Best academic house on campus...is this good???
 

I am no longer an undergraduate at my school, but I still live in the area, and I am a chapter advisor. We have formal rush Spring Quarter, which differs from most colleges/ universities. I went back today because it is the first day of Rush, and I received a shock. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad thing, and I am very proud of my chapter...but we have the highest G.P.A. on campus! This is not a really good selling point. I mean, when I was there, we had fun, and we studied, but we had a mixture of guys who were serious about school, and guys who...well...were not. And they were a lot of fun. I just don't want us to be known as "nerd" fraternity. Am I wrong??? I mean, the kind of guys that the chapter is attracting this year does not bode well for the future in terms of mixers with sororities. Let's face it, the really popular sororities are not going to be too excited about partying with the computer science/electrical engineering majors. I trust them enough to make their own decisions about what brotherhood is about, and what type of man would be the best brother, but I am afraid some really cool guys might not rush because they don't want to be in a house where the average G.P.A. is over 3.4! What should I do???:confused:

Dude, do not rip computer science people!!!!!!!!!!!!
No seriously, to put people with high GPAs in the "Nerd" catergory is not a good idea. People with high GPAs are peole that want to succeed in life. You would be surprised what kind of folks get good grades.

Re: Best academic house on campus...is this good???
 

If they're hot, fun and/or sweet computer science majors, I don't think the girls will mind. :)

I think you're buying into the stereotype too much here, though. In my experience, engineering majors tend to have pretty low GPAs, since it's such a difficult major. Likewise, I know some pretty hot engineers (I may be biased here, since my boyfriend is one, but still . . .) and some very attractive guys with high GPAs. High GPA does not necessarily mean "nerdy" . . . I know that some of the most popular sororities and fraternities on our campus have the highest GPAs.

If you're not an undergrad anymore, how does it really affect you anyway?

I know that my chapter went through the same issue. We were happy to have a high GPA cause it got us Greek Week points and points with our nationals, but at the same time we did have to fight the stigma of being "nerdy." I think it was self-perpetuating because the members kept recruiting the same kind of people - once some of them graduated and we got very different types in a pledge class it lessened. (So did our GPA, LOL, so be careful what you wish for.)

As SandS said, if the guys are hot and fun to hang out with, no one will mind. Now if they are recruiting guys that have no interest in anything other than Dungeons & Dragons, you have a problem because they won't be effective rushers. Impress upon them how important it is to have members with diverse personalities. Oh, and I wouldn't do things like putting "highest campus GPA" on rush posters - that will attract members only interested in grades, same as if you put "60% of our members are athletes" it would only attract athletes. Be glad that you have it, and play it up to your national, but don't brag about it on campus.

And think of it this way... all those 'nerdy' computer science majors are the ones who are going to end up with the LONG green after graduation, and they'll be able to contribute more $$ as alums.

Besides - sexy nerds are irresistible. At least they are to this geek girl. ;)

Response
 

Shit dude, I wish I could get my chapter like that! I can barely get a 2.25 average!

I have to totally disagree with a lot that has been said in this thread (not all...SandS is dead on)

My house is always in contention for top GPA on our campus. The past three year we have won the award for having the highest chapter GPA in all of Beta Theta Pi. We have no problem partying with the popular sororities.

Having a GPA of over 3.4 is not a bad thing, and I think that 33girl is absolutely and utterly wrong not to put your GPA on rush brochures. It will attract a lot of "nerdy" guys, but here is where the mutual selection process of rush becomes very important. If a guy is not well rounded, don't let your undergrads sign him.

I met plenty of guys when I was rushing who were nerds, simply put, but b/c they weren't well rounded, they didn't get invites back to future rush parties. They had a primary focus of grades and that wasn't the type of guys my house was looking for.

The result is that my house has it's priorities straight. From Sunday night to Wednesday night, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone not studying, but on Thursday through Saturday night we party like rock stars. Girls constantly tell us that we're the nicest guys on campus and that they would party with us more if we had more parties (we've gotten busted so many times that we're limited to only a couple of party houses, thus our official parties have dwindled...but that's not a result of having a great GPA).

If you feel this that "cool" guys won't want to be a part of a house that will help them suceed in life, then I have to wonder about their reasons for being in school in the first place.

If you are seriously worried about this, then I say as chapter advisor, use your position and talk to the rush chairmen and set out a plan on what type of guys you would prefer to sign. I think that simply moving towards a well-rounded signee is all that you have to do, guys who have the grades, but also are involved on campus, are willing to play intramurals, but who also seem able to know when to cut loose. You find those guys and you can have the best of everything.

