|
Homophobia Response at Chicago
How would you guys respond to this? We're all being called into an emergency greek life meeting tonight.
It's ridiculous because the event was open to not just fraternities. The persons making the comments were fraternity members, but they were also students at the university, athletes, and members of other organizations. On top of that 2 comments out of 700 is a small percentage. Nobody is trying to excuse it, but this is just being used as another attack on Greeks unfairly in my opinion. Chicago Maroon - News Issue: 03/04/03 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. University event raises spectre of homophobia By Isaac Wolf Homophobic comments made at the Mr. University pageant last Thursday night brought into question the community's acceptance of homosexuals and raised concerns that the Greek system, whose members were a large part of the crowd, condones homophobia. The slurs, called out by a handful of the approximately 700 students at the pageant, came mostly during the talent portion of the contest. The derogatory comments reached a crescendo during the singing performance of one candidate, when a member of the audience yelled "faggot," among other vulgar statements. Immediately after making the comment, the student was forcibly removed by Lori Hurvitz, assistant director of student activities and advisor to the Greek system. After she spoke to him, the student, a fraternity member, returned to the pageant. Seen by some as a throwback to the era when social groups were marked by highly exclusive standards, fraternities and sororities strive to maintain the grain of tradition which defines them. At a place with so much emphasis on egalitarianism, equality, and open-mindedness, some feel the fraternity hall represents the only outlet for students to espouse views no longer acceptable around campus. The comments Thursday night follow an incident last fall where a student in the College was assaulted with a beer can after dancing with another male student at a fraternity party. According to Hurvitz, these two instances have not been the only acts of homophobia during the academic year, though they were the most visible. "Several instances have involved the Greek system," she said. "Whether it's a coincidence or not, I'm not sure." To explore the issue, the University is convening a meeting with leaders of the Greek system this week to discuss homophobia and find ways to ensure that fraternities and sororities are not the source of anti-homosexual sentiment. Several of the estimated eight percent of students in the College involved in Greek life at the University are homosexual, according to Hurvitz. "I don't think the Greek system is helping, but I don't think homophobic tendencies are limited to it," she said. "It is a community we can concentrate on and work with." Hurvitz said that though the several incidents of homophobia on campus are cause for concern, they are attributable to small groups of individuals--not to the institution of fraternities and sororities. In Phi Gamma Delta (Fiji), one of the University's larger fraternities, there are no openly gay brothers, according to president Connor Looney. He said that no homosexual student has ever tried to become a member. "Most of the guys here are on the football team--those are the only guys who really want to join," Looney said, adding that he has known of no openly gay members on Chicago's football team. The University's homosexual community, for its part, responded formally to the incident at the pageant with an open letter by the Queers and Associates student group underscoring the University's anti-defamation policies and reiterating the negative effects that such remarks have on the community. Kathy Forde, academic advisor and co-coordinator of the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender and Queer Mentoring Program (LGBTQ), expressed that while the outburst on Thursday night was troubling, the University community is generally respectful and accepting of homosexual students. For Forde, the University community is a model for what society as a whole should strive to be: a place where people are valued for who they are and the contributions they make, not their sexual preference. "Homophobia makes it difficult for LBGT [lesbian, bisexual, gay, transgender] students to participate fully and that's a shame," Forde wrote in an e-mail interview. "It's important for people--gay and straight--to speak up when they hear homophobic comments. By not letting the comments slide and by addressing them as offensive, people start to realize that homophobia is inappropriate." Mary Anne Guediguian, president of Kappa Alpha Theta, the sorority which hosted the Mr. University pageant, issued an apology to all those who were offended at the event. "As an organization, and members of the Greek Community here at the University of Chicago, Kappa Alpha Theta does not condone or endorse any of the comments made during our show," Guediguian wrote. Susan Art, dean of students in the College, said that students in the College hold a "range of attitudes" about sensitive subjects such as homosexuality. The primary reason there were so many homophobic slurs at the pageant, she said, was that the consumption of alcohol unleashed these sentiments. "It's not so much Greek life as it is excessive alcohol use," Art said. "If they are inebriated, they lose control of their own speech and judgment." Art emphasized that the University is determined for homosexual students to feel welcome here, and to feel that the climate is acceptable for them. She admitted that the spectrum of ideas on campus includes some disagreeable ones. "They don't show good judgment in not keeping to themselves--they pollute the environment when they speak out," Art said. "What students with these views should do is recognize their prejudices and