reading that the artist makes 10 cents off of each CD sold), the executives of their record label will see that people do like this band and they're worth keeping around. I just feel like I'm supporting smaller bands when I go out and buy their CD, even if they're not making bank off me.

I often download several songs by a band if I've never heard of them just to make sure their CD is worth going out and buying. Maybe this is why the RIAA sees that record sales are slipping- because people are seeing the CD ISN'T worth buying and so they hold on to the 1 song they like on their computer.

I think (get ready for a generalization here) that big music fans and the musically conscious will continue to buy CDs, and those who aren't musically conscious will keep downloading top 40 songs onto their computer, but in my view the top 40 artists don't need record sales anyway.

whew.

I think that's a question that older music listeners ask.

THe younger generation seems to take it as a God-given right. Music is free, I mean they give it away on the radio, right?

I like digital music as a medium. I like being able to dl 170 songs and mix and play them as I wish. IT's convenient. I do download music for that reason and also because I am a brooooke person, lol.

BUt I also think that there needs to be some form of artist compensation. THe present business model for the music industry doesn't necessarily do great when it comes to rewarding the artist either (think: there is only ONE Whitney, ONE Mariah, but millions who can barely pay their bills) but that doesn't make downloading right.

At this point though, attempts to shut down Kazaa and other sharing programs are kinda pointless. The nerds will always win (need evidence- look at what they did to Madonna's website). You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

No easy answers.

What did they do to Madonna's website?

Before the release of her latest album, Madonna flooded Kazaa w/ copies of songs from the album, that, when played, were actuallya recording of Madonna saying "What the F--- do you think you are doing."

In response, someone hacked her website and uploaded CD-quality mp3s of the actual songs for anyone to download.

In regards to the topic, a few things need to be made clear before one can begin to discuss how mp3s affect record sales, if at all.

1) A portion of the sales from ALL CD-Rs, CD-Rws, and CD-Rewrittable drives sold in the US is collected in a fund that is supposed to go to the record industry to help offset any loss evenue due to burning and downloading. As of this date, none of the money has been released by the government. Why? If the artists are so deparate for compensation have they not received a legally collected tax? Because artist compensation is not the issue.

2) Large artists such as Britney Spears, 'NSync, and other top Pop artists still sell platinum albums, so, what are they complaining about? Or, are they truly complaining at all?

3) No artists will EVER make more from CD sales than from tour dates. So, if you think you are doing them a favor by purchasing a CD that others would rather D-Load, then you are wrong. You do the artists a large disservice by never attending a concert than d-loading a song. But, since the artists are employees of the record companies, they would have you believe differently. Even a very successful artist cannot live on record sales alone.

4) Has anyone ever asked how a full, fininshed album can make it to the NET a full month BEFORE it is released in stores? The record companies routinely give away the full albums--- and not just to radio and DJs. With such carelessness, is there any real sincerity in preventing the pre-release of albums?

Basically, I feel that good musicians need to be supported on all levels-- CD sales, Tour Dates, radio and video requests. And what makes an artist "good" needs to be determined by the consumer.

The issue is NOT artist compensation. It's about who has control over the industry, trends, etc. and the record companies cannot stand the fact that consumers are more informed and empowered than they have ever been. Instead of trying to corral and control consumers, give us better reasons to buy, i.e., better music and better artists to support. The sloppiness and laziness w/i the industry has caused the explosion of burning and d-loading, not geeks and nerds with time on their hands.

I think it's all fair game and it keeps the artists humble. I mean seriously do they really expect Joe Broke to empathize with their record sales and money making potential when they see them rapping or singing about their "bling bling"? What you put out there is what you are going to get back.
I dunno.:rolleyes: ya know.?

I will continue to download my music with no feelings of shame until artists start putting out CDs with decent songs. :mad: :o I began burning my CDs because I got sic and tired of paying $12.99-$18.99 for a CD that only had 2 good songs on it, while the other songs were just a hot mess! Shoot, even CD singles run $4.99-$8.99. That too much IMO to pay for just one song.

