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-   -   U. of Alabama seeks help in desegregating Greek life (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=29940)

navane 02-23-2003 02:22 PM

U. of Alabama seeks help in desegregating Greek life
 
Hello fellow GCers.

After reading the thread regarding "The Machine" at the University of Alabama, I was reminded of a letter I read last year.

As a university administrator by profession, I am a member of the National Association of Student Personnel Administrators (NASPA). In NASPA, I belong to three sub-areas called "knowledge communities": international education, new professionals and fraternity/sorority affairs.

Some time around fall 2002 I came across a letter from the University of Alabama Faculty Senate which was forwarded to the members of the fraternity/sorority affairs knowledge community. Unfortunately, I do not know when the letter was authored. However, this is not that important. What's important is that, in this letter, they seek the help of university administrators such as myself to affect change in certain greek life practices. The practices they are referring to point largely to NPC organizations for women.

I wanted to post this here because I thought it might make interesting reading. If there are any of you who think that the university doesn't care about the current situation, this letter proves otherwise. However, I am not convinced that changing these practices will help at a campus like U. of A. - I think they have bigger issues to deal with. I mean, abolishing references won't make a big difference if few minorities go through recuitment to start with. At any rate, you may read for yourself.

Thanks!

I have posted the text of the letter below.

.....Kelly :)


--------

Letter from the University of Alabama Faculty Senate to the Fraternity and Sorority Affairs Knowledge Community:

Dear Members of the NASPA Knowledge Community for Greek Life:

Our University has been working diligently to assist students in efforts to desegregate our Greek system and to overcome dated stereotypes that often unfairly stigmatize Southern campuses. While desegregation efforts have born some fruit and demonstrate much promise, they have not yet brought a level of integration that would allow us to claim that we have truly inclusive Greek organizations. We further recognize that our integration efforts will always have limited results without the support of national organization such as the National Association for Student Personnel Administrators (NASPA). Since NASPA’s Knowledge Community for Greek Life is most familiar with the policies and practices of fraternity and sorority membership recruitment, we are writing to request your help.

We are especially concerned over two common selection practices:

1. requiring reference letters in order to receive an invitation to join a greek organization and

2. giving selection preference to legacies.

Because African Americans have been historically excluded from white sororities and fraternities in the South, the probability that an African American rushee is a legacy is miniscule and the network of former African-American greeks from which to request letters of recommendations is almost nonexistent. Moreover, because segregation in the Greek system often mirrors broader societal segregation, qualified African American rushees are often not exposed to white greek alumni who could write them letters of recommendation. Thus, a rather inbred system seems to self-perpetuate.

Interestingly, personnel research demonstrates that recommendations and references are two of the poorest predictors of future performance. Added to the fact that requiring references and giving legacies preference impede the diversification of Greek organizations, we would greatly appreciate efforts of the Knowledge Community for Greek Life to:

* persuade national greek offices to deemphasize or terminate reference requirements

* inform chapter membership chairs that references should be used for introduction purposes only and not to exclude prospective members without references

* encourage national offices to critically examine the impact of giving legacies preference and to adopt appropriate modifications to this practice so that worthy minorities are not denied admission to sororities or fraternities

* work with national greek offices and host institutions in making diversity a genuine priority

* assist in educating alumni in the need for new strategies to attract diverse students.

In preparing students for work environments and societal structures that are increasingly multiracial, multicultural, and international, we feel that membership in diverse organizations in their college experience is essential. We also feel that integrating our Greek system will help minority students realize the equality, dignity, and free choice called for in the moral frameworks shaping our country, states, and university. However, we do not believe that we can achieve a diversity that transcends tokenism and persists over time without your assistance. Through addressing problems with Greek reference systems and systems of legacy preference, we feel that you can play a critical role in helping us write a new chapter in the racial history of our Greek system and university.

Thank you for your attention to these concerns.

Sincerely,

J. Norman Baldwin, Ph.D.
President, Faculty Senate

James 02-23-2003 02:55 PM

Hrmmm.

ITs odd that a University will say that recomendations and legacies should not be a factor in admissions.

Especially since they will not consider your application if you don't have said references and they are much more likely to take legacies.

As for the rest of it. Good luck changing a cultural context that leads to segregation. The Greeks are a product of their culture, they are not initiating it.

carnation 02-23-2003 03:43 PM

We've talked and talked about this issue but I feel like the number of African-Americans in historically white GLOs isn't likely to increase much--almost every AA woman I know has made no secrets of the fact that she wants to be a Delta, AKA, Sigma, or Zeta because that's all she's heard about her whole life.

