help! stay in local or go to national
 

Ok so...I've been apart of a local sorority for 2 years now and when I was a new memeber it was a goal of the older girls to one day affiliate with a National Sorority. Now that we have actually somewhat started that process, we are associate members of panhellenic, our younger girls dont want to go through with it. They have only been active for a semester or 2 and to me that havent seen the hardships that go along with being local.
In the meantime i have become really god friends with girls form one of the national sororities on our campus and the thought has crossed my mind to drop my local and become apart of this national. Now maybe its just a phase but at the same time its driving me crazy. I love my girls and all but i feel that its not what i am anymore. Maybe i'm just in my own world right now but i really dont know what to do.

1. Give it time! Don't make a snap decision.

2. What is the likelihood that your sorority will go through with the nationalization? Do the current nationals support you in this? Or is it just partly your own members that are balking at the idea? Promote nationalization to the younger members. Explain why you want what you've worked so hard for!

3. What would be the time frame for nationalization? If you want to participate in a national group before you graduate, you have to keep that in mind.

This a tough decision... :( Best of luck!

On dropping your personal affilation with the local and going to a national... if you were a person that approched my fraternity and were a member of a local, we would not bid you.

Why? It's simply because you broke your life-long pledge of sisterhood to another group. You back-stabbed your sisters to join us, that goes to show how loyal and trustworthy you are.


There is one case we have agreed on which we would give a bid to someone who was in a local. A local which we are very close to, told us that in the situation which we did not have enough members to chapterize some of their members would become Phi Kaps... where upon they'd be members of TWO groups... and have MANY MANY brothers. This came from their presidents mouth, and needless to say we were honored by how much they wanted us on campus. But your situation is totally different.

As for your sorority going national:

There is a local fraternity XYZ on our campus that went national in 1957, the affiliation was structured very wisely.

They would register under their LOCAL letters as a campus organization yearly. They were already a member of the IFC through their LOCAL letters and thus would not lose their membership if they chose to drop the affiliation. They kept their LOCAL letters close and still wore them.

This was a safety net. If one day they wanted to drop the national or the if the national chose to yank their charter they could just pick up their local XYZ letters again. They would still be in IFC, and they would still be considered a campus organization even without the national! Seven years later, they dropped the affiliation with the national fraterntity and went back to their local letters with little resistance from anyone.

Normally a fraternity would have to disband if they lost their charter or disaffiliated. But, because they were smart about it they didnt and still exist on campus today, almost 50 years later.

If you want to go national, structure it so that you can drop the affiliation whenever your group pleases.

I wouldn't take such a strong view. It was your local's group to reform as a national organziation. If that's what you were all working towards then I think it diminishes the importance that some would place on the local group. It was not meant to be permenant if that's the case.

If ya'll seek to become national it's a huge, long process so be ready for that.

I am not sure what thread it is but "carnation" started it.

She is a Prof. at ABC College, in Ga. They had nothing but locals who had been there for some time. Beleive it or not, the School decided it would like to have Nationals instead. One of the first I would say in current history.

Well, first thought was that the locals would fight it, but in finding out what the Nationals could offer, according to carnation, they are all for it and getting very excited on campus in ghe Greek world and even the independents!

For me being a member of an International, this is very exciting.

This is in no way putting down Locals, as I started a local and it was a tuff road to hoe!

What ever the decesion, the best of luck.:)

Just to clarify-- this happened at Valparaiso only 5 years ago, during the 1997-1998 school year. 8 locals went national, with their original founding dates ranging from circa 1917-1919 (four orgs) to circa 1961. Seven are still functioning; the smallest was not able to make the transition and folded around 2000.

In the case of the original poster of this thread, there are nationals AND locals at her campus currently. It's not so much whether the local should go national or not ... it's IF the local doesn't, whether the poster should drop her local org and try to become a member of the national. (and who knows if she could do both at once, or if the national would take her in the first place...)

Personally, I don't know how campuses with NPC orgs and locals make it work. Those who do have my respect! I'd think it would be hard...

To "quit" a local and disown your sisters, then join a national chapter on campus is to break a life long oath you made to them. It's dishonorable to even consider the option.

I have to agree with archangel.

It would be one thing if you had just started pledging and dropped...or if you transferred to another school. But you are going to be on the same campus and have to see those people you were sisters with for two years, no longer being your sisters. Plus there will likely be people if you would join the NPC sorority who would be distrustful of you - after all, you dumped your local, what's to prevent you from dumping them?

All sororities grow and change, especially in their first years. If you look at the histories of the NPC's, there was often LOTS of debate on going national, expanding, changing the focus etc. I'm sure there are some ASA's who weren't happy we went NPC.

It is getting near the end of the year and you might just be feeling burnt out and not close enough to the younger girls yet....give it some time. If it's becoming an issue of half the sorority wants to stay local and half wants to go national, you all need to sit down and figure it out together.

i probably am burnt out...considering I hold 2 positions. Social chair and assistant pan-hell delegate. Thats beacuse we felt that our younger girls werent well educated on the issue and plus none of them wanted to do it.
Then someone tell me this, how do you try to tell people and actually get them to listen to you about the opportunity we have to become a national sorority. how do you get someone to listen to all the advantages. Thats our biggest problem right now. Some girls, one in particular wont even listen. Which leads to the closed minds.
Not to mention i just went to the western regional greek conferance and saw how amazing it was...for national orgs.
I know you all feel like i'm breaking an oath, and leaving my sisters but at the same time how can it work when we dont believe in the same things anymore?
I guess my biggest issue is the fact that some girls are very closed minded and they arent seeing this great opportunity that is right infront of us waiting for the doors to open

rayray I pmed you.

Rayray, everybody here who is telling you that you would be disloyal to leave your local doesn't know what oath you took and what it meant to you. YOU do.

I believe in the sanctity of wedding vows, but if your husband starts sleeping with other women, you should divorce his butt and marry somebody else. I don't think that makes you disloyal or uncommitted to your second husband.

I say Rayray took an oath when she joined a sisterhood. If that sisterhood no longer exists, because the organization has betrayed the principles she joined in order to support, well, what's left for her to be loyal to? She needs to make the decision that's right for her. If the NPC chapter she's looking at decides to offer her a bid, then that's an indication that they have faith in her commitment to their organization. If they show that faith, I'm certainly not going to question their judgment.

Take some time to think about it and go where your heart leads you, Rayray. Good luck!

Ivy

I agree that people shouldn't be so quick to judge someone because they want to leave one group and join another. backstabbing?? I just think that language is a little harsh for a situation in which we only know the surface details. I hope that everything works out for you and that you make the best choice for you. Just make sure to think it through... the grass isn't always greener on the other side;)

Depending on your local Panhellenic rules, you may not be able to switch even if you want to. Some local Panhellenic rules forbid member groups to give bids to members of the other groups - NPC forbids this at the national level, and this clause is usually designed to give locals the same protection. So give the constitution and bylaws a thorough read first!

Thanks for all your input, I will be talking to some of the girls form the national org later this week to get a feel of what they think. I have also talked to one of the other girls in my orgaization and suprisingly she feels the same way, which makes my decision even harder because she know is considering the same thing.
I know not all of you agree with my thoughts but i assure you all that i'm not just jumping to to make a quick decsion. Time and thought are fully apart of this situation. I will keep people informed, thanks again for taking the time to read my post and help me decide what is best for me and the girls in my local organization.

I've been watching this thread for a little while, and I just want to wish you luck. Let us know what you decide! :)

R.E.D,

I am sure taht you will make the right decision for you and your other members who are undecided.

I thought it was in poor taste from some GCers that you were betraying your pledge. You are not bound to a local, and if the situation has become unberable, you must come to a decision. If your local does not want to associate with a Natonal, that is thier right.

If they were realistic and looked at why the Local was started, there should be no problem. They broke the oath and the beleif, not you!

Good Luck, let us know what is going on!:)

My view of this situation is that:

In the instance a group as a whole decides to change direction and you disagree with that change and quit, your quiting is not justified (_IF_ thats the only reason). SACRIFICE is what makes greek organizations work. The will of the chapter comes before the will of any individual.



Thats my take on it and I'll keep it at that.

I'll agree with Archangel to a point. But if the change is one that fundamentally changes the nature of the group or that undermines the basis upon which you pledged to begin with (as in making the decision to pledge because of assurances that the local would be actively seeking national affiliation) to the point that the group really is no longer the same organization you pledged, then I think you haven't left the group. The group has left you.

Of course, none of us (including Archangel) knows anything about the pledge that rayray took when she joined the local in question. Only rayray does, so only she is in a position to decide whether quitting the local and pledging an NPC group would compromise or violate the pledge she made to the local, or whether such action would be justified.

Exactly.

Saying you won't pledge somebody who left another organization under ANY circumstances is ridiculous. Sometimes we make vows that we mean at the time, but people change. And if this change was something as large as wanting to pursue national affiliation vs. giving up on it, and rayray pledged this group in part because she wanted to be in a national group and this group "promised" that to her -- they broke their promise.

I agree with you sugar and spice.

