Botched Transplant
 

"Jesica's family had paid a smuggler to bring them from their small town near Guadalajara, Mexico, to the United States so the teenager could get the medical care, relatives have said. "

What are the chances the family will still sue the hospital? And be able to fly/drive back with bunches-o-bucks!

Can some knowledgeable legal person give a reasonable explanation how an illegal immigrant could sue someone for services they might not have been entitled to in the first place?

How did Duke expect to get financial restitution from the family if all had gone well?

Just curious.

don't know how they can sue if they were illegal..but they most certainly have a case..as for payment of services, i believe they had a benefactor

Yes, they had a benefactor who raised the money for them and they were legitimately on the donor list.

The staff at Duke didn't apologize but they did say it was a regrettable situation that the little girl died and that they feel for the family.

You can't ask for better than that can you?

this happened in boston, very close to where i am from... :( i feel so bad for that little girl... they completely changed their procedures because of this incident.

This is really sad... I felt bad when I heard on the news that the girl passed away :(

I don't understand why they shouldn't be "entitled" to getting medical services... I just think that no matter where you are from you should always have the right to live..even if it means going to another country to get medical attention. Many people come here to get medical services... and I would guess it's mostly because their health care isn't as great in their home country.

Please don't take this the wrong way...

But when people such as Jessica's family come here (illegally, might I add) and feel "entitled" to healthcare, and then recieve healthcare, that raises the insurance and hospital costs for all of us. Somebody, after all, has to foot the bill.

In Jessica's case, however, I think someone mentioned they had a benefactor?

But in any case, what makes somebody more entitled than another person? There are many people who legitimately pay for insurance and healthcare... why shouldn't they just feel "entitled?" Heck, let's just all stop paying for health insurance and hospital costs since somebody else will do it. Let's become "entitled."

XOXO,
Annie.

Shark In Skirt, I can totally understand that.. I was unaware they were illegal immigrants.. I thought they were just people from another country who came here for medical attention only. (Kind of like those Siamese twins from another country who came to the U.S. to be separated, and after it was over, they paid [whether it be from a benefactor or however else]) and went back to their country. Our health care in this country is amazing with knowledgable doctors and technology so I can see why people like those would want to be operated on here.

Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part :)

I read a sad statistic this morning that 16 people die every week while waiting on the heart/lung transplant list. This girl got 2 sets.

So yeah, everyone sympathizes with this girl's family. I'm thinking about the families of the other 2 tax paying, fully insured US citizens who died last week because the organs they were waiting for went instead to an illegal immigrant.

For the amount of money I pay in taxes and insurance premiums over the course of my entire life, someone can crawl over the border, fork over the cash for the operation and take a life-saving organ away from me, or my family?!? Bullshit.

wptw

Amen.

XOXO,
Annie.

Amen! As usual, wptw makes a good point.

Real.

Not to be a bleeding heart troublemaker here, but how about if we try this: how about taking the few seconds it takes to write a post on greekchat about how much we think it sucks that an illegal immigrant got a transplant that could've gone to a tax paying American and instead doing something to encourage other tax paying Americans to become organ donors? It's not this girl's fault that there aren't enough organs; it's the fault of those who can't be bothered to sign a donor card.

I'm not familiar with the facts of this case, but IMHO, if somebody at the hospital screwed up, he or she should be held accountable. I'm not sure I understand what people are saying here -- are you saying that because the victim was an illegal immigrant then they have no recourse? They should take their lumps and go away? Isn't that blaming the victim (which in my view is NEVER appropriate)?

Illegal immigrants shouldn't get benefits at the expense of paying customers (citizens).

Everyone should donate their organs if they can.

Medical professionals who screw up should be held accountable.

Those 3 things are not mutually exclusive (even for bleeding hearts ;) )

wptw

I'm sure that if your father, mother, brother, sister, etc. needed a transplant, you'd feel differently about being an upstanding, tax-paying citizen who's money had just gone towards giving TWO SETS of organs to an illegal immigrant.

God forbid that any of your relatives ever needs a transplant. You're right, there are not enough to go around, people absolutely should sign donor cards. However, for the organs that are available, they really need to go to the citizens or legal aliens who need, and deserve, them.

XOXO,
Annie.

While I sympathize with the family over the loss of a child, what really appalled me about this entire situation was that the parents refused to donate any of Jesica's organs although several were still viable.

I realize that the parents are probably angry, but if your child has been the recipient of not one but TWO transplants, please don't deny other parents the chance to see their child grow up because of bitterness over your situation. I thought it was very ungracious of them.

1. Certainly the hospital screwed up (f.u.b.a.r. doesn't quite cut it here), so they should be held accountable... but!

2. Here in the real world, we have limited resources with which to work. Tax paying US citizens finance them, and a good portion of them go to those who contribute nothing to the system from which they so happily withdraw resources. My point is that one shouldn't be able to "withdraw funds from an account into which no deposits in your name have been made" as it were. Granted I'm coming at this from a typical Republican standpoint, but honestly we should be realistic about this kind of thing. After all, of what value is citizenship if citizenship provides no benefits that anyone else can't get?

Were they in this country illegally? Is that really the issue? The Shah of Iran came to the US for medical assistance 25 years ago as have many other wealthy, prominent people because the US medical system has the reputation of being among the best in the world. There are organizations that travel abroad to give medical help to people who are ill. Sometimes they bring gravely ill people to the US for help. I see nothing wrong with compassion for the ill regardless of their nationality or economic status.

My problem isn't the nationality of this girl. My problem is that the medical system f---ed up so badly when they gave her the wrong blood type organs. This is a stupid mistake that should have been caught. Someone else could have benefitted from those organs. It was a waste, and it cost this girl her life.

I think some of us are speaking more generally than in this specific case, in which Jessica did indeed have a benefactor who helped raise money to pay the bills (although I wonder exactly how many of the bills were left for taxpayers to pay). I'm sure the Shah of Iran managed to pay the hospital for its services.

Yes, the United States does have the best medical institutions, just as we have some of the best educational institutions... want to access them?

Then, fill out the immigration forms, get a Green Card, then get your citizenship, pay your taxes, and voila, they're yours.


XOXO,
Annie.

I'm with Valkryie here. Instead of complaining, use that anger and frustration you have and become organ donors! To make things even better, join the bone marrow registry too! It takes 5 minutes to become an organ donor. My heart may be bleeding, but it will go to good use after my death. ;)

From what I've heard, the family had a benefactor--so the illegal immigrant status wouldn't matter at all unless they were requesting Medicare/Medicaid. This is not uncommon for people from other countries, to have a wealthy person, either from here or their home country to pay their expenses. This happened with the conjoined twins who were separated last year. Going to another country for medical treatment happens all over--Americans do it just as often as those from other nations. In these cases, it's not about CITIZENSHIP as much as it is about MONEY. Green is green, no matter where the person who gives it to you is from.

Mad that they used two sets of organs on her because she's not a citizen? What about when they gave Mickey Mantle, who suffered from alcohol-related cirhrossis of the liver, two livers back-to-back? :confused: So, it's better for someone who willfully damaged their own organs to have double transplants because they're American, than it is for a paying non-American suffering from a congenital disorder to have the opportunity to live?

Cream and Munchkin,

The difference is that the Shah of Iran, King Hussein of Jordan, the conjoined twins, etc. didn't receive their medical care in lieu of someone else. Fortunately, in most cases we have enough resources to treat both the rich imports and the working class homegrown for what ails them. So treating the Shah didn't deprive another needy person of quality care. And I'm fine with that, as long as they pay their bill.

Transplants are obviously the exception because they are in very limited supply. When you give an organ to one person, you effectively take it away from the next person on the list.

There's a big difference.

wptw

I thought that the organ transplant list was international. Maybe that is the bone marrow donor list. :confused: I'll do a google search.

I can see your point about limited number of organs. It is supply and demand. Unfortunately, the demand outweighs the supply. A way to combat that is to be willing to donate your own organs. Most people don't want to think about things like their sudden, premature death and their organs. I'm reading about organ donation. It's very informative.

Ah, now if it were an international transplant list, I would feel differently about the whole thing. Then she has as much right to it as anyone.

But...
If you're legitimately on the transplant list, AND you have a sponsor, then when the organ shows up you just travel here on a special visa for medical care. You just get on a plane. You don't pay someone to smuggle you across the border unless you're trying to circumvent the system.

wptw

*How do you guys know that she was not put on the waiting list before she got here and decided to come here for the operation?
*also, since implants are very expensive, some people remain on the list because their insurance will not cover the entire procedure. hospitals are a business to so they want their $. It Jessica's family had the money then she was "entitled" to have the surgery.
Also, i think that hospital should get a lot more than they will as far as "punishment". It is about an hour down the street from me here in NC and the motto say be careful if you go into Duke becuase you might not come out alive. That is teriible because it is also one of the best hospitals in NC.
I am glad her surgeon took the blame but he won't apologize for his mistake.

If she had just died and had been given the right organs in the first palce, would it be such a big deal?

The whole situation is just sick from several standpoints.

To bring up a point...For all of you who complaining about paying for the medical care of this girl....what about the THOUSANDS of other people (immigrants and citizens) who have NO insurance who come to indigent hospitals (meaning the hospital can not refuse treatment based on ability--or inability--to pay) for medical care...both routine and emergency??? Believe me when I say they drive up the cost of healthcare just as much. I see it all the time...the hospital I work at is an indigent facility. Are you saying that the only people who deserve to be treated anywhere are those with insurance?? It's just a question but it seems this is how many of you feel...please correct me if I'm wrong. (And for the record, I'm not a bleeding heart...I'm just trying to make sense of the discussion).

Good point ladybug. But what pisses me off is that after all that rigamarole, they wouldn't donate her viable organs. What the huh???! The least they could do is help others after they had been helped soooo much.
Blockbuster should be in charge of the INS. Why, you ask? People come to and fro illegally all the time, overstay their visa, etc. If your movie is even a couple days late be damn sure that Blockbuster will be all over you to get it back (plus fees). I do resent that they came here illegally to get treatment (if they were legal I'd have no problem) and also took 2 sets of organs that theoretically could have saved the lives of 4 or more people. One of my friends died after a lung lobe transplant (the guys that donated were voluntary live donors) and since then I've really pushed everyone I know to donate anything they can. I didn't consider those to be a waste because a) the people who donated didn't have to die or even be harmed and b) her folks are legal, upstanding, tax paying citizens w/ insurance. She battled cystic fibrosis for all 20 years of her life, and when she did die, her parents offered up anything viable to help other families. How noble is that?

ZphiB, it’s not about who pays for the procedure. It’s already established she had a sponsor who was taking care of the bill. So try to let that go for the moment.

If the girl had cancer, we probably wouldn’t be so upset because there’s plenty of cancer doctors and cancer drugs here in the US to go around. If you’ve got money, then crawl fly or swim over and feel free to contribute those dollars to our economy.

It’s not about that.

It’s about 1 heart being available and 2 people needing it. Who do you give it to? The guy who played by all the rules his whole life and contributed his share to the community? Or the girl who never contributed a single thing but managed to get her name on the list and managed to sneak in illegally?

Do you really not see a difference between the cancer scenario and the transplant scenario?

To ladybug’s point…
For the sake of a strong society, I am willing to contribute some of my tax dollars to help pay for healthcare for people who can’t afford it. But when people sneak into this country, never contribute a dime to the pot, THEN show up and want free medical care, you bet that pisses me off.

wptw

I am going to add my $.02 on this topic...I have had my organ donor card signed ever since I got my driver's license. My best friend in high school was killed right before my senior year in high school started. Plus I am a Paramedic. (Just some background as to why I feel so strongly about this issue...)

-She traveled to North Carolina and was put on the organ donor list from Mexico. I had not heard that she traveled here illegally, or how her bills were being paid. She was not a citizen of the US. (this has been established by previous posters here on GC.)

-When the heart and lungs could not be matched by the regular matching standards of UNOS, the started calling hospitals and offering the organs. Duke was called. This is where the error took place. The surgeon took the organs for Jessica without confirming that they were the "right" blood-type. Therefore, Duke is placing additional steps in place to prevent another tragedy from happening. They didn't realize till the transplant was almost completed that the error had happened. In some cases, transplants of different blood types can be done ( BUT it is VERY rare!)

-Realize that only 11 heart and lung transplants total were done last year in the US, 4 under the age of 13 total were done in the US last year. Jessica received TWO in just over two weeks. This is incredibly odds. It is a sad outcome what has happened to her.

-To declare brain death, it takes two physicians that are not involved with the case. Not to mention extensive tests. It is not decided very easily and it is not done "lightly." Unfortunatly, it also not something that you can get a second opinion on.

-I am sure that the surgeons and anyone involved in Jessica's case from the nurses to the physicians to the spokespeople at Duke University are VERY sorry that this has happened. Plus I am sure they have expressed this to Jessica's family. They are angry, sad, hurt, etc. I don't doubt there will be some major type of settlement in this case. Not to mention many money hungry malpractice lawyers banging down the doors to represent the family. We will probably see a book deal/movie deal for this. (Sorry, I am a bit angered at this point...:mad:)

-All in all, it is a very sad point. Everyone has lost in this tragedy. In the end though, SIGN YOUR DONOR CARDS!! People can only benefit from organ donation. You will see tighter standards within UNOS.

Okay, I am getting off my soapbox. I am sorry for the length of my post. I am sorry for the rambling. I am sure there is more that I want to say that I have missed. Or stuff I repeated.

sorry mptw, i can't let go of the $ issue because even a person who has insurance and follows the rules may not get a transplant if their insurance won't pay for it. it has to be payed for by someone, a lot of the times with the money up front.
coming from the transplant situation and the cancer situation, i've seen both. so whatever you say. if a person cannot afford a major surgery to save their life it does NOT mean they shouldn't get it. and if a person follows all the rules in life it does not mean that they should get a transplant automatically. the doctor's really wasted the organs because someone could have used them before they gave her the wrong ones.

as far as no using her organs, the doctors said at first they were not any good so if I were her family i wouldn't have donated them either.be real. if you are trying to give up something and they say it is no good then you would keep it too.