learn from each other," Art said. "If we really have an open community, some of the prejudices will be addressed and disappear." To Bill Michel, assistant dean of the College, the most the University can hope for is that educational activities will erase students' homophobic beliefs. "The most we can do is challenge people's views and provide the opportunities for growth," he said. "We can't mandate what people think, but we can make clear what's acceptable in the community." Michel, who said the general University community is open and accepting of homosexuals, hoped that the Greek system was not involved in the acts of homophobia. "I plan to bring up that question: what kinds of things the community--all of it--is doing to be accepting of all students," Michel said of his new role as assistant vice president of student life. But for Nathanial Prottas, a fourth-year in the College who is openly gay, the Mr. University situation disappointed him more than anything else. Prottas, who said he has not experienced any personal attacks during his four years here, also said that though the consumption of alcohol may have lowered students' inhibitions, there was some other sentiment--more troubling--beneath the inebriation. "I don't think drunkenness can ever excuse that kind of behavior," he said. "Under any circumstances you know what is right and what is wrong to say. "Clearly, many were caught up in this fraternity world. I can't pinpoint it but there was something else there--you don't just say things like that because you're drunk." But more telling about the University community to Prottas was the absence of response from students in Mandel Hall, where the pageant was being held. "To hear this and then see that the whole student community didn't stand up and gasp, I was shocked," Prottas said. "The events seemed to go undisturbed. I was surprised there wasn't more of an outcry at the moment." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chicago Maroon - Viewpoints Issue: 03/04/03 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Letter to the Editor To the Editor: The bigotry of many fraternity members in the Mr. University crowd last Thursday was disgusting. As a queer student, I find their behavior deeply disturbing, and was shocked by how people's (and your publication's) account of the Mr. University pageant ignored the event's frighteningly anti-gay atmosphere. That many frat members use an event that raises money for children's charities as an excuse to get drunk and scream "faggot" and demand as loud as they can that the contestants tell them "what dick tastes like" (these are a small sampling of the taunts) is shameful and points to the pervasive homophobia in most frats on this campus. It's important to understand that the hateful, dangerous behavior displayed at Mr. University is not simply an isolated incident or an act of immaturity. Last year's Mr. University pageant featured the same sickening display of frat guys tastelessly screaming "fag" and "cocksucker," proudly leading their brothers in anti-gay chants. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that violent queer-bashing happens on campus when bigots like these display their hate in front of their fellow students and faculty with impunity. As a community, we need to realize that every time anti-gay comments aren't confronted, a message is sent that homophobia is acceptable. The fact that frats are environments where homophobia and sexism are by and large uncritically practiced leads to displays like that at Mr. University and every student should be outraged that homophobes see public events at the U of C as places where they can spread hate. Justin Reinheimer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
That's rough. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens all the time, but it very rarely becomes news unless it can be pinned to a bigger organization.
First, obviously, IFC and/or Panhel need to write out a statement expressing their dismay at one happened and reiterating that the majority of Greek members are not homophobic, and submit this to the newspapers and wherever else it needs to go. Then you could possibly plan: - sexual preference "sensitivity training" as a part of risk management workshops - co-sponsoring an event or fundraiser with a group concerned with LGBTQ issues I'm sure somebody else will have more suggestions. |
I would agree w/ everything "sugar and spice" just said however I would take it a step further......
Instead of merely focusing on the alleged gay-bashing (which, from what you described was less than 1% of Greeks at the campus) I would focus on intolerance and prejudice as a whole. The recommendation for "sensitivity training" is a good one--if it goes both ways. The letter to the editor that you posted was every bit as hateful as the 2 persons who supposedly shouted those comments. So while it would be a positive PR gesture for the Greek system to have "sensitivity training" regarding LGBTQ issues, it would be equally appropriate to have "sensitivity training" among the LGBTQ community (and the letter-writer in particular) regarding prejudice and hatred towards organizations with people different from them. I'd be emphasizing that 2 people or 2 comments at a single event do not justify the comments made in the letter. 50 cents worth. Adrienne (PNAM-2003) |
I think what happened at UChicago is horrible. That they are placing blame on fraternity members is not appropriate. However, we must face the fact that there are chapters out there that do not welcome homosexual people in an open manner. Members who are homosexual, in intolerant chapters, often do not come out to their organization. It is sad, but true. Look at your own campus, I'm sure you can see it if you look. The Fiji Pres is well...probably not the person who necessarily knows. A football player can be gay.