We have a relatively small number of AA women on our campus and as nationals are starting to come onto the campus, I feel like the woman who's trying to bring her NPHC group will wipe me out if I try to recruit any of them for NPC sororities! She says she has a small enough number to work with anyway but it's complicated by the fact that the women have to be upperclassmen and have a certain GPA. Add to that the fact that so many of the AA women here are music majors and they live for it. Sororities? Who has time? There are 2 fantastic women in my classes whom I'd love to recruit but I've told her about them first because I want to see her dreams of bringing her GLO here realized. If they don't want NPHC, then they're fair game for NPC! Wahahahaha!

Sistermadly 02-23-2003 06:46 PM

I've said this to one of my favourite GCers, but I'l say it here for the first time:

The only way I think that any inroads toward integration of NPC sororities will happen is for NPC sororities to charter chapters at historically black colleges and universities.

Lambda Chi Alpha did it at a university that was once an HBCU but is now in the process of desegregating. Why can't an NPC group colonize at that school as well? I should also add that the school is also in the South...right Tom?

I think it's great that the administration wants to be proactive (ugh, I hate that word), and I think it's great that they realize that the legacy/recommendation presents a particular disadvantage to certain students. However, I think it's going to be quite the uphill battle to get Southern schools to let go of these traditions.

Also - if (white) NPC women see an African American (or Latina, or Indian, or Native American, or Asian) young woman in their community who is an outstanding student, and leader, don't automatically assume that she's "already made up her mind". If you're a teacher, talk to her about your organization. If you know her from church, invite her to your city's alumnae panhellenic information session for high school students. If she needs a mentor, be her mentor. Let her see a different face -- a human face -- of an NPC woman, and you just might change her mind.

The NPHC is a wonderful conference, and there are some truly amazing organizations with rich histories represented there -- but that's not to say that a minority woman isn't interested in an alternative. I was, and I have aunts, cousins, sisters, and nieces who are in NPHC sororities!

The way the system is set up now, it's almost a foregone conclusion that an African American woman will automatically join an NPHC sorority, and therefore, NPC women don't try to win over an excellent candidate. And yes, I know how tough it can be to get someone to change her mind if the NPHC is all she knows -- but I think that you're selling NPC sororities short if you just shrug your shoulders, throw up your hands and say "Oh well!" I'm curious to know, however, why a similar conclusion doesn't seem to be drawn with respect to Latinas, Asian, or Indian women?

It's up to you -- to us -- as NPC members to let minority women know that they are welcome in our organizations. Like adduncan said in another post in a different forum, eventually someone has to be the first person to take a bold step forward.

sigmadiva 02-23-2003 07:21 PM

What I'd love to know is, if a member of ABC sorority from U of Alabama has reservations about admitting a Black member in her chapter, then how does she treat a Black member of her org from another school? :confused:

Personally, I think a prolem of why Black women may not join NPC (white) sororities is that from what I could tell at my school NPC groups require a greater financial commitment than NPHC groups. I have White friends in NPC groups who would complain about the cost of living in the house, dues and having to buy a t-shirt for every event. Let's face it, most Black Americans are not receiveing equal pay for equal work as their White counterparts. So, the dollar a Black man brings home must go farther than a White man.

And, it had been said before, a lot of Black women grew up in environments where NPHC sororites have a stong presence. From their start NPHC groups were and still are concerned about improving the Black community. Maybe if ZTA or Phi Mu, for example, were more visible IN the Black community then maybe young Black girls would think, 'Hey, when I go to school, I'm going to join SGR or ZTA. They were both positive women where I live.'

Maybe more Blacks will want to join NPC groups. I can tell you that we have White members in SGR and they are accepted and treated the same. They work just as hard as the Black members and are just as proud as the Black members to be part of our organization. Why? Because in SGR I Am My Sister's Keeper.

33girl 02-23-2003 08:47 PM

Why does it sound to me like this guy calls the McDonald's headquarters and complains when he gets a pickle on his cheeseburger, instead of simply asking the waitress to make it without it? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'm not sure what to think about someone who believes a huge national system should be completely changed because he believes it will benefit HIS school. Either he has mass delusions of grandeur, or he really hasn't done his homework and has no idea what he is asking, which is worse.

Sistermadly 02-23-2003 10:00 PM

Speaking from what my family members have told me about dues for NPHC and what I know of Alpha Phi's dues, they really aren't that different. Where it differs is at the alumnae level, and my alum dues for Alpha Phi are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than my sister's dues for her sorority.

