DG fines members if they don't vote in student elections
 

I was searching for stories on DG, and I was reading that someone running for student president at a school in Missisippi fined the members of her sorority if they didn't vote in the student elections. She said she could do it because of some bylaw. I thought this was hazing. Am I wrong?


Here's the story from thedmonline :
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Case disqualified, No President Named," came the headline in Friday's DM.
Below it came an article that did more than just raise my eyebrows.

"Case was disqualified for a voucher fraud charge," said the paper.

I was definitely disappointed by this.

"Piazza was charged with fining members of her sorority if they did not vote...She was assessed a major penalty and fined $50."

Wait, what?

That punishment makes the Kincannon vandalism sentence look like a firing squad, especially considering the knife put through Hardy Case.

Think on this - Case's voucher showed him as being close to $200 below the spending limit of $1,000.

Know what he was nailed for?

He didn't record all of his campaign spending How someone managed to get a count on all the fliers, cups and stickers scattered across campus is beyond me. I guess the elections commission takes it pretty seriously.

What they don't take seriously is forcing students to vote. Forcing over 200 girls to vote in an election that barely broke 2,000 votes cast last Tuesday doesn't seem to be a big deal. Maybe if more than a 10th of the vote was forced then it would grab their attention.

Laura Piazza's sorority forced its members to vote and she lied about it in the televised debate. In all fairness, she didn't want to lie - she did an excellent job of dodging the original question poised by the Black Student Union representative. Her reluctance to lie was again clarified by her gaping mouth when pressured again by Hardy Case.

Piazza supporters say that all members of Delta Gamma would have voted for her anyway. Maybe, but the DeeGees are massive ? it's a strong possibility that a few of them would not have voted or would not have wanted her in office.

We'll never know, as they were also required to wear stickers and weren't allowed to work on other campaigns.

Nothing can convince me that the bylaws weren't vital to Laura's blanket of supporters that shrouded the campus.

Of course, it could just be a coincidence that a Delta Gamma has not lost an election in over a decade.

I assure you, if Hardy had that sort of vote buying power, his voucher would be missing even more. Laura got all of that for free.

The allegations brought against Laura Piazza were far more tangible and severe than the charge that disqualified Hardy Case. Unfortunately, Laura was "assessed a major penalty" and given a $50 fine. Maybe the "major penalty" is the ASB presidency.

It's probably a safe bet that Hardy Case won the vote, as his disqualification would be irrelevant had he lost.

And as for that "major penalty," Case was slapped with one as well, though his came after the original election.

Case held a meeting with more than 20 people before the campaign began. Obviously, in the eyes of the elections commission, this is as bad as forcing members of one of the largest sororities on campus to vote.

That only makes sense, as holding a meeting before the campaign and forcing a couple hundred votes affects the outcome in the same way.

Right. As soon as the elections commission chooses their next president, apparently based in no way on the opinions of the students who voted, they need to fix this problem.

This is outrageous. We spent all last week talking about the low ASB voter turnout and how students on this campus don't care, and now the elections commission lets Piazza off and disqualifies Case, throwing away the opinions of the students that do care.

If the decision stands, and it turns out that I'm right about Case winning the vote, this will stand as the most dismal moment of the year.

Suddenly, Hardy Case's "revitalize the ASB" campaign seems a lot more relevant.

When did this happen?

I can't imagine not voting for my sister anyway. Most GLO's (at least here at NCSU) asses fines for various things - I've never heard of fining someone for a situation like this, but it could happen...especially if they have a history of winning elections.

This happened this last week at the University of Mississippi. You can go to www.thedmonline.com and search for "sorority" and it will bring up the related stories.

yikes. what a sticky situation.

The sorority is Delta Gamma. The school is Ole Miss (The University of Mississippi). Same school PiPhiJulie currently attends and MSKKG attended.

The subject is the race for Associated Student Body President. There are several accusations of violations. Piazza a candidate and member of Delta Gamma was fined $50 and a major penalty for fining sorority members not going to vote for her (she also evidently lied about this during a debate). Case the other candidate is a member of Phi Delt. I am not sure I understand, but I believe he is charged/disqualified for spending more than he was allotted on the campaign or not accounting for all of his spendiures, meeting with more than allotted amount of people before the election and giving people rides to vote. No one knows who won, however, you can speculate that Case did or the violations would not be subject here. Also, I understand that according to the bylaws, both candidates were supposed to be disqualified. Though, only Case was disquailified. Delta Gamma has not lost an election in ten years(?), there has not been a women ASB president in 25 years(?), and rumour is that many of the current ASB members openly supported Piazza.

