Not allowed to wear letters
 

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Just curious...
 

...how enforceable is this "rule" and what is the supposed punishment for infractions?

Not only does it seem like a stupid rule, but you're right that it may be a freedom of speech issue as well ....

Public school? Is it a volunteer program? Is it at-will-employment? I guess if it was any kind of job where they set your hours they could simply cut your hours back to zero...

We have the same rule on campus. The TOUR GUIDE can't say anything... But brothers can strategically be placed along the route:D

it's only freshmen
 

Being the Rush Chair of my fraternity I personally feel that freshmen make poor rushees... a large percentage of them will not accept their bids because their parents say no. Upperclassmen (sophmore and up) are generally much more independant and will join regardless of parental funds, and are much better suited to be good pledges and brothers since they are more involved and established on campus. Plus most people that drop out of school do so freshman year. we don't lke loosing brothers.

However, this does not discredit the fact that they are a HUGE pool from which to draw, and loosing this makes it really hard for greek organizations to recruit adequate numbers.

Orientation is definately too early to get them anyways. And I think it's the same here at RIT... tour guides, or volunteers at orientation aren't allowed to recruit... also IFC doesn't formally start rush 'till a few days AFTER orientation. We can however wear letters if we're just manning a booth or something. ::shrug::

Are there any sessions offered for the freshman during orientation in which clubs and organizations can inform the incoming students about their organizations? When I came to college, we had a fraternity session and a sorority session, but when we switched to deferred recruitment, those sessions were cut. At the end of welcome week, however, there is an organizational fair for all the incoming freshman and all organizations on campus.

I'm in a similar organization on my campus (tour/orientation leaders) and we're not supposed to wear anything that shows different club affiliations. I do understand this rule because they don't want us to affect the new students impressions about diff. clubs/organizations (positive or negative)... this is for most of them their first interaction w/ their new school, and they kinda want a fresh start. The difference w/ my organization is that we are allowed to mention that we're in other organizations, and let them know which one it is if they ask. Basically, they just don't want us to "push" our club/organization on them, if that makes sense? But we're not punished or anything if we talk about it...

Thank you for saying what I have always been thinking.

If campus ministry, ski club or whoever are allowed to put ads in the bags, IFC and Panhellenic should be too. But as far as ads like "Go ASA", "DKE welcomes you", absolutely not. The focus should be on going Greek, not a particular group.

I don't quite get being upset over not wearing letters - how do your orientation leaders dress? :confused: Ours usually wore business casual-type things - we certainly weren't going to wear a letter sweatshirt. Can you wear lavaliers or pins?

I think that is absolutely ridiculous!! We ALWAYS have fraternity and sorority members vying for those orientation leader positions BECAUSE it's a great opportunity to tout your organization, AND, the orientation department gets great leaders by having so many able people to choose from. Maybe offer that up to the orientation folks as a plus side for offering greeks the opportunity to promote Greek Life. We've gotten PLENTY of girls from freshmen orientation who came through recruitment and went D Phi E because their orientation leader was one, and they loved our house in turn.

go for it. connect four.

definately not
 

We're DEFINATELY NOT allowed to wear letters or state our particular greek affiliation (I know I give the tours). We're allowed to say we are greek and talk about rush or being in a sorority in general. It's funny but the organization that gives the tours is half greek and half independent!

I'd see about the possibility of IFC and Panhel putting in ads - a listing of houses, statistics like how greeks are overrepresented in campus organizations compared to their respective % of the student population, stuff like that - into the bags.

We have New Student enrollment during the summer and our NSE leaders are dressed always in red...no affiliation shown. But they include Greek Life into their skits as something you can be a part of. Because of this I don't think that NOT being able to wear letters is that big of deal.

Perhaps you could get info added into the tours. If you walk past Greek houses, just make sure all the tour guides mention that greek life is something that is available to everyone, that the stereotypes aren't true, and when Rush is. I think this is not that big of deal if to say if groups are walking by greek living units anyway, and the tour guides that don't support greek life aren't actively supporting it, just giving out more information.

I think the best way to present this to your boss is to say that it is entirely about getting information about college out to the freshmen, letting them know their full range of options when they come to your school. Withholding such information would just be like not talking about intramurals, or student government...it would be ignoring a significant population of students. The most important thing is that you have to play this up as not promoting Greek life, just letting people know it exists.

As for hendrixski saying freshmen aren't good rushees...depends entirely on where you go to school. In some places (like my school) freshmen are 98% of rushees, and typically we have found that sophomores are far less likely to take bids b/c they have been on campus for a year and are more likely to feel that they don't need a fraternity since they did fine the previous year without one.

If all the other organizations on your campus are allowed to put things in the orientation bags, then I see no problem with IFC, NPC, NPHC and whatever other greek councils you have submitting something on behalf of all the organizations that fall underneath it...welcoming them to the school and making them aware that these organizations exist, no necessarily for recruitment purposes. One way of pushing the idea might be for the Greek councils to submit a pamphlet on the risks of drinking and driving or on alcohol awareness (things that the school can't really say no to because of the positive reinforcement they want to promote).

