"Branding" is not hazing?
 

Saw this on Hermes; it included a few pix.


Fraternities brand despite health, hazing questions

By Robyn Smith


As the metal is pressed against his skin he doesn't cry out in pain. The only sound is a "pssst" as the white-hot branding iron sears his flesh, leaving a 3rd-degree burn. What takes three seconds to inflict lasts a lifetime.

For Alpha Phi Alpha's Jonathan Beverley, an Old Dominion University graduate, the brand shows how much he believes in his fraternity. The large letters on his upper arm dwarf his other body modifications, two tattoos above the brand. Beverley's brand, however, carries other meanings besides the aesthetic.

"Everyone talks about the 'process' of initiation into their organization. For many people, it's different," he said. "However, when someone is branded, a sense of commonality forms like none other. It's almost like a fraternity within a fraternity."

Branding is a popular practice in many historically black and Latino fraternities and some sororities. While some use it as an initiation rite, most brothers and sisters are branded after they become members of their organization and tell their brothers or sisters they want to be branded. It's a decision made by the individual.

"You say you want it, contact the 'hitman' and your brothers, meet somewhere and do it," Beverley said. The "hitman" is the person who performs the branding. There is no ceremony or ritual.

But part of the brotherhood is being branded by another branded brother.

Some celebrities are branded with their fraternity symbols, including football player Emmitt Smith, branded with a sigma and the Rev. Jesse Jackson who sports an omega.

Certain issues arise with the increase in branding practices. Possibility of infection is extremely high. In the late 1990s, two teenage boys decided to brand themselves with scolding hot paperclips. They were brought to the emergency room when their arms swelled up, which doctors believed to be reaction to the burning. It was later discovered the boys were allergic to the chromium plating of the paperclips. Other infections can occur from improper cleaning of the branding iron.

Another problem associated with branding deals with anti-hazing regulations. Most states, including Massachusetts and Pennsylvania, specifically mention branding in its definitions of fraternity and sorority hazing. New York has an extremely broad definition of hazing, which prohibits "any action or situation which recklessly or intentionally endangers mental or physical health."

Dr. Walter Kimbrough, vice president of student affairs at Albany State University in Georgia and an expert on black greek letter organizations, stressed that branding is not involved in "hazing" practices.

Branding is not sanctioned by the governing bodies of any greek letter
council, Kimbrough said.

It is a serious offense, as seen in 1967 when the DKE chapter at Yale University received fines from its campus Interfraternity Council when it discovered the chapter branded 40 new members with the letter delta.

Former chapter president and current U.S. President George W. Bush later told the New York Times that the result was a "cigarette burn" and "there's no scarring mark physically or mentally."

Expert opinions, however, differ greatly from that of the country's commander in chief. Dr. Rebat Halder, professor and chairman of the Howard University Department of Dermatology, said many changes can occur to the brand during the healing process. Such changes include pain, hyper- or hypo-pigmentation, where the skin actually changes color, and itchy or hypersensitive keloids and raised scar tissue that spreads beyond the actual boundaries of the original injury. Surgical options are available to remove the scar, but are costly and painful.

Halder, who joined Howard in 1982, said he's treated about 300 people with brands, mostly men who were fraternally branded in college, but also at least 50 to 75 women, some former gang members.

Many young people who deal with body modification have started experimenting with more extreme modifications, beyond the traditional piercings and tattoos. But finding a tattoo or piercing establishment to perform these body alterations is difficult.

In Syracuse, Scarab Body Art Studio in Armory Square is one of the few shops in Central New York that brand.

According to owner John Joyce, people come in from a fraternity or sorority when the branding doesn't come out right and needs to be fixed.

"I've seen some brands that look like shit," Joyce said. "If it's not deep enough, you don't get the scar you want. We can touch it up, make it better. If it's too deep, there's nothing we can really do for you."

Joyce, however, said he understands why brothers and sisters opt not to get the brand done professionally.

"The mentality behind it is good, the experience is good," he said, "but the finished product may not be how they thought it would be."

Well, I'll bite
 

If (and it's a really BIG IF), it's really the case that there is no pressure (direct or subtle), then it's not hazing. An act is hazing if joining an org or continued membership in the org (or being a "cool member" of the org) depends on your going along with the act. Even if it's tradition, even if lots of other members have done it, if it really is a personal decision made without pressure, then it's not hazing. It's dangerous, but it's not hazing.

It's not hazing unless it is forced. If a new member wants a brand, tattoo, or pierced body part then they are free to get one. Why would it be hazing if someone goes down to a local tattoo/brand shop and gets a brand?

Re: Well, I'll bite
 

Would it still be hazing if the person is pressured after he/she is already a member? I mean it is not like you can't say no. Maybe I'm being naive, but I don't see someone getting a brand from whatever org until they were granted full membership.