And while I can't speak on this for certain, if you're an "unhoused" chapter, your dues might be lower than a chapter that has a house. The "sticker shock" involved with looking at NPC dues often comes from the inclusion of room & board. Many women in NPC sororities use financial aid payments to pay for housing, and in many cases, "living in" is cheaper than living in the dorms. And I can't speak for everyone in the NPC, but some organizations have a policy that what you pay up front is what you pay all year - there are no further "assessments" for t-shirts, parties, etc.

I agree with you though - if NPC organizations are really serious about diversity initiatives, then they have to do something to be more visible in minority communities.

sugar and spice 02-23-2003 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sistermadly
Speaking from what my family members have told me about dues for NPHC and what I know of Alpha Phi's dues, they really aren't that different. Where it differs is at the alumnae level, and my alum dues for Alpha Phi are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than my sister's dues for her sorority.

Well . . . not necessarily.

The thing is, no matter what the national organization charges for dues, that's a much lower sum than the sorority members will actually be charged. Only part of my dues actually go to the national organization -- much of it goes towards my chapter in the form of parlor fees, social fees, etc. etc.

The NPHC groups, which tend to be more service-oriented than social (of course, both NPC and NPHC groups have aspects of both), and who definitely don't go around throwing elaboratetly themed mixers and formals all the time, will have much less in the way of social fees. And you're right, having a house makes a big difference -- and most NPHC groups don't have houses, whereas many NPC groups do.

So price may be a significant factor.

I wish I knew how much NPHC sororities on my campus paid for dues so I could have a basis for comparison.

Tom Earp 02-23-2003 10:58 PM

Kelly, HI!:) Glad U are still Monitoring! And of course posting!!! Come to Kansas And Live with Me!

James, 2 m's!

sistermadly, thank you! LXA did colonize at a HBC.

I could not agree more thast interaction is the key note of all things!

Brother Rodney (LX Z 251) is Afro-American! I am sure He does not considder himself that way around us! He was just voted in as a Board member of the House Corp! I was seated next to him and my my comment was, well Rodney, I guess I will see more of you now!:D

It is not about who is what color and to what Org. you are going to belong to because of it but who you feel easy with, The Big Easy!:cool:
Thank you all for your posts on this subject!

I hope I did not put a jinx on it as sometimes it seems to happen!

Post away Please!!!! This is what it is all about!:)

Munchkin03 02-24-2003 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sistermadly
Speaking from what my family members have told me about dues for NPHC and what I know of Alpha Phi's dues, they really aren't that different. Where it differs is at the alumnae level, and my alum dues for Alpha Phi are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than my sister's dues for her sorority.
Same here. In fact, my NPHC family members pay more at the alumnae level than I do at the collegiate level, living in-house--and that's at the chapter, not national level. When I become alum, my per capita dues paid straight to National will still be less. I'm not sure what it's like at the collegiate level.

NPHC and MCGLO alumnae chapters often will have a large charity ball or formal that could dwarf the social budget of an NPC/NIC chapter.

So, I don't think price makes a difference at all.

What do I think it is? The prominence of the respective groups in the community. I happened to grow up in a community where, through my teachers, I knew which women were Kappa Deltas, which women were Thetas, etc. BUT, most importantly, I knew which women were AKAs and Deltas--and I knew their record of service within the community--something I still have yet to be exposed to among NPC alumnae. Unless it is a special community, not many NPC groups are really working it in the community like NPHC groups are. I think if NPC alumnae groups were to focus on widespread community service like NPHC groups, there would be a lot more interest in general. (Does that make sense?)

I've often wondered that, if there was a way that I could go through Rush at one of the schools that has had racial discrimination controversies, with my record being what it is, if I would be accepted by my own chapter. In some cases, I could probably say no. :(

zchi2 02-24-2003 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Earp

Brother Rodney (LX Z 251) is Afro-American! I am sure He does not considder himself that way around us! He was just voted in as a Board member of the House Corp! I was seated next to him and my my comment was, well Rodney, I guess I will see more of you now!:D


Maybe I read your statement wrong, but did you mean he doesn't consider himself BLACK around us? Maybe I missed something, but why would and why should he forget that he is black? Is it something that he should forget? When he is around you all, what does he think he is? White? I'm not trying to jump on you, but I just hate it when people in general say things like "sometimes I forget that 'billy' is black" or "I don't see color." We all see color because that is what the American society is all about. I hope NO ONE forgets that I'm a black women...