Anyhow, I like the idea of bringing speakers, we did last semester with the Alliance. They addressed the issue of Gays and Greeks. There are a few books that have come out one I know of is Out On Fraternity Row. The speaker does tours and gives speaches. Someone tried to bring him here, but he a bit of money. Also Campuspeak.com does all those speakers, esp nat'l convention speakers, they might have someone. The issue should be addressed, but it is too bad it is reactionary. |
Quote:
We spend tons of time and posts on any racial incident or slur (ie the deplorable "blackface" situations) -- and don't want to give any benefit of a doubt to the idiots who commit them -- even if there is at least some doubt as to whether they are meant to be offensive, or the people are simply dumb. It's not likely that whomever allegedly yelled these anti-gay comments did it by mistake. So, should that chapter in Chicago be closed or censured because of the actions of what, hopefully, is in the minority. Would the comments in the letter be any less strident if this had been a racial incident? If statistics are true (and I wouldn't take that to the bank), there are probably more gay men in their fraternity (or even their chapter) than there are black men. I wonder how a gay man or woman would feel hearing his/her brother or sister making those comments. This is a dual standard that has never really occurred to me, but your comment sure got me thinking. |
DeltaAlum, what you just said is so true! I talk to many Brothers I have met on GC and one asked me if I had any Gay Brothers in My Chapter. I told him I did not know!
He said" you know I am Gay". My response was and your point is! He and I have discussed this many times, but as I have come to know him, guess what , it dont mean a damn to me! He is a LXA Brother and a great one at that! He sent me a Book :Out On Fraternity Row: Guess what Folks there are many Greeks Who are Gay in Your Orgs and you do not even know it! A funny, he asked me who my favorite was on Mickey Mouse Club. I said Annett, he said I always liked Cubby! I laffed so damn hard I was choking! Whether a Bro/Sis be Black or white, straight/gay they are still our fellow Greeks! Some of the LOOKED DOWN ON TOKENS are some of the Best Members of our individual Groups. Tom, "to you", thanks for bringing that up! I never really thought of it either!:cool: |
Quote:
Back in the late 80's or early 90's every employee of NBC had to take a full day of "diversity" training. I was one of the trainers. I guess they needed a token Indian -- sorry, I mean Native American. It is my opinion (unfortunatley), that although the course was well thought out, documented and structured -- had excellent research and audio/visual aids and pretty good speakers, a vast majority of the people who took the course walked out the door feeling pretty much the same way as they did when they came in. I will admit that, from that time on, whenever you heard a dirty joke, racial slur, gay bashing comment or sexual innuendo, it was generally prefaced by, "Well, this isn't very diverse, but..." |
The purpose isn't to change people's minds above homosexuality -- it takes a lot more than one or two sessions to make people rethink what they've been thinking their entire lives. The purpose is to make sure they realize how inappropriate behavior like that is, how it negatively reflects on the Greek system and could possibly even get them warned by nationals, and to bring to their attention that there are "people like that" in the Greek system.
Plus, at the shallowest level, it makes it LOOK like the Greek system is doing something to counteract the prejudice, whether it's working or not. |
Quote:
I guess I'm just pretty tired of "sensitivity training." Not that I have a solution for the problem myself. |
Sigh...here we go again.
