is this a low anywhere else?
 

i dont know why i thought of this all of a sudden. it could be because i am incredibly tired, in the middle of a paper and my mind keep wandering. Anyway....
At the beginning of the year, a law was put into effect in Florida that put a ban on smoking in public places (restaurants, clubs, bars, etc....)i dont smoke but i was wandering what you people think.
is this fair to smokers? should it just be about the health of the non smokers??

is this a low?!?!?
 

i mean is this a law...man am i tired:rolleyes:

They just shot that same bill down here (in Oklahoma) in the House today.. I think it's fair to non-smokers. I'm one of those folks who is pretty laissez-faire about things until you start encroaching on my territory or harming me in some way. At that point it's my business to ask you not to. This law is the societal equivelant of that.

I love the new law, personally. It makes going out to dinner so much more enjoyable.

Then again, I've never been a smoker, so I wouldn't know how the other half feel.

Cali
 

It is in California. You can't smoke in bars, clubs, or restaraunts. And some cities have laws where yu must stand so many feet from the doors of buildings.
It sucks for smokers, but it's good for you anyway! Maybe you'll quit. ;-)
-M

It's all aboout externalities..... if I could charge every smoker for the damadge they could cause to my lungs by smoking near me such a law would not need to be passes. But sadly, the Coase Theorem can't be applied here.
-M

i like the law too. my boyfriend the smoker doesnt. fortunately for him, some restaurants havent put the law into effect yet (not till a later date). so when we go out he wants to go to a smoking restaurant.
for some reason i voted against it. what the heck was i thinking?:rolleyes:

I think it's a law in Cali and In-Why-See...
 

I am an asthmatic. Therefore, I would love to go to a bar and not have to worry about triggering an asthma attack, or carrying three different inhalers in the club (because they just don't fit in my bar bag :p). This is one law that makes me semi-proud to be a Floridian. Mr. Munchkin is a smoker, so he'll probably hate it. But, I love it...:D

I might not be an expert by any means in the terms of "law." But if such a law is passed and it rolls into place, don't all things/places/people that the law applies to have to abide by it? I mean, if a law is set into place, it's a law, something dictated by the government. How could some restaurants "not put the law into effect?" Either the law isn't in place yet, so some restaurants won't change until it does, or the law \ was passed and some restaurants are breaking it.

I think this is fabulious. It's about time something like this happened. :D

A number of Colorado cities have enacted this kind of law. Some even in outdoor areas like public stadiums.

I've never smoked and I applaud these efforts.

The city of Ottawa passed this last summer....no smoking in any facility - restaurants, bars, offices, anything - at first all smokers were up in arms about it, but when it all comes down to it you'll decide if smoking in -30 degree weather is enough incentive to quit smoking (if the obscene pictures on cig packages aren't enough for you).

I love going to a bar with no smoking, it's a world of difference....in case any of you haven't realized yet, the shit is very bad for you. It's about damn time other municipalities took action vs tobacco companies.

My coworkers and I were disgussing this and here's some key points we came up with.

If they (government) ban smoking in public restraunts or such they are limiting the rights of people. What happens when rights are taken away or limited? More rights are taken away or limited. It's like telling people they cannot drink alcohol at a bar after a certain time because then you're more apt to get in an accident. I believe that it should be up to the individual owner to choose if their establishment was smoke free or not. The same happened with most Malls...they are now smoke free. I know of one restraunt in town here that is smoke free. And their bar area....empty. People don't hang out at the bar when it's smoke free (sorry, but it's true).

This isn't a personal slam Munchkin. The perfume counters: should they be limited to the number of scents and such that is around? I mean, I have severe allergies myself and some scents trigger them. So does that mean that new laws should be enforced that target perfume counters? No, not likely. Does it annoy me...yes. Do I spend much time there...not really. But there are times when I have to walk through that area (no it's not my hangout) but I get over it. I can fully understand your medical concerns...my brother used to be asthmatic and could never go to places with clouds of smoke. But do people really find that restraunts have clouds of smoke?

It's going in to effect in May in Boston. I can't decide how I feel about it. I don't smoke, and personally I hate coming home from a bar at night smelling of it, but at the same time I don't think it's fair to the people that do smoke to make them leave a bar to go outside to smoke.

The same by-law was passed in Guelph last year, and was already in affect in Kitchener-Waterloo.
Toronto passed a similar by-law, however you are able to smoke in bars. But that might change come this summer or next.
I am a smoker (who's trying to quit by the way) and I do anjoy having a smoke with my drink, but I don't have a problem with taking it outside.

