Cutting Legacies
 

Hi guys :) I have a question for you. It's actually very specific, but I think applies to a principle in general.

I know a freshman who was cut from a sorority where she was a double legacy (Mother, Grandmother & Aunt all were this--all maternal btw) and had 5 recs written for her (mother's and aunt's sorority sisters and alumni groups were DETERMINED for this girl to get into this sorority). Worse yet, the girl's mother was a member of the same CHAPTER (went to the same college) that cut her!

The school this girl rushed at did rush through 4 rounds--Intro night, Philanthropy, Song & Skit, & Pref Night. The girl kept "preffing" her mother/grandmother/aunt's sorority first [because she REALLY liked it, she said!] and was invited back to rounds 1, 2, and 3. She did not get an invite to Pref Night.

I know that we try not to cut legacies if possible, but that if we invite a legacy back to pref night, we have to offer them a bid. Obviously the girl wasn't invited back to Pref Night and didn't get a bid from them.

However what was so disheartening about the whole story is that the girl told her mother that she felt like she had been treated unfairly at that sorority in the first place. She really liked the girls she knew there and had a lot of friends that ended up going there, however she ended up only being able to go to about 5 minutes of round 2 (it lasted 35 minutes) because she had class until late in the day and rush started earlier. Apparently the Panhel at her school "arranged" her schedule (along with others in her predicament) but she still felt like her mother's sorority members "didn't want her there" even though she liked them.

I guess this story just pi$$es me off because it is a classic example of turning an entire family against the Greek system. The girl's mother, who was a big contributer to her sorority's nationals, has since almost entirely quit donating. Same thing for the girl's aunt. Their alumni chapters, which organized recs for the girl, are wondering what course of action to take (i.e. letter to Nationals? etc).

This chapter at this particular university (which is a top notch school, btw, very high in standings for academics) has been established for 50+ years here and is one of the "top 4" sororities they have.

I just don't understand what happenned.

-sorority belle

p.s. The girl met all the grade requirements, etc, I am told.

I read your post, and I see absolutely nothing that could be taken as "unfair" treatment.

*She was invited back several times. My sorority also has a rule that if you invite a legacy to pref, she must be at the top of your bid list (thus automatically giving her a bid). If they invited her several times, they obviously either liked her a lot or really wanted to try to give her the chance to live up to her billing. But in the end, when you pick what women to invite to pref, you are picking women that could be your sisters on bid night. Sometimes a potential new member may be super nice, etc. etc. but her personality just may not fit in with the chapter or fit their needs.

* She could only make it to 5 minutes of Round 2? So what? She was invited back to round 3, so it's not like she was cut because of that. How is this any evidence of the sorority not wanting her there? THEY INVITED HER BACK, AGAIN!

* I'm not sure how this is a "classic" example of turning a whole family against the greek system. It sounds more like a problem within the family. From what you say, it really sounds like this girl had no choice but to try her hardest to go to this house. Yes, she may have liked it there and she does have the legacy, but ANYONE who rushes, no matter how great you are and how many recs you have, needs to keep an open mind and consider other houses as well.
I think this is more a "classic" example of a rushee with blinders on only going for one house.

*They're not donating any money? That's petty of them, and once again, their own personal problem. There's NEVER a guarantee, in any organization at any campus of getting in a certain house. If they had been lied to or deceived somehow, yes they would have a right to be very upset. But they weren't.

* Their alumnae chapters? It's not the alumnae chapter's business. What goes on in membership selection and the reasons women got cut are ritual and private, even to other members.

*The house being one of the "top 4" on campus. That means many other girls wanted them. In many cases, houses have more legacies going through rush than they have bids to give. Someone has to get cut.

This sounds like a very ridiculous situation that the family should have seen coming.

What a predicament! If you release a legacy too early, there are hard feelings along the lines that the chapter didn't get to know her better. If you release a legacy right before Pref, there are reeeaaaallly hard feelings, more like shock. If it works out that the PNM is happy where she pledges, that at least is one positive out of a sticky situation.