Here are the links:

ASB extends appeal deadline for Case
COLUMN - Clarifying ASB election controversy can be tedious
COLUMN - Election scandal outrageous
Case disqualified, no president named
Debates become personal
EDITORIAL - Embarrassing debate proves ASB needs work
Piazza to face Case in run off election
Three candidates fined

Re: DG fines members if they don't vote in student elections
 

How is this hazing? Stophazing.com defines hazing as the following: "Any action taken or situation created, intentionally, whether on or off fraternity premises, to produce mental or physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment, or ridicule. Such activities may include but are not limited to the following: use of alcohol; paddling in any form; creation of excessive fatigue; physical and psychological shocks; quests, treasure hunts, scavenger hunts, road trips or any other such activities carried on outside or inside of the confines of the chapter house; wearing of public apparel which is conspicuous and not normally in good taste; engaging in public stunts and buffoonery; morally degrading or humiliating games and activities; and any other activities which are not consistent with fraternal law, ritual or policy or the regulations and policies of the educational institution."

I see no way in which encouraging members to vote is hazing by these guidelines. Voting in student government elections is not in poor taste, she didn't make just the pledges vote (which is still not hazing in my book). 10 minutes to vote is nothing.

I really wish people would slow down on accusations of what is and isn't hazing, and carefully examine what, if any, type of situation is being created...

I understand your point Betarulz! However, some people might feel that it is harassment to be fined for not voting in a student election. At some schools, student election voting isn't convenient, epecially when students are expected to do it between classes at inconvenient locations and during a short window period. I'm not sure what the situation is at Mississippi, but regardless, no one chapters should be able to fine their members for not participating in student elections. Besides, some students might not like ANY of the candidates, including the one from their own chapter -- should these people be forced to vote in spite of their feelings?

Quote:

I really wish people would slow down on accusations of what is and isn't hazing, and carefully examine what, if any, type of situation is being created...

Also, I was trying to start a healthy discussion, not controversy. I never accused anyone of hazing, I wrote that I THOUGHT this was hazing and I asked people to clear it up, not jump down my throat.

Kappa does not assess--whatever our semester bills are is all we pay for a semester. I know some GLOs do assess--I just don't know which ones. It appears that DG is one of them.

WhiteDaisy128, I can't imagine not voting for my sister either! However, if the big deal was just about voting, no one has to know HOW I voted! ;)

I don't know...I wouldn't vote for a sister if I didn't think she was qualified for the job. I love my organization, but if my sister's going to be MY representative and she's running for all the wrong reasons, I don't think I could vote for her. It's a personal decision that no one would know about. But--if I was being forced to vote for someone on the basis of being fined if I didn't, I'd make it known that that would be in poor taste. Doing that goes against my GLO's Purpose, so it wouldn't even be a question of loyalty. It just doesn't work like that.

You fine members for missing chapter events--Recruitment rounds, chapter meetings, Initiation events. You don't friggin' fine your members for not voting. Voting is a personal choice, and if you don't want to, you should have the freedom to do so. :rolleyes:

I completely agree with OTW.

On the subject of 'hazing' I would see being forced to vote even if you don't have the desire to, or if you don't have time is just wrong and a major inconvienence if there is a possibility of a penalty hanging over your head if you don't vote.

But didn't I read that the whole vote forcing thing was untrue anyway?

Quote:

But didn't I read that the whole vote forcing thing was untrue anyway?

If you did, please give me a credible link, so I can correct my post.

When I thought back on my post, I realized I made it sound like Kappa doesn't fine. We do fine for missing recruitment-related events, initiation-related events, etc., but we do not assess for social events, etc. Sorry for the confusion.

Also, in the mid-1990s, a Kappa won Miss Ole Miss, an elected honor, against a DG (who happens to be a cousin of mine). The DGs are a respected group on the Ole Miss campus, so I'm sure they've won their share of elections. There were no female ASB Pres. while I was at Ole Miss (1976-80), but females held the other offices many times.

Just a question - how would the chapter KNOW that you voted for her? I mean, they can't stand over your shoulder when you vote...

I know here at NCSU all the elections are online...I can't imagine that at such a big school you would have to vote in person...but maybe you do...can anyone enlighten me?

I read that the vote forcing thing was untrue...IN THE FEEDBACK PORTION OF THE WEBSITE...probably written by Piazza supporters. I haven't seen anything on dmonline that gave proof that the vote forcing was untrue.

I see it this way--it's about dirty politics--not DG, not Phi Delt. Both parties seemed to have shady business going on in their respective camps. I don't feel sorry for either of them. I feel sorry for the ASB and for the campus that doesn't have a President.

I have tried repeatedly to be able to read the Feedback section, but nothing happens. I guess my computer is not Java-whatever compatible. :( If you have to do more than click on the comment, please let me know.

don't take this the wrong way...
 

But it BLOWZ MY MIND that student politics is such a big deal at some places that people would even think of going to these extremes.

Re: don't take this the wrong way...
 

