letters worn by non-members
 

My chapter is having a problem and although I am not a phi mu I am generally asking random groups their opinion about this problem.

I go to a relatively small school with only about 3000 students in all and only 3 non-ethnic sororities on campus. We have been having a lot of problems with non-members wearing our letters. Mostly freshmen who want to pledge. Most of the time it is something simple like a key chain but these people have no idea what this means to us.

My question is....What can we do about this aside from telling the person outright?

Can we go to Greek-Council or to our Student Affairs chairman? Or should we go to our faculty sponsor? PLEASE HELP US!!!

Thanks a lot

I really don't think you can do anything without saying something to the person directly. I totally understand your frustration, but I really don't think you can do much. I know it makes ya'll angry, but I suppose you could see it as an honor that they want to be a part of your organization???

WHAAAAAAAAT!!!!

I'm sorry but that is just psycho!! I can't imagine someone just going down to the Greek store and buying a shirt to wear if they're not a member.

I would definitely explain to the person that unless they are a member, they shouldn't wear letters or use the keychains and such and explain the concept of rush to them.

Do you have a Greek store on campus, at the bookstore or elsewhere? If there are students working there, are they Greek? I would ask them to put up a sign that says Greek paraphernalia is only to be used by members of the orgs.

I think a lot of the girls buy things online (e-bay, etc.) because our greek store usually asks for some kind of proof. Everytime we have gone in there to buy things for rush or bid day they have asked us for an id card. (Usually the management has a list of our members somewhere in the store so the people working can ask for something simple like a driver's license.)

Which brings me to another question. Does it ever bother ya'all when you see pins and the such on ebay? I mean totes and t-shirts I understand but sometimes there are very secretive items on ebay. I know my boyfriend is PMA Sinfonia and their songbooks are very special to the group and I see those on there all the time. He doesn't even let me see some of the songs.
It's just another question that I thought would be interesting to hear opinions.

Sorry for the non- phi mu postings.....

S to you...
-MLK

Well if the Greek store is already taking all those precautions (and good for them by the way), I would definitely bring it up to the Student Life director. I mean, if someone not a member is in letters and gets busted buying drugs, for example, you guys could be in mucho trouble.

The ebay pins and such do bother me, but I think the situation you're describing is worse in a way. Most of the pins & ritual stuff on ebay is bought by collectors - obviously a guy buying a sorority pin isn't pretending to be a member - and they're not going to wear it while doing inappropriate things. The situation you're describing could really cause problems for people.

p.s. You might want to try posting this in Greek Life too. :D

that is so weird. we had a girl that swore she was a phi mu on my campus. she was friends with a lot of the girls in our chapter, but didn't get a bid. needless to say, she would wear pink shirts on our letter days. supposedly, one of the sisters gave her a set of letters to wear. we actually had a rush infraction brought up against us one year bc a member of another sorority overheard her talking about how great the chapter was, etc. to pnms during strict silence. luckily, this was quickly dropped!

your case seems different bc it sounds like this is much more widespread! when is your rush? do the women on your campus who wear letters know that you have to join a sorority to get to wear them? as far as things like pens and pencils or note pads, i don't think they are as big of a deal as walking around in someone else's non-screen printed letters.

Question
 

Okay. So my sorority is affiliating with Phi Mu. We're starting the process this summer. Do you guys think it's bad that all of our members are starting to buy Phi Mu stuff online? We haven't been installed yet... but we're all so excited and we KNOW we're going to be Phi Mu because we're being absorbed. Is this bad?? For example, one of my friends is getting a phi mu decal to put above her local one. Is that okay?? Just wondering opinions!

Fuzicrayon,
I don't see any problem with that. I'm glad your chapter is so excited about joining Phi Mu!

I think it's cool that the girls are already buying things online. If you already know what you are going to be it should be OK. Just like we allow the pledges to wear letters during new member periods but they must be screen printed. You don't get a tackle twill or an embroidered set until you are installed. Also about notepads and pens and stuff....My roommate is not a Tri-Sigma but if she is taking a phone message I wouldn't make her find another piece of paper without my letters. LOL...We just respect each other and know our boundaries.

We have decided to do a Greek Awareness Week a couple of weeks before Rush so that we can get some rules straight. There will be info booths and our school paper is gonna do some feature stuff about who can wear what and things like that. I have a feeling this will put an end to some of it. We are also going to have a sort of "Honor System" that says if you get caught wearing something that isn't yours you will have to do some service with that sorority or fraternity's philanthropy. (A small donation or the such.) The school is gonna vote on that idea to see how that goes over.

Wish us luck and thanks a lot.
-MLK

kissasinfonian...

those are some cool ideas! i think it is great that your whole campus is really getting involved with this!!

fuzi-
buy away!!!

KissASinfonian: Phi Mu Alpha is a little different because it's such a musically-oriented organization. Our songbooks aren't secret; although they include some songs we prefer not to sing in public. Kind of like how although a Phi Mu may drink, she probably prefers not to drink in public in her letters.

FuziCrayon: We're thrilled to have you. Wear your letters so we can come up and say hi!

For some reason we have never had those kinda problems on our campus. I am not sure but I think its pretty well known that letters are not to be worn by non-members...maybe something they mention at freshman orientation... i dont remember.


As for FuziCrayon :)
You are so adorable!! I am sooooo happy and excited for your chapter...if im not mistaken while you are being installed you are technically considered a "phi" we call our "new members or pledges" "Phi's" as a phi you can wear letters as long as they aren't stitch on's. Take a look at carnation collection on the Phi Mu website too. I just love how you and your chapter are so excited about being Phi Mu, it shows in how active you have become on GC!! Tell some more girls to post :D

moonstar~ i think that they (phis) can wear stitchons, if you mean blocks. our chapter has always premitted it because technically you can't tell a phi that she's not allowed to do something everyone else is uless it would mean breaking the law or going to ritual or something like that.

Hmmm I dunno here with all greeks on campus you usually get stiched on's or blocks when you are innitiated,
we dont stop them from wearing it, but its tradition that the big usually gives the little her first stiched on's at innitiation.

we do however make iron on versions of our block letters with colorful fabric, with cute designs etc, cut out to look excatly like the stitch on's just ironed on and then puffypainted all around to look really cute....this is the same with most org's on campus.

i didn't know it was different elsewhere...i learn something new everyday!!! :)

I am not a Phi Mu myself either, but I need to respond to your post. I am shocked that some girls who aren't in a sorority could get away with wearing an GLO's letter. It looks to me that they are either delusional or a bunch of wannabe's (Have they even heard of rushing and pledging?). Someone mentioned that a local Greek Store allows this to happen. Why can't the salesperson verify by contacting the pledge mother/mistress (or any sister in that manner) to confirm or deny the association? If she denies it, they can't buy the paraphernalia in question. Also get your local Greek Council and Greek Office involved if happens repeatedly. http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/naughty.gif :rolleyes:

I don't see how the local store could really verify it. What if they were sisters from out of town or something? They can't really maintain a list of every chapter in the nation.

Anyway, if the girls are hell-bent on getting letters, there are a million online stores to get them from.

While I agree the store might at least want to ask if purchasers are sisters, I think the real root of the problem is that PNMs are even considering doing this. It needs to be stamped out there - made clear that girls who do this will not be offered membership, for example.

Sorry to barge in on this post, but I agree with FuzzieAlum. I don't see how this store can verify whether or not a person is a member of a particular GLO. Just like FuzzieAlum said they could be members from other chapters, or what if it was a friend purchasing a shirt or item with letters on it for another person who was a member of that GLO?
I think the only way to deal with this situation is if you suspect someone is wearing you letters and is not a member confront them about it. Let them know how hurtful and disrespectful it is to you and you organization that someone is pretending to be a member.

Question
 

Okay, so there are LOTS of places to buy greek stuff. Is Greek Gear cheaper than Phi Mu's webpage store?? which one do you think is better quality/price?? I used to buy all my Delta stuff at Greek Gear.

Thanks :)

FuzzieAlum and Lady Pi Phi, you got me there! What I said were merely suggestions on how to deal with nonmembers wearing a GLO's letters. I guess I should have mentioned that visiting chapters could buy at that local store or on the internet (my bad!). However, no suggestion or idea is 100% perfect. If the nonmembers continue, by all means confront them and ask why are they doing this and tell them how it is disrespectful. They could be doing terrible things in the GLO's name/letters. I apologize if I was misunderstood in some way, shape or form and I hope this clarifies matters. :o

Don't worry, CatStar! I think your idea is a fine one up to a point - like the collegiate Greek store is already doing it by checking names. I just think the ultimate responsibility needs to come from the students, since they're the ones with an interest in keeping their letters in the right hands.

see about this....
 

If you have any type of Intro program for freshman as far as an orientation or RAs giving information then I would contact the person in charge of that. While they are being told how to register and get mail the person in chage can explain campus organizations and that althought the freshman mean it as a compliment to the group to wear the letters that they are for members only and they need to wait for rush!

....this is a side note to a part of this thread.....

and welcome to all the wonderful new ladies at Shorter College - Nu Chapter. We're thrilled to have you join us.


....as a point of reference for FuzziCrayon- Phi's and Members alike are allowed to wear Phi Mu letters - stitched on or screen printed. Some chapters have taken on the un-official policy of Phi's not wearing stitched on letters. This is a constant question at convention and leadership that gets answered the same way - we can not discourage them (Phi's) from wearing letters or disallow them from wearing letters (stitched or otherwise). As I continue to tell my chapter - why wouldn't you want all those wonderful new Phi's wearing letters?? I know that I'm from the old school - but the first thing we all did after accepting our bids was to buy up Phi Mu letters and accessories. We plastered the campus 'pink'.

Have a wonderful summer everyone and good luck with the upcoming Fall Recruitments!!

A few comments....

1) Congrats to the Nu chapter at Shorter -- we can tell that you are so excited to be a part of Phi Mu!

2) The store thing -- I would be some kinda mad if I went to purchase something that didn't have a legal restriction for age (ie, alchohol, cigs, porn...just kidding hahaha!) and someone asked me for ID. Hello? This guy/girl could be a serial killer who secretly records the names of his/her next victims!!

Seriously though - I have purchased lots of other greek merchandise in my life for friends who joined other orgs (including BEFORE I became greek) -- the only thing I don't buy for them is crests because they haven't been initiated. But I don't think it would be disrespectful of me to buy another orgs crest and give it to a person who I know has been initiated. Usually they just get a new member gift from me though.

3) The stitch-on letters thing -- gotta agree 110% with phimualumnc on this -- why in the WORLD would you NOT want to show off those great new members? And the best way is to put them in some sporty chapter letters (if you have them). I guess AXO is just very strict about its new member program -- you are a SISTER from the moment you accept your bid -- the only difference is you do not yet know ritual. We don't get girls in to treat them like crap for 8 weeks or so -- we get them in to introduce them to what we consider is the most wonderful sisterhood on the planet....so why would we want to treat them differently, including what they wear?

On bid day, our Alpha Angel (who is our "guide" until our bigs are assigned) loaned us her letters until we got ours made. Of course usually our bigs would give them to us on big/lil night.

Sorry...I just don't like the idea of telling people what they can and can't wear!

4) KissASinfonian said "We are also going to have a sort of "Honor System" that says if you get caught wearing something that isn't yours you will have to do some service with that sorority or fraternity's philanthropy." -- I don't get this at all. What in the world would you be "caught" wearing?? I guess I must be misunderstanding this or something. I mean, what do you do, walk around all day in Phi Mu letters until someone says "Hey - you're an Alpha Chi!" -- :confused:

NOW BACK TO THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED TOPIC.......

I believe the original question was what to do IF someone was not a member and was seen wearing letters or something. The first thing I would do would be to go introduce myself (ie, Hi I'm Sally, an AXO here at Acme University...what AXO chapter are you from?) If it wasn't our letters they were wearing, then I'd keep my mouth shut -- you don't know if they are a transfer member or an alum or whatever. That would be really embarrasing to go and say to someone if you had no way to "prove" that they weren't a member.

It's not that sorority ABC is wearing XYZ's letters. The problem is that people who aren't Greek AT ALL are walking around wearing letters. If someone does something illegal/immoral/generally foul while sporting the letters, the chapter has no way to punish them since they're not a member, but the chapter will most likely have their image soiled or get in trouble (I'm envisioning a televised fight at a bar with non-members in letters - can you imagine your HQ seeing that and trying to explain "they're not members, honest!"). The philanthropy idea sounds great. If these people want to wear letters, they should realize there is some meaning behind them - they're not Abercrombie shirts.

Also, at a 3000 student campus, believe me you know who is a member and who is not - it's not like a Penn State or IU where there are tons of transfers who might have been in a GLO at their previous schools.

Thanks, 33, on the clarification of that -- my brain just wasn't functioning on that train of thought! I still don't know what you could do about it though -- I mean seriously, some random person runs up to me and says "Oh, you are wearing XYZ shirt and you aren't one, you have to do something for a charity" -- I'd be like "uh, yeah right" -- I just don't see how you can enforce that. Its not a written law that people can't wear stuff...I mean, yeah, WE know its wrong and in bad taste, but how do you make another person adhere to that?

I got my grad degree at a small suitcase campus -- I wore my letters intentionally on the first day to get some recognition -- I even had class with some other greeks in letters, and no whispering or conspiring was going on. I finally had another sister come up and introduce herself to me very nicely and I told her where I was from. I had met some of the other members before I started school, but she wasn't there that day. But if she had coming running up to me screaming "TAKE MY LETTERS OFF" like Cinderella's wicked stepsister or something, there woulda been a HUGE discussion at chapter -- just goes to prove that you NEVER know where a sister or brother will turn up!