Yeah, because taking more money away from the hospital which has saved countless lives is really going to help the situation. Yes, her family may be hurt, angry, sad, etc., but they're also greedy and selfish as hell if they end up filing a suit.

XOXO,
Annie.

Right or wrong.
Illegal or Legal.
Immigrant or not.
I can get passed all of that, I'm all about helping people in their time of need.

Regardless if two sets of organs went to this girl. What troubles me and really actually pissed me off is the fact that the girl's parents wouldn't donate any of her organs that could still be donated after she passed away. TWO other people at least gave her the chance to have their organs, how could the not return the favor? They wanted organs, but they wouldn't allow them to be taken? man PHUCK that,

phuck that.....

I imagine that her liver and kidneys were extremely taxed by the illness that she had since birth, and were not of "transplant quality". If her organs were in transplantable condition, and her family chose not to donate, that's another issue entirely. But, I think that if she was in critical condition for such a long time, those major organs could not be used.

I wouldn't be too surprised if Duke decides to settle out of court. Regardless of the "greediness" of the family, the staff made a horrible horrible mistake that was based out of negligence. We can be damned sure this won't happen again.

I am sure her organs were too damaged to donate to anyone else. Her corneas are another story. Her families reply on donation did anger me on that subject.

I do see Duke settling out of court. But I see those money hungry malpractice lawyers demanding a ridiculous amount of money. GRRRR!!!

:(

I am just curious-how do ya'll feel about prisoners receiving transplants at tax payers expense? (I can tell you I don't agree with it:mad: )-let the discussion begin......

Read this.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030225_675.html

None of her organs were in any condition to donate.

Just a small side note here on the process of donating organs and matching donor to recipient. (In one of my previous positions I was a data specialist in the Bone Marrow Transplant department and played a part in monitoring these patients and their grafts--much more complicated than "solid" organs.)

UNOS is set up much like the NMDP (National Marrow Donor Program) when it comes to recording tissue types of donors to recipients. Bottom line, the surgeon doesn't do it. He/She has nothing to do with the matching and confirmation process. There are at least a dozen people between the matching organization (in this case, UNOS) and the hospital where the recipient is being treated. The surgeon relies on those people to get blood types, HLA antigens straight before he implants the graft. At my institution we have no less than 5 people involved in prepping stem cell grafts plus data/research personnel confirming the match before the cells ever get to the patient.

The surgeon who implanted these organs had no way of knowing they were the wrong type. It's not his job. So he's not the one who should be apologizing for this botched job. There should be at least a dozen heads soon to roll both at UNOS and the hospital. I know at MDACC, no one is "just" fired for a mistake of this magnitude. (I'm also not aware of it happening even once after several thousand grafts, either.)

If I didn't cover anything in the general sense on this one, feel free to post or IM on the matching process.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003) - and proud LifeGift and NMDP potential donor.
:D

Medical malpractice lawyers are not money hungry. As long as there are doctors who make medical mistakes, they will keep medical malpractice lawyers in business.

Cream, thank you for saying that! What I think people often to fail to realize is that attorneys don't just file lawsuits on their own -- they file them because somebody has hired them to do so.

Someone earlier mentioned that the family members were greedy if they file a lawsuit (I'm too lazy to go back and find the quote). I think that's a pretty harsh thing to say. I'm guessing that most of you have no idea what it's like to lose a family member due to a medical mistake. I don't either, but I would never presume to judge a family member who decides to seek some type of compensation in such a situation. I've always thought that if someone's life is seriously affected by the error of a doctor, she deserves some type of compensation to make her life easier. What if, for example, a woman is a stay at home mom with four kids and her husband made only enough money for them to scrape by every month before he was killed as a result of doctor error. Is she greedy when she files a lawsuit?

Amen.

I think it's ridiculous how many people here think it should be up to them whether some little girl lives or dies. Regardless of the circumstances of the case, the point is that she is a human being and deserves just as much as any of the rest of you even if she wasn't American, etc. etc. And yes, it is unfortunate that they wasted two transplants on her, and yes, it is unfortunate that none of her organs can be donated now, and yes, it will be unfortunate if the family files a lawsuit -- however, life isn't fair.

It just creeps me out that so many people would rather save money on their taxes even if it meant that there are people dying because of it.

And yes, I will fully admit to being a bleeding heart liberal, if that wasn't clear enough by the above.

My sentiments exactly.