We can't blame this on alcohol consumption. I have been six sheets to the wind...and I STILL know not to call anyone the N or the F word! I was reading in the Advocate about homophobia and Greek Life. Saying this as a Greek, fraternities and sororities are often a hotbed of homophobia (please don't act like you didn't know). What the article mentioned, that I didn't know, was that there are a few national fraternities that have added to their bylaws that they do not discriminate against homosexuals, but a national sorority has yet to do the same thing. Sensitivity training--and sponsoring an event with a LGBTQ organization on campus--is probably the best thing that they can do to improve their image. I just know that my campus, for better or for worse, would not tolerate this behavior. |
After I graduated, I was amazed at how many people came out that were in fraternities while I was in college. There were five guys just in my chapter. One of my closest brothers came out and started telling me just who in the Greek system was gay. I was really surprised. They basically had this whole gay Greek underground thing going on with parties and everything and I was totally oblivious! Most of the gay men in my chapter and others were some of the most dedicated and involved people at Ball State in the late 80s-early 90s.
To shift gears, I was very proud of my Greek Council, they voted to recognize a colony of Delta Lambda Phi (a national fraternity for gay, bi, and progressive men) at SIUE. I think that makes us the first in Illinois! |
Quote:
www.tridelta.org Adrienne (PNAM-2003) :) |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Adrienne (PNAM-2003) :) |
Quote:
The IFC at my Alma Mater, Ohio University, was the first in the country to recognize Delta Lambda Phi as a member. |
Quote:
Like you, I don't have the solution either. But I suspect that the only answer lies in not learing about gay people but rather in knowing and building respectful relationships (even if they are not friendships) with gay people. With that in mind, it seems that Greeks might make a lot more headway if they voluntarily undertake some projects and activities that call on them to know and work with some gay groups. Just a thought. |
Many will see sensitivity training as "just for show," but it will at least look like the Greek system is making some sort of effort -- much better than doing nothing at all.
I don't know how much more the suggestion of "forming relationships with homosexuals" will accomplish, either. If undertaken voluntarily, only those who are already comfortable with homosexuality will volunteer -- and what would be the point of that? If forced, it will just lead to backlash, those being forced to do it will get angry, and it could possibly induce more negative situations, such as a particularly stupid fraternity boy calling a gay man a "f*g" to his face. I'd definitely try to avoid setting up that kind of a situation . . . |
Like I said, I don't have all the answers here. You're right -- you can't force relationships, nor can you force opinion changes. But fraternities and sororities can decide that, as groups, it is in their best interests that they engage as groups in activities that will provide an opportunity for such relationships to be formed.
And I'm sorry, but I disagree on the sensitivity training. I think most people will see it as show, and therefore it will not look like the Greek system is making any effort (i.e., an effort undertaken only for show is not a real effort). Not really better than doing nothing, because it pretty much is the equivalent of doing nothing. If participants don't take it seriously, it can be worse than doing nothing, because too many people will say "But we took care of that problem; we did sensitivity training" and will act like the problem is solved. But that's just my opinion. |
I am seriously playing devil's advocate here:
These people at this event have the right to freedom of speech. It may offend others, hurt their feelings and make them feel degraded, but nevertheless they can say what they want, when they want, by our constitution. That is why the KKK is allowed to hold their rallies and say what they say! Does that make what they say right? No, but it is their right. Now, if it was the guys up on stage complaining, I could understand because it was an attack against them (verbally) but the students that are offended are the gay students. By the way- QUEER is not a PC term for a homosexual person. |
Quote:
|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Munchkin03 I was reading in the Advocate ........ was that there are a few national fraternities that have added to their bylaws that they do not discriminate against homosexuals, but a national sorority has yet to do the same thing. I believe (an I could be wrong, but...) the reason that it took soroities longer then fraternities to add the "non discrimintory" clause is because women didn't feel this was happening as much in soroities... I know we've had lesbians in my chapter and it doesn't bother me at all. And actually I think for the most part, women are more accepting of homosexuality...now, before the guys attack me, I'm not saying guys CAN'T be accepting of it, there are just fewer that are- it's not a slam, it's in their nature... |
What I find really interesting is that to my kids (two girls and one boy), homosexuality just isn't an issue. Their gay friends are just that...friends.
