Etiquette Question
 

I just received an invitation to a "Naughty or Nice" bridal lingerie shower for a high school friend. This will be marriage #2 for the bride-to-be (#1 was 5 years ago).

Beyond the obvious tackiness of the theme, I was always taught that showers for re-marriage were not appropriate, same going for showers for second children, etc. The same host had a shower for another friend for her second AND third children. I don't want to be a b*tch about the whole deal, and at this point plan on using work as an excuse for not attending (I haven't spoke to the bride in almost 2 years, it's not like we're close).

However, out of curiousity...What is everyone else's take on showers for re-marriage and baby #2 and beyond? Am I a victim of outdated etiquette, or is this really a faux pas?

Ettiquette really is a lost art or a lost cause depending on who you ask. Your friend may just be opportunistic -- utilizing any possible chance to get free stuff.

She might have come out of her previous marriage with nothing. If she's marrying the same man as she did previously I'd question her motives though.

If I remember correctly, the entire premise of a shower is to shower the bride/new mother with the gifts that the couple/baby will need in getting started out. I figure that by the second time around, she will have just about everything she needs to start a household or have another baby.

Times have changed so much in the last 40-50 years that its hard to say what is appropriate anymore. IMO, you shouldn't feel obligated to attend...and you are certainly not obligated to send a gift. I think a polite card sending your regrets and best wishes for a happy marriage is plenty.

To quote Emily Post's Etiquette:

"Every effort should be made to make a shower for a second marriage one that will be really helpful to a couple who may already have all of their basic necessities. Liquor showers, food showers, garden showers, and ticket (to some entertainment) showers are often more appropriate than the traditional ktichen or linen showers."

AND

"Showers may be given for second babies, but they should be restricted to either very close friends and family or to people who were not invited to showers for the first baby. Only if the mother has moved to a new area and has a new circle of friends should she allow anyone to give her a shower for additional babies."


In this day and time when the sex of the baby is known more times than not prior to birth, I have heard (not from Ms. Post, however) that showers for second babies whose sex is different from the first baby are appropriate.

Although I tend to go with proper etiquette, I will say this - if she is coming from an unhappy marriage, I think that a shower is a good way for her family and friends to say, "We support you, we want you to be happy, and we're here to make things a little more fun getting ready." I don't think this is wrong at all. As for more than one baby shower, I would definitely throw one for one friend of mine, but maybe not for others. It depends on their situation. If you're not close, I wouldn't worry about going, but if it were a good friend I wouldn't let "etiquette" keep you away.

I'm seriously dating a man who has been married before, though I have not been. As we are planning on marriarge, I would assume we are still getting a shower thrown for us. He got practically nothing in the divorce and I still have most of my "first apartment on my own" furniture, kitchen wares, etc.

Also, what about people who live together for 5 years before they get married? Don't you think they have accumulated a lot of stuff already? And they still get showers. Same can be said that most people are getting married later now. At 28-35 you should have plenty of stuff but we still throw these people showers. I just think, as someone else sort of said, it's a happy time and why not celebrate it to it's fullest?

The double baby shower thing though is a bit much...

Re: Etiquette Question
 

I'd like to hear what people from the south think of this! I always feel like they know way more about etiquette than I do!

I'm no expert, but this whole thing sounds so inappropriate on so many levels. I really don't think that people should be having showers for seconds -- marriages or children. It just seems, I don't know, overly selfish, and there are other ways for family and friends to show that they support someone as she approaches her second marriage -- that don't involve nothing but gifts. For example, the couple (or their families) could throw an engagement party or something along those lines, and those who feel moved to bring a gift could, but the emphasis isn't on that.

I would say no for second (and third, etc.) children as well. Once you have baby stuff, you can reuse a lot of it (especially if you're not into the cheesy blue for boys and pink for girls crap). I would think that by the time you've decided to have a second child, you should darn well be able to afford to buy what you need yourself, and it's not like you're just starting your new family and need all the help you can get.

I agree that the theme is VERY tacky. Why do you all want to sit around and watch someone look at lingerie she has received? Why would anyone want to buy lingerie for a friend? What if you buy the wrong size? While you are eating lunch (assuming that the guests at least get fed), are you supposed to picture her and her future husband enjoying the lingerie? Gross.

