Grand Valley disowns its TKE chapter
 

Sounds like a bunch of crap. Oh well they lose campus recognition big deal. I am sure IHQ still supports them and the chapter will still exist, just not with campus recognition...

http://www.lanthorn.com/news.asp?type=NS&aid=1756

"Merkle explains that in the event of a suspension or probation the group can not carry out any meetings or do any activities."

Doesn't this violate a constitutional right of association?


"Must get rid of all references of Tau Kappa Epsilon"

Freedom of Speech?

Bring on the lawyers
 

Altho I've never heard of this campus, it has 18,600 students and is located in western Michigan near Grand Rapids. It must be a public college if it is that large.

I do't know what TKE Intl's current view is, but this would seem to be a case to turn the lawyers loose.

Let the school administrators know that TKE and TKE members have rights, and also have lawyers to enforce them.

Fraters,

Grand Valley is actually a very popular college up here in MI, one of our alumni (Rho Epsilon - Northwood University) has been working with IHQ staff for the last couple of years, and helping them "deal" with situations around this region. He mentioned that grand valley had been but on probation by IHQ and asked them not to draw any attention to themselves. so i guess they were shut down because they didn't take IHQ's warning seriously, so they aren't recognized by either Grand Valley University or TKE.

that's all i really know about it, but if anyone wants me to ask i can probably find out some more info about it.

but, i do feel sorry for those guys, and i hope they can work things out soon so they can re open the chapter

Brian E. Gardner #206
Vice Chair Philanthropy/Fundraising
Tau Kappa Epsilon
Rho Epsilon Chapter
Northwood University
Midland MI

If the chapter is closed and they are still doing well maybe IHQ should reconcider and reopen them.

I can tell you about the former TKE chapter at Grand Valley State U. They were put on probation by your HQ, and by GVSU (regarding an incident of violence). They had been warned by TKE not to draw any undue attention to themselves, and had GVSU's Greek Council breathing down their necks. Then, another incident at one of their parties brought criminal complaints against them, and GVSU suspended TKE for a number of years, effectively kicking them off campus. At that point, TKE HQ pulled that chapter's charter. As for the "no meetings" and "not identifying" themselves as TKEs, that's part of the GVSU Student Code. They may not belong to any student organization that is banned from campus. If they openly associate themselves, or hold meetings as a GVSU Student Organization, the student(s) involved are subject to expulsion. Any questions, please ask!

So if I transferred there and wore Alpha Phi letters, I could be expelled?

I'm assuming your IHQ made these fraters alumni. So the school could keep them from wearing letter shirts, even if they aren't having meetings and functioning as a campus organization?

I would guess no, unless A Phi is expressly banned from the campus.

It's one thing to do this to a local - the school has the final word in that case - but when it concerns a national org, I wouldn't think the school would have a leg to stand on unless TKE HQ kicked the individual brothers out as well.

TKE HQ did not make the guys alumni. They are no longer TKEs at all. Not only was the TKE chapter kicked off campus, but TKE pulled the charter and disassociated the members. The thing about not wearing TKE letters has to do with the fact that they were specfically kicked off campus. Any non-student could wear any letters they want because they're not subject to the GVSU student code. But, a GVSU student is not allowed to wear TKE letters because they are signifying that they belong to an expelled organization, which is a violation of the Student Code. Most colleges and universities have similar clauses in their student codes as well.

As general policy IHQ will either suspend your charter or revoke it if you lose recognition by your university. This is probaly due to the fact that rogue chapters are too much of a liability.

Well, say a sorority had its charter lifted by its nationals because they didn't make numbers or some such relatively benign reason. Schools usually follow the national HQ's lead and derecognize the GLO. Technically, this GLO is expelled - are you saying these women wouldn't be allowed to wear letters??

If so, that's a gross violation of free speech rights, especially considering it's a state-sponsored school. I went to a state school in PA and if the school had even tried to keep any of the members of closed chapters from wearing letters, they would have found themselves faced with a lawsuit.

If the ex-bros aren't wearing letters by direction of TKE, that's fine. But I would be very very careful about investing the school with powers it simply does not possess.

I don't understand the whole "violation of free speech" thing. GVSU gives each new student a copy of the student code, and each student signs a contract stating they understand and WILL ABIDE by the student code. If they don't agree with it, other arraingements are made regarding the part in questions, but that usually doesn't happen. So, these guys VOLUNTARILY signed a CONTRACT saying they would abide by the code. The code says that no student may openly affiliate him or herself with a student life organization that has been expelled from the University. I also don't get why GVSU being a state school matters. State schools aren't allowed to have rules?

Since TKE was EXPELLED, the former members are not allowed to OPENLY affiliate themselves - and wearing letters would be openly affiliating themselves. It's different if a national organization simply pulled a charter (which TKE did by the way). But TKE at GVSU was expelled. And the members fully knew and understood what that meant. And they signed contracts stating that they would abide by the code, and if they didn't the understood the penalty was anything upto and including expulsion. I would be surprised however, if the University simply expelled the students. They would probably get a warning, or maybe Student Life probation the first time around.

