BadJocks has officially declared it the "Capitol of College Hazing."
 

Rotten to Corps? Texas A&M seems to have added another honor to its long line of school traditions: BadJocks has officially declared it the "Capitol of College Hazing." Last year, photos of members of its Corps of Cadets stripped naked and bound with duct tape were found, although no charges were made because it was "consensual'. This Spring their "yell leaders" (the Aggies don't have cheerleaders) were accused of not reporting hazing they witnessed, although no one was ever charged with hazing (Huh?). But now, the crown jewel: junior members of the Corps--who shoot off the school's cannon at football games--are accused of hazing sophomores by dousing them with "URINE AND HORSE FECES." Care to make a bet on whether anyone will actually get punished this time?
- www.badjocks.com

At least no GLO's have been implicated here.

Why don't I put a lot of faith in a site whose friends include "boozernews.com" and "malepig.com"? :rolleyes:

Yep, I agree.

Why are we attacking the messenger?
 

Why are we attacking the messenger? And the messenger's friends?

Not every site is linked to the Harvard U Library, or to the Encyclopedia Brittanica.

Some are just for fun.

This is a pretty serious accusation. Considering the source is appropriate.

Re: Why are we attacking the messenger?
 

Yeah...and some news sites are positive about Greeks or ortherwise. How about you find some good news about Greeks...it does exist.

Not the ones you choose to share with us at any rate :rolleyes:.Amen.

Pardone Moi!!

Yes there are good things posted via the servers that contact some!

But, DAH, go figure, the possitive is so small compared to the Negative.

Now, why is that?:confused:

I could be posting these as I get maybe 10 a day check them all and then delete them as I know hoosier can and will report them. To me, that is his call.

Maybe hoosier is trying to point out the stupidity of what is done by Greek Orgs. He is not calling anyone out but posting all no matter who.

Mine On Fraternity has also been include, so what. If they F**KED UP, then they should be suspended. ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT??

Quit pissing and moaning about what is being reported and figure out what should be done to make it end!

YOU are the Future or not of your Chapters!!!

The problem is Tom, this isn't from the AFA site - it's not even about a fraternity. It's from a site who, judging by their name and the links they give, isn't very serious or reputable. It actually looks like a site that gets joy out of reporting what they see as bad behavior by athletes and others, in a very snarky, sleazy way.

If a site or person wants to report serious news like hazing, they need to conduct themselves in a way that will make people take them seriously.

I feel I must reply
 

Are you sure it's that small?! That's certainly the impression you'd get if you followed Hoosier's postings. But then he only posts a certain type of article. There's lots of positive greek news out there. The sponsor of this site for one, greek101.com has a page where they show positive news about the greek community.
Certain things sell. Morbid curiosity perhaps. As consumers, we can make the choice to wallow in the dirt, to perpetually concentrate on the seedy underbelly of life, or... not. Hoosier chooses to collate anti Greek information and spread it around. Yes. How unbiased :rolleyes:. I'm not sure the fact he seems to fall over himself to disseminate information potentially harmful to EVERY section of the Greek community is admirable or somehow better though. It does not make his activities any less inappropriate - his activities being an unprecedented and unrivalled level of dissemination and regurgitation of anti-greek media.Wrong with paying for crimes? No. And in none of the numerous complaints from GC members about Hoosier have I ever seen any suggestion there was.
There have been precious few complaints about what is REPORTED. If that was happening, the complaints would go to the journalists and there may be comments here about the veracity of the individual article. What is being '... and moaned' about is what is being DISSEMINATED. By him. Ad infinitum. Hmm.... banning him would make it end. :rolleyes:

A search on Hoosier reveals 19 NINETEEN!!! pages of this stuff. He has - in the past - said "I luv the fraternity system" funny way of showing it... He's (if his posts are to be believed) a graduate of IUB (Indiana) with a grown up son. He also claims "I'm an old newspaper guy" - whether or not that means he slept under some on a park bench at one time or worked for one wasn't specified. We don't see articles he's written, just the more parasitic approach of a seeming neverending forwarding of online articles.
Hoosier's fraternity resume is unknown, I'd hazard a guess he may have been a TKE at college? The TKE mission statement incidentally is to aid men in their mental, moral, and social development for life; and the TKE Purpose is to contribute to the advancement of society through the personal growth of our members, and service to others. It seems they still have a little work to do in that regard, in relation to one of their alumni :rolleyes:.