Re: Re: Well, I'll bite
 

Yes, it would. That's why I said "An act is hazing if joining an org or continued membership in the org depends on your going along with the act." It's also why I said "if it really is a personal decision made without pressure, then it's not hazing." And in an instance such as this, pressure could be quite subtle.

I know a lot of guys that have been branded. However, none of them were forced to do it. For one of them most of the brothers get branded soon after initiation, because they consider it a tradition. For another friend of mine, he's one of the only people in his fraternity that have been branded. He did it b/c he considered it a higher commitment than getting a tattoo or something like that with letters on it. The way that the guys I know show off their brands makes it seem like they were not forced or pressured to have them, its more like they have pride and honor in being branded.

I don't think that its considered hazing to be branded if you really want it. However, if a brand is forced, or if someone is coerced into getting it, then it's hazing. I love my organization to death, but I would never want to burn my letters into my arm, or anywhere else.

Gawd, how I really want to get into this one!

But even if it is given, (SO CALLED FREELY) and has been done for ever, it is not right!!!


I know who you are talking about, do you want me to put it up on site or would you?

I do not want to get into a contest on this but the First Bro who wanted to Stick a hot poker on me , there is a big goddamn problem!!! This is not showing what a big man you are, it is stupidity.

In fact, i will ask Preston, a friend of mine to show me his brand! If he does not have one, he is as smart as I think he is!!!

I will not go where I just wanted to go unless it is pressed!

I thought brands were tattoos for black people, cuz the ink wouldn't show up. That is the only explination I ever got.

So how would you explain Dennis Rodman's tattoos? He has more tattooed skin than not.

And you believed this?

:confused:

you're almost one of the most 'socially non-retarded' people that i know of. i don't know if you made that comment because you're really sheltered or if you're trying to start a flame thread. but unless you know what you're talking about, please refrain from commenting. . .it makes you look kind of 'blonde'.

;)

Don't forget Nelly, Allen Iverson, the list goes on and on. You really thought that was true?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Hey, what's wrong with 'blonde'?! And why use the term retarded in such an off hand manner?


I knew someone who was branded with his fraternity letters. He was a grad student and did it long before I ever met him. He was not forced to do it. He was branded to symbolize his pride in and his commitment to his fraternity. He did it after initiation. It looked cool, but I would never do it. I think that it is a personal choice. As with piercing and tattoos, branding should be done by someone with experience who knows what he or she is doing. You definitely don't want to experience any of the negative side effects.

ONE of the reasons we were restructured in 1998 (went from 60 to FOUR!!!!!!) was because they were branding pledges.

Ugh, what guys will make their NIBs do. PLedging should be fun, something they'll remember and can recall during their recollections of being an undergrad in the house. I'm sure branding doesn't qualify.

They were branding pledges. :eek: That's not good. :eek:

WOWhttp://66.227.101.70/contrib/ruinkai/sh1a.gif Thank you for actually admitting that you thought that... I'm sure there were a lot of people that thought the same thing. I hope everyone who thought that now knows that YES black people can get tatoos and you can see them very clearly.

Branding, as I have always known it, is a personal choice. I equate it to scarification, a technique used in so-called "traditional african societies" (and yes they had fraternities and sororities which were known as "secret societies") From my understanding it is primarily a means of identification.

My only issues with branding is that it's ugly as fizzuck. I've seen some brands, and some of them have been uneven and downright BOOTLEG-looking! :eek: I have seen some that looked decent, but it's just not my scene. Scar tissue and keloids DO NOT turn me on. If you get it done by someone who knows their stuff, I'm sure it looks fairly decent. Otherwise...ewww!

Call me an old school marm, but I am not a big fan of the ol' "body modification". I'm not a tattoo fan, and definitely don't like the look of charred flesh (i.e. branding).
What's next? Suspensions? (Think "The Cell" where Vincent D'Onofrio did some freaky stuff, or if you didn't see the movie, just click here (warning: not for the squeamish!)

When brands are starting to heal they are defienetly absolutely disgusting. I've seen some ones that do look really nice, and I'm guessing were done with a lot of care and persision. Of course, i've seen others and wondered why they would even bother, b/c they look so bad.

Funny story though. My brothers friend was obsessed with football ( well still is) and he had his older brother brand him with his jersey number when he was in high school, because the coach from the college he was going to said he could give him the same number. This number was so important to him that he wanted to brand himself with it. Well a few months later he got to school and needless to say he didn't get his number. This was five years ago and he still bitches about it.

I guess it just goes to show that its not only fraternities that do things like this over commitment.

:rolleyes:

that's why they get branded AFTER they have been a member. . .maybe he look at it as a tribute to his brother. true love and devotion.