I don't think this is genrally true. I can name about 5 or 6 chapters that are still recogined by internationals and not there campus. I think it all depends if they believe the reasons the campus didn't recogonize the chapter was just or not.

I think it also needs to be said that the TKE chapter at GVSU was not abitrarily expelled, nor was its charter revoked simply because they were kicked off campus.

The TKE chapter at GVSU had a history of problems. They had numerous fights break out at their parties, most of which were severe enough to involve Police, there were caught for underage drinking (not saying that it is unusual to have underage drinking, just that they got themselves caught), and various other incidents. The chapter was warned by TKE IHQ, GVSU, and the IFC here at GVSU that they were being watch closely. They were put on probation by IFC and TKE as well. Then, this fight which GVSU was threatened with a lawsuit with happened, and it was simply a matter of too many incidents in too short a time span.

Yeah my chapter is not recognized by the school. The entire Greek system here is not recognized. We never have been and it's unlikly that we will be any time soon.

That's not cool. What school are you at?

Carleton University in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Have you asked them why they don't recognize Greeks?

Cause we are elitist, sexist and cost alot of money. The school is pretty left wing.

Wow, that is a pretty left-wing wacko view of Greek life. I don't see how we are eliteist - there are a lot of "normal" people (myself included) that are Greek. I don't understand how we are sexist either - there are such things are sororities. And how do we cost a lot of money? The school doesn't pay for it - the members do! Sounds like you need to get some nice conservative people on the board up there.

We are elitist because we can choose our members, where the chess club has to take anybody who comes. We are sexist cause eventhough organizations exist for both genders each organization is gender specific. As for the Money, the school maximum for clubs and societys is like 10 bucks dues, we charge 300+. It has it's benifits though, everything that the greek community has done has been done because the individual organizations thought it was best. We have a presidents council which operates sorta like an IFC, except there is no judicial branch (we are all self policing). There are other interfraternal councils, such as social and philanthropy that organizes events. We report to nobody but IHQ.

My chapter had our charter suspended temporarily last summer because of an incident where the school suspended our recognition as a student organization. Our charter was not reinstated until we regained our recognition from the university.

Yeah, I guess not being responsible to the school would have it's advantages. I just think it would be cool to have another school in Canada with a Greek system.

Lots of the big schools here have greek systems, and some of them are quite large. Carleton just isn't one of them. I know Queens University in Kingston Ontario expells you if you wear letters on campus.

you also have to consider the fact that there are many levels of losing reccognition. Some schools don't recognize greek organizations because of the reasons in one of the above replies. And they keep their charter, but this is completely different than a chapter who loses recognition due to a student conduct violation.

Granted, I don't know much of Canadian Law, but I would assume you have the same supreme protection of speech and expression, right? Wouldn't that violate a person's freedoms?

yeah we have the same constitutional freedoms for freedom of speech as well as freedom of association. The thing is nobody has the money to take the school on in court. The Alma Mater society of the school made the decision in 1933 and it has never been challenged under the charter of rights and freedoms (which wasn't written till 1982) there are rumours that AEII is starting a chapter there soon.

You're completely missing what I'm saying.

Any school that takes state or federal monies is not allowed to expel a student for being a member or affiliating themselves with an off-campus organization. This was signed into law by President Clinton. http://www.dke.org/conf.html It doesn't matter if they signed some "honor code" or not. If a kid wants to wear an Amnesty Int'l T-shirt and meet with Amnesty Int'l off campus, he is allowed to - if he wants to wear a TKE t-shirt and meet with TKE off campus, he is allowed to. If Amnesty Int'l or TKE don't want this person as a member, it is THEIR choice.

You say "it's different if a national org simply pulled a charter." I hope this is expressly stated in your code - are you saying that the school still recognizes, say, ABC sorority if they got their charter pulled? Wouldn't that create a huge mess with the sorority's nationals?

You're missing my point. TKE is not simply an off-campus organization. Granted, if some typical organization (you used Amnisty International as your example - a non student organization that has never been a student life organization), no school should be allowed to dictate if someone wears that shirt. But TKE is a student life organization, and they were a student life organization at GVSU, and they were expelled. The student code (which, by the way, is reviewed by the Michigan State Board of Education - which is currently run by bleeding-heart liberals) states that no student my openly affiliate themselves ON CAMPUS with a student life organization that has been expelled. Who gives a rip what they do when they go shopping, or home to see mom and dad. But when they're ON CAMPUS, they are not allowed to openly affiliate themselves.

I don't understand why people just can't follow the rules. It's not as if these rules are a surprise. They've been in the code for years. Most schools have similar rules. They're not even TKEs anymore. They were kicked out of TKE by their nationals. If I were a TKE at another school, I would be pissed at the guys who were at GVSU because the reputation TKE has in this area now is not the greatest. TKE is eligible to reapply in 2005 I believe, but that can be extended if guys are caught wearing TKE letters on campus (that was stipulated in the expulsion).

I've looked at the entire situation, and I know what actually happened, something that I would say most of you do not. It really boils down to this: The TKEs at GVSU were not kicked off campus because they had one incident. It was a pattern of behavior which culminated in one incident that ended up with one man in the hospital fighting for his life, criminal charges, and a lawsuit against GVSU. TKE was on probation at the time, and had been on probation several times for several reasons in the previous few years. They were given a hearing to respond to the charges in front of the IFC, but the vote didn't go their way. One of the reasons the vote didn't go their way is because of how they acted in the hearing. Rather than walking in like gentlemen, presenting their case, and respectfully debating the issue, they decided that the best way was to all storm in, yell at the President of IFC and the Judicial Officer of IFC in the hearing. They decided to use foul language, and they decided to make in very easy for the council to recommend expulsion. Why did they act this way? If they had behaved themselves, they may have had TKE suspended. But they decided to act like asses and get their fraternity kicked off campus. They asked all the Greek Organizations to come to their aid, and several did - until they acted like that. Most of their fellow Greek supporters actually literally walked out of the hearing on them when they started to swear at the judicial committee. I don't have any sympathy for them. They made all of the Greeks on campus look bad and there is not one fraternity or sorority that feels bad for them or misses them.

If you ever have the misfortune of meeting any of the "TKE" guys now, you'll see what I mean. Rather than accepting what has happened and learning for the mistakes that were made, they have taken on the attitude of "us against the world." It's almost as if they're begging for another incident with GVSU. At this rate, I'd be surprised if TKE is ever allowed back to GVSU. From what we can gather, "TKE" numbers are dropping. They're having trouble recruiting because they're not a real chapter of TKE. They don't interact with the Greek organizations on campus. They don't have events. They don't have parties that anyone goes to (because we know you might end up in the hospital at their parties). So, the real problem for them is that they don't have anything to offer guys.

Being a law major, I also have the advantage of looking at this from an academic standpoint. This is not a free speech thing. This is a rule thing. If they want to make themselves feel important, fine. Wear a t-shirt under a sweatshirt with TKE letters so no one else can see them. The rules they must follow do not violate their rights. There is no protection of expression when it comes to this situation. A University is free to establish rules governing the regulation of student organizations. There is no doubt that TKE is a student organization. You can't pretend it's not. TKE was expelled. The rules say that students cannot associate themselves with expelled organizations as student of GVSU. If some guy wants to be a TKE on the weekend or weeknights when he's not in school, and not on campus, fine. That is something no one can really stop. It's not within the school's power to regulate his personal life, but it is in the school's power to regulate the educational environment it provides.

One theme I'm seeing that is quite disturbing in the idea some people have that Universities are "rule-free" zones, or that the rules and laws you follow at a University are exactly the same as everywhere else. That's simply not the case. As a resident of the State of Michigan, I can legally carry a firearm (with the proper permits). I can keep one in my bedroom if I wish. But as soon as I step onto a University, I am committing a felony. Doesn't matter what permits I have, I'm breaking the law. Now wait a minute! Doesn't that violate my Constitutional Right to Bear Arms? The student code says that any student caught with a firearm may be expelled. Isn't that a violation of that student's rights? You can't pick and choose the rules you wish to follow. College students today need to pull their heads out of the sand (or wherever else they have stuck them), and take some personal responsibility for their actions. Start being a responsible citizen. Antagonizing people by flaqgrently violating the rules is not going to get you through life with many people on your side.

Beat that with a stick.

what's a law major??

Well, it's called pre-Law most often. What it is here an some sort of related field of study (in my case International Relations) with an emphasis on Law. I'm also minoring in Criminal Justice.

You still didn't answer my question.

XYZ sorority at GVSU has their charter pulled by their nationals for low membership. They haven't done anything wrong in a disciplinary sense - no hazing, drinking, anything. Since the sorority is no longer recognized by their national HQ, GVSU also withdraws their recognition. Are the sisters who are left allowed to wear letters or not???

I'm not defending this chapter of TKE in any way - from what has been said, they don't deserve to wear the letters and their HQ has taken care of that. You said yourself that they're not TKEs anymore - they have had their membership terminated by their HQ - so anything the university does is a moot point. If they are misrepresenting themselves as TKE, that is a matter for TKE to handle, not the university.

Well, typically, the University would not withdraw the recognition, but in this case, yes they could still wear letters. It's not about recognition, it's about being expelled. If you lose recognition because of low membership, you're not being expelled. You simply cease to be recognized as a group. This happened to the TriSigs a while back. Their nationals pulled their charter (and it was done in such a horrible way that in front of the entire Greek community, the Provost at GVSU told the President of Sigma Sigma Sigma that they would never be allowed to recolonize GVSU because of the horrible way they treated the girls who did nothing to have their charter revoked), and they became a local sorority which then merged with a different sorority. The issue of not being allowed to wear letters only extends to expelled chapters.