From the original post it sounds like this is the problem - the guys they are presently attracting aren't well rounded and too academic minded and not social enough. My rationale behind not putting GPA on rush materials is not making that situation worse.

Have to say I agree with Betarulz! and S and S. As a side note, your post did not mention the campus where your chapter is located, and student culture and expectations vary from place to place. For instance, if you're talking about The Farm, I doubt that a 3.4 GPA is going to be unduly intimidating; virtually everyone admitted is well aware that he or she will encounter almost breathtaking academic achievement, along with unparalleled challenges and opportunities. I'll bet almost no one tells the Admissions Office there (or at the five or six equally selective universities in the country) "my only goal is to party, dude." At other schools, campus norms may be significantly different.
That said, best wishes to you and your chapter for a successful recruitment.

High GPA does not equal Nerd!! If someone thinks that do you really want them!?

Their thinking: If I get a low GPA I will be cool!

That's good!?

A high GPA means your chapter helps people deal with their time. You can claim to have a great time and a tight brotherhood while making grades. You're in college for one reason: to graduate. All else is on the side. If your fraternity doesn't help you with that then what kind of a brotherhood do you have?

When I was at school, the chapter that always had the highest gpa (by quite a bit), partied like rock stars! They basically had two extremes: party mode, and study mode. Their chapter president graduated with a 3.9 in Physics, and I never saw that boy without a beer in his hand! He now has a PhD in Nuclear Physics, and (last I heard) is on the faculty of Duke (I think).

Honestly, as long as your members are well rounded, and don't live up to the "nerd' image, I think having the highest gpa would be a strong selling point. If the guys are currently struggling with an image problem, work with them on social skills, the importance of good conversation skills, dressing well, etc.

Guys like the fact that you have a high GPA.

If nothing else, it gives them something to tell their parents, if their parents are unsure about allowing them to rush.

Also, kids want to stay in school; even if grades aren't super important to them, they want to have high enough GPA's to stay in school/keep their scholarships.

Trust me, it's not a bad thing. Our chapter has had the highest GPA for the past four years, and it's worked to our advantage during rush.

Collin

Rush ended last Saturday...

And I purposely stayed away after the first party. Actually, I was really busy with work and other things, so I didn't have the time to stop by the house to see how things were going, and I still have no idea how they did. I do realize that what I might want for the chapter may not be what the chapter wants, and that's all right. I am proud of their academic accomplishments, but I just had this fear of my chapter becoming like the Lambda Lambda Lambda's of "Revenge of the Nerds". My pledge class, and the classes before mine, worked very hard to get a good mix of all-around types of guys, and we were always competitive in IM's and stuff. My fear is that those things will not matter as much going forward. But hey, I am an alum, and that's cool as well. The good thing about this is that it did teach me about moving on, and putting those things behind me (kind of like that Saturn commercial where it says Now Leaving College). Not that I won't go back for homecoming or alumni weekend sometime, but a lot of what people said here made sense. I never meant to imply that grades were not important to the brothers before, because we always did well, but image IS important in social groups. I don't know much about other schools and their Greek life, but I am pretty sure that Stanford would never be confused with a University of Texas where Greek life is paramount to college enjoyment. Bottom line is that if I didn't care, I wouldn't give a damn, but I do care.

DAMN THESE WITHDRAWAL PAINS!!!
:)

My guess is that at Stanford, most people are on academic scholarship anyways. Therefore, the all-campus and all-Greek GPAs are probably higher than at other schools.

I would say that as long as other areas (intramurals, social, etc.) isn't lacking, then having the top GPA is a point of pride.

Re: Best academic house on campus...is this good???
 

Isn't Stanford notorious for grade inflation? I remember reading that your average GPA was a 3.7 one year. Anyway, relax. I'd rather look for guys that are commited to the chapter - not asses who come in thinking they're doing my chapter a favor for showing up at the party. Beta is right. Try to find a balance I guess if you can choose but don't hide the fact that your guys are smart.

-Rudey

Re: Re: Best academic house on campus...is this good???
 

Typically at the Ivies and other schools that are at that level of prestige few people are going get bad grades...b/c if they did than everyone who didn't get A's or high B's would transfer. Who wants to pay $35000 + a year to get bad grades even if they are from Harvard or Stanford...particularly if they know that they can get great grades other places. Also throw in the fact that legacies get an upperhand in admissions, many of those who attend the Ivies (not all) tend to be sons and daughters of alumni and the school is smart enough to know that you don't want to lose the support of those people...

Grade inflation is rampant at those places.

Re: Re: Re: Best academic house on campus...is this good???
 

I wouldn't go that far. Only certain schools in the Ivy+ have a rep for grade inflation. And honestly, most (if not all) state schools give easy A's.

-Rudey
--Sorry for hijacking the thread...people should be proud to be intelligent.

As far as the high GPA leading to toward rushing nerds, neither of the nerd chapters on my campus have particularly great GPAs (am I stereotyping? Well, when you have a Magic tournament as a rush event ...). On the other hand, the chapters with the top GPAs tend to turn out the Homecoming kings and get the biggest pledge classes. So at least on some campuses a high GPA isn't a mark of death!

Here is the really weird thing for me about reading some of the responses to this post...

I admit that I know very little about the academic reputations of most schools-I have always assumed that there are always those who achieve, and those who skate along, and depending on the individual drive of the student, that determines how well they do in school. Having said that, I personally have never said or felt that because I attended "X" University, that my 3.3 is worth a 3.7 had I attended "Y" University. So when a person says that Stanford is notorious for grade inflation, but that person has NEVER taken one class at Stanford, that to me is insulting. It insults me because I know that I EARNED EVERY GRADE I RECEIVED, whether it was an "A", "B", or even the rare and unwelcome "C". And yes, people DO flunk out of Stanford, even those with connections and daddy's money. Maybe, just maybe, if the average GPA was 3.7 or so, students ACTUALLY studied and the curve accurately reflected their efforts.

I kinda understand this...My sorority is brand new on my campus, we couldn't even get the highest GPA award because we didn't become a chapter until this past April 26th, but we have the highest GPA by far of any Greek organization on my campus. We are sooo proud of this because we have alot of really demanding majors (there is only around 10 female engineers at my school and 4 of them are in it) and many art and music majors ( I got to UHART in CT and they are two of the hardest schools withing the univerisity (I am an art major!Woohoo) so we have the stigma of dorks right now, but we are ok with it, we know we rock and thats what matters!

Maybe it's because I'm wasted after finals right now, but I think this is directed at me...I apologize for offendinge ayou... I didn't mean to directe it at anyo ne person. I am just repeating what I have seen in articles and studies. The thing is that a degree at stanford or an ivy is worth more than a degree somewhere else simpl y b/c of name recognition. I can't dispute that you earned all your grades, but I'm willing to bet that if you had been a "big fish in a small pond" your GPA would have been better than beign an average fish in a big pond. Simply by going to one of the elite schools in the nation yhou have earned a place in higher place in society than if you had gone to university X...that is simply a fact.

Again no offense was ever meant, and I respect your stanford education, b/c socitial norms suggest I should. But i'm so wasted that I may have totally mis interpreted you r entire point...

Thanks! You're a good man, and I appreciate the sentiment...

I didn't try to come across as disrespectful of your views, I just believe that ANYONE who gets a degree from a four-year institution of higher education is deserving of congratulations, no matter where they went. Obviously, we all earn our grades (except if you're a basketball player at the Universtity of Georgia, OUCH!), and most of us do try to work hard. And I'm sure that MOST professors don't give a darn who your daddy is at the end of the semester!

Thanks again...

Working at a university, most of the talk I hear about grade inflation actually comes from the faculty. On the campuses I have been on, there have been some faculty who are very vocal about the subject. I know Harvard has come under a lot of criticism for grade inflation, I believe even from the President of the university.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Best academic house on campus...is this good???
 

The best line/advice anyone can take from this thread.

It's interesting...the Computer Science majors at my school possibly have the lowest GPAs, if we even calculated them. I don't even know what our house GPA is or where we rank with the other sororities...I would imagine that we're probably about all the same, based on the mix of majors and interests.

A MAGIC tournament as a Rush event? Scary! :eek:

I don't think grade inflation is rampant at Ivy/Stanford/Chicago/MIT/Caltech-like schools (which is what I think is meant by "those places"). It exists, but it exists everywhere. Schools like Harvard get more attention for it because of the position they hold in American society.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Best academic house on campus...is this good???
 

First of all having a high GPA has never been a detriment to anyone. Like someone said above, (and I can't remember who said it), it gives the parents a reason to look differently at the Greek system as a whole.

Secondly, in reference to above quote, I take offense to the comment that state universities give easy As. If that were the case I would not have worked my ass off to get a 4.0 every semester, I could have just sat back and partied and not worried about grades. I'm no dummy, and comments like that are rather outrageous. Like my degree is any less fab than someone else's because I went to a state school? Please.

Before we go insulting state schools by inferring that they give easy As, I'm sure people that go to state schools like UMich, UCLA, and Cal could comment on that statement. Though not as prestigious as Harvard or Yale, my degree, from a state school no less, is a Bachelor's Degree. The course of study I followed included more classes than some from other more prestigious schools with the same major. Don't denigrate my degree and the education I received because it wasn't covered in Ivy.

Getting off my soapbox now, I just got really peeved with that comment.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think its kinda ridiculous that you would even ask this question. People are in college to succeed and if someone wouldn't rush because you had the highest GPA, thats really sad. Besides, "nerds" are not necessarily people with high GPAs, its the way they carry themselves. At my school, one of the most popular fraternities always has the highest or second highest GPA and EVERYONE wants to join or hang out with them. They have a lot of members on student government and involved in other school related things and this is seen as a good thing. Also, its a great selling point-- you know how to have fun but school is the number one priority-- you can sell pledges on having tutors, academic help, etc. Besides, its a lot easier to convince parents that fraternities are good things when you have the highest GPA! Think about it that way!

Amen!!! Women date jocks, but they marry nerds.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Best academic house on campus...is this good???
 

I'm glad you see your degree as being "fab".

-Rudey
--Never said it wasn't gorgeous.

high gpas are good. we got a 3.48 last year and finished with the top grades. we got 25 pledges (third largest on campus) with the gpa being quite a draw for many of our rushees. we are far from being a "nerd" house (just ask the ladies :) )

GPA
 

My daughter will be going thru rush this fall and she is very concerned about keeping up her grades. If she asked a member what the house grade point was, would she automatically be labled a nerd and dropped?

From my experience, if the house's GPA is good, then they will probably mention it somewhere in their recruitment parties, literature, websites. Does the school's site have a Greek Affairs page? Sometimes the GPA is listed there.

At my school, which is an exception to almost every rule about everything, we didn't discuss GPA--because, simply, our sororities' national grade cut-offs were lower than the point at which a student would be expelled for bad grades. I have no idea what our house GPA was--we had people from the easiest and hardest concentrations, and we didn't calculate GPA anyway.

Re: GPA
 

Usually what I have found is that Sorority averages tend to be far more clustered than fraternities, plus rarely do you see sororities dominate a campus in grades year after year after year like you see with the guys. Since they are closer in GPA, you are unlikely to find a house that is going to lable anyone a nerd for asking. Is it possible, yeah, but I don't think anyone is goign to think negatively of her for wanting to get good grades. Remember many GLO's were founded on principles of academic acheivement, so if they are living there values, the chapter should be trying to provide a positive academic environment.

If you or you daughter is worried about asking a house about their GPA, it would probably be a good question to ask her Rho Chi (recruitment counselor). Other indications of how much emphasis a chapter places on grades would be to look at their facilities, a nice study room with high speed internet access and newer computers is pretty good evidence. Also asking about what the chapter member thinks of their test file system would be a round about way of getting an indication of academics. A disorganized or rarely updated test file system shows a lack of preparation/dedication of the scholarship chair which could be indicative of the houses academic standing.

Re: GPA
 

I'm not sure how sororities work on your campus and how image conscious they are. Maybe if the girls are there to look good and earn their Mrs. Degree then it wouldn't be a good idea to ask.

But I think in the end I'd want to represent myself in the best light and as truthfully as possible to be where I fit in and can have the opportunities to be happy and do well. If good grades are a concern for your daughter, she shouldn't shy away from that.

In addition to Betarulz's post, I'd say to ask if there are study hours and things like that. In my chapter, we have mandatory library hours. One of my favorite memories from our pledge program was watching one of the brothers study with his little. The little did not understand a book and even though the brother wasn't taking that class, took the time to read it and sit down with him to help him on his paper.

-Rudey

Our house had the top active member gpa for spring 03 and we are a house of architects engineers and scientists...at the same time I know people in our house who are holding down 4.0 and are the furthest from nerdy as possible.

Also i heard that rho chis changed to rho gams b/c of a conflict in names.

later