We had a fraternity disbanded on our campus a few years back and they still operate underground. One of their initiation proceedures is to brand their brothers with a lambda. It's really a horrible thing, watching these otherwise intelligent, healthy boys walking around with an infected brand on their calf or arm. But apparently, it's some sort of legacy thing for a lot of families, though I'm not sure if I would want to be a part of a legacy of leaving a raped girl out on the fraternity house lawn to be found by police...

Needless to say, at my school branding is something seen as incredibly distasteful by most Greeks and non-Greeks. Tattoos are one thing. But a brand to us means this particular fraternity, and we want no part of it.

was just telling what I heard. Didn't say it made sense. I"m not trying to be retarded. :(

This is a little off topic, but I am even leary of people tatooing their letters on them. I know a lot of people that do, and for people in their org. for the right reason, go for it. However, there was an incident with a girl on our campus who ended up quiting her sorority and still has her huge tatoo hangin on her lower back. I know some girls in the sorority were not happy...but what can they do? It is now just a very obvious misrepresentation of the group.

We have an unwritten rule that you cannot get a tattoo with letters on it until you are an alumni. It actually goes back to the same thing, a girl got letters tattooed on herself and then disafiliated.

Finally had a customer come in who is a member of the branding crew. I asked him if his Fraternity did branding and he said yes! I asked him if he had been branded and he said no.

He said he was thinking about it and he said yes! Q: Why.

A: well tht is what we do!

I told him of the idea that tattoos did not work well on Blacks.

He looked at me like I was nuts. He knows me so I told him that wasnt not my idea, just passing it along.

Still waiting for P P to come in to ask him and get his opinion. A little more maturer! I will post when I gert his reaction!

My reaction is this I was just passing that along if anybody has a problem with me, then say it right here.

but if you are cool with me and realize i was just passing along information then we're cool, I'm really tired of some people who talk mad isht

Billy Chill Dude!!!!!

Not a dumb question, K?

Okay Preston P came in the store, he was out of town for a day, so did not see him.

We did not have time but will later over a cocktail.

Asked him if he was Branded and if his Chapter did it.

He is a Brother of ABC, OK, he went to a mid-west School and was emphatically against it.

He related a short story to me about the Hard Liners from the 60's who held a meeting for the Younger Brothers and told them how stupid it really was. That takes a Very Big Man to do that against the history of what has been done!!!!!

I would love to give his Fraternity but do not feel it is right!

Let all of you judge which BGLO P P is from!:cool:

I'm chill

Billy, ya got an ice cube in your shorts or what, Damn, dued, not a big deal!!


Dumbest Q is the one you never ask!

I dont give a damn what people think, I will not do needles or being Branded like a Damn Cow, Sheep, or Pig !!


????? Get the point!

to me, branding is for cattle.

i don't understand why people would want to burn themselves.:( i think it's gross. if you love your letters so much, wear a t-shirt with them on it.

I totally agree cash78mere

I had a couple classes with guys who got branded. Their Sigma was always just below the bottom on the sleeve of a t-shirt.

I can remember thinking in the one class (it was an American History class) that, we villify the slave owners who branded their slaves as horrible people (and rightly so!), yet here's this guy willingly allowing himself to sink to that same level.

I am against branding and tatooing in general, but with history in mind, I find the branding of African Americans especially repugnant.

And I don't care if it's done as a matter of hazing or by peer pressure - there are just some things that are wrong.

I have a lyre (sorority symbol) tattooed on my lower back. I don't think that branding is ugly either. It's a personal statement. Just as clothing, hair, and make-up is. There are a lot of things that i think look ugly but I'm not sitting around bitching about them on the net. This thread has turned from a "is branding hazing" debate into an opinion thread. I say keep it to yourself cause some of us have these "repugnant" things on us and feel that it is a very special way to show our pride in our organization. If you don't then don't get one!

Oh my dayuuuuuuuuuuuum:eek: :eek:

Optimist, I think people are in shock because it is pretty obvious that tattoos show up on black skin. I mean, do you watch TV? Have you ever seen Tupac, Nelly, Allen Iverson, Dennis Rodman, 50 Cent, almost ANY rapper or athelete?

I know. But I was just restating what some one told me. I didn't think that. Well, , I mean, I know that tats show up but thought branding was like a cultural thing, that was just for BGLOs and from my (obviously limited) understanding that that is why branding originated.

Don't mean to hijack, but I just have to say that if your tattoo hasn't faded you must have had one great artist. I have 2, and they are fairly new. While the one on my back is still in great shape, the one one my leg has faded, and it's not even a year old yet.

But back to the question at hand. If fraternity or sorority members choose to get branded of their own volition, then to me that is not hazing. However, if they are foreced or feel in any way pressured (because of tradition) to get branded then I would say it was hazing.