Bad Reputations?
 

This quote, posted on the thread "thinking about rushing" got me thinking.

WOULD you?

What is a bad reputation, anyway? To be frank, I barely joined my chapter because we were "ugly, nerds and non-party girls". Something in my heart told me to try it. Now that I'm in the chapter I see the reputation as totally different: "intelligent, fun but not drunk or slutty, diverse, open-minded". The chapter I was torn between is known as big in service and a big party chapter. But now, I see them as a bit sketchy--nice girls, but a bit drunk/skanky and not having a very strong sisterhood. There is definately different reputations for freshmen and fraternity men and then for sorority women. So---I joined the "least cool" (yeah right, we rule!) chapter on campus and adore it--but now think that some of the other chapters have far worse repuations in other ways. What do y'all think?

To me, the worst reputation a chapter can have - worse than unattractive, nerdy, party-hearty or promiscuous - is that of being snobbish. I don't mean we shouldn't choose our members with care - we should - but I'm talking about the chapter that refuses to mix with fraternities that aren't as popular, only chooses women with an eye to their social "value" and believes they are superior to the rest of the sororities on campus.

That to me is the worst rep of all and the thing that makes most anti-Greeks feel that way.

Ask different people and they'll ascribe different reps to a chapter anyway ... a chapter is either "nice and down to earth" or "not as cool and cute," depending on who you're talking to. But there are some reps that are more stable - the small chapter is almost always the fat nerds who will take anyone, in anyone's opinion(whether or not it's true).

But girls DO join those chapters, even if in reduced numbers, and contrary to the popular chapters' belief, it's not just because it's the only place they could get in. It's frequently the only chapter those girls would want to join. To them, this is the independent, non-shallow chapter. They know they're not a number just to reach quota. They like the coziness of a smaller chapter.

When I went to fill out my bid card, I knew which chapter to put third. First and second left me torn. Do I put first the #1 sorority on campus, the hardest to get into, just to see if I can get in - even if I didn't really feel at home there? Or do I put first the chapter I really like all the girls in, but that isn't as prestigious, doesn't have a gorgeous house, is on the small side, and I know really wants me? I can tell you the choice was harder at 18 than it would be now, but I made the right one.

I joined a sorority with no reputation. Does that count? ;) (It was a newly founded local sorority.)

Rush at my school used to be the first thing freshmen did, so PNMs didn't really have a chance to find out what the chapters' reputations were. If I had known the reputations of all the sororities on campus before going into rush, I hope I would have had the wisdom not to prejudge each chapter, but instead to go through rush, meet the sisters for myself, and follow my heart.

This is an interesting topic, and I've been thinking about it a lot lately because we have spring rush coming up.

When I went through rush in the fall, there were a handful of houses that everybody in my rush group really really wanted to be in. If you had listened to the rushees' opinions of these groups you would have thought that the girls were all so awesome and fun and beautiful and smart and talented and so on.

Now that I'm actually in a sorority, though, I can see that the rushees' opinions differ quite a bit from everybody else's. A lot of the fraternity boys describe the reputations of some of the aforementioned sororities as pretty girls, yes, but also skanky, snobby, or just plain sketchy girls. Meanwhile, a couple of the houses that didn't do so well in recruitment are seen as fun, down-to-earth girls. And people outside of the Greek system often have entirely different or misguided views of groups because their interaction with GLO members is limited to one or two