Again the central fact remains Hoosier has dedicated substantial time to spreading ostensibly anti fraternity and sorority information to a fraternity and sorority forum over and over again - often regardless of whether it bears much relation to the topic of fraternities and similar groups. No real explanation for that.

One 'pearl of wisdom' from him was "Hiding bad news doesn't make it go away." No Hoosier. But it ISN'T hidden. It's on the 'net. Doesn't mean I want people falling over themself to thrust it at me either :mad:. Just who does Hoosier think he is benefitting from subjecting people to this? In around 450 posts he's scarcely had one positive thing to say about fraternities or sororities or for that matter had many comments of his own beyond an implied 'here is another damaging article'. And people wonder why we question his motives???? :confused: WE CAN ALL USE SEARCH ENGINES, WE CAN ALL READ NEWSPAPERS.

As for his comment "I'm sorry, but I missed the rules that apparently say that only posts that everyone loves are allowed. Some people want only things like "my favorite color" discussed."
Being patronising is not pleasant Mr Hoosier. There are, precious few rules purely because it is a site geared towards adults and thus some emotional maturity is assumed. It remains unclear why you come onto a site dedicated to chat about greek life only to direct vitriolic information much of which is posted, in random forums on here often with only the most tenuous link to Greek life if any. As for the suggestion GC'ers only want to discuss 'my fave color', that is puerile in the extreme. Though a significant proportion of the user base here may be collegiate level, it does not follow that the posts are largely odious and vacuous in content nor would they be by virtue of the user base.

Despite it being made abundantly clear by many GC'ers over time how inappropriate and undesirable the posting profile is to them, the act continues.
"In watching for Greek news over the past few years, I'm shocked by the number of chapters being killed by National GLOs, IFCs, and schools due to hazing and booze. By posting clippings from some of these, I hope others will realize the big problem this is."
Most public spirited :rolleyes:. I'll spare you more of his weak arguments, they genuinely centre around him suggesting the site is about Greek Chat and how his posts in his view nobly inspire debate in that vein. His cut and pastes are most likely only posted with the intention to stir up trouble. If I had nothing positive to say ever about or to a group of people, I wouldn't hijack their forums to push my own agenda :(.

.Decadence.

Decadence attacks Hoosier
 

Considering that 'Decadence' claims membership in Phi Alpha Delta (only a pre-law fraternity), and based on the famous alumni PAD claims:

"SIX former presidents were PAD members - (including) James E. Carter Jr. and Bill Clinton."
"Prominent attorney Jonnie Cochran"
"Numerous congressmen and senators including Hillary Clinton"

Surely this list includes the two worst presidents of the post-WW2 era, a slimy lawyer, and Hillary, a lying crook who should be in jail.

I'll dismiss her/him (Decadence) as a typical hyper-liberal campus promoter of political correctness, unable to make an effective argument without attacking the decent opponent within 30 seconds.

This all started out with a posting about www.badjocks.com mentioning TX A&M and a series of non-fraternity hazing events there. Decadence jumps right for the throat of Hoosier and badjocks.

We're against the hazing at TX A&M. It does nothing constructive to attack Hoosier or badjocks.

Re: I feel I must reply
 

Between this comment and hoosier alternately referring to himself in the third person/using the royal "we", I don't know which is making me LMAO more.


"Jimmy's gonna put the moves on Elaine."

Well, DECADENSE,

not everything goes your way nor does it each and everyone of each of ours.

If you would like to pick away at my posts, please feel free to do so!

If it is true that you were in a legal fraternity, then, maybe you as a psuedo lawyer know I have the right to my opinion whether you like it or not.

You can do all of the searches that you like! What I get posts good and bad, period.

The trouble is, I see more bad than I see good!

The - - -'s add up to much more than the + + +'s.

The - is seen more in the public eye than the +.

Maybe if you were in a social Fratrnity ( are you), are you? would know the the back ground of more things!!

I know what My Chapter does, good and bad. This along with what Others do, the good out weighs the bad in most instances, but hell yes, the bad makes the news. Ha, morbidity out sells the right in Greek Life.

That is why in the middle of the 10:00 news I got out of bed and emailed the biggest TV station in K. C. Metro about a Item on another Fraternity other than mine and took them to task!

They did not give an apologizy to anyone but me, but maybe I made a difference. Can you say that?

It is certainly not true that I have claimed to be a member of any fraternity ever, Hoosier. I have certainly not claimed to be a member of Phi Alpha Delta and I am pretty annoyed that you have said I have done so, in a post which naturally I cannot amend myself. So I would appreciate you editing it.