I'm sure that I'm reading this statement wrong (hopefully). I just want to understand what you are trying to say.

sigmagrrl 02-24-2003 12:50 PM

I'd like to offer my opinion based on my personal experiences. I found that, as an African American woman who chose to join an NPC, I got more crap and resistance from OTHER AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN than from Caucasians! I was called an Uncle Tom, an Oreo, I was spat at, you name it. So, my thinking is that other African American women might join NPC groups if they didn't fear getting ostracized and harassed. I didn't let it stop me and I wish other women who choose to question another woman's choice would remember that it's really none of their business, to be brutally honest!

Sistermadly 02-24-2003 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Munchkin03
NPHC and MCGLO alumnae chapters often will have a large charity ball or formal that could dwarf the social budget of an NPC/NIC chapter.
Word. My niece was a Sigma Gamma Rho debutante - and while I don't know the price tag for that event, I can tell you that it probably cost more than the annual formal that the collegians put on here.

And let's not forget the Ebony Fashion Fair fashion shows that many NPHC sororities sponsor each year.

Quote:

I think if NPC alumnae groups were to focus on widespread community service like NPHC groups, there would be a lot more interest in general. (Does that make sense?)
It makes perfect sense. Why can't Alpha Phi and AKA have an "Ivy Awareness" day that focuses on, say, women's cardiac care in minority communities? (that's just an example, but you get the idea)

Quote:

I've often wondered that, if there was a way that I could go through Rush at one of the schools that has had racial discrimination controversies, with my record being what it is, if I would be accepted by my own chapter. In some cases, I could probably say no. :(
But you were accepted, right? Isn't that the most important thing?

There are stories here on GreekChat of women (I assume they were white) who didn't get a bid from the sorority they wanted, so they transferred schools and became members a different chapter of the same organization. I personally think it's a silly reason to transfer schools, but hey, why couldn't a woman of colour do the same thing if joining an NPC group was so important to her?

Chapters differ from area to area, and the chapter culture differs from area to area. I'm not saying it's right (cause it isn't), but it's a fact. Unless something is done to change the culture, it's a force to be reckoned with.

Dionysus 02-24-2003 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sigmagrrl
I'd like to offer my opinion based on my personal experiences. I found that, as an African American woman who chose to join an NPC, I got more crap and resistance from OTHER AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN than from Caucasians! I was called an Uncle Tom, an Oreo, I was spat at, you name it. So, my thinking is that other African American women might join NPC groups if they didn't fear getting ostracized and harassed. I didn't let it stop me and I wish other women who chose to question another woman's choice would remember that it's really none of their business, to be brutally honest!
You should've told them that you joined "Sigma" only, they would've ASSumed that you were talking about Sigma Gamma Rho rather than Sigma Sigma Sigma.

aopinthesky 02-24-2003 01:42 PM

I would like to point out that the letter in question came from the Faculty Senate and I do agree that the administration at the University of Alabama has a great interest in the diversification of GLO's. I am not certain, however, how keen the interest in diversification is among the GLO members themselves, and therein lies the rub. I also have the feeling that those GLO's are not particularly interested in being told how to run their organizations by those outside of them.
Mr. Baldwin was incorrect on one point, however. He states that preference is given to legacies. The policy of many NPC organizations is to invite their legacies back to one invitational party - some are not required to even do that. After that, anything goes and the sororities may cut whomever they wish to cut. In addition, I believe that, while many sororities DO require a recommendation in order to offer a bid, they procure those recommendations when they need them. Do either of these things give someone an advantage? Maybe, but then, maybe not.
James, I agree that it is odd that the Faculty Senate would say that legacies and recommendations should not be considered for admission to a GLO, when they most certainly are considered for admission to the University of Alabama.

FuzzieAlum 02-24-2003 01:56 PM

These recommendations are kind of odd. Not every sorority does require references, for starters. And legacies are only important at some schools - I met only one rushee who was an AXD legacy the entire time I was in college. So, no, the legacies weren't keeping anyone out at my school.

So, yes, legacies are important at U of A. Somehow, I don't think that abolishing legacy policies at XYZ will prevent the dear old moms and grandmas from perpetuating the legacy system - they'll just do it out of national's sight.

And all the national policies in the world don't change the fact that many African American women aren't rushing NPC sororities at that school. It seems naive to think that masses of African American women will be like, "Did you hear? Legacies are getting cut left and right! Now is the chance for us to rush, because that was all that was holding us back!"