My best friend from HS is a legacy to another GLO. She really felt more comfortable with the Kappas, but I think she would have considered the other group had they offered her a bid. When they released her after Skit, she was a little relieved that the decision to cut them had been taken from her. Her sister, however, was hot! Her sister didn't go to Ole Miss, so at least there was that.

Another friend of mine had a sister going through at Clemson (my friend did not go there). She was cut right before Pref. It really was a shock because she was everything GLOs are looking for--smart, pretty, loyal, active, etc. She pledged another group and is happy. She has a position of leadership, too. She liked this group also, but what if she had "cut her throat" and acted snobby at the other parties--she would have been released from everyone then! Everything worked out for the best, I guess.

My chapter was in this situation when I was in college. The sister of two very active, recent alums came through with a below average GPA. She had no activities to speak of. I won't go on, but you get the picture. We agonized over her, but in the end we released her, early enough to not give her false hopes. I don't know if it was the right thing to do or if there were irreparable hard feelings, but that's what happened.

I have to agree with kddani. In Kappa, if we invite a legacy to pref, we have to offer her a bid. Unfortunately, there have been cases where the number of legacies rushing a chapter has been LARGER than quota. So, cutting legacies must occur. Often it is nothing personal - but really when it comes to pref, and hence bids, the chapter must think of its own well being and sustainment. Is it fair to the chapter that they must cut an excellent non-legacy just because a so-so (not saying your friend was so-so at all!!!) legacy feel she MUST be offered a bid?

Unfortunately, unless you are present during voting.. you never know what happened.

I will not bother asking what house.. but I will ask the school.

Different chapters... different schools have different policies. For example, my chapter only dropped a legacy one time, while I was an active. There were several issues, grades among them. Her mother sent a letter with her RIF explaining that her daughter's grades were not up-to-par, etc. We called and spoke with her, during rush and let her know that she would be invited back to round two, due to fraternity rules, but not round three. We hoped that she found a home, if she did not, she should work on grades. If we lost any seniors in December that we would invite her in the Spring. She found a home and everyone was happy! We could take two grade risks during formal recruitment. One year, we even dropped a girl everyone LOVED, because we had a legacy with grade problems.

We have a few chapters that have more legacies going through rush, then quota will allow us to pledge. So obivously some legs get dropped.

Like i said before, unless you are present during voting.. you never know what happened.

I hope the chapter at least gave the mother and grandmother courtesy calls before they dropped your friend. And I also hope she found her home elsewhere.

Well I just wanted to see what your experiences in this category have been.

It is common practice around here at least (Deep South) for alumni chapters to pretty much "organize" the recs for a legacy. Down here it is "big business" for girls to follow their mothers/grandmothers/sisters/whatever into a sorority, and the Alumni Chapters felt they had been given a slap in the face when they did not get any letter/phone call from the Recruitment Chair at this sorority (apparently this is standard procedure...I don't know the workings of contacting recs or whatever, I'm just a member whose never held a Recruitment Higher-Up Position) telling them that they had cut their PNM.

The girl's mother said she had "given up on her college chapter" because of this incident and some other incidents (just general behavior of their girls or something, I am not really sure) and had decided to quit donating as much.

I guess I don't know how they DO go about it, but how does your chapter cut a legacy? Do they call their legacy-person (I forgot the name--you know, the mom/grandmother/sister/aunt/etc) and tell them? Send a note?

-sorority belle

There's no way she would have been dropped just for missing part of a party. There could be two things going on:

1) The chapter had more legacies than places. That does happen at some schools. Obviously, they can't all get bids.

2) There's some *real* reason the chapter cut her. I don't know what org we're talking about, but most nationals do not like it when you cut a legacy, especially someone with that much family history and a record of giving. Generally, they make the chapter justify it, and it can't be, "She just didn't fit." For example, AXD policy states, "A legacy may be released during recruitment only with the permission of the chapter's Area Facilitator."