Also, if you haven't spoken to her for two years, WHY IN THE HELL were you invited to the shower? I always thought that showers were for close friends and family. I wouldn't even think of going to a shower of someone I haven't spoken with for such a long time. I figure, if we're not close enough friends that I could call you up at night crying about something that upset me, I'm not going to your shower. I think the best ever shower invitation I got was for a shower that was being held across the country. It came with a note saying, basically, that we know you can't make it, but feel free to send a gift! Yeah, right!

Edited to add: Bridal showers are, in my opinion, for brides. I think that if a woman who has never been married is marrying a guy who has been married, there is no reason why she shouldn't have a shower.

Thanks for the replies, everyone...

I'm not sure if I made it clear before, but my hesitancy to attend the shower is not related to the second marriage aspect as much as it is to the fact that I'm by no means close to the bride at this point in our lives. The last time I saw her was at a another friend's wedding 2 years ago, and even then we only exchanged a few words.

I was more just wondering if the etiquette that my mother drilled into me as a youngster about such matters was outdated, and how common such event were in this day and age. MSKKG, I copied your post and sent it to her, so I'm sure she's gagging on her tongue right now ;)

As far as living together, this is another hot topic with my mom. I live with my bf, and probably will for 2 years or more before we get married. We have everything we need plus more. I don't want a shower, and I've told friends that. In general, I think showers are about as outdated as hope chests. XO_Kathy, you're right in that people get married later in life these days, and many have most the things they need to set-up a home. Personally, I would just prefer a kick-butt bachelorette party ;)

I'd like to share my own experiences on this subject.

My husband and I were both over 30 when we met and married. I already owned a home that I purchased in my single years, we both had established careers and stable incomes. When he moved into my guest room in the couple of months before we married, we had to "consolidate" alot just to make everything fit in the house. (The Salvation Army made a killing off of us.)

In addition, I had bicoastal bridesmaids, and most of our friends and family flew in from over a dozen states (or sent cards, etc).

In my situation, a bridal shower just didn't make any sense, in any form. (My bridesmaids and I, plus a guy or two--don't ask--had a low-key bachelorette night at a local club, and my matron of honor gave me my first "married" lingerie as a private gift, but that was about it.)

My then-fiance and I decided that given the lengths people had to go to just *be* at the wedding, we included a card in our invitations that asked our guests to not send or bring any gifts--that we had everything we needed and what we wanted most of all was for our friends and family to share our wedding and celebrate with us. We suggested some of our favorite charities if people really felt the need to give a gift.
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In this day and age of people marrying later, more frequently, and women being more financially independent than our mothers or grandmothers were, I'm having a hard time accepting the concept of the traditional "shower". For those of us who are already established in homes and careers before we marry, it seems to be a bit of overkill.

We'll be trying to have children in the near future as well. While we would love to have our friends and family celebrate any new additions to our nest, I can not see myself saying, "Sure, buy a plane ticket, find lodging for yourself and come visit. Oh yeah, buy me something too."

Just my 2 cents.
Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

I knew someone who had been single forever. she had her own house, tons of furniture, and was extremely picky when it came to guys. She ended up marrying this guy who had a lot of money but he was divorced with 3 kids. A true gold-digger.
Well, she had a wedding shower with about 90 people. And I was invited because her mom wanted me to come. She barely said two words to me. So, I didn't go. I thought it was rather selfish of her to have such a big shower(half the people went to save face but they hated her and talked about her all of the time). I think some people are selfish. And I don't care how many times she was married. . .she wasn't a close friend of mine so why should I go to the shower because of her mom liking me?

But as far as marriage and baby number 2, i don't think that they should have a household shower. . .but for the marriage, i would have a lingerie shower. . .and for the baby, it would just be a cookout to stay congratulations.


the only case that i would accept an invitation to with the baby is if their oldest child was like 6 or 8. . .or the baby was a complete surprise(no lie, my friend's parents had her little brother when she was graduating from high school-he's 10 now).

Wow, I have never heard of this "no showers for seconds." Everybody I know has showers for second babies and even third, etc. I am not too sure about the whole marriages deal, as I can't remember knowing anybody who re-married. I'm still astonished.