I'm willing to bet that if you look around the U of A campus, outside of the Greek system, you'll find the same level of segregation. Greeks aren't that different from the rest of campus. If the administrators want integration, maybe they should work on a slightly larger scale.

pialpha92 02-24-2003 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sigmagrrl
I'd like to offer my opinion based on my personal experiences. I found that, as an African American woman who chose to join an NPC, I got more crap and resistance from OTHER AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN than from Caucasians! I was called an Uncle Tom, an Oreo, I was spat at, you name it. So, my thinking is that other African American women might join NPC groups if they didn't fear getting ostracized and harassed. I didn't let it stop me and I wish other women who chose to question another woman's choice would remember that it's really none of their business, to be brutally honest!
I think you have a very good point here. In 92, at my campus when an African American woman chose to go through fall recruitment and eventually pledged she received threats and was extensively harrased by some members of the NPHC organizations on our campus (I do not mean to imply that all NPHC groups would act in such a way - so please do not take offense).
Our chapter happened to pledge an African American member that same semester and sadly she encountered the same problems. Luckily I don't believe current NPC members are receiving the same treatment but it is sad when it does happen. A lot in this issue will depend on the climate of the campus regardless of any policies regarding legacies, etc.

moe.ron 02-24-2003 03:46 PM

same thing happen to one of my brother. While he was pledging, this one dude look at him pledging and said "What a waste of a good black man." I herd that and I got pissed. Fortunately I was a very good friend of the President of his fraternity and told him about it, how I don't appreciate any of my guys being told they were a waste. President told me he'll take care of it, and the next day the guy appologized to us. Which is cool, cause despite his offence, he was man enough to take the brunt of his action.

phisig4life 02-24-2003 04:04 PM

Maybe my school is doing things backward. We currently have 4 sororities (3 nat. 1 loc) and 3 frats (2 nat. and 1 loc). our school is made up of primarily white students, however we have a growing number of minortities, and most of those are african-american. My chapter is fairly diverse considering the mix on campus, but the other chapters (especially the frats) are primarily white. Many AA non-greeks have expressed the feeling that they would go greek if they were better represented in the greek system. Several AA greeks are working together w/ AA non-greeks to bring AA sororities and frats to our school. We feel that having AA glo's on campus will only strengthen greek life here. Are we wrong?

Honeykiss1974 02-24-2003 04:04 PM

To add my 2 cents:

If NPC sororities want to increase their "minority" population (for lack of a better phrase) then members, especially alumni members should be more visible.

For example, I can remember in high school, it wasn't uncommon to see on an african american teacher's desk an XYZ, Inc mug, pen, or something that displayed their affiliation. Small things like would initiate questions and hence, discussion would start.

For my non-african american teachers, I never saw any of that. I am sure that majority of them were in a sorority/fraternity members, but they never "showed" it, so to speak.

I think this can be very important, especially when a student admires their teacher and wants to immulate their path to success (which may include joining their sorority/fraternity once they get to college).

Maybe this is an area that NPC sororites could concentrate on...more alumni visibility.

sugar and spice 02-24-2003 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
To add my 2 cents:

If NPC sororities want to increase their "minority" population (for lack of a better phrase) then members, especially alumni members should be more visible.

For example, I can remember in high school, it wasn't uncommon to see on an african american teacher's desk an XYZ, Inc mug, pen, or something that displayed their affiliation. Small things like would initiate questions and hence, discussion would start.

For my non-african american teachers, I never saw any of that. I am sure that majority of them were in a sorority/fraternity members, but they never "showed" it, so to speak.

Maybe this is an area that NPC sororites could concentrate on...more alumni visibility.


Agreed -- it seems like since NPHC groups are less focused on "the college experience," and more focused on the lifetime GLO experience, they're more visible. Most people, when they think of NPC sororities, think of only the college aspect of it.

Munchkin03 02-24-2003 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sistermadly
But you were accepted, right? Isn't that the most important thing?
That wasn't the point that I was trying to make, although I appreciate where you're coming from. Let's say that I could go through recruitment at one of these schools as a student, unbeknownst to anyone that I'm actually an initiated member--just to see how far I could go and how I would be treated. I sincerely doubt that I would have been selected by the chapters of my organization at other universities even though I obviously meet the membership criteria. Isn't there something inherently wrong with that? :confused:

Another reason African-American women may not be as willing to join NPC groups--you're not always accepted with open arms by other chapters in other regions! I'm applying to some graduate schools in the South, and I would love to be an advisor at one of those chapters--but would they have me? The concern about rejection from a sister--or an entire chapter-- could be too much to bear.

Honeykiss1974 02-24-2003 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Munchkin03

Another reason African-American women may not be as willing to join NPC groups--you're not always accepted with open arms by other chapters in other regions! I'm applying to some graduate schools in the South, and I would love to be an advisor at one of those chapters--but would they have me? The concern about rejection from a sister--or an entire chapter-- could be too much to bear.

Good point. A friend of mine (who is AfAm) from high school joined a small chapter KAT (it was a small college too). She stated that she one of the reasons that she joined was because she felt comfortable being in a small, close-knit group of women.
That may also be a factor as to why there are no minorities joining very large chapters of NPC groups (such as U of AL). Regardless of race, when you join an org, you want to feel comfortable with EVERY sister, and not just 5 out of 120. ;)

Sistermadly 02-24-2003 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Munchkin03
I'm applying to some graduate schools in the South, and I would love to be an advisor at one of those chapters--but would they have me? The concern about rejection from a sister--or an entire chapter-- could be too much to bear.
Maybe I just feel differently because I don't assume that everyone is obligated to like me just because we share Fraternal bonds. It would be a sad thing if an Alpha Phi "rejected" me because of my colour, but you know what? That's her problem - she's missing out on so much by limiting herself, and rather than feeling hurt or angry, I'd pity her because she lives such a narrowly prescribed life. Her bigotry doesn't make me any less a member.

If you decide to go to a graduate school in the South and the collegians at your school 'reject' you, it doesn't make you any less an Alpha Chi. I'm sure there are other chapters in the immediate area who would welcome the chance to have such an amazing woman advise their chapter. When one door closes, another opens elsewhere. :)

(Come to think of it, I would love to see an experiment where women of colour go through rush as a "mole" in southern schools just to see what would happen. Perhaps it can be used for Fraternity education purposes?)

GammaPhiBabe 02-24-2003 06:37 PM

Quote:

I would love to see an experiment where women of colour go through rush as a "mole" in southern schools just to see what would happen.
I understand the sentiment behind this idea, but don't you think it would hurt more than it would help? First, the "mole" wouldn't be as enthusiastic about rush as a regular rushee because she wouldn't be taking it seriously. So, she might be dropped simply because she might not exude an air of really wanting to be there. Second, if she did trick all the houses and get a bid, she would be taking away a spot from someone who might really want one. Third, when the initiated members found out that they had offered a spot on their bid list to someone who didn't actually want a bid, don't you think that it would raise their suspicions in the future about other Af-Am women who might actually want to take part in these organizations?

There are some people who believe that Melody Twilley was a mole who went through rush because she was encouraged to do so by a particularly anti-greek professor at the U of AL. I don't know if that's true, but it could be.

I don't remember who mentioned meeting Melody during rush, but I met her as well and I agree with the reasons given as to why she did not receive a bid. She was older than 99% of the other PNMs and she was not very nice to the sisters in my house.

I also wanted to add that I just got back from a leadership conference in Atlanta and I met a couple of African American GPhiBs. I don't think that it would be any big deal if you wanted to be an advisor to a Southern chapter of your sorority. Most of us Southern girls aren't nearly as shallow as some of the people here seem to think we are. :D

Sistermadly 02-24-2003 08:18 PM

If I thought it would hurt, I wouldn't have suggested it. :)

But seriously - if a woman who is already an initiated member of a sorority goes through the rush process, I think it could be very beneficial, because she knows from the inside out what the process is like, and can offer suggestions to her sisters about areas that they could improve on (like for instance, diversity outreach). Because she's a member of the organization, maybe the sisters who are resistant to change might take her suggestions to heart more than they would an "outsiders"... does that make sense?

But then, I'm a head-in-the-clouds "I love everybody" type, so I realize that my views aren't exactly realistic. :)

FuzzieAlum 02-25-2003 12:49 PM

I would imagine, in a case like this, where the officials are eager to desegregate, the Greek Life office could easily enough accommodate a mole without screwing up the numbers. I'm not sure how I feel about the idea, but I think it could be done without denying someone else a bid.

KappaKittyCat 02-27-2003 12:45 AM

Agreed. It's easy enough not to count people in quota-- we do that with seniors and with foriegn students who are here on one-year programs.

And don't just assume that your sisters will automatically like you if you're both of the same race.