As it happens, yes I do aspire to becoming a member of that particular fraternity, if I do submit a petition for a charter, they will judge it and, perhaps, approve it. Right now at most, I am a member of an interest group which aims to become a chapter of an international fraternity - specifically Phi Alpha Delta. Please amend your post, as it would be fraudulent and inappropriate for me to NOT request you do this in view of my non-membership (which to iterate I have not claimed).

And Tom, I am NOT in a legal fraternity, hence all the posts asking for advice and feeding back of my own experiences on these forums about trying to start an interest group to petition as a chapter to one.

I have little doubt were it not for this forum my chances of sucessfully forming a group/it becoming as good a group as it may be would be significantly reduced. THAT is why I attacked Hoosier, because what came across to me was that his raison d etre (sp?) was to submit post after post of stories about greeks are bad/greeks do this etc. It makes it a less pleasant forum for all of us. I question his motives for that; for me it does not wash that to not post them will not make them go away - especially when that is ALL a GC member appears to post - he seems (to me) to contribute very little of his OWN opinions of GLOs. No other poster seems to come to this forum and post solely material which is negative about the greek system. The logical assumption might be said to be that he doesn't LIKE fraternities and sororities in which case why post?

The French author Flaubert once wrote that he disliked Uncle Tom's Cabin because the author was constantly preaching against slavery. "Does one have to make observations about slavery?" he asked. "Depict it; that's enough." But in making such posts Hoosier and a) not even expressing opinions on them (to any length) and b) posting negative articles largely being all you do, ad infinitum... we are left to wonder and the posting of them grates on us.

And Tom, calling me dense was uncalled for. As far as I was aware, I responded to some of the points in your post in turn, though I disagreed with the points I did not launch an attack on you? As I have said before I may disagree with some things you say - that does not mean I don't respect your views, or you.
And no I am not in a social fraternity Tom, I never said I was - there aren't any (largely speaking) in England. I just happen to very much like what I know of the fraternity system and would like to start a chapter at my campus that's all and I happen to like the ideals of one particular group. Had there been fraternities on my campus I most probably would have tried to join one. Not everyone has the same opportunities.

Also... upon reflection, I apologise for my childish comment about Hoosier in relation to a certain statement he made. I'm not going to quote my particular comment again but I'm sure you know which one I mean. Though I still disagree with him and his habit of posting a lot of these stories and would like to know his reasons for the pattern of behaviour - if it is more than an attempt at troublemaking, there's no need for me to be personal so apologies for that sentence.

I'm really duty bound to respond to a couple of other comments about PAD here too to clear it up.
I have no idea what your use of the word 'only' is supposed to mean?? To reiterate, I never claimed membership. PAD is a Law fraternity which, as well as having law school and alumni chapters also has pre-law chapters - the pre-Law chapters started in the 1980s the fraternity itself in 1902. I'm typing this because I do not want to contribute to misinformation through my own silence about a fraternity I am not a member of. The specific text quoted here (i.e. SIX being in capitals) tells me this list is from the website I created myself (Hoosier presumably got the link from my GC profile) for my own interest group; hence the amateurish appearance of the site - I did my best :(. The site includes the text: "Although unable to officially declare any affiliation until granted our charter we are excited to have heard Phi Alpha Delta International Law Fraternity are certainly interested in the possibility of working with us. [Views expressed in this document are my own and not those of The <deleted for this GC post> University]." Working with us means they have said they are receptive to the possibility of my petitioning them. The HQ has okayed my use of the term. My site also makes it clear it is an interest group and specifies that fraternity as being the one we hope to affiliate to.
The official website of Phi Alpha Delta International Law Fraternity is at www.pad.org. I have no connection with Phi Alpha Delta and am NOT a member of them; nor can (or do) I speak for them. Who knows what the future may hold - but not a member now. The list on MY website is taken from the prominent alumni list on the official fraternity website of PAD. I have specified certain alumni from the long list on that official site (those presidents, senators and attorneys) as those are most likely to be people that students on my campus might have heard of - e.g. Cochran through the OJ Simpson trial on TV, and naturally Presidents.Not my place to comment. It remains the alumni you list are prominent members of the Fraternity and are famous.It's 'him' (Richard). I was not overly personal, excluding a 'minor indiscretion'! I'm not sure how I was especially 'politically correct'? If you choose to dismiss my thoughts that is your prerogative, but I continue to question why you post the material you do. My complaint is not a lone voice in the wilderness. Other people take offence too - even in this thread. If you commented and debated here about what could be done to STOP and PREVENT some of the negative stuff which happens in the name of greek life that would be understandable, commendable even. But you do not. It is the absence of comment and the absence of explanation for the blindly posting continual diatribes about how bad greeks are, on a forum dedicated to them, a forum FOR them which I have a problem with. Difficult things can be brought up, take James. He posted (this is from memory so forgive any minor mistakes) a thread called 'Hazing works'. As one might expect, it caused anger. But, he persisted to say he was trying to start a real debate and the facts were though it WAS effective on some levels in building some sort of bond it WAS at a terrible cost... SO, he went on to ask, how could we build fraternal bonds without hazing. In other words a difficult subject important to the greek community... discussed. Your posts Hoosier do not do this. That is why I question your motives - the WAY you do what you do, and the apparent absence of any higher purpose to your postings. (eg prevention).No, just Hoosier ;). I never mentioned the site.We're all against hazing period. I attacked you Hoosier because all you are seen to do is post these negative stories. For that matter, it wasn't even possible for me to tell you WERE against hazing prior to you making that express statement.