I see nothing wrong with showers for second babies - I would hate to be the second baby that no one thought to throw a shower celebrating my arrival! If nothing else, have a small shower and tell everyone to buy diapers - those definitely can't be reused and aren't cheap.

Lingerie showers are gross, no matter what. If a close friend wants to buy the bride to be a pretty peignor set, fine, but that's as far as it should go.

As far as second wedding showers - it all depends on the first marriage and how it went, emotionally and financially. But I completely agree with everyone who complained about the large showers. IMO showers are for bridesmaids, very close friends in the area, and family ONLY. I've gotten shower invites from people I hadn't talked to in FIVE years, and they weren't next door either - I am talking up at the NY border. I don't know what they were thinking, but having grown up with a shower as being something held in the church social room with punch and cake, these showers that are as ornate as the wedding are absolutely foreign to me.

I must be in a nice mood today, because I am giving everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Keep in mind, this bride is NOT throwing herself a shower. Her bridesmaids, sisters, friends, or whomever have decided to put together an event. It is not like the bride is going to refuse.

Maybe they don't particularly know that you are not close with the bride anymore, and feel you would be offended without an invite.

There is no such thing as outdated etiquette... it is always relevant, it's just that our society is dumb and tactless far too often!

Anyway, the idea of showers (even for a first wedding) is inherently rude. You are NEVER supposed to ask for gifts... there are many other ways to celebrate joyous events. Showers have become a traditional part of our culture, however, and can be excused when done tastefully and minimally. Anyway, I don't think anyone should have too many showers for their first wedding, and I don't think they should have them for second ones. You already got gifts!

For babies, I think it is more okay to have multiple ones (ie. one for each kid).

Family members should not throw showers, based on traditional etiquette... Only friends can.

YES...I agree this is very appropriate for this day and age but you you do have MANY old skool folks that will never give/attend the shower for a second baby.

A baby always needs STUFF and STUFF is expensive. It doesn't matter if it's the first, second or fifth. I'm a mommy...I know these things. :D :p

Also someone mentioned re using things from past children. That's all good also but if you have your second child in a season different from your first...your clothes will be all wrong. For example I had my son last Feb. So he has a lot of winter clothes 0-3 months. If I have my second child in June he/she could not wear his/her older brother's stuff. The season's would be off. Basic stuff like onesies and blankets don't apply to this.

Good second or third baby shower gifts DIAPERS, DIAPERS and coupons for more Diapers. :)

Yea Delta Beta Baby! That's exactly what I was thinking. Besides, why not go to support this woman's second marriage? What if it's her boyfirend's first? Mabye her mother in law to be wants to throw her a party. I see this less as a question of gifts (which many people see as the main part of the shower.. but you can always skimp! The idea is that you are just there, right?), and more as a question of making her second marriage as special as her first. Also, those poor second babies!!! They deserve to have a shower in their honor. I would feel bad for them.
-M

From a Southerner
 

Bridal showers for a second marriage (or beyond) are appropriate, but should not been done in the same tradition as that of the first. (granted, there are exceptions but this is in general). The "theme" persay should be more of a celebratory atomshpere, with gifts such as those Ms. Post listed. I have also attended showers where in lieu of gifts, donation were instead collected - no cash, just checks written out to a particular charity.

Same as Ms. Post listed for second babies. Only those that are family or extremely close friends should attend multiple baby showers. Your ex-roomates bestfriend from college (you get my point) should not be receiving an invitation to your multiple baby showers.

We had one baby shower for my first child. For each child however, we had a luncheon following their baptism/christening ceremonies. We only included close family and friends, and we paid for the event. But each child got some very special gifts from people. All got beautiful cross necklaces from their great grandmother, special lockets from a grandmother, silver spoons, rattles, etc from other family members, etc. My sister made each one a quilt, my mom cross stitched each on an angel. So anyway, they all got gifts that they will keep forever.

I personally felt we should not have second and third showers. Most friends come by and bring gifts for the babies anyway just so they can see the little ones. I have heard of other people doing dinner and diaper showers for second babies. That is what you really need - diapers, and gift certificates for restaurants or homemade dinners cause you sure don't have much time to cook during those first few feeks with a baby!