SxyDeltaGam 02-27-2003 01:32 AM

I'm an AA women in a NPC sorority and I have received a lot of crap from others in NPHC orgs. The only instance I've received support is from my closest friends who are Zeta's and Delta's at other schools. They sent me gifts for initiation and stayed at our house to experience what they called the "other half of greek life." On campus with people who don't know me I get dirty looks when I wear my letters and it makes me feel bad. It's as if people assume I think I'm "white" because of my choice of sorority. I think if people didn't assume things and got to know me they would understand my decision more.

GPhiBLtColonel 02-27-2003 02:56 AM

Regarding NPC alumni visibility...
 
...I founded an alum panhel association here (just south of Atlanta) almost two years ago. We have roughly 100 dues paid members representing 18 of the NPC sororities. We have done community service that we have tried to get publicized in the local paper...or even just get meeting info in the south metro section of the Atlanta Journal Constitution...it just does not happen except in the freebie, driveway papers...BUT........I see articles and notices all the time for the NPHC groups in the area and their efforts for this activity or that fundraiser etc...really is irksome!
We are not letting the media ignore us though and we'll keep pushing for publicity, but it is Not easy!

Sistermadly 02-27-2003 03:17 AM

GPhiBLtColonel, have you thought of contacting representatives from the NPHC groups and asking them how they manage to swing that kind of coverage?

From experience, I know it can be tough to get notices placed in newspapers that don't typically take those kinds of announcements (unless they're associated with major philanthropic events). Don't give up - persistence usually pays off. :)

Sistermadly 02-27-2003 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SxyDeltaGam
The only instance I've received support is from my closest friends who are Zeta's and Delta's at other schools.
Think of it this way - at least you know who your true friends are.

GPhiBLtColonel 02-27-2003 06:22 AM

Sistermadly....
 
...I don't think the NPHC groups are doing anything differently than us -- e.g. just submitting articles/press releases -- but I think it is a media bias...

Steeltrap 02-27-2003 12:46 PM

Re: Regarding NPC alumni visibility...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by GPhiBLtColonel
...I founded an alum panhel association here (just south of Atlanta) almost two years ago. We have roughly 100 dues paid members representing 18 of the NPC sororities. We have done community service that we have tried to get publicized in the local paper...or even just get meeting info in the south metro section of the Atlanta Journal Constitution...it just does not happen except in the freebie, driveway papers...BUT........I see articles and notices all the time for the NPHC groups in the area and their efforts for this activity or that fundraiser etc...really is irksome!
We are not letting the media ignore us though and we'll keep pushing for publicity, but it is Not easy!

Why is it irksome?

33girl 02-27-2003 12:49 PM

Because the papers are publishing things for the NPHC groups but not for the NPC groups. She's not saying she wants less NPHC publicity, just more/equal NPC publicity.

Steeltrap 02-27-2003 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 33girl
Because the papers are publishing things for the NPHC groups but not for the NPC groups. She's not saying she wants less NPHC publicity, just more/equal NPC publicity.
Thanks for clarifying. Speaking as a journalist myself and as a public relations chair for my chapter, it's the job of the organization to make the assignment desk aware.

Perhaps, and I don't work at the AJC, there might be NPHC members who are reporters and editors who might keep their colleagues informed. Sistermadly also made a good suggestion about brain-picking.

And from what I gather, NPC/NIC post-undergraduate alum activity, while existent (see this board as an example), isn't on the same high visibility level as NPHC organizations.

Sistermadly 02-27-2003 12:58 PM

GPhiB....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by GPhiBLtColonel
...I don't think the NPHC groups are doing anything differently than us -- e.g. just submitting articles/press releases -- but I think it is a media bias...
Now, here's where I disagree. I was going to PM you but it seems that you're not receiving PMs at the moment, so....

As I said, I've had some experience with this paper and with publishing events. From my own experience, it's not a bias against/preference for certain groups. It literally takes YEARS of persistence to get an advertisement published in that paper, unless it's a MAJOR philanthropic event -- the AKA/ALTA tennis tournament comes to mind. Things like this always get published, but unless your chapter is doing events of this magnitude, you might be SOL.

The organization I worked with sent in announcements faithfully every year for about four years in a row before we finally got an announcement printed in the AJC, and once they finally accepted one from us, we were published pretty regularly. Furthermore, it takes building a relationship with the editors, even if it's just calling them to follow up on the announcements (without sounding confrontational or accusatory). Also, speaking as someone who worked as a public relations/community relations coordinator for a radio station, I can honestly say that I was swamped with press releases from every dinky organization in the whole city - but the ones that usually made it on air were sent in by people who called me and/or sent follow-up letters to check on whether the announcement would be aired. Yeah it stinks, but greasing the wheel works wonders.