Some student governments are more visible than others. If your group dominates one it can be very good for recruitment. Especially if you can advertise a monopoly on leadership positions. Unfortunately, the student body will typically allow this by not showing up to vote or not staying informed.

how could they know anyway?
 

I mean, do you get a receipt if you vote? How could anyone fine you for something they cannot prove you did or not.

At my school they did it by student ID. I'm sure there are ways to find out if a person voted or not.

How they enforce it really doesn't seem to be the issue -- the issue is that they actually have a bylaw requiring people to vote. This doesn't seem very Democratic. I realize that sororities aren't always the most egalitarian places, but what happend to being a free-thinking person?

Besides, fines should be reserved for requirements, such as for not taking out the garbage, or failing to show up for phone duty. Voting is a choice, not a requirement.

When I was at Ole Miss, our IDs were used to denote that tickets to sporting events were gotten, etc. Each event was assigned a number, so that number was scratched off your ID if you participated. I assume that IDs are still used in this way.

The way they check here to make sure you don't vote twice is to put on some sort of UV dye on your thumbnail...all you need to in order to tell is someone has voted is a black light which will cause their thumbnail to glow. The dye they use usually doesn't completely wash off for about 2 days.

According the NPC, an activity or requirement is hazing only if it is "for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with, or as a condition for continued membership in a chapter or colony of an NPC member fraternity." In other words, being forced to vote is only hazing if your membership in the sorority is conditioned on your voting as required.

I think getting members involved in campus activties is a great and needed, heck we get more personal points for being members of student orgs and such but forcing people to vote for a certain candidiate in an activity is a bit much. This whole drama baffles me....the things people do to win...or make sure others don't win!

I know somewhere there is a thread on my next comment... but... on many campuses the ASB is paid. At some schools it is the whole executive body and at other schools only the President and VP...

Payment ranges from parking space, tution, monthly stipend... none or all of the above. I think at one school, the student body president is paid close to $20,000 a year.

If you are at certain schools (at least in the south) it can really bolt you into the state government (if that is what you are interested in). The outgoing ASB President at Ole Miss is spending the summer in DC working on the hill. I can not speak about any other state, being on the ASB at Ole Miss and MSU can help you on the fast track in MS politics, with such a large alumni support thru-out the state.

Very true...at Nebraska the ASUN (Association of Students at the University of Nebraska) President gets football tickets in the luxury boxes for free. They also sit in on and can do everything but vote at the Board of Regents meetings, which is still a considerable amount of power. I also think that there is some sort of scholarship that pays for tuition as well. Wouldn't be surprised.

On top of that, if they say something funny it makes the Daily Nebraskan like the time that our outgoing ASUN Prez. wrote a letter to the editor saying that he "could have eaten a bowl of alphabits and crapped out a better column" than one of the opinion columnists!

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the infamous "Machine" at the U of Alabama. Most of our state politicians came from membership in machine fraternities. Because of the influence of this group, the SGA there was disbanded from 1993-1997. The Machine controls just about every office in student government, and its influence is felt in a large number of elections all over the state. Machine-affiliated sororities and fraternities generally require their members to vote, and although it isn't spoken about now as much as it was a while back, there can be repercussions for members who don't vote or who vote for the wrong candidate. The administration has taken steps in the past few years to insure the secrecy of voting, but there is little that can be done about the influence of the Machine over election results.

Wow Bama_Alumna, that's really interesting. I have never heard about that and I find that all very interesting.

Kinda makes you wonder about stuff!

<!--insert eerie, mysterious music here-->

It's a real bummer that things like that really happen.

Here is a recent article about last year's SGA elections from the CW (UA's student newspaper):

http://www.cw.ua.edu/vnews/display.v...b?in_archive=1

Here is another one you might find interesting:
http://www.cw.ua.edu/vnews/display.v...f?in_archive=1

and one more:
http://www.cw.ua.edu/vnews/display.v...3?in_archive=1

It is a strange thing, but it's nothing that the independent voters couldn't overcome if they would band together and cast their vote for independent candidates. There is a large amount of student apathy on campus... that is why the Machine gets its candidate elected (almost) every time.

That said, the Machine gets blamed for a lot of things at UA and most of that is just the independents or the administration looking for a scapegoat.

thanks for the informative links Bama_Alumna :) Interesting stuff.


It is disappointing that some of the leadership positions may have been obtained by use of systems like 'the Machine' rather than winning on merit.

Re: don't take this the wrong way...
 

I think student government is a big deal because the SG controls millions of dollars. SG funds hundreds of campus organizations and projects. If the Greeks control SG then Greeks will have a ton of power and influence on campus. If a university doesn't want to cooperate with Greeks then the Greeks that control the SG don't have to provide the the university with millions of dollars that the school needs for important projects. The IFC/NPC is building floats and the SG is helping to build libraries, athletic facilities, parking garages and student housing.