If a group promised something to someone, and they joined on the basis of that promise, I believe that promise should be fulfilled. However, In this case, we don't know if a promise to go national was made to her, or if it was even a condition in her decision to join.

if that's the case, i would not be a phi sig right now
our sorority was a local but they saw that being national held more opportunities
and phi sigma sigma was the only sorority that allowed for all of their alumnae to consider themselves phi sigma sigma sisters as well
it introduced the members of theta chi omega to a world that they weren't apart of. . .because due to monetary circumstances, they couldn't afford a big college and the costs that come along with being in a big college sorority. . .

be reasonable. . .there's nothing wrong with a local going national


hypothetical: that's like saying you would disown your sister because she divorced her husband and married another guy
she took a vow to the first husband. . .and that vow is lifelong. . .

White_Chocolate, I think you totally missunderstood me. I am not claiming that a local taking on a national affiliation is wrong in any way or form.

I am stating my opinion that a fully initiated member of a local organization who decides to "quit" then join another organization, simply because the group decided to make a change they didn't like, is unjustified in doing so. Dual membership (actively participating in two organizations) would be different in my eyes. Again, this is my opinion.

>>>I am stating my opinion that a fully initiated member of a local organization who decides to "quit" then join another organization, simply because the group decided to make a change they didn't like<<<

Someone else said it, but I don't think that what is stated above is RayRay's situation. What I read in her post leads me to believe that when she first joined her present group there were plans in the works for her group to join a national organization. I think this goes a little beyond the group making a decision she doesn't like. She is not getting what she signed up for.

Reading her posts leaves me at that same conclusion. It is my opinion, that if the group going national was a deciding factor in her joining and they promised her that they would, she'd be justified in quitting. I'd agree with you 100%, they broke a promise to her.

If this didn't happen, then It's my opinion that quitting is unjustified and that she was quitting based on the fact the group made a decision she didn't like.

The bottom line is however, that this is not by any means our decision to make. The decision is rayray's and I wish her best of luck in making that decision, because it is a damn hard one to make.

see, this is what i thought too

Ok just a little background 411
My sorority was founded 3 years ago, i know we are still young but we have worked our butts off to get where we are.
3 out of the 8 founders were actually from a national organization on campus. Due to some problems( if you really want the details i'll give them to you on PM...and it wasnt hazing..) They disaffiliated with the organization and created my sorority with the intention of not having any of the problems that they had in the previous sorority as well as the goal to one day become affiliated with a national sorority. They knew that when and if this day did come they would not be able to initiate but getting us to that point and creating something from scratch and have the great honor and accomplishment was what they dreamnt for. Hope this helps a little

rayray, I understand the complications of starting a greek organization, and I really feel for you.

I too had to suffer through these complications, as I am a founder of my group. We had 3 presidents resign and quit, we also expelled one president and an advisor during the five year period we were an interest group.

Prior to colonization, our president and vice-president debased the entire fraternity, said we didn't have what it took, that we would never chapterize... and quit. They walked out the door...

Brothers were disheartened, and the question of whether or not we even wanted to be a fraternity anymore was brought up on the table..... the alumni brought up a question to us that I bring to you now:

Your group has worked too long and too hard to stop now, how can you let anyone stop you from reaching the goal?

I don't know if your sorority is an "interest group" or not, or if you do pledging, or not, if you don't this might be the problem but I know its impossible to impliment such a program at this stage. younger sisters are like children and think they know everything...
they need every thing explained 55 million times and its extremely fustrating.

Perhaps a session in which the entire history of the sorority was recited to the entire group would instill some understanding in the younger sisters as to why they should uphold the desires of the founders. We did this, and it seemed to help the younger brothers understand.

The opinion that it is no longer the "founders' sorority" any more, and it is now their sorority may come up. You might have to remind them that it is not just theirs, and that all greek organizations have alumni boards, and the alumni can dissolve the chapter if they so choose.

It's one thing if the undergraduate group decides to change things, it's another if there are undergraduate members that have chosen to spit on the mission and goals set by their founders.

If this situation is really out of control and you want the best advice there is you might want to email David Stolman, he's saved entire greek systems and travels the country giving seminars. He'll talk to you over email, but he travels A LOT, so don't expect a super quick response. It's Stollman@campuspeak.com

Ray Ray - I think that there is some internal business that your sorority must do. Primarily, debate and vote whether or not to go national. You pledged your sorority with the intention of going national as that was one of the goals from its founding. I think that your sorority ought to clarify its goals soon so that you and your sisters know where the sorority stands. Do you have a mission statement? If not the sorority needs to write one.

I think that if the majority of the sisters decide to go national, then you are set. You can't allow a few sisters to dominate the debate. If the majority of sisters do not want to go national then you have that answer and bigger questions. Should you continue with this sorority or persue membership in another established NPC sorority on campus? What are the local panhellenic rules regarding this? Are you allowed to drop your sorority and rush?

I don't think anyone has been disloyal or a backstabber. I think that you are permitted to see what your options are. You want to join a national sorority. That's great! I think that your sorority should decide what it wants to do as a whole. If the majority wants to do national, that is your answer.