Furthermore, many sorority's rules forbid cutting a legacy until after a certain party. Whether that's "stringing along" or not is moot, because her very involved relatives would have known that policy and would have realized being invited to second or third party many not mean they want her, and they should tell her that. (That rule may be waived in case of bad grades, I'm not sure.)

Actually this is the thing that got this girl's mom so worked up!

Apparently she was the Recruitment Chair for her chapter in college and she knew how it was supposed to work. However when she heard nothing and called her daughter after pref night, it became a big mess.

I know my sorority does it too.

Perhaps there has been a policy change since she had been there? I know some sororities have rules AGAINST telling family members anything about their legacies during recruitment.

Perhaps the alumnae chapter should be upset that they didn't receive a call ( if that is standard procedure, or part of the legacy polidy like I know it is in Phi Sig) but I really don't think that they can be devastated that this girl didn't get a bid. I don't know of ANY sorority that says a legacy HAS to receive a bid (as has been stated before some schools have more legacies than quota... so it's just not practical) It seems to me that the chapter more than likely followed their org's policy regarding leagcy, I know Phi Sig policy is if that legacies get invited to all invitational rounds before pref. So if this chapter's policy is anything like ours, the chapter followed the rules.

I have very mixed emotions about this topic. I was cut as a legacy, actually very early on. My sister was president of the chapter that I rushed, and received rec forms from her as well as others that I knew. This is also a case where people were supposed to be informed that I was cut and they weren't. It later got back to my sister that I was cut because of people that didn't like her didn't want me to be a part of the chapter. I was quite upset at first but then realized that if that was the way the people were going to act then I didn't want to be a part of it. And I'm glad I joined AGD, because it definately was the place for me!

I was cut from the sorority I was a legacy to. It happens. I didn't expect to get a bid from that group anyway, because my sisters (whose chapter was at another school) warned me that I might not fit in very well in the chapter at my university, which I didn't, and also, I was a sophomore. Sophomores can sometimes have it tough with the bigger chapters. I'm really sorry this girl was cut like that--I always heard that the chapter was supposed to inform the family if they were going to cut a legacy, but maybe that's not the case with all sororities. It really sucks for her, but nothing is guaranteed, and like others said, I hope she found a home at a different house.

you know, I love my organization, but I have been on the negative receiving end of our "legacy" policy and the positive. Suffice it to say that there was someone we **REALLY** didn't want who came through recruitment. We got to know her, we even talked about stuff that would give us rush infractions so she would go to another house, finally we tried to drop her but we weren't allowed.

From what I've been hearing, my chapter will be getting a legacy next year. All four of this girls sisters are alum from our chapter. I hope that they like her.

I have three younger sisters and as much as I would love them to be in DPhiE, I would rather that they go somewhere they want that wants them equally as much.

One of my best friends was not only a triple-threat legacy to the chapter where she was rushing (mother, aunt, grandmother), but her grandmother was a Founder. She got cut prior to Pref. Now, she was totally relieved, because she didn't really like the chapter that much, but wanted to please her family and she had loved ADPi from Day One. Her grandmother was completely hysterical, however!

Our policy is to give all legacies the courtesy of at least 2 rounds, and if she is to be cut, a personal telephone call and a follow up letter is to be sent to the mother or whomever. Frankly, I feel that's only common courtesy - no matter how many legacies are involved in rush. I was Rec Chair, and I know that I also had to write a thank you and a "yes, she pledged" or "I'm sorry to inform you" letter to EVERYONE who took the time to send in a rec.

I haven't been at Bid Matching in a couple years, but legacies invited back to Pref were to appear in alphabetical order at the top of our bid sheets - again, no matter how many.

The only thing that I see that was done incorrectly in the opening scenario was the lack of a phone call to the pnm's mother. I would hope that more actives see this, and realize the importance of one simple telephone call!

honeychile

the only thing i have to add to what honeychile said is that this particular sorority may not have a policy that allows them to contact the mother/whoever. I don't really know KDs policy as to this very well b/c here in a northern, urban school we don't get many legacies in rush, but i'm positive that we don't have to call anyone but the Collegiate Province President to explalin and/or get permission.