If you haven't contacted the AJC's community events editor (or the Extra editor for your community - do they still do the regional sections in the Thursday papers?) definitely contact that person and find out what the requirements are for submission. Maybe the things you submitted weren't in their preferred format - one of the first things I learned is that they want things outlined in a specific format so that they'll have to do as little editing as possible.

And definitely pick the brains of the NPHC publicity persons in your area. Invite her to coffee and explain your predicament. She might have the name and contact information for a specific person, and could set you on the right track.

Also, don't forget community papers like Creative Loafing. I know I used to send lots of announcements there and they were almost always published. Just because it's a free weekly it doesn't mean that it doesn't have a sizeable readership. They used to have suburban editions of CL, and I just noticed that community events are also published on their website - talk about visibility!


And like Steeltrap suggested, maybe the answer is for your alumnae chapter to do some high-visibility alumnae events. As a matter of fact, I wish more NPC groups did this.

I have lots more suggestions, but I have to run to the gym. PM me or e-mail me if you have any other questions, okay? :)

sigmadiva 02-27-2003 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SxyDeltaGam
I'm an AA women in a NPC sorority and I have received a lot of crap from others in NPHC orgs. The only instance I've received support is from my closest friends who are Zeta's and Delta's at other schools. They sent me gifts for initiation and stayed at our house to experience what they called the "other half of greek life." On campus with people who don't know me I get dirty looks when I wear my letters and it makes me feel bad. It's as if people assume I think I'm "white" because of my choice of sorority. I think if people didn't assume things and got to know me they would understand my decision more.
You know, I will admit that I used to feel that way, giving crap to AA girls in NPC groups. I never said anything, but I had that feeling. Then one day I looked up and noticed that in SGR and in at least two other NPHC sororities there were non-Black women members. And what do people say about that, NOTHING. I realized that it is unfair to ridicule one and ignore the other for the same action - joining a group of an opposite race.

I think the flak stems from historical purposes. At one time Blacks were not 'allowed' admittance to all NPC/NIC/IFC groups, but now they have opened up. Whereas, if I remeber correctly from reading in a Baird's Manual, NPHC groups have always had an 'open-race' policy. The point is, why would you want to be part of a group that would not allow your grandmother/grandfather in. But, you know what, Blacks attend and graduate from predominatly white schools, and have been for a while, and nobody seems to be bothered by that.

And to GPhiBLtColonel, I agree with Steeltrap on this one. My chapter just celebrated our 75th Anniversary and I was the Public Relations/Media Chair for the event. The way I publicized our event was to call first then fax a press release to each media outlet: radio, t.v., newspapers, and community newspapers. And as far as I know, we don't have an 'insider' working for us and it was well publicized and attended.

Munchkin03 02-27-2003 07:05 PM

Press Coverage
 
It's all about following up. In everything from college applications to making sure someone received your fax, following up is key. Be persistent! In a city like Atlanta, there are probably so many groups vying for coverage space, and let's not forget that it's sometimes about who you know...the society editor could be/be married to/lives with/have a child whose teacher is/has a parent or sibling/is in the same country club as...someone in one of those groups.

In a world where a lot of us NPC members will start sentences with, "I used to be a ABC", those aforementioned connections are very important. Plus, I'm sure the AKA alum chapter in ATL (and I imagine that there are a lot) could have a higher membership than all 26 NPC alum groups combined.

GPhiBLtColonel 02-28-2003 12:43 AM

Thank you all..
 
...we have been following the guidelines the Metro section of the paper told us to follow; I even know a guy who writes for that section and without being too much of a pest I have called him to say hey we'd really appreciate seeing our little notice in thepaper, and we have followed up to ensure the notice was received (if it had not been delivered in person)and we have even called after we thought our notice would get published -- you know what they say? Oh there wasn't room, or something else came up or balh blah blah...we are still a baby group and are just starting to do more community wide events that might get some newspaper's notice -- we just delivered over 100 stuffed animals we'd collected to a nearby police department that uses them for it's Care Bear program -- e.g. when the police go on calls and kids are present, they get a stuffed animal to keep them from getting too upset...and then two days ago we just delivered two carloads of gently used, clean career clothes to our local womens' success network -- they create business wardrobes for abused and other women getting into the work force...

Sigh...I guess it will be as you suggest Sistermadly -- just keep on keepin on and being persistence -- we have only been at this for not quite two years....just a few more to go I guess till we get to print!!

I do like your suggestion too about getting together with the NPHC PR person for coffee to pick her brain! Thanks!


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