This post is getting long and probably repetitive so I'll end it now. Hopefully it's reasonably coherent. I'm happy to debate more in other posts.

Decadence... aka Richard... not yet a member of any GLO!

This is a pretty serious accusation. Considering the source is appropriate.


__________________
DFE
Delta Phi Epsilon
Dedication Pride Excellence

Doh! If you learned to read, the sources are Channel 8 news, The Houston Chronicle, and The Associated Press...all of which sound fairly legitimate to me.

I'm gonna have to stick up for my own org.

Not only am I a Kappa Delta, I am a member (not to mention PRESIDENT) of Phi Alpha Delta LAW fraternity.

Phi Alpha Delta is the preeminent law fraternity in the country with chapters at 183 law schools (which is the VERY vast majority... i think there's only somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 or so total).

Why did you feel the need to attack an org who did nothing to you and who had nothing to do with the post? What does Phi Alpha Delta have to do with anything here?

And like several people have said, with a serious accusation such as this, considering the source is pretty important. Also, it's not a GLO implicated in any way, so why is it even on this site? Last time I checked this was GREEKchat.com

Richard/Decadance has more time than I do.
 

Richard/Decadance has more time than I do.

If your web page or profile lists a GLO, I would assume you to be a member, but that's not the case here for Richard/Decadance.

I frequently post GLO news items I find with "Google News". I throw them up against the wall, and see what sticks or attracts responses.

I just found a new signature, which pretty much sumarizes the chapters mentioned in some of my posts.

Have fun and enjoy.

Listen this section is about risk management, so obviously articles on hazing that shed a negative light on fraternities will appear here.

To claim that these articles are public and need not be here is stupid. In the same light, much positive news that is public should not be displayed here. The fact is that this site has been compiling posts/news/advice for several years now and has some information on it from other sources. There is nothing wrong with that.

If you have a problem with a post, why not find detail how the poster is violating Greekchat rules and PM the mod?

Those that did not enjoy the source, can say so but the thread is not about the source. One post would have been sufficient to inform people (if they were unable to determine something so blatant).

-Rudey
--Mature

quoted for the "stick to the subject at hand" crew - seriously, why the hell did this become a thead about a Law School fraternity?

Stay on topic - and guess what? HAZING IS THE TOPIC (read the topline boss)

At the risk of trying to reason with the unreasonable
 

RIGHT. As some posters here namely Hoosier have a problem understanding certain things I'll try to explain try to explain clearly.
My username for the record is spelt DecadEnce. Unsurprising you erred though, as I see from the rest of your comments that you have a problem reading. As for my profile/web page "listing a GLO" as you put it, neither my GC profile nor a sig. for my posts has contained the name of ANY fraternity EVER. As for the web page I created, it clearly indicates [in large pretty colours] the words "interest group”, plus text like: "XYZ is the fraternity we hope to affiliate to", "unable to declare any affiliation until granted a charter" etc etc. Bar adding a streaming audio file to the site with my voice on it shouting "WE ARE AN INTEREST GROUP NOT YET CHARTERED TO ANY FRATERNITY" I don’t see what more I could do!! I would have thought those words would make it clear it was NOT a chapter of a fraternity... to all but the least sentient of people?
As for me "having more time than you", Hoosier; while I'm not quite sure how you arrive at that conclusion, it's hard to see how anyone could period, when such a large proportion of your time is clearly devoted to filling up this board with your relentless dirge.
In reference to the rest of the posters here defending his contemptible acts, leaving aside the fact "bellauwood2" is a new member with only one post ever - causing me to wonder how close that poster's logged IP address might be to certain others in this thread... (the text by the way of the post is a cut and paste of the one made by 'Cream' earlier)... I CAN read, I have learnt thank you. Conversely, it seems Hoosier either cannot or will not. The veracity of a news story is in no way related to how many papers in happens to be syndicated through. This is leaving aside exactly how irrelevant the story was to this forum which I'll spell out a little more later for 'certain people'. Do you now... GLO stands for "Greek Letter Organisation" those are fraternities or sororities named with Greek Letters - the clue is in the name. :rolleyes: Contrary to what you seem to think, "Corps of Cadets" is NOT a fraternity, NOT a sorority, is NOT named with Greek letters, has NOTHING to do with greek life, is therefore WHOLLY inappropriate for Greekchat and therefore (in my opinion and clearly others’ too) should NOT be here. As for your "throwing them up against the wall" drivel, to paraphrase that, would be to say "I inflame, stir up and cause trouble, incite contention". Sad. Pretty much ALL you do is post these news items. Thanks, I know what the section is for Rudey. I utterly fail to see how a news article which has nothing to do with any fraternity whatsoever could possibly manage to 'shed negative light on fraternities'?
Re HAZING being the topic, Hazing is the subtopic, the topic of the entire BOARD is Greek Letter ORG's. On the thread mentioning a Law fraternity, I'll try to explain KsigRC. I'm pretty much incandescent with rage about this. "Hoosier", in lieu of any actual justification for his behaviour went off in search of something - anything - to say. After looking at my GC profile (it contains a link to a site I created for the interest group I’m part of – you probably heard me talk about it in other posts unlike Hoosier who no doubt generally doesn’t read much of GC (?) having apparent little interest in promoting, enjoying or furthering Greek Life) Hoosier desparately attempted to bring a fraternity into this thread and suggest I claimed membership of it, in a laughable attempt to attack me and somehow justify something, succeeding only in embarrassing himself by ignoring the words interest group, not a member of XYZ etc etc which are all in nice big letters on the pages. In any case, Hoosier doesn’t only post this stuff in the Risk Management forum, the Greek Life forum is OFTEN :( subjected to it as well. Despite complaints made. :mad: And so we finally reach the crux of your nasty persistent discrediting-attempt greek smear campaign do we? "FUN"? Is this why you subject us to all this?? Posting in excess of 450 items over time since only Jan 2002 all to subvert Greek life (!!!), ignoring the wishes of the vast majority here. Get a kick out of it huh?
Still, I don't expect a reply; feel free to "dismiss me as a hyper liberal - whatever you said" I'm a big boy and can take it. Perhaps if and when you emotionally mature you might cease to get malicious enjoyment from trying to fill a forum dedicated TO and FOR greeks with information negative to greek life - much of which as has been said isn't even Greek info in the first place.
Tom Earp, your passion and admiration for greek life is not in question. Your devotion and hard work to the Greek community is nothing but admired. Despite how you may disagree with my calling Hoosier up on all of this, I still have a lot of respect for you and have no venom or bad feeling toward you. Conversely, Hoosier sadly, does not follow fraternity news and fraternity life with the same noble ideals and genuine interest in them as you so clearly do. My opinion of you Tom, is that you are a shining example of what a lifelong member of a fraternity should be - your passion for LXA not diminished by time, and a credit to your organisation now, as before. Hoosier meanwhile just seems to be a pustule on the face of this messageboard.
His entire demeanour toward fraternities it seems is animosity - evidenced BY an utter inability to explain why (without sidetracking into details about how I’m a member of a GLO (complete drivel, no webpage said anything of the sort) and, incoherent rambling about how that GLO to which he incorrectly ascribes me has an alumni lawyer he doesn't like... yawn) he posts this stuff over and over and over. In failing to respond, perhaps Hoosier feels it’s better for people to assume him an idiot than to open his mouth and remove all doubt? Perhaps that’s why he pretty much never actually comes out with a view on a fraternity beyond parasitically scanning the net for dirt in an attempt to "contribute". Then again maybe he thinks it is better not to participate in arguments in which he is ill equipped to defend himself? Rudey, the thread is not about the source per se. The reason people mentioned the source at all is because it is so 'trashy' and so, questionable. Moreover, the thread diversified into discussion on how the post was not remotely anything to do with Greek life anyway. Hoosier attempted to bring a 100% unrelated fraternity into this, but the fundamental topic the thread IS centring around is not simply one isolated post of an article (however irrelevant) but a discussion on exactly WHY Hoosier is choosing to do this generally – in other words his posts in general not this one thread. As yet no real response from him.