What if there are more legacies than quota??? Does that mean the end of the alphabet isn't on the first list?

To clarify, we called our Province President, who then calls EO. The personal phone call is made by either the Province President or EO, depending on the situation (like, is it just before Pref, or is the mother an Executive Officer, or a 5-generation legacy - these would all get the EO call. And I've seen each of these happen!!) Oh, spare me the drama of a ditzy 5-generation legacy who's aunt is an Executive Officer any day of the week!!! I would not wish that on ANY chapter!!

DeltaBetaBaby, I'm not positive about your scenario. From what I was told, that would be the case, but I can't see that happening in the Deep South. Seriously, how could it be? Maybe legacies get an extra point towards ranking? I'll defer to someone who's done Bid Matching in the Deep South on this question!

honeychile

It does happen--not at my school, but it does. It is my understanding that on the bid list, the legacies themselves are ranked, just placed above other PNMs. So PNM Legacy Suzy might be #1, and PNM Legacy Maryanne might be #27. If quota is 30, they'd both still be on the bid list, but PNM Legacy Fifi might be ranked #33 and not get a bid. Of course, I guess it depends on the specific voting system each sorority uses.

I just wanted to use the name Fifi... hehe

Nothing here looks "unfair" to me... if she didn't fit with that chapter, she didn't fit. I hope she found a home.

We have a similar legacy policy - any legacy invited to pref goes automatically on the first bid list. If there are more legacies than quota, the legacies are ranked relative to each other, so they're all on either the first list or the top of the second list. Legacies are followed by national recs (anyone for whom a national officer has written a recommendation), then by other PNMs.

We cannot release a legacy going into second round, but we can release her at any other point. If a legacy is released, there has to be a d@mn good reason! I don't think we're required to make a courtesy call to her mother (or whoever) but I know my chapter would do so.

It's a shame, though, when you have to place great women on the second bid list, and potentially lose them to another sorority or see them not match at all, simply because quota was 20 and 25 legacies came to pref.

I just re-read my post, and realized that I wasn't very clear about the part that our Fifi-lover quoted! I surely see where there could be more legacies than quota, but what a nightmare that would be! I was trying to defer to someone who would know how to handle that situation, and it looks as though breathesgelatin answered! Thank you!

honeychile

Honeychile, I hope you had a form letter lol.

LOL indeed! We actually had cards printed up, and then the Rec Chair just had to add a few personal words of her own. Except, of course, those 5-generation EO officer's daughter's recs - they got the kid glove treatment!

Has anyone else ever been Rec Chairman?

honeychile

in fraternities, at least in my chapter, we usually give legacies a legit shot. turning one away is difficult but it depends on circumstances. our general rule is, unless a kid really sucks, if he is a chapter legacy and his dad/grandfather/brother are still connected to the chapter, he is pretty much in. if he is a beta legacy, but not a chapter legacy, we have a little more leeway to decide if we really want him. but again, those kids pretty much have "bids to lose". maybe its just respect for tradition or whatever

Yes, but you don't have a quota!

My one and only legacy experience goes like how you all are saying--if she was invited to Pref, she automatically is on the first bid list. If you don't want her to be your sister, don't invite her to Pref. Simple as that. WE DO NOT INVITE WOMEN TO PREF THAT WE DO NOT PLAN ON GIVING A BID TO. Our legacy didn't want to be in a house at all, a we sent a nice letter to her grandmother.

This year, we had a triple-threat legacy...to the other sorority. She came to us! :D

Okay. Two thoughts:

1) Does it not seem to anyone else like Southern Belle has it out for whichever sorority the story is about? Their girls stink, the mother isn't loyal, the current collegiate members cut the legacy out of sheer meanness, etc., etc., etc.

2) NO ONE CONSIDERED THE FACT THAT THE LEGACY MAY NOT WANT TO BE THERE. And aside from that -- who knows what the collegiate chapter knows the the mother, grandmother, etc., don't? We had a girl come through who had drug problems -- what were we supposed to do? Call her mom and be like, "Hey, your daughter's cool, but the whole coke thing isn't really gonna work for us....." You get the picture.