I wonder about that too. some restaurants say that we dont have a smoking section anymore. others say that we do not have to enforced the ban until september.. whatever:confused:

yeah but Hootie, my liver is affected by the drunk sitting a few tables over from me...

What the objective is: to limit tobacco consumption and bring down all the healthcare costs associated with it. Restaurants are the first place to be targeted because it's where the greatest amount of usage is...then, you'll see it affect all public places.

What about perfume?
 

It's been my experience that the people who work at perfume counters are much less aggressive than they were a few years ago. I know people who work at department stores, and they have been told NOT TO SPRAY unless a customer specifically asks for it, and often times not at all (which is why they have samples of the perfume sprayed on little cards). This is a compromise, in my eyes, equal to the smoking ban in restaurants and bars.

Non-smokers don't smoke. Period. People that only smoke when they drink are smokers, that only smoke when they drink lol.

Men that like only blow other men when they are drinking are not wholly straight lol.

hahahahhahaha.
p.s. how's the ponch, big guy?

The new law is great! I can sit down and have dinner at a restaurant and not walk out smelling like smoke. I wish they would ban smoking at all public establishments but, for now, it's at restaurants only.

We've had this law in California for years (all public facilities) and while there was much complaining and hand waving initially, it's been great for overall. You can dine and drink without the stink of cigarettes/cigar/pipe (and yes, I do love the smell of pipe-but not required while I'm munching on a linguine entree.)

Whenever I go to Las Vegas, I forget what it's like to smell smoke EVERYWHERE--and your lungs to react to it (last time, I got sick from standing over a smoldering cigarette at a roulette table).

BTW, California also does have limits on when you can serve alcohol: no liquor sales from 2:00 AM-6:00 AM at grocery stores, bars, clubs and resturants (yep, that's why our clubs often close at 2:00 AM: what's the point of being open, from their perspective, if you have to do last call at 1:45 AM?) :rolleyes:

Generally, I think that California is an over-regulated state, but I can't say that I'm going to protest too much over valid environmental/health issues.

I would personally be extatic if IL passed that law. I hate coming home from the bars smelling like smoke...even when I stay in the sections that are less smoky...also smoke is a VERY common allergy and I guess you could say if you were allergic just stay away, but when you live in a town like I do, nothing but the bars are open past midnight. I would also be in favor if they made the law (I'm not exactly sure how they would regulate this but...) one out of every two resarunts and one out of every three bars in each county/city/town must be smoke free...I suppose that would be a soultion, but the problem would be determining who gets to be what... oh well, I guess I'll just live in my dream world for now.

They tried to pass this in Pittsburgh and there is some state law that said they couldn't. I'll post a link later.

I think that in California where it's usually warm this would work, but asking someone to go outside in 2 degree weather to smoke? Total BS in my opinion.

If individual restaurants/bars think their clientele would go for it then fine, be smoke-free all you want, but there are places around here that would probably close if people weren't allowed to smoke there and that would suck for the owners.

smokers will still go outside no matter how cold it is....here, the restaurants without patios lose business to the ones that do. Once the nice weather hits, everyone wants to be outside to enjoy it. But these establishments were already at this disadvantage before the by-law was passed.

I think Delaware has similar laws that ban smoking in bars and restaurants.

that's a ridiculous statement. if you smoke a cigarette, you are a smoker! period! it doesn't matter if you smoke one or 50 a day.

thank god for this law! it just started last weekend in my county in NY and i am so excited. i can't stand not being able to breathe when i'm out at night. it has gotten to the point that i will leave the bar that i'm at when my eyes and lungs start burning.

i'm so tired of people screeching about how "the government is limiting MY rights!!". whatever:rolleyes: if i didn't have to smell your stank and have that stank stick to me until i wash my clothes, then i would agree. i'm sick of people blowing smoke in my face. i'm tired of being in a small enclosed space not being able to breathe because others are exercising their "rights". when cigarettes are created so that the gross smoker only has to smell it, then i say take away the ban. but until that day happens, don't infringe upon MY rights to not stink and choke.

smoking is gross. people look like idiots when they do it.

thank god some politicians finally have gotten some sense to them.

i have NO pity for those POOR, helpless smokers who now have to go out into the cold to smoke.

i wish they'd make a law to lock up those idiots who throw lit cigarettes out of their cars. are these people kidding/??? keep that crap in your own car and don't hit my car with your burning cigarette.:mad:

I hate these laws. They are a bit much. If you are coming home from a bar, you can wash the smoke out of your just as easily as you can wash away that alcohol seeping out of your pores & making you smell like a brewery. Both smells are gross, and I don't want to smell anyone that reeks. Period.

