Sororities and the South?
 

Ok every now and again I invade this forum of estrogen dominated conversation and I have noticed an odd trend.

Southern Sorority life seems to be different than the rest of the Nation.

Other parts of the country have huge systems. Other campuses have 150 plus houses. But in the South it seems more of a problem.

In other areas, even in the larger systems it seems inclusion is the rule. In the South it seems Exclusion is the premise.

But it doesn't seem rooted in the sorority system itself which is neutral.

Rather the Sorority system has seemed to become part of some large Southern Social Pageant involving the magazine Southern Living, Some junior circle (women's group?), Church, country clubs, basically your status in society,and some boiok about Why Princess Margarett couldn't be a Kappa Gamma.

The message seems to be: this is what growing up in the South is about. The right school, the right sorority, the right church and Country club, and that it begins before college.

If I am not totally off based socialogically. Would someone please comment? Or maybe they have the historical antecedents?

Re: Sororities and the South?
 

Junior League, I think, is what you mean.

Junior Circle is what Alpha Gamma Delta call their "Young Alumnae" chapters (define "young" however you want)....

You Are Correct
 

Although, the pitcure you paint (and well) may not be as pervasive today as it was at one time. The book ("Princess Margaret, etc") is a GREAT window into the phychology that you describe. We southerners like it the way it is. But again, there have been changes that are probably for the best in the long run. The sororities chart their own course, very different from that of our fraternities.

Re: Re: Sororities and the South?
 

Off topic--and just to clarify--the Junior Circle is for alumnae who are recent graduates up to the age of around 35. Of course, we welcome sisters of all ages in our activities! :)

Sorry to hijack, because this is an interesting topic that's worthy of discussion. Can't wait to read what our resident southern rush experts have to say.

Re: Sororities and the South?
 

Well, I will comment on my system, being the largest in the nation :-).

There is DEFINITELY inclusion. No, not every girl gets her first choice, but it is few and far apart that a girl goes bidless. The ones who don't match are almost always snapped up. Tons of chapters COB, and which chapters those are changes from year to year. Juniors rush, and get bids to perfectly strong houses. A small house one year can pull off a great rush and be a large house the following year. There is also a huge amount of diversity, with very few houses having a very set image.

So yeah, I think we are very different from the South, even with 19 chapters of 150+ and quotas around 50.

Well, you can't generalize. The "right" sorority, country club, etc.--all this is important to some people and not to others. As far as sororities go, pledging one of the "best" groups is immensely important to some. And people tend to know the strength of the chapters at each campus so in some circles, so you couldn't get away with pledging a weaker chapter of a strong sorority...those in the know would say, "Sure, she's an ABC but it was only the Auburn chapter." But...I think most of the people it matters to would rather be in a weaker chapter of a strong sorority than in a less prestigious sorority on a big campus. After all, you'll still get to be in a more prestigious alum club later on.

Also, at many schools you just have one chance to make it into those "sororities of choice"...upperclassmen have a poor chance of being chosen. Crummy, but true.

This isn't just Southern though...often I read articles about how parents in the Northeast obsess to get their kids in the right preschool which will lead to the best prep schools which will get them into the chosen Ivies. The articles would have you believe that all northeasterners are like that, which of course they aren't.

Stolen from my Chi-O friend's IM profile:

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

At my campus this is definately true. Even though it's an elite school there is a certain group of girls out to get their MRS degree and a lot of them do tend to gravitate to certain sororities. Southern rush is intense, but there are ususally some laid back alternatives, too. :D

Oh good lord. James, get your panties out of a bunch.

Surprisingly, not all Southern women focus their entire lives around being in the "right" sorority and getting married.

The greek system is different because the *south* is different.

James, Do you mean Junior Leauge? That is different than Junior Circle, which is the young alumnae AGD group. I think in this discussion you mean Junior Leauge, which I know is a big part of life here in the south for women. i.e.- Junior Leauge of Birmingham, AL, and other cities in the south. They raise funds to help the community.

No, not all southern women focus on getting married right out of college and being in the "right" sorority, but there are quite a few who do. I grew up in Auburn and still live in Alabama and some of the things you hear and see really would make you shake your head in disbelief. It was honestly culture shock going to Florida State because the lifestyles are so different there (even Greek life).

I really think it all depends on your upbringing and what "priorities" your parents feel are important (in the social system). Some families just live this life focused on society and don't know how to think any differently. In my opinion only those in the "inner circle" of society are interested in the minute details which other people might dismiss as inane. There is ettiquette and good taste and then there is ettiquette ---taken to a whole new level. Of course, I am from the south so maybe even my view is a little skewed ;)

(Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I'm still not totally awake yet :) )

Carnation-But...I think most of the people it matters to would rather be in a weaker chapter of a strong sorority than in a less prestigious sorority on a big campus. After all, you'll still get to be in a more prestigious alum club later on.
Too true, too true!:rolleyes:

Here, you attend one of two schools out of six. Discernibly more emphasis placed on the private school.

You are a member of two particular Krewes.

Of COURSE your mother is in the League! She also is in the inner Pan. Alum circle.

It honestly helps if your parents attended LSU and you are a legacy. If this isn't possible...is you Dad a lawyer??? (Doctors and businessmen are OK if there are other listed qualities.)

Exaggerated to a degree, but the parents are important for many reasons, one being the kids mix together from birth. When your parents share activities, it starts all the way back to play dates at the park. It's like being cousins, you grow up with a certain set of kids and the ones ahead age wise pull for those behind. If you know your local history, you can see social groups reflected in the sororities and SOME of the fraternities. A great guy in one of the fraternities called over Christmas and we ended up talking for close to an hour. He said he was the last of our town's actives and was going inactive this semester. He said well, that's about it for _______. No one left to speak for them. Our town has now shifted to basically 3 fraternities. Our private school girls are shifting as well. The public school girls hit a sorority that hadn't seen many from our area for several years.

Every year I see more and more that just makes me shake my head. HOWEVER, if you think about it, it's only natural for childhood friends to pull for one another. It also explains how some stereo types are perpetuated. There are so many dynamics at in work Southern Rush. I doubt anyone interested in the nuances of recruitment or the South in general would ever get bored.

Carnation, as usual, you bring up a very insightful comparison. From the little I know about the emphasis placed on Southern rush, it has a lot more in common with college admissions in the Northeast than it does with rush in the Northeast. In my parents' circle, for a child to end up at a nationally prestigious state school like Michigan is seen as borderline embarrassing...at a minimum, a child should go to a school like Smith or University of Chicago, and preferably Princeton, MIT, etc. If a child went to an SEC school, with the possible exception of Vanderbilt, that would be seen as something approaching a parenting failure.:rolleyes:

On the one hand, the college admissions system doesn't claim that its goal is to foster sisterhood and friendship, and it is inclusive in the sense that anyone from anywhere who earns a spot in a given school is considered equal, even if (maybe especially if) her parents are illiterate immigrants. On the other hand, it's ultimately as complex and snobby as any rush. So Northerners (from my social class, at least) shouldn't be calling any kettles black when it comes to having ideas about moving in the "right" institutions.

Justamom, you are right. Count me as one of those. I knew almost nothing about the South before I started reading Greekchat...now I still know almost nothing, but I'm fascinated! I read the Princess Margaret book, Prudence Mackintosh and Florence King's books, and I am still looking for more.

I think it is amazing that this is my own country, and there are whole societies here that I know less about (and in some ways seem more foreign to me) than France or Japan. There is so much that I haven't seen. I'm about to visit a friend (a KAO!) who's working in Birmingham, and I can't wait to see the Deep South for the first time. We're going to the Alabama/Auburn basketball game in Tuscaloosa...roll Tide! (can you say that for basketball? :D )

Ivy

My perspective as a U of SC grad
 

In my experience, rush at U of SC was extremely competitive. We had several large sororities and a few smaller ones. The larger ones I'll call A, B and C. These were the Southern Belle groups. Large, popular, beautiful but not necessarily diverse. But that was okay because from my perspective this is what they wanted.


Rush was not so much finding a home as winning a beauty pageant. Money, clothes, who your parents were and where you were from were big qualifiers. Those without recs need not apply. Not getting in to one of the big three could be crushing. People actually transferred schools if they could not get into one. Suicide bidding was common. So was dirty rush. I was first hand witness to this. I can't tell you how many times my friend (a freshman) who was tall, gorgeous and rushing one of the big three, got personal notes and phone calls and gifts from sisters during rush.

This was all about 13 years ago, but I would think based on conversations here and now that this isn't so uncommon.

Totally off topic...I was down in Alabama the weekend of the Alabama/Auburn football game, but totally didn't put two and two together. Had I figured it out sooner, I know I would've been there for all the craziness. Enjoy the game, and make sure to drink all the sweet tea you can while you're down there. :)

Am drinking sweet tea as I read this. lol. Gotta love the south.

Not really along the topic, but JAM, what is Krewes?

A Krewe (Old English spelling of crew) is a Carnival organization. www.mglinks.com Most are private with non-public membership rosters. Membership is by invitation only.

In New Orleans, some date back to 1857 and others as recent as last year. Like any organization, some are perceived as more desirable then others. Desirability depends on what you are looking for. Most of the old-line organizations (I.e., old-family, with or without money) are male only and are seen as the most prestigious. These are like Comus, Rex, Olympians, Zulu, and Original Illinois. To get into some of these Krewes, a man has to belong to the sponsoring club first. Getting into the sponsoring club is NO EASY FEAT! For some organizations, it IS about your pedigree, what you do for a living, and to what other clubs you belong.

There are all female Krewes like Iris, Shangri-la, and Muses (one of the founders is a Gamma Phi Beta). Many of the late 20th century Krewes have both male and female members. I myself am a proud charter member of the Krewe of Orpheus (www.kreweoforpheus.net - we are celebrating 10 wonderful years!) However, I do belong to others as well as my husband.

There also gay Krewes like Armeinius (www.armeinius.com) which has some of the most fabulous costumes.

THE USC
 

South Carolina markets itself as THE USC since it was founded before So. California. I'm not sure it caught on anywhere else besides Columbia!

Marie

I can see that an elaborate social system like that can be a great comfort for people . . . that are well on the inside.

But i imagine that if you Fall from Grace there is little forgiveness?

Or little access for outsiders?

If you are outside that "circle of Trust" lol (Meet the Parents)

But i imagine that if you Fall from Grace there is little forgiveness?
Boy did you say a mouthful!
In retrospect, it all seems to be like the Indy 500. I can see how
couples were "jockeying" for social position. Women who were BRED to be the "perfect" wife. Sophie Newcomb was the place for a male to find a mate. This is the late 20s to early 30's age group. If you weren't in the League by baby number one, you most likely wouldn't be invited. If you rejected or delayed acceptance, there were no party favors for YOU! Prior to going inactive, a few brave souls were actually told, this IS word for word, "You know you are committing social suicide." However, when they opened the doors and made it easier to gain membership, it became OK to find community involvement outside
the league.It HAD to be within a select few organizations, however. Another quote, "When I no longer enjoy the people I must work with, it's time to resign." This statement, by a monied
female created an exodus which lasted for quite a while. Now, it is the SUSTAINERS which hold the clout, have the REAL parties and make the city go round... it is again-exclusive.

Or little access for outsiders? Tight group here...This is especially reflected in the Krewes. IF you are not a local blue blood, don't even THINK about an invitation to two of them.
It's funny because often, the off spring have not and will not achieve the same financial or social level as their parents. Yet, the folks pay their private school tuitions, pay for their Krewe memberships and hold their hand till the inheritance comes down the pipe. Oh, the new thing is to send you kid to out of state college. (Doesn't matter if it's a fluff college or not) It shows you don't NEED TOPS, AND back to sorority and fraternity-the kids can get into their legacy where for numerous reasons...they may have been cut from their parents' houses had they gone where people actually KNEW them! Power and connects can't save EVERY legacy...

Back to the race-after living in this place for 20+ years, the road to high society is littered with wrecks. Scandals-The Mistress of the most exclusive female Krewe turned out to be a lesbian and ran off with a woman, one political leader started another life in Atlanta all thewhile his wife and 5 kids were unaware of the double life he was leading...also had funky financials with a lot of property. Falling outs-law firms mostly but professional jealousy among the medicals, affairs-LOTS of affairs.
Still, if you have enough money behind you, you can return to the fold...just make the check out to the right fundraiser and make SURE Madame Chairman sees it!

edited for clarity

Justamom,

You should write a nice satirical book . . . right after you move North.

I take it that this bastion of PErvasive Southern Gentitlity is mostly in the suburbs and more rural areas rather than the cities themselves?

What do the demographics look like?

There is a complete difference in sorority mentality between the South and everywhere else. Basically in the South it is a beauty pagent. It is an exclusive system not an inclusive system.

Oh no, it's in the cities too. The alum clubs of certain groups, for instance, are quite adept at handing over a list of the PNMs to be kept in recruitment and those to definitely be cut to the active chapters at large universities. Likewise, PNMs from certain cities gravitate towards certain sororities--there are a couple af Auburn sororities in particular that the Birmingham girls seem to prefer.

I have been told quite vehemently by some of my Southern Sorority Friends that Florida is not part of the South. LOL

Boy, am I glad I went to a school where 95% of students weren't from the immediate area, and no one had any clue who your parents were or what my high school "meant." I'm glad the sorority women could judge me on my own merits rather than on the social structure that I had been born into! After all, I didn't pick my parents.

It may work for the girls in the system, but I just feel sorry for the rushees who don't have the right credentials through no fault of their own. I feel sorry for the outsider who accidently walks into it without knowing the rules.

Actually, outsiders may fare better than girls who are from the right families if there are hundreds of rushees. The girls who go in and select a group they like with no previous knowledge of "tier" can end up a lot happier than someone who goes in with her mind set on 1 or 2 sororities.

Yet again, I must explain to you that it depends on what part of Florida. If you're talking about Miami then, no, that isn't considered "southern". I think most would agree that Central and Northern Florida are "southern". Some parts of North Florida (ie- Pensacola, Jacksonville, Tallahassee) are more "southern" than some places in Georgia or Alabama.

Carnation-Actually, outsiders may fare better than girls who are from the right families if there are hundreds of rushees. The girls who go in and select a group they like with no previous knowledge of "tier" can end up a lot happier than someone who goes in with her mind set on 1 or 2 sororities.
Again, you are so right. Of all the local girls that went through rush with my daughter, there was one, from the private school, who didn't make it into the one her two closest friends did.
She accepted her bid, but was soooooooooo heartbroken. She STILL just hangs out with the other two girls and only does the functions with her sorority. My young guy friend said that the three have not really made much out of their GLOS. That's kind of sad to me. Coincidentally, this year's rush saw an exodus from the sorority the two joined. I think they got one local girl.

James , we are considered "small time" socially by Baton Rouge's standards and I doubt NewOrleans even gives us a second thought. Our size is that of a decent city, but our work force has a lot of blue collars. MANY of our civic leaders are LSU alum, but our local businessmen are local graduates. When I first arrived it was explained that people were trying to recreate the New Orleans social scene. In fact out of our population it was said "You only need to know about 3,000 people." Like the rest don't matter!:rolleyes: I do know a lot about those 3000 people, and other than my weakness for GC, I am trusted to NOT gossip. (GAWD, I have to tell SOMEONE!!!) You are right, I would have to leave town or they would hunt me down like a dawg and pelt me to death with their dublooms!

I would definitely agree that the north FL cities you mentioned are more "southern" but I think of it as more "country" southern and not southern in terms of "society", ettiquette, traditions, etc. Not to say there aren't nice points to each city but these cities are in closer proximity to small, less thriving cities and represent a different aspect (the stereotyped aspect) of "the south".

Reading this thread has definitely made me reconsider my intention to rush in the fall. I'm from the South, go to a southern school, am the first in my family to go to college, do not come from wealthy parents, come from a public school, wasn't a cheerleader, and neither won nor entered in any beauty pageants. Guess I'm as "outside" as you can possibly get.:p

YOU GO, MTSUGIRL........
 

........you go thru rush and that's an order;)
Seriously, I hope you are just kidding about not going thru rush because of what's been said on GC about the South and sororities...:(

I'm kidding - mostly.
It does make me kind of question things, though. 400 girls went through rush this year, my roommate included. We have 7 NPC sororities. She had an open mind, a 3.8, is a 20 year old junior from a wealthy family, cute as a button, sweet as she can be, brilliant and talented, tons of activities, and she's still independent. She was cut from everything.
Reading threads like this and other ones that say things like "You need about 10 recs for each group" (exxaggeration, I realize) can be extremely daunting. Especially when you think about going in as an upperclassman at a school that I've been told doesn't have quota additions for juniors and seniors. (Even if you happen to be a brilliantly funny, intelligent, mature, talented, gift from God like myself. ;) )

I plan on going through rush - it was one thing I was determined to do when I came back to school. Your orders will be followed Ma'am! :)

Crystal

Good plan Crystal!
 

I am glad to hear that you WILL do rush after all! But I sure am sad to hear what happened to your roommate -- that is really awful! :( How is she doing now?
Please keep us posted when you do go thru rush yourself -- you know we will all be thinking good thoughts for you!:)

To MTSUGURL: Go through rush only if you can laugh it off later. Just so you know.... upper classmen have a hard time in rush. The groups rather pledge someone who can give them 4 years. If you are a campus celebrity like a cheerleader you will be fine. Don't take it personally. In some traditionally Southern groups the cut list for the first day and some of the pledge list is already made before recruitment starts. Do it... but don't let it bother you if you don't get the houses you want.

Thanks Floridagirl. I appreciate the honesty. Fortunately, I know that my choices are limited because of my age/class standing. (BTW, my university is more than half nontraditional - over 22 yrs old - students.) I know almost 100% going in of 3 groups that will automatically cut me - I've only ever seen them bid freshmen. One of these groups, I would love to be a part of, but I wouldn't be crushed if I weren't. Thankfully, I'm not an 18 year old girl who expects the top house on campus to automatically bid me 'cause I'm just so darn nice. ;) Most defitely not a campus celebrity.

Crystal

I read an article about applying to high school in New York City. It was pretty accurate from what I recall. I think that it was in New York Magazine. Not everyone in NY is obsessed, but getting into the "right school" is something in which thousands of parents and students invest dozens of hours and tons of money.