On a side note, why is it perfectly acceptable for the athletic coaches to scout high school students for their teams just because they "bring money to the school" and yet, Greek organizations can't even make their presence known? hmm...

represent
 

I am not quite sure about the rules on my campus regarded whether our not our orientation leaders (we call them aop leaderS) are allowed to wear letters or even mention it. However, I have noticed some ways that even with out wearing letters you can help greek life and your organization. There is a girl in my house who was last year one of the head leaders of aop. I am not quite sure if she wore her letters at all, im assuming she did not only because the aop leaders usualy wear clothing during that time to denote them as part of the aop program and willing to help. Anyway, even being a part of this program is a really good thing for your house. I do know for a fact that there were many girls who came through our house who just remembered my sisters face from aop and remembered how cool she was and that was a definite help. So even if you cant wear your letters in the end you are still representing your org. and it could just come back to help you if you make a positive impression on the freshmen. good luck!

archangel,
i don't know if this is helpful, but... our orientation leaders would always try and remember some of the guys from the tour sessions and then after orientation they would go look them up. the frosh were usually impressed that they knew an upperclassmen (other than their RA, your probably the first non-frosh thats bothered talking to them). RA's are good for this too. i can't tell you how many guys i know joined a certain house b/c their orientatioon leader or their RA brought them around "the guys" or to a party.
second point... if freshman can't pledge 1st semester it doesn't mean you can't rush them. all our pledges this semester pretty much knew where they were going b4 christmas break.

i think it's really strange, and unfair, that at some places schools can give out info at orientation for some groups and not others. it should be an all or none type of thing. we have deferred rush as well, but that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to reveal your Greek affiliation at orientation or any other time. every year, water bottles are given to all the freshmen girls that have the sororities lettters on them. this year, any Greek who helped out with moving people in was allowed to wear their letters, and there was information on Greek life given out at orientation. if freshmen are allowed to learn about all the other groups they can get involved in, i see no reason why Greeks can't show their spirit and get the word out even if rush doesn't happen until spring. and wearing letters or giving out info is not recruitment, it's exposure and info. i think some things definitiely need to get changed!

I am going to be an Orientation Leader this summer at my school, and we also wear a blue polo shirt as a uniform, so there isn't much leeway for wearing letters. The coordinators encourage us to share what we are involed in, whether it be Greek Life, Student Government, RHA, etc.

As far as the Freshman Move-In, greeks last year for the first time were asked to help. We had a particular shirt to wear, and couldn't wear letters. However, one chapter did, as well as stuff rush information for their chapter inside of closets and the like. This stunt landed them in some hot water and set back our relations with Residence Life for possibly a very long time.

We have the same kiind of setup at my University, and all of the Greeks find that it works just fine.

I guess I'll explain the situation at Florida Tech.

Orientation counselors are allowed to be Greek. The woman who runs Orientation is actually the Greek Advisor. But no one is allowed to wear letters on campus until Friday, for Meet the Greeks. Orientation counselors are allowed to wear their letters too at that point. Greeks do help out at Greek Move-in though, but they wear specific shirts with everyone's letters on it. You can't say which group you're with, but you're allowed to encourage the freshmen and transfer students to go Greek.

I don't see how this is a violation of your free speech. The emphasis is on getting the freshman used to their new college environment, and I don't think it's outrageous that they ask you to put your Greek affiliation aside for a week. The freshman don't have time to be worrying about being Greek... they have placement tests to take and all that other crap.

We use orientation week to set up for Recruitment anyway. We work on it for several hours a day, and those of us who are Orientation Counselors and Greeks have to do that on top of doing all the b**** work for the Orientation staff.

I don't understand how you think your right to Freedom of Speech has been violated. The first element to a 1st Amendment violation is State Action. That means that it has to be the government restricting your speech or an entity fulfilling a traditional governmental purpose. It is hard to argue that a private religous university providing orientation to its own incoming students is fulfilling a governmental purpose.

Re Free Speech
 

A rule like this almost certainly would not implicate the first amendement even at a public university, which is a state actor.

All the Greeks I'm familiar with agree in advance to follow their local IFC/Panhel's local rules when they join. If you never made any kind of agreement with your chapter that you were going to follow the rules, and you're at a public university, then you may have an argument, but seems like at most chapters, you have to agree to follow the rules when you pledge. An agreement like that is a voulntary relinquishment of free speech in whatever narrow areas are affected.

Ivy, JD

If you attend a private school, you really don't have a case. If you were at a public school things would be different. http://www.dke.org/quarterly4.html

I can sympathize with the frustration of not being able to wear your letters. Certain positions on our campus were not allowed to wear their letters or have any identifying Greek symbols visible (RA's couldn't even have it in view in their room). The argument that was always made is that these people could place undo influence on people. For example, an RA could say, join AAA and you can have extra freedom in the dorm. Unfortunately it is the fact that some people will abuse the power they have to help their organization so rules had to be put in place. On our campus it went so far that before and during recruitment, RA's could not wear their letters or attend recruitment events. It was a frustrating situation because they wanted to be part of the activities but couldn't.

Orientation leaders were not able to display their affiliation or discuss the particulars of their fraternity/sorority during freshman orientation. However, after the official orientation phase was over, all rules were off. When they were giving tours to perspective students, they could wear their letters and discuss their groups freely. The idea of strategically placed members is also key. Several groups would strategically place members of their organization on the "tour route" in their letters and the tour guide would say hello and appear to have a friendly "visit" with them. It would usually be along the lines of, "are you coming to the meeting tonight?" or "do you have a date for formal yet?" It was always something to point out they were a member of that group without the guide ever having to say they were. When the freshman asked if they belonged they would say yes but that they were unable to discuss specifics about any Greek organization during orientation but they would be happy to talk to them about it after the week ended. It always proved to be VERY helpful.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

Jen
<>Alpha Delta Pi <>

I personally think you are taking this way too seriously. Just suck it up, and wear "Go Greek" shirts for a bit instead of your letters. It's really not that big of a deal.

ADPiViolets - I think that is part of the problem, they are not even able to wear Go Greek Shirts. The way I understand it is that they are not able to identify themselves in any way as a member of a fraternity yet other (non-greek) organizations don't have those restrictions. That is where the "unfair" advantage comes in.

<>Jen<>
Alpha Delta Pi

Okay, that's different. I retract my response then.