Bush's speech and what's next?
 

Thoughts? I will wait til I am less pissed off to post mine.

Edited cause it won't let me delete it. :(

We need to support our President and our troops! God Bless America, our leaders and our military men and women!

You do not have to agree with President Bush, but now is the time to put your support behind our country and our country men and women.

Please remember that our leaders and military often know things that we do not know and are unable to tell us for security reasons. We must put some trust in our leaders, that they are making the best decisions for our country.

Yes, I am a little biased... but I am trying not to let that skew this post.

I lived in Heidelberg, Germany when our Officer's Club was blown-up... the same club my family ate Sunday brunch at for two years. Our school buses were escorted during high alerts by MPs in Jeeps with M-16s. I lived in Berlin, Germany when one of the most popular night clubs that was crowded with Americans was blown-up. I use to think, well this is because we are in Europe, there are people who do not want us here...

I use to stop at Krispy Kreme as I walked through the World Trade Center twice a month going to One World Financial Center from the Hilton Millennium. Now I live in America and people have brought their hate and violence to my own land. As, if America did not have enough hate and violence of it's own to handle. Well, the police firemen, National Guard and Coast Guard handle that violence. Let the military and our President do what they in their expert opinion do what they feel is best to handle the outside violence/terrorism.

As we post our opinions, let us all remember that we are entitled to that opinion... and because of the first amendment we are able to speak it publicly (in ways that people are killed in other countries for doing). It is our right... our freedom... one that our ancestors fought and died for!!!!!!!!!!

Did not hear his speach but am seeing the aftermath of it!

This whole thing sucks!!!

I do not agree with how he is doing this and The only thing I am worried about are our men and women who are there!

It is not the good guys and the bad guys folks.

We will for the most part be in uniforms fighting for right and the democratic way! They on the other hand will have civilian clothes, fight with anything available. Wilkl this contry and those who are going into Iraq be unscathed on our home land! Ha, dont fool youselfs! I am afraid it anint going to be pretty but messy and deadly for all involved!

Is Sadamnit Hussen a Crazy, hell yes he is! Would it have been better to give the so called information to the UN at the earliest possibable time, yes, was it NO!

I aint the Dixie Chick, so have no CD's to get run over, or not being French, no wine to pour down the gutter!

I and all of us have friends who are there and I worry about them not coming back whole!

Nuff said, I get more and more pissed the longer I talk about this!

Oh jeez
 

Ok, can I just say, what the HELL was that crap he said when he was giving his "message to the Iraqi people"...something like, "do not destroy the oil, it is a valuable resource of Iraq"
Oh yeah Iraq, be sure to save that oil for us! I canNOT believe he went there.
Second, um did I miss something, or does it not state in the constitution that only CONGRESS can declare war??? Hmmm, speaking of tyrants BUSH...
Third, I don't think enough people realize what a huge diplomatic failure this signifies...they say history repeats itself - does anyone remember what happened when the League of Nations failed?? eh?
So here's my reaction to the Bush's speech(or rather the speech written for him by a team of speechwriters and read off of a teleprompter - support Bush? HELLZ NO!!!! If you ask me, this is the signal for people to speak out against this moron more than ever, before he completely destroys our country.

By the way, what the frig happened to Dick Cheney? The man seems to have cpmpletely disappeared, I can't remember the last time I read about him in the news, or saw him on tv, magazines, or anywhere. That's kind of disturbing...I bet Bush accidentally shot him on the ranch...soon we'll see him on a newscast saying how he had to do it because Cheney had become an axis of evil or something.

venting about this
 

This whole situation worries me, partly because a man I care about will be fighting this war, and because this whole war will have a lot of negative consequences for US foreign relations. I really really wanted to work in international politics, but now after seeing this whole thing blow up (and i am against the war) i don't know that i could deal with having conflicting viewpoints. I'm just praying for a speedy end to all of this madness, and a safe return home for all our loved ones.

I don't want to go to war, I don't think we should be going to war withough support from the UN Security Council, but it doesn't do me any good to fight something that I cannot affect. I'm just going to sit at home and wait for my friends to come home. I believe that Tom Daschle made a statement that our young people will be fighting this war, and it made me remember that a lot of guys I have known since kindergarten are over there right now. I just don't understand why they have to fight because of a 12 year old war that started and ended when we were 7/8 years old.

Sorry, I don't know if that has any real relevance to anything, but i've been having to be very supportive for someone I may not talk to again for a year other than in letters and I needed to vent because I could not tell him exactly how I feel about this whole mess that our country is in right now.

I interviewed a gentleman in the administration at my school. He came to us after having worked at the UN for the US governement. He's an expert in foriegn affairs. He made an interesting comparison in the interview -- he compared the US to a new Rome.

Not Rome in terms of empire building and territory but Rome in terms of economics, influence and military power.

A very thought provoking comparison really. If we do indeed turn out to be the new Rome will our downfall be from becoming too spread out as well?

Kind of chilling.

Re: Oh jeez
 

Dick Cheney was on "Meet the Press" Sunday morning

hahaha, thanks, I was semi-joking, but it's good to know the man is still alive!

^5 to Cloud9...
 

because I noticed the oil comment too!!!!!

The FIRST thing he said to the Iraqi people was "DO NOT DESROY THE OIL." SO telling!!!!

Well, folks, anytime after 7 p.m. Central time (48 hours after the speech tonight) Wednesday expect to see the troops charging the berms delineating the Iraq/Kuwait border and the Tomahawks flying towards beautiful downtown Baghdad.

We gave Saddam a chance to own up to WMD and to get rid of his stockpile; he instead gave us the proverbial finger by stalling and concealing and using every known diplomatic tool in his bag. We gave peace a chance, and when peace fails we must use other means to get rid of the threat.

Come Wednesday night, or at a later time and place of the President's choosing, it's open season on Saddam Hussein, his family and political sycophants... and there ain't no bag limit! There WILL be a bullet or a bomb or a missile with his name on it.

Watch Saddam hose off a few Scuds towards Israel or encourage terrorists to attack us at home to try to instill fear. I wouldn't be surprised if he whips out his WMD 'Norbecker' (you have to have watched the movie Beer to get the in-joke ;)) to slow down our inexorable march towards Baghdad. And the Israelis have already stated they WILL retaliate if attacked.

BTW VP Cheney probably is sitting at some 'undisclosed' location in the Federal Relocation Arc, possibly Mount Weather or Raven Rock Mountain. Or some other classified relocation center we don't even know (or have the need to know) about.

Shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto (or is it Yamamoto Isoroku... using the proper Japanese/Chinese/Korean method of naming?) was quoted as saying:

"I had intended to deal a fatal blow to the American fleet by attacking Pearl Harbor... I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant, and fill him with a terrible resolve."

Less than two years later, Yamamoto was shot out of the sky. Three and a half years later, Japan was a near-total ruin.

Cloud 9,

Actually, the first thing President Bush addressed to the Iraqi people was that the US military will provide food and medicine, and help end the oppression of the Iraqi people.

As for Congress approving war, and President Bush being a "tyrant", they did, and he isn't. Here's his quote:

"Recognizing the threat to our country, the United States Congress voted overwhelmingly last year to support the use of force against Iraq."

--Not trying to discredit you, Cloud 9. Its just the journalist in me ;)

Actually I read the article that I believe you are refering to.... it was in "Harper's" and called "America the New Rome". It discussed the parellel between the collapse of republican (democratic) ideals and the rise of militarism and despotism in Rome and the US. While I did find the comparision simplistic and overly general it did prove to be a thought provoking article.

So, for all intents and purposes... Congress has de facto declared a state of war against Iraq and authorized the President, as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States to use force to disarm Saddam. Earlier UN Security Council resolutions dating back to Gulf War I also back him up as well. Illegal war, my a**!

I wish people would see more issues than just the oil. It IS a valuable resource that DOES belong to the Iraqi people. Individuals discredit Bush by saying that he ignores the Iraqi people and how this will affect them, and then they blast him for addressing them. Be intelligent, be logical, and make up your mind.

Crystal

I think this is the article...

http://www.cybertrails.com/~sbielke/...meAmerica.html

--Not trying to discredit you, Cloud 9. Its just the journalist in me

S'aight, I'm glad you pointed it out, I missed(or perhaps forgot/disregarded?) that bit of information. It actually makes me feel better, I was starting to really freak out, it's one less thing to worry about. One question---does that decision still hold, because I saw a report a little while ago mentioning the need for Congressional votes regarding war? Of course, either way, I still don't support Bush - but at least he hasn't gone THAT far...yet.

Also, I didn't say the oil was the first thing he mentioned, but it certainly was the thing that stuck out.

Cloud 9,

In answer to your question, if you read this article it might help you make more sense about Congress's position on the war

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...ing/index.html

Wow, where to start
There were a lot of good comments made and a lot of comments that just irritated me!

One of the things that annoys me most is how people are anti-war because civiliians could get hurt. I say, oh well, it's gotta happen. It's sad, but it's a fact of war. If the shoe was reversed and an anti-american country had the chance to attatch our civillians they wouldn't hesitate. (oh yea, that already happened!) so why are we giving them a courtesy that they would not grant us.

I am so tired of NATO! I really think it needs to end! I mean, where would it be without our country anyways. When NATO is not carrying out its duties we have to protect ourselves. I thought it was great in the President's speech tonight how he said that we are soverign when it comes to protecting ourself. I think that ever since the end of WW2 France has wanted to be able to become known as one of the powerful countries again. They are jealous of the dominating force of the U.S. It's one thing to disagree with the U.S. but France didn't just veto the war, they acitvely campaigned to have other countiries to come to their side. Personally I think that NATO (opposing countires) are cowards.

The refrence to Pearl Harbor was great! Why is it that when Pearl Harbor was attatcked there was no question that our country would enter war. Now after 9/11 and dealing with an uncoooperative Hussein we have to play political games. If we were living in the era of WW2 it would not have taken this long to go to war.

Congress has approved the war. Anyways, I heard tonight that 80% percent of Americans support this war. So what congressman in his right mind would upset his constituency. I think that it is wonderful to see that the issues are not a party affiliated.

I like most people have friends who will have to leave. I live in an area that is very much dominated by the military. ( my school is in Norfolk, the largest naval port) So, I'm not only seeing a lot of friends leave, but a lot of my friends parent's as well- people I have known for a long time. It's a scary thing, but we have to support our troops. These young men are going over there to defend our rights, they are defending American ideals and principles, and they are proud to do it! Here they are doing this honorable thing and all our people can do is complain. Lately, there have been a lot of stupid little protestors with thier signs around the city. It makes me sick to think that we live in a very military oriented area and our soldiers have to visually see this lack of support.

Finally, I think Bush is doing a great job! Some say he is finishing a war his dad couldn't finish. Well, he is finishing a war that Clinton didn't have the guts to approach. Clinton left his attentions to gaining campaingn finacnces from the Chinese rather than focusing on other important issues. I really feel sorry for President Bush because he has to play this poitical game with the rest of the world. Who ever heard of a war where you have to tell the enemy what you are going to do. It's absurd. Bush shouldn't have to give a 48 hour warning- it should just happen. We do not need to ask permission to protect our country!

alfuzzxi.....
 

AMEN GIRL!

Crystal

NATO is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, it was designed as a Defensive alliance. It went to war after 9/11 with ALL member nation's participating in Afghanistan. If you want to try to make the connection between 9/11 and Iraq, ask yourself why your government is not activly campaigning to attack Saudi Arabia, where 9 of the 11 high jackers lived, trained and were financed. Not only is there 0 thought given to attacking Saudi, American forces are staging their attacks FROM SAUDI SOIL. I'm not saying that the impending war is not about disarmament, or about WMD or anything along those lines, it is however not a defensive act, it is an act of agression, whether it be pre emptive or not, the agressor is not Iraq in this case.

If you are angry at France for campaigning an Anti War stance, should you not be angry at your own government for campaigning a pro war stance? That is the whole point of NATO, and the United Nations and any other alliance you want to through out there. They are there to debate the outcomes of member nations moves, and to determine what they feel is the best move for A)Their Citizens (as shown by the American Attack without UN consent) and B)The World (As shown by the dissention from war). The beginnings of the United Nations is with the League of Nations. The LoN was started in 1919 after WW1, by Woodrow Wilson, however the American Congress could not agree to join, so the US was not a member nation. The mandate of the LoN was to prevent war, however due to the circumstances in the 30's (the depression) most countries ignored what was happening in Germany. Welcome to WWII. The UN was started after that, with a different organizational meathod, but basically as the same concept. The UN has 'fought' one war, the Korean War, in the early fifties. They lost. Perhaps, many of the current member states don't want to see another war rushed into that ends the same way.

Ok, thanks for the history recap, even though I really didn't need all that. my main point is, that we do not need other countries (NATO) telling us what we can or can not do. If our country feels that it is in our best interest to enter a war then we should be able to. If NATO doesn't want to support us, then that is fine but we shouldn't be politically attatcked for making a move that we think is in our best interest. The welfare of America is our first priority not NATO.

Whoa, ok, that is NOT the sort of image we want to portray to the rest of the world. Whether you want to accept it or not, we live in a global world now. It is not just about what WE want to do, it's about what's best for all countries. Let's see, there was another nation once upon a time that just pushed ahead with its own agenda, aggressively attacking other countries, pissing off the rest of the world...who was that...oh yes, Nazi Germany! Even if the similarities are very limited, I don't think there should be ANY similarities in the way the World's best interests are handled. Look, it is just not smart to give the world the finger, stomp out of negotiations, and knock down Iraq's figurative tower of blocks "because we say so."

Also, do not dismiss the history lessons, maybe if we all paid more attention to them there would be less bad and potentially catastrophic decisions made in the future.

Do you think any of these other nations would do the same in reverse. We may live in a global world, but when it gets down to it, every nation is going to have nationalistic views. Your not going to see any nation to committ to doing any thing unless there is a benefit for themselves. They may know that something is the right thing to do but won't do it, b/c there is no personal gain (France) It's a natural instinct to protect yourself first, that is never going to change.

Then why are we the first and only ones to ignore the decisions made by the UN? Everyone else seems to be looking for the common good, and isn't that what we're always saying about ourselves?

The majority of our nation believes that it is the common good to go to war. Each nation is entitled to it's own opinion. I just dont' think we should be trapped because other's don't agree. Seriously, we will not be the only ones to ignore the UN. Turkey is going to let us fly over their area- isn't that showing that they are going to ignore UN



Is Britain still backing us? (mainly Tony Blair)

'Far as I know, there's 25,000 Tommies ready to crash through the border berms along with 250,000 Yanks when the order comes. It'll probably kill Tony Blair's political career, as several members of his government have already resigned and the Labour party is looking for an excuse to replace him.

NY Post editiorial 3/18/2003
 

Here's an opinion from the New York Post:

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/op...ists/71058.htm

Where did you hear this?

Even if this is accurate, just because 80% of Americans support this war it does not make it right.

Last time I checked, Saddam was not the one who ordered planes flown into the World Trade Center and Pentagon. We are already fighting a war in retalliation for that tragic event - it's called the War on Terror. Invading Iraq is a whole new ballgame... :rolleyes:

Remeber, its only 80% of Americans POLLED!

Everyone needs to see "BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE"
 

http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/l...rful/index.php
From the above webpage:
1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.

1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.

1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.

1963-1975: American military kills 4 million civilians in Southeast Asia.

September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically elected president Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.

1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.

1980's: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.

1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans die.

1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.

1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to help them kill Iraqis.

1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties

1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.

1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.

1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.

1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.

2000-01: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid".

September 11, 2001: Osama Bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people.

Sigh, I wish it hadn't come to this.

It's hard to look at the world and feel optimistic anymore. I'm graduating in two months and I'm trying to keep a positive outlook on life while going through a fruitless job search. I am trying so hard to keep an optimistic outlook on life after graduation but then I turn on the news and the economy isn't getting better and the terrorist risk is elevated. It's hard to feel positive when the world around you is falling apart piece by piece, country by country.

I don't have any grand solutions to this problem. I major in international studies but this conflict is so muddy that it's hard to look at with any coherance. Should Iraq disarm? Most definatly, but maybe we shouldn't have supported Iraq in the 80s when they were fighting Iran. Of course if we didn't support Iraq in the 80s maybe Islamic fundamentalism from Iran would have spread even further in the Middle East and caused a different set of problems. American foreign policy is incredibly complicated and it is never as clear as "I'm good/you're bad, end of story."

Now that war is inevitable, I hope it's the right solution. I have alot of respect for the men and women in uniform who are out there fighting, they are doing a job that I would never be able to do. Many, if not all of us, knows someone or knows someone who knows someone who is fighting out there and we all hope they come back safe and sound. I hope that at the end of the day, justice will prevail.

I hope above all else that when I graduate into the real world in May I can say that I am entering a good and decent world. I remember finishing high school/finishing college in the late nineties when everything seemed alright and a college degree was the promise of a good life. That reality is very different now and I wish it wasn't.

</end babbling of a scared soon-to-be college graduate>

Re: Oh jeez
 

I love you. Please read about the war powers act. Follow it up with some basic analysis of the previous war (ie who declared the war over?). Then read about what happened when the oil fields were destroyed last time (global environmental and economic issues). Oh and at some point, grab a book talking about the League of Nations. And finally ask yourself what point you made by throwing the Dick Cheney comments in there. Obviously it'd be important to understand which VP's were in the media often, when that trend started, and why.

-Rudey
--Then you can be uber smart like me. <NERD LAUGH>

Re: Everyone needs to see "BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE"
 

Ah Americans, whether you're liberal or conservative you still think you know what's best for the world. Gotta love that.

-Rudey
--The liberals supported the Ayatollah I hear.

Re: Re: Oh jeez
 

Rudey
You read my mind!

-Cream
--Uber smart just like Rudey <lol!>

Hahahahaha, uber smartASS that is...

My points still stand. If you have your own little references or links to show me then do so, my opinion is not unchangeable. Otherwise I'll have to disregard you.

P.S., did I not say I was joking about Cheney...if not here's your blatent explanation---Cheney dead=joke. Har, har...no? Ah well, apparently it went over your head.

Just because someone disagrees with your point of view doesn't mean that it went over someone's head.

@ Cloud9
 

Dang she told you!!!

Hi, it's not a point of view, let me say again...joke. Joke does not equal point of view, joke equals not serious. Therefore disagreeing with it is of no consequence---how the hell is it possible to "disagree" with a joke? You either get it or you don't. And how is me not having seen Cheney in the spotlight in awhile a point of view? That's just me not knowing where the guy is, hence my question, "what happened to him?" Can we move on with life now?

I read your post incorrectly. I thought that you meant your opinion "went over your head" in your previous post.

My life is moving on. :)