I still buy CDs only if I like the majority of their material (i.e. Jill Scott, India Irie's first CD, etc.). But for the most part, I download.....and honestly, I really don't care if Britney Spears, Madonnna or Missy Elliot feels like I am depriving them of yet another Mercedes for the summer home in Beverly Hills. :rolleyes:

My music isn't available
 

I'm not a downloader. I suspect that the music I like (mainstream jazz re-released on expensive Japanese import CD's) isn't available in cyberspace. So I pony up $20 or so per CD. Easy to do when you don't have kids, a husband, a mortgage, etc.
:D :p

Just got this:
http://www.kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.j...fa/MG21050.gif

Re: Re: Question for ALL: Why should we not download songs or buy bootleg?
 

REKI is right... you will be surprised how much an artist REALLY gets per CD sale. I wish I had a transcript of the recording that Lisa "Left-Eye" Lopes made for VH-1's "Behind the Music" because she accurately breaks down how this industry works. I myself being in the publishing industry, I can testify that there are stiking similarities in the operations of the companies in these two industries.

I can go on and on and on about how downloading is wrong and it hurts the artist but I would be waisting my time. Downloading doesn't just hurt the artist that sings the song, but the songwriters as well. They get the smallest piece of the pie and they have to write for "several" artists in order to claim to make a decent living from it. To put another spin on it, all contributors to an album share 3% of the retail price of an album... can you imagine spliting 54 cents with as many as twenty people. Then is the song(s) contain a sample, then a select few (we'll say seven) get 40 cents while the majority (thirteen people) are stuck sharing 10 cents.

Something to think about.

I'm broke and I can't afford to buy all of the CDs that I want to hear. I will continue to download music from Kazaa until it gets shut down. When it does, I'll just find the next new thing and download music from that site as well. Call it what you want, but I don't plan on stopping any time soon.

All of these artists are on television commercials and TRL and 106 & Park telling people to stop downloading music from the net. A few weeks ago, B2K actually said that some artists won't be able to keep recording because piracy is hurting them so much. That's a bunch of bull. Platinum artists are still going to be platinum artists regardless of how many times their new single is downloaded and people whose record went double wood are still going have albums that didn't sell.

They can jump in the lake with all that "taking food out of my kids' mouth" garbage!! What's with all that nonsense? They can walk around with platinum and ice, while I still rock silver. They drive custom-made Bentleys and Hummer, while I am whipping my Hyundai. They floss out on MTV cribs, while I am living in an apartment. The list of comparisons are endless....

Look, I have heard that sad song about how little artists make, considering the "points," ways it is split, etc. However, I don't buy it. Left Eye and TLC admitted that they made BAD DEALS. Just like Foxy Brown is crying about her deal now, they all have the opportunity to read their contracts. But NOOOOOOO..... In the haste to live the glamourous life, they sign the dotted line and get bent over in the long run.

Like Honeykiss said, I got tired of spending my HARD earned money on CDs that are HORRIBLE. I should be able to rock the CD from beginning to end. I download songs everyday, all day and I will continue to do so.

I will continue to download my favorites because I get so sick and tired of buying cd's with only 1 or 2 good songs on them. I only buy the actual cd's of Mary J. Blige, and Whitney Houston. Maybe 2 or 3 others but I can't remember. But the rest of the artist I'll be hearing through means of downloading.

I have a husband, a daughter, a mortgage and no job, but I have never downloaded from the net.

If I like an artist's prior work, I'll take a chance and buy the newest CD. It's what I've always done, since I was 12 years old, and spending my birthday money on New Edition cassettes. I find it easy to rationalize that if a CD has 10 songs, at least 3 of them should be good. If it has 12 songs, four to five of them should be good.

I can't think of one artist off the top of my head who has a CD where every single song is good...including Jill Scott (What in the world was she talking about on Honey Molasses), and even my future husband, Nas. It will never be MY reality to like every song on a CD. My tastes run the gamut a little too much.

Besides, I kinda feel like it's a "trip" to rationalize theft. Call downloading what you want to call it, but it's theft. People are "taking" what they are supposed to be "paying" for... theft.

I guess I could go on and on about this "syndrome" of just because its on Kazaa or whatever I am going to download it, but it is no better than me buying a Greekletter shirt because it's there nor does it make it right because I paid for it.

To be honest with ya'll, even the best recording or publishing contract is not structured benefit the artist. One of the key points that is not being discussed is that these $1, $2, $50 and $100 million advances that you are reading about are actually LOANS that have to be paid back in the record sells. The record company LOANS artists money to record their album, to shoot their videos, to do whatever it is they need to do to take care of themselves. Then when the CD comes out, they begin making payments on that LOAN until they pay their advance back, then they collect royalties.

In the songwriters case, most of the real money doesn't come until at least two years AFTER the album or single comes out (assuming that their song was selected for the album and released). First the record companies collect money off of each CD sold. Then they pay one of four publishing houses (ASCAP, which I am in the process of becoming a member of; BMI; PMI or SESAC) about two to four times a year (depending on the firm and contract between that house and record company). The first payment can take anywhere between 3 to 6 months after the CD comes out (remember the record company has to collect the money first). Then the publishing houses pay the publishing companies, which can take anywhere between 3 to 6 months (cause they have to collect the money too). The publishing company then pays the songwriter (or his/her representative), which again can take anywhere between 3 to 6 months. Now lets say that I wrote "So Gone" for Monica and that was one of the only songs I was actually collecting revenue from. "So Gone" was officially released March 24th. If I follow the process of waiting until Monica's album came out (After the Storm, June 17th, 2003), then it would be about February to May 2004 before I see any kind of earnings for the song "So Gone"

There is more to this actually, but I don't feel like writing this type of book for ya'll. But trust me, the artist are the ones who get hurt IN THE END when you burn an album from the CD and not pay for it. I guess I sympathize with the artists on this issue... partly because I am one.

Were you aware that buying music has also become like buying software? Instead of "owning" a CD you have purchased, the companies wish to treat you as a licensee?

In other words, BUYING a CD is simply not enough. You break the law if you "rip" the CD and create an MP3 file in order to play it on your computer. You break the law if you transfer the MP3 file to an MD Player or MP3 player to listen to on the go. You break the law if you transfer the file to a mixed CD of artists that have a similar style. Even if you do not make it available for download or copying, you can still break the law.

So, at what point do you own the music that you have legally purchased?

In My PERSONAL Opinion, I feel that it is okay to make copies for your personal use. For example, when you buy a CD and you make a copy to play in your car or for your computer at work and it is YOUR PERSONAL copy then its okay. I know of people who burn a copy or two just to play around because they have a tendency to wear out CD's and with them priced at about $20 a pop, you can't afford to just buy new CD's everytime you wear them out. As long as you are using the CD for your personal use and you aren't giving/selling away, then that is fine. I think it becomes a problem when you illegally trade mp3 or other music files or you burn a CD and you give a copy to your friend (and not give them the original) or if you are a bootlegger. That is when it becomes a problem.

However, I would be wrong if I were to come on here as holier than thou because as much as burning CD's for illegal use is wrong, some record companies have benefited. When an artist is popular enough that people are doing anything to get the CD, then the record company does take advantage of that and release the CD early. In turn, if someone's CD is on the net and people aren't feeling it, artist are more likely to go back to the studio and re-record some songs and change their album.

Either way, its still wrong, but I thought I would point that out.

We all are guilty of "stealing" music. How many of you that say that you have NEVER done it have ever taped your favorite songs off of the radio to play later? How many times has your friend ever had a tape/CD that you liked and asked them to make you a copy? How many of you have borrowed a friend's CD to listen to at home? In ALL of those cases, you have possessed music that YOU have not paid for. Therefore, that makes you one of "us."

I have heard the stories about all the royalties, paybacks/loans/etc. because I have actively pursued a career in the music business. I know that a lot of things have changed since the invention of these music-sharing programs. The problem is that all of the people that are representing for the anti-downloading campaigns on MTV, etc. are multi-platinum status, Grammy winning, Bling-Bling wearing, MTV Cribs living, custom-made Bentley driving, Fendi/Gucci/Prada dressing, worldwide touring folk!!! Do you really want me to believe that you are starving?! You just sound money hungry to me. What I want to see is these poor writers, producers, and artists that every talks about. Where are they? Why don't they get on TV and speak out?

To be perfectly honest, 90% of the songs that I have ever downloaded are songs that come from CDs that I have purchased or already own. Take for instance Nas (Miss Mocha must be drunk off that Henny because everyone knows that he is MY future husband :p ) The songs that I have from him have been released on "The Lost Tapes," which I OWN. 50 Cent released his songs FOR bootlegging. When Nas's "I Am" made it to the streets before it was to be released, he messed over ALL the bootleggers, reworked the playlist for the CD, and made the demand for the REAL deal greater. Amerie had her entire CD on her website back in the day and that didn't stop people from buying the real CD. I can go on all day.

Instead of them attacking the people at the bottom of the chain, they need to figure of how in the hell the music gets to us in the first place. Some folks at the record companies are messing up. How is it that I can hear a song from a yet to be released CD when no singles are even played on the radio yet? Who are the people leaking the CDs? Once they figure that out, they need to check the issue at the top.

well said
 

I agree with the points mentioned. In addition, I just refuse to pay 20 buks for a CD. It is simply crackish. As I get older I realize that I am more a listener of 'older' music and not the 'new stuff'. If I do spend any money on a CD it will be on more 'classic' music.

The only reason for not downloading music is because you don't have the memory on your computer you're still using a dial-up modem and you don't have the patience. Downloading music really doesn't hurt anyone. I think CD sales actually went up in 2002 after Napster came out. Shoot, when casettes were still big everyone knows they just borrowed their friend's and dubbed all the songs they wanted onto a blank tape. It's the same thing, just easier.

I have a question I've been meaning to ask for a while now. When I used to download music from Audiogalaxy, it downloaded directly into Windows Media Player and I could hear it right away, no problem. Then, I started using Kazaa and I could listen to the downloaded songs in my Kazaa library, but not in the Media Player. After not using Kazaa for several months, I went back, downloaded songs and now I can't figure out how to listen to them. I can see that they're downloaded, but even when I click on them, I can't hear them. So, get to the question already, right? How do you listen to downloaded music on Kazaa and is there any other way to download music directly into Media Player?

Well, I download from iMesh. However, I listen to and burn my songs to disk through Windows Media Player as well. My songs don't DL directly to WMP, so I do it manually. When you are in WMP, click on Media Library. When there, click on All Audio. There's a little menu bar above the library. Click on Add. Click Add File or Playlist..... go to the area that your music is stored. If it's like mine, the songs are usually in My Media or something like that. Highlight the songs. Click open. Voila. They should be added to your WMP Media Library. Hope that helps!

Yay! Girl, you are the bomb! Thank you so much. I've never heard of iMesh, but I'm going to check them out too. So, to answer the question that was posed in this thread..... Clearly, I don't have a problem with downloading or bootlegging, LOL.

Downloading...
 

Artists make 99% of their money from tours, etc., as someone already stated. The points they get on the CD are inconsequential. As you know, record companies are the ones with the problem with downloading at this point, however, THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE THEIR MONEY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER; that's why they're in the business. Their plans is to start to dip into the lone bastion that the artists have historically had for themselves; their tours.

They will receive points from tours, t-shirts, etc. - all of the venues the artists have had total control over in the pastn - in return for giving them more points on each CD (BIG DEAL AT THIS POINT). So, the artists you love and new artists coming along will eventually feel the pinch of your downloading. You say you're tired of paying so much for CD's with one or two good songs on them; well, pretty soon, you will be paying a MINT to see a concert!! If you stop going to concerts because they're so expensive and keep downloading music because it's so expensive, there will be no more music industry. Art IS expensive. Be selective: support the artists you really think are worth it by buying their CD's and going to their concerts.

I download nothing. My husband is a song/writer and producer and once had a lucrative publishing deal (which record companies are now very slow to give and quick to cancel). If I don't like an artist's music enough to buy their stuff, then forget it; I'm not going to steal it.

NOTHING is free. You will always pay for it in one way or another.

Kazaa is not working anymore. Where are you guys downloading music from now?

www.kazaalite.com

1) TAKE KAZAA OFF YOUR COMPUTER ASAP!
2) D-LOAD AND RUN AD-AWARE 6.0 @ www.ad-aware.com

Thanks for the info. What's going on with Kazaa? Will something happen to my computer if I don't? Will I be prosecuted? Do I have to move my music out of the Shared Folder?

Hi I'm new here...............but Kazaa still works for me........a security issue came up with the last version so you woukld have to DL a new one