Anyway, we ALL know how awfully agonizing selections can be. In my sorority I know we CAREFULLY go over each potential member, considering all aspects of her personality, potential as a sister, academic record, etc. I'm confidant that this sorority -- esp. if they're one of the "Big 4", and I'm assuming Panhelenic -- works the same way.

Our latest Crescent actually had a big article on just this topic. Our policy is to leave it up to the PNM to contact her family if she is not invited back to a round of parties "to protect the woman's privacy". It even says it o the bottom of the legacy form members fill out.

In answer to the other question just asked, I'm the only person in my family (male or female) who is Greek.

Re: Cutting Legacies
 

Just an illustration of why Kappa does not send letters to alumnae about their cut legacies. I realize that in this senario, it sounds like she told her family herself, but supose for a second her family got a call about it, and she had planned to keep it secret.
What may not have been said in this situation:
-The girl really didn't care about this house. She kept on putting them first, or saying she put them first, but really was hoping she wouldn't get them. She's happy at her new house, but her family is driving her crazy with their strong reaction.
- The girl really, really wanted this house. She was hurt, but by getting a chance to lick her wounds, she'd calm down and grow to love her new house. She really would just have preferred her relatives forget about it. However, now she's sure the group that cut her knows about the fit her family is throwing. She worries that they think she put her family up to it. She's ashamed to face any girls from that house, and really hates it, because her math class is full of them.
I know if my family were going to throw a fit like that, I'd keep quiet about being cut for my own sake. Therefore, I support and entirely agree with privacy for the legacy going through recruitment being considered over courtesy for the member.

I also thought that it might potentially be a scenario where she cut them and lied about it. She knew her family would have a cow that she cut them, so she decided to get them off her back and let them think she was cut. Hence, no cut= no legacy letter.

I personally think the moral of this story is that families should lay off te pressure to go to one house. It really is her decision; she has to be able to live with both the group she chooses and the house that supposedly cut her.

right on!
 

Sherbertlemons, you are right on. This is exactly why it is Kappa's policy to keep the outcome of any PNM's Recruitment process private.

When I was a collegiate, my chapter released a PNM who was a 5-time Kappa legacy--Grandmother, Mother, 2 Aunts, and a Sister--one of whom was a past National President, and 2 of whom had been both Regional and Province officers. Long story short, it didn't work out for this girl, and my chapter released her in the round before Preference Night.

We did not call her family. We did, however, call our Province and Regional officers to let them know what had happened, as we were certain there would be backlash.

Then we waited.

The young woman, who probably had a *very* hard phone call to make on the day of Bid Day, called her family and told them that she was proud to be a new member of Delta Gamma. Her family (though still a little sore), congratulated her and sent her a big bunch of cream roses.

Now they give as much money to DG as they give to KKG.

This family handled it right, and I continue to be impressed by them years later.

That's not to say that we still didn't hear about it from HQ....but in the end it all worked out.

Something to keep in mind, ladies.....for when we have daughters ourselves!

When you have a daughter going through recruitment at a school where you have a chapter, you may be more able to understand the alum's anguish over having her daughter not chosen to be a part of her sorority. While her actions were rash, she IS entitled to respond. I'd like to know why she was cut.

as fire1977 said earlier, D Phi E has a strict legacy policy which states that you may not cut a legacy without legitimate reason (bad dress, nerdy, bad shoes are not legit). And I think I like our policy as it is. Alumnae are an important part of sorority life, and deserve an explanation from someone as to why their daughter was cut...especially a large donor.

Membership selection is a shared responsibility of all members--both active and alumna. Of course an alumna whose daughter has been released has the right to respond--but she doesn't have the right to ruin her daughter's potential happiness in pledging another sorority.

It's a good thing that you are happy with DPhiE policy, as I am happy with Kappa's policy on legacies and on the respective roles of actives and alumnae.

According to KKG Fraternity Policies, "Active members have the responsibility for selecting members of their choice; alumna members have the privilege of providing reference information on qualified young women."