And I'm afraid that I'm going down the same slippery slope line of thinking as others. What's next? Alcohol? We've been down that road before.

City of Dallas just passed an ordinance banning smoking in restaurants and bars effective last Saturday (March 1). The bar and restaurant owners are up in arms over it, claiming they'll lose business to restaurants and clubs in cities that do allow it.

Smoking goes part and parcel with bars. That's part of the ambiance, that's part of the culture. You drink, you smoke, you induldge every vice that one can in a public place legally, and then you leave.

I grew up in MD, where there are strict no-smoking laws for resturants and such. But the bars were untouched. And while I do understand it for resturants, and when I'm having bad patches with my lungs, I appreciate it as well, you can't touch bars in that regard. You'd loose buisness horrifically. In PA, where I'm at college, you don't tell a pack of guys who've come to the bar to drink in -20 weather to take the cigarettes outside, especially when the alcohol can't leave the premises open. It's too cold for the porches for most of the year. Our fav bar in town works it fairly well, in my opinion. There's a smoking section with the bar downstairs as well as seating to eat, and the non-smoking section is upstairs. You can still order drinks from the bar, but you don't sit at it. It works.

The point is, if you don't like smokers in bars, then don't go to bars. Go to a non-smoking club or resturant instead.

~Emma

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the Florida law does not apply to bars. It only applies to restaraunts. Businesses that want to allow smoking must have a certain percentage of their profits (I forget how much) from the sale of alcohol.

So, you can still go have a drink and smoke. You just can't go out to dinner, order a drink and blow your smoke all over the place.

Personally, the best analogy to smoking and non-smoking sections in a resteraunt is to have a peeing and non-peeing side of a pool. It makes just as much sense.

In California the law is part of the labor code and you cannot have people smoke in the workplace, including restaurants and bars that are enclosed by four walls. In the beginning a lot of restuarants tried to make themselves into clubs where the employees were owners and the patrons paid a membership fee and were allowed to smoke but the state cracked down on them. Now there are a lot of bars that won't tell people to stop most of the time, but for the most part people are pretty good about not smoking as much. I can't wait for it to apply outside as well. It's revolting to be waiting in line for a movie and have the person in front of you in line light up. There isn't anywhere you can go to get away. Or when you are at an outdoor mall or want to eat lunch on the patio. Basically, the law has made it so that non-smokers don't get to dine on the patio anymore b/c that's where all the smokers are.

In Boston they're just getting along to passing a law banning smoking in bars, and surrounding towns have the law already.

I'm not a big fan of it - I'm not a smoker, but I still think those who do should have the right.

there was some talk about banning smoking in bars and clubs but i dont really included in the current law

Actually, the bars here haven't. A lot of people use this response to stop a number of laws that are actually good for us.

On another note, the idea of restricting free will and action is a good one to discuss. However, your right to swing your hand stops when my face is in the way. The same with smoking. Second hand smoke is really harmful and hard to get away from (don't tell me to go to another restaraunt, b/c most all of them will have smokers). That's why this law is justified.
-M

you can't be serious. :mad:

you're going to tell me that because YOU want to smoke and put smoke in the air for other people to breathe that I should have to go somewhere else?

smokers are unbelievably selfish in my opinion.

give me a break.:rolleyes:

that is the best analogy i have heard!!!

very well said!:D

I think it's a great idea.

I don't see how not allowing people to smoke in restaurants infringes on somebody's rights but doing something that negatively affects the health of others doesn't infringe on their rights. Smoke allergies are increasingly common these days. I have a friend who has asthma attacks if he's exposed to too much smoke, so whenever we go out to eat we have to avoid the restaurants with smoking sections. Honestly, when it's your "right" to do something you enjoy vs. somebody else's right to not have their health compromised, I think the smokers are going to lose out here. I wouldn't be surprised if laws like this are passed pretty much everywhere in the next 10-15 years.

The line about bars losing customers if they outlaw smoking is totally ridiculous, too. It's true that a bar that forbids smoking often loses business, but that's because the smokers just take their business to another bar. If all the bars in one city (or state!) are smoke-free, they're not going to drive outside city (or state) limits just to get a couple drinks. I can picture the smokers bitching about it for a while, boycotting the bars for about two weeks and then eventually coming back. Face it, people are not going to stay out of the bars just because they're not allowed to smoke there. They'll get used to it and take it outside.

I definitely think this law should be passed in all restaurants . . . I'm still undecided about the bars, though.