We all know why **I'm** here on GC. A clear passion for the ideals of greek life, trying to start my own interest group which will hopefully petition for a chapter of an international, I ask for help with some issues, debate other issues, I enthusiastically offer help whenever I can to other GC'ers on any subjects which I am qualified to do so, et cetera. In other words I have a genuine and honest interest in what the messageboard is about. Sadly it seems to be all too clear why Hoosier is here too :(. IT IS THE PATTERN not a single example which we are talking about. All "Hoosier" does is post this. It's no surprise there is discussion about this.
Again, the rules of GC are not many. GC is considered a forum for adults not children and thus I imagine it is hoped posters use the forum in good faith and respect others... as opposed to coming on purely to cause trouble and never managing to say anything positive about GLOs in the space of sixteen months. I mean, if you intrinsically don't LIKE fraternities or sororities why be a member of a group (online or otherwise) where you will end up hanging around people who're in them? Difficult to believe you do like them if this is how you communicate about them.

There’s a world of difference between say James or Ilovemyglo (first two GC’ers I just thought of :) ) posting, with a tinge of sadness, a negative story they have come across about a fraternity, and someone else who solely does that without ever doing anything else. In light, of that not being their (James'/ IlovemyGLO'/random member's) raison d etre. Posting story after story without ever doing anything else and doing it all with a smile on your lips and a song in your heart, in a wholescale directed effort to discredit greek life is just not the same ballpark.

As for your suggestion of PM'ing the mods or administrators, that I guess is an option open to me yes. Thank you. As a mere member, it is up to the moderators what they do with my opinion, everything is at their discretion. I wanted to give Hoosier a chance to respond, in seek of an explanation for his reprehensible conduct. To date he has failed to give one. It’s my opinion that Hoosier threatens the integrity of this online community, deliberately tries to cause trouble and offence, albeit in a more insidious and less obvious way than others upon whom the moderators and administrators have taken action upon in the past. I may act on your suggestion.

Feedback welcome.

-- Decadence.

Dollar-wise
 

So far, this non-GLO-member and reputedly future lawyer has racked up about 14 hours of billable time, attacking this lovable Hoosier teddy bear.

I think the 14 hours - probably at $150 - $200 per hour - are because:

1 - he doesn't think TX A&M is the capital of hazing

or

2 - he doesn't think this forum of geniuses should be soiled by mentioning www.badjocks.com

or

3 - that law fraternity is not receptive to him or his weeney A&T teachers junior college and welding school.

or

4 - he doesn't like any Hoosiers
(he probably didn't like Bobby Knight either)

or

5 - he feels bad Sadaam lost

I think an upcoming post will include his Pay Pal account number, asking his GC Friends to donate to help him recover part of his billable hours.

Hoosier does love GLOs, especially the neighbor Chi O's in Bloomington, who were immortalized by Hoagy Carmichael in this snappy ditty: "We love the Chi O's, we always will,
'cause a Chi O always will"

Hoosier is uncertain about a certain law fraternity, especially considering their choice in alumni.

Hmm. No response to my actual points then?

Re: At the risk of trying to reason with the unreasonable
 

Hi boss -

I'm not going to go through point-by-point, as I have a limited amount of time to complete an inordinate number of tasks today - however, I'll make three easy-to-quote comments that you can respond to in like:

1- You completely strawmanned Hoosier's purpose here with your incessent attacking and counterattacking back and forth (and, yes, Hoosier has weakened his stance by doing the same) - can you not see this?

2 - If your reason for being on the board is your interest group, and you seem to be asserting that to be a goal of the highest order (which I won't argue with), why would you cut on Hoosier for having a similarly singular reason for posting?

Personally, I find Hoosier to be a valuable member of this board - the things he posts are far more valuable to the greek community (generally social greeks, but again they comprise a large portion of greek life) than almost any other posts in this forum, greek life, and etc.

3 - Finally . . . you again strawman the argument with your semantic argument about "topic/subtopic" - being a pedantic ass doesn't get anyone anywhere; our discussion here is quickly falling off the cliff into fallacious logic and faulty argument.

Bottom line: this is a forum set up to discuss Risk Management issues - and hazing is one of the two biggest issues facing greek life today, in my opinion (the other being drug/alcohol use/abuse). If you don't desire discussion, or don't like the way Hoosier presents things, fine - but don't resort to ad hominem attacks and then claim the moral highground. That's ridiculous - if you desire, take the high road and discuss the topic in a mature fashion, just like you're asking everyone else to.

I'm tired/drained
 

Hmm, I wasn't trying to say 'look at me I'm so great'. What I meant, was I merely have a legitimate reason for being here, an interest in chatting about Greek life (GreekChat). That's all. Someone who posts in the Rush forum 'there are x sororities on my campus, what do you think of them etc etc' also has a similarly valid reason (though different) for being here. Someone with a nickname like ilovemyglo (sorry to keep picking on the same person but that screenname illustrates things so well!) is clearly here because they love the Greek group they're a part of - so naturally they wanna chat about it and what better place than GreekChat?! Likewise, the words KSig are in your screen-name so I'd guess you're part of a GLO with the words Kappa Sigma in it... talking about something you are involved in is normal... hence you're here in Greekchat too.

Hoosier though seems to have no reason for being here other than to shout "Greeks suck. Look, I've brought evidence!" :rolleyes: Nothing CONSTRUCTIVE is ever said by him. There's no debate, nothing damnit. :(. I disagree with him being a valuable member of this board and respectfully and gently state I feel you misunderstand his motives. Yes, Hazing IS one of the most important topics facing greeks. I'm reminded of this every time I have an interest meeting and the new people ask me if they're gonna be made to eat goldfish/run around topless/if it's true what their friend said or what they heard, etc. (and yes those questions were asked).

But Hoosier's motive seem to me not to be to "highlight an issue close to his heart in the hope a community will seek new ways to combat the problem". It seems to be merely a wish to *rub our noses in the fact* there are some idiots out there who like to bully people trying to join their orgs. Ksig, he doesn't seem to be saddened by the fact some more negative publicity has come along... he seems to REVEL IN IT.

I'm not trying to hide away from the Hazing issue, damn no. But it CAN be discussed constructively, across this entire buletin board. I've read posts in the HBGLO forums analysing hazing - with ideas put forward such as alumni and people important in their community coming along on an afternoon to the dining areas; explaining this is hazing and what to do about it here's a tel # on which to report it. I've seen people tackling head on *why* hazing has been prevalent and considering what ways to accomplish the same positive end-results (if any) those who indulged in it deemed it had. I've seen sadness expressed at what's been done in the name of brotherhood and sisterhood.
And then... there's the impression I get from Hoosier's posts.

Maybe I'm flogging a dead horse, maybe I should shut the hell up :(. Maybe I'm oh-so-confused. Maybe all I'm doing is pissing people off. There certainly isn't a flood of responses in the same vein of mine (as an aside: heartfelt thanks for those who did comment in support).

As for my 'personal remarks' aka insults, yeah maybe they weaken my stance a bit but they were made impetuously, in the course of making other considered points. ALL I've seen from Hoosier is attacks without any actual points made; without responses to issues raised or answers to questions. So yeah there was some name calling on my part in the course of debating - but s'all there was from him, ever. I HAVE asked what his motives are, whether he even likes/supports fraternities and sororities. The only (IMO not particularly humorous) response he seemed to make was some crap suggesting how members of a certain sorority were 'easy'. :confused:

I'm not trying to suggest I'm superior or better than the next guy - I'm not. I dunno maybe I should go away if I don't like it. Hell, I don't like his actions, I don't support his apparent agenda. No way do I get the impression he's nobly making heartfelt attempts to improve the community his beloved fraternity (if he is in one) is a part of. I just can't help thinking of that quote, went something like "all that's needed for evil to triumph is for good 'men' to do nothing". That's why this thread has me in it giving my views. Often the stuff he regurgitates has a tenuous or non existent connection with GLOs anyway.
Look at the Hazing forum itself, even the first page of threads is filled with threads started by him - let alone the rest of the pages, over time. There are other thread starters, sure. But they're always posted with comments like 'when will we ever learn'. Those GC members intentions are not under debate. They're not appearing to take <if I could remember that German word which means 'to take a malicious pleasure in someone else's misfortune' it'd be put here> in all of this.

And yep, Hazing is kinda the topic for this sub-forum/forum/whatever but it's not provided so Hoosier can simply say 'here's yet another article, I hope all you people out there know what 'you' spend your time doing - you sickos'. Risk Management is about managing risks, addressing the issues.
Christ he's been here a year and a half almost, not once has he seemed to debate how the problems can be addressed, given any views on how to combat the evils of hazing yet still people commend him??? All he does is post this anti greek information over and over and over. Does the word Troll mean nothing to GC'ers :confused: :confused: ? This link explains it. Seems to sum things up :( .