Someone mentioned the "not asking for gifts" thing & it reminded me of my sister's wedding. Etiquette tells you that the family is NOT suppossed to throw the wedding/bridal shower, because it appears they are "asking" for gifts.
Usually the maid/matron of honor throws it. However, I was the maid of honor @ my sister's wedding. So then another member of the party is suppossed to throw it. Guess what? The other 2 attendants were our step-sister & her sister-in-law (to be).
So I threw it anyway. My sister had a couple other friends that might have given her one, but she was young (19! :eek: ) and her friends weren't all that organized. So there are times that you have to ignore the rules, or at least bend them. I just wanted to point that out. Especially since I personally *hate* showers. ;)

I don't like the idea of a shower for a woman's second marriage. To me, that just seems grabby... UNLESS there are extenuating circumstances, like the bride's ex-husband got everything in the divorce and she has bupkis for her new household.

I didn't even have a shower. My in-laws threw us a very nice engagement party, and we got plenty of gifts from that. (I don't think you are obligated to bring a gift to an engagement party, but that's just what's done, at least around here.)

For babies, I do believe in having a celebration for each baby, but not necessarily a shower. Every baby is precious, the second and third no less than the first. I plan to have a celebration for each baby I may have, but they will be Jewish baby namings, not showers. If people want to bring gifts, I won't turn them down ;) , but I won't be expecting gifts.

I wouldn't be surprised to receive a shower invitation for a second baby, particularly if the baby is of the opposite sex as the first baby, or (as toocute mentioned) the baby will be born in a different season, or mom is expecting twins and suddenly needs two of everything.

As for the "naughty or nice" shower theme, can I just say UGH! Obviously a man came up with that one :p

Now I went to a baby shower not long ago that was rather large for a third child BUT...the baby was born nearly dead and the fact that it was alive was definitely reason to celebrate. That and her husband was away on some sort of extended medical job so she was a semi-single mother w/ 2 young boys and a baby girl that was kinda in peril. The focus on the shower was more "togetherness" than presents since they certainly had the money. I think it just helped her feel supported. But the second marriage thing...let me get started a bit...
My cousin just married some girl who is fairly recently divorced. He's 22 she's nearly 25. The situation (which I won't tell details) is kinda sketchy and the whole wedding reeked of some tacky. She had a billion teas, showers, parties, etc. Granted my cousin deserved 'cause it was his first, but all the shit was focused on HER. Then to make matters worse she wore a strapless white dress and a veil. It's her 2nd marriage and it was in January for crying out loud. Our side of the family was like completely shut out of the whole thing and it pissed me off. Ok i'm done venting now.

I find this post to be very interesting. I've never heard of not having showers for seconds, and so on, and I've lived all over the country. We even had a shower for my aunt who got married a few months ago, but had been with her husband for 19 years.

But I'm going to throw a new twist into this...I'm a bridesmaid for one of my sorority sisters. Her aunt is throwing her a bridal shower and she wanted for the other bridesmaid (another sister) and I to throw her one with the chapter. Not all of the sisters are invited to the wedding, and I told the bride that I didn't feel comfortable making the sisters feel obligated to go to a shower and buy a present for someone who isn't even inviting them to the wedding. So, the few sisters that are invited are going to her aunt's shower. Plus, we have two other sisters who are engaged...if we throw a shower for one, we should do it for all (which can get expensive). I'm just curious to know if anyone agrees with me on this--that you don't join a fraternity or sorority so that you can have a huge shower...

As far as showers for second babies go I think they are not necessary. The purpose of a baby shower is to "shower" the mother and father with gifts for the baby that they need... and usually by the time the second baby comes around, parents are all set with supplies.
As far as showers for second marriages... I think that it really depends on the situation. Sometimes, when you go to a wedding or wedding shower, you can tell right away if the marriage will last or not (I know that personally, I can think of 2 different couples that fall under this category). Actually, you can probably even tell that BEFORE going to the wedding or the shower. In the case of the shower mentioned in this thread, I think that is inapproperate... and not cause it's a 2nd marriage, but basically just because of the theme.

This is all just my opinion though. ;)

I completely agree with you. :)

Whoa, they wanted to invite people to a shower who weren't going to be invited to the wedding? Good for you for saying you weren't comfortable doing that. How TACKY!