|
Quote:
There is actually a very interesting bit of research in an article that was done that talks about the leadership in fraternities and sororities and gay/lesbian/bisexual members. What the study basically discovered a few interesting facts that will be replicated in follow up studies hopefully soon: "Thus, a total of approximately 5 - 6% of the chapter membership was known by the respondents to be gay/bisexual. The women reported knowing with certainty that an average of 2.9 fellow members were lesbian/bisexual, with an average chapter size of 81, meaning that a total of approximately 3 - 4% of the chapter membership was known to be lesbian or bisexual. The actual percentages of lesbigay members would, of course, be higher, to include those others not known with certainty by the respondents to be lesbigay." "The data collected suggests that lesbigay students join fraternities and sororities for reasons similar to those one would expect from a sample of heterosexual students. The top three reasons listed were (1) friendship and camaraderie, (2) social activities, and (3) a support group and sense of belonging. " "One area where lesbigay fraternity/sorority members appear to differ from their heterosexual peers is in chapter leadership. Over 80% of the men and over 60% of the women had held at least one of the following executive committee positions in their chapter: president, vice president, secretary, treasurer, new member educator, rush chair and social chair. Over 20% of the men had served as president of their chapter, although only 6% of the women had served as president. " "Over 70% of the respondents, indicated that they had encountered homophobic or heterosexist attitudes within their chapter, usually in the form of derogatory jokes or comments. Homophobia was also frequently evidenced in membership selection. If a rushee was rumored or perceived to be gay or lesbian, the chapter was likely to summarily vote against offering the rushee a bid to join. Likewise if a pledge was discovered or believed to be gay or lesbian, the chapter was inclined to dismiss the pledge. More often than not, the initiated lesbigay member(s) would voice no opposition to the discrimination, fearing that to do so might cause other members to question their motivation. One man even wrote, "A rushee was blackballed because of suspected homosexuality. I was one of the three who blackballed him. Five years later I met this individual again at a bar, and we have been lovers for eight years now (and going strong)!" You can find the study at length at: http://www.lambda10.org/research_study.htm The Lambda 10 site is a website for individuals who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, and includes many resources, articles, and a list of names of individuals who are "out." It is also interesting to note that there are also a number of fraternity and sorority advisors on college campuses that are gay, lesbian or bisexual....so the correlation of active participation as an undergraduate may continue even further and development of a stron alumni base for organizations. |
Quote:
|
Devil's advocate:
Quote:
So, how do they get there? Knowing U of C fairly well, I'm pretty confident that if those guys had yelled a racist epithet like "kike" they would have become absolute pariahs on campus and might well have been kicked out of their houses. Not coincidentally, they didn't do that -- they attacked others in a way that's more socially acceptable. Personally, I've kind of lost confidence in diversity training. You're not going to change people's thoughts overnight, but you can change people's behavior. And behavior is most effectively modified through reward and punishment. Using hate speech to attack fellow students should have swift consequences. These guys should be punished -- if not by the school, then socially. If sororities refused to mix with that frat till they kicked those guys out...I have a feeling this wouldn't be a problem next year. Sheesh. You'd think that at least in Division III, schools could find football recruits who aren't Neanderthals. Oh well. Ivy |
What is more interesting, is that these people who are going around putting on these Seminars are more than likely being paid via a grant from the Federal Government or a very strong intrest Group who donates $$$$$$$$ for such things!
Now, My Question is? Should I go to find out why I should like Brother Rod, Brother John, Brother Akmed, Brother Grey Feather, or Brother Wang because they are different in color, relegion or what the hell ever when I already do?? Do I as a tity whity decide to dislike them because I was told to like them because that was the Proper thing to do! NO NO NO, I like them because I have come to know them and find out, Da, they are real people! That is the main problem people! I get to know my customers and find that they become friends also! I see this everyday on GC and folks we are a microcosim of life right here! Let me count the people who I dislike on GC------------------------------------------------------------------Damn, none came to mind! Go F***** figure! Do we argue, yes, do we fight, yes, so just what in the hell does that tell you! Are we a big family Well, Da, YES! Thank Goodnes for this Site! I have met so many Fantastic People on this site and have talked to 2 of them today!!! Love to tell you who they were but it was a member of a Fraternity and a member of a Soroity! Both Great People!:cool: Get over self importance for tomarrow you may die! Boring to do that!;) Left overs again tonight! But good left overs! Look back on previous sites!:) Yes Ladies of G C I can COOK! It aint ALL out of a Pan!:cool: |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:11 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.