There is one HELL of a difference between bravely highlighting the spectre of hazing in an effort to improve greek life as a whole and waving examples around like trophies, in an effort to weaken it.

That's all I have to say about that now. Sorry if I'm boring, I don't wanna sound like a broken record.

... Richard

Re: I'm tired/drained
 

I feel everything you just said - it seemed to be from the heart, and I can appreciate that. But here's my point, in three sentences:

-I don't find your style of argumentation particularly appealing, and if you'd like to argue a particular point, feel free to stray from logical fallacies and attacking the person (just like Hoosier should, but doesn't always) - then we're having an intellectual discussion, and maybe then you'll be justified in what often seems to be an 'ivory tower' reaction

-Regardless of his intentions, Hoosier provides a valuable resource - REGARDLESS! - as his posts highlight things many (esp on here) would rather sweep under the rug . . . take a look at what happens when some of our more highly represented organizations were accused for examples (the magical "search" feature)

-Sir, we're more than familiar with trolls around here - we get them like no other message board you've ever seen.

Richard - you seem like a level guy, I'm glad you're here, and I hope you understand where I'm coming from a little better

Yeah, ummm I'm creating a collection of rather large posts and this thread qualifies for half that collection.

-Rudey
--Look for it in the "Big Book of Crap Nobody Cares About"

To quote the LINK Richard posted:
 

To quote the LINK Richard posted:

"The noun form, troll, ... frequently this is used to discredit one position in an argument. By asserting that one's opponents are trolls, one is asserting that they are only maintaining their position in order to feed the flames, and that their position is actually indefensible."

Yes, all of my advisors agree that Richard falsely accuses Hoosier of being a Troll, in an attempt to discredit Hoosier personally.

What is that Pay Pal account number?

PS: I've always admired the Kappa Sigs, and have visited their mansion/hdqtrs. in Charlottesville. Their members - especially KSig RC - seem to post very intelligent thoughts, often summarizing in a few words what others take multi-paragraphs and pages to say.

My mistake. I'm sorry
 

My mistake. I'm sorry I wasted the GC's time and cyberspace by posting something which caught the attention of hyper-user Richard/Decadence.

When I looked up some of his recent posts, I learned that he mostly lives in ChitChat, so Hazing/Risk Management is way over his head.

Here's a few examples of his level of competence, and I hope he stays in ChitChat:


"Does anyone use the shampoo (blue) and conditioner (yellow) from the Olsen twins range?
Smell really nice and claim to be really good for your hair. So I, uh, heard..."



"I don't think I have a regional accent myself. :)
But I've been told lots of times 'Ooh you sound like Hugh Grant'. Or that I sound 'posh'. Can't see it myself oh well."

... Decadence

SHUP UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!

Geez, ya'll are making Greeks look like a bunch of petty, whining complainers. I don't care if you two, Hoosier and DecadEnce, don't like each other. Take it to PM so the rest of us don't have to hear about it. ("Don't read the thread if you don't like it?" I was trying to read a thread about hazing at A&M, not about whose balls are bigger.) I don't care who has how much free time, what your credentials are, or what your motivations are in posting.

Now, back to the topic ... we can conclude several things. 1) Hazing happens. 2) Hazing isn't just a GLO problem. 3) The media, whether reputable or not, always reports more negative news than positive news, whether the subject is GLOs or anything else. And what is our positive news anyway? Usually, it's something like your GLO raised $300 for a charity. I bet that charity's average individual donation is at least that anyway. That's not news. If your GLO cancels its formal and donates the money toward helping a homeless teen go to college, then you can complain the press doesn't cover it. Just going about your day and being a decent organization is NOT newsworthy.

On second thought, I don't suppose shouting "shut up" looks that good either. My apologies.

Now back to your regularly scheduled feud.

Inaccurate, but I no longer wish to continue this. I'm comfortable talking about light subjects as well as serious issues; I am not ashamed of that.

Fuzziealum and others, there is no 'feud', nor was there. All I did was speak up against something. I no longer wish to argue whether or not X is a troll (people who intentionally post flamebait, by analogy with the fishing technique of trolling: metaphorically, these people are those dragging a conversational lure through the group, hoping for a response). Or as was said "I frequently post GLO news items... I throw them up against the wall, and see what sticks or attracts responses."

I have spoken up/voiced an opinion and have no regrets. As it happens the position taken by those who responded was in opposition to my own. That is democracy, and I no longer wish to indulge anyone.

This will be my last post on this thread; and most probably this forum.