This is one reason why it's great that each of the 26 members of NPC get to set their own rules with regard to membership and legacies...because I would not want Kappa actives to be "forced" to take legacies and to go to the lengths that one poster described as "purposely incurring recruitment infractions to get the girl to drop."

I am proud that Kappa believes in the integrity and character of its actives enough to trust that they can determine who is best suited to share the next 4 years with them....and that chapter advisers can help guide them to see what has helped Kappa to endure for the last 133 years...and what will help it endure for the next century (at least!).

And when/if I do have a daughter who goes through recruitment, I will remember to keep my mouth shut about what she is/is not entitled to from Kappa, and I will (though it may kill me) be fair enough to HER to make sure she knows that I will be equally happy no matter what sorority she pledges--or whether she pledges no sorority at all.

And may the Lord strike me down if I reverse myself, should Kappa ever release a daughter of mine, I will never make such an a$$ of myself as to demand an explanation about what happened
in the process of recruitment. I will trust my daughter and my SISTERS enough to know that in the end, it wasn't meant to be.

this is almost disturbing but weird too

we had a girl come through *my little*. she was a legacy of another sorority on campus(her mom, sister, and 3 cousins). she purposely didn't say anything but she let her mom and another alum write her a rec for the sorority. she wanted to see for herself.
well, she went to recruitment events for both of our groups. she decided that she didnt like them because they had changed from what her mom told them. however, she had to break it to her mom. she made up the excuse that the sorority was taking too long to give her a bid. even though, she received both of ours at the same time. she just didn't like the girls' behavior.
her mom called and ripped the sorority for 'slowing around' and having her daughter join another sorority. her sister ripped the sorority and wrote their advisor.

months have passed. her mom is like our long lost sister. it took a while for her to accept my little's decision. however, once she found out what her sorority had evolved into, she was grateful that her daughter chose us. however, she is torn once again because my little's baby sister is going through rush this fall. and she wants someone to join her sorority. but all of this sister's friends are members of a totally different sorority. and she plans on being in with them. oh, well.

While helping with recruitment at USC, I've seen PNMs purposely omit legacy or "connection" info from their applications. I guess they thought they would have a fairer recruitment if there were no affiliations listed. This would work for the other groups not involved, but we knew one particular PNM was a Kappa legacy. I truly can't remember what happened, but I guess everything worked out for the best.

Kappa Kappa Gamma loves her legacies as much as any other GLO--what a thrill it is to know that bond is shared with a family member--but I agree with imsohappythatiama. It's a touchy situation from both ends. The legacy wants to be wanted for herself, not her connection. The alums want their legacies to be given careful consideration no matter the outcome. God knew what he was doing when he gave me two boys--I don't think I could handle the anticipation of watching my daughter rush!

Wouldn't you rather have an enthusiastic member than a lukewarm legacy? If the legacy would be truly happier as a member of another GLO, she should not be "forced" to pledge for anyone else; however, some PNMs go into recruitment adamantly refusing to pledge where they are legacies. That being said, if the choice is between a GLO where you are a legacy and another GLO (all things being equal), why not keep the legacy alive?

I rarely post my 2 cents worth but....... as a mom who received that phone call saying that my daughter was being released from my sorority, I must say that it is a devastating experience. My daughter joined another group during spring rush that year and is thrilled with her choice but it is a tough pill to swallow at the time. Most parents will lighten up if their child is happy - that's all we really want anyway. I would love to share my sorority life with my daughter but she has to be able to do whatever she wants as well. I have two more daughters and I don't know how I'll live through two more recruitments! As for the phone call, I was told that my daughter was being released. Of course, my first response was to say "Why?????" Obviously, they can't really answer that question except to say that the girls just didn't feel that she was a "fit". That means nothing to a mom who believes that her daughter is perfect and would fit in anywhere (as I'm sure most mom's believe!) For that reason, the phone call is kind of a waste. However, it allowed me to warn my daughter before she picked up her Pref invites the next day and didn't see my sorority there. I think that we have to be patient with girls AND their moms. It takes a while to get over this but it will eventually happen. My daughter attends my university and she now has a new sister whose mom was my sorority sister! We're just starting over with a new generation.

anothermom--

Your story breaks my heart, but I'm so glad she ended up with a sorority that she is happy with.

imsohappy, I in no way was attacking the Kappa legacy policy. We're all different organizations, and thus, have different policies. I like that we notify mothers/grandmothers if their legacy is going to get cut and make active members provide the HQs with a valid reason. Also, we are fully trusting in our active members choosing their new members, but most sororities are required to give a legacy at least a second look. To say our policy says that we aren't is ludicrous.

I think that unless you've had to be the mother that hears her daughter will be cut or the person who has had to call that mother, this is a difficult situation to sympathize with.

shadokat, I see your point.

One of the reasons I like Kappa's policy so much is that it hasn't always been that way....as a Recruitment Adviser I used to have to make those calls ALL THE TIME--to mothers, grandmothers, aunts, sisters--and each time, it broke my heart to have to do so (especially when I really liked the legacy in question, but the chapter decided otherwise).

I guess my point is that in my years of having to make those calls, I was always struck by the way in which different women handled the news.

I always expected a bit of sadness (tears were not uncommon), anger (I've had more than my share of expletives launched at me), and bitterness. I guess my issue has always been that so often I was treated...how shall I say without going into detail...un-sisterly. And I bet this happens in all of the 26 NPC sororities, too, as I have heard the same "war stories" from friends in other orgs. who are long-time Recruitment Advisors like myself.

While I always tried to afford the women on the other end of the line a great deal of latitude, I was always amazed at some of the "crazy" responses I got from women who just days before were sending me the kindest, warmest notes about their daughter and their own lifelong dedication to Kappa. Some women seem to think that chapters are "out to cut legacies"--when nothing could be further from the truth.

I stand by Kappa's decision to keep a PNM's recruitment outcome private (whether she is a legacy or not)...but I can see why other orgs would want to let a legacy's family in on the decision.

I guess my main caveat is this: if you're that mother or sister or aunt who receives a phone call--whether from a chapter or from your PNM--that tells you your girl didn't get your org, just try to be as civil as you can about it, even if you are (understandably) devastated. To the PNM who calls, you are setting the tone for how she will see the Greek world from now on. And to the sister/alumna who is calling, you are setting an example of how members of your sisterhood are supposed to treat each other.

When I was an active and a young alum, it never occurred to me--or, I think now, my sisters--to worry much about the effect of cutting legacies on the PNMs and their moms. They'd find another home, right? They'd get over it, right?

Then as I got older and friends' daughters rushed--and usually got cut by their legacy sororities since most went to UGa--I witnessed firsthand the devastation of moms and daughters. When that daughter you've shown your pin to, introduced your sisters to, sung sorority lullabies to...is rejected by your very own sorority, it has to feel like a knife thrust to the heart.

We can call it what we want, but it's rejection. We can dress it up with phrases like "she'll find a better sorority home" or "she just wasn't a good fit" but face it, it's rejection.

Two of my daughters have pledged 2 different sororities, seven more will rush someday. If any are ever cut by Pi Phi, I know that even if they find another sorority home--even if I hear that there were far more legacies than places for PNMs---it will be a low and horrible blow.

Very often, your feelings in your twenties are vastly different from your feelings after forty.

I agree with Carnation; having your children hurt is 1,000,000 times worse than you, yourself, being hurt.

My younger sister went to Cornell, which doesn't have an active DZ chapter. It wasn't until after she'd graduated that she finally told me that she'd been *relieved* that there was no DZ chapter there because she would have felt a lot of pressure to go there since I had been "Miss DZ Cheerleader" when I was in college. (she exaggerated!)

As for me, I'm just happy she found a home she loved just as I'll be happy for my daughters no matter where they end up!

Yeah, it's probably ole Blue Violet again--making up a story about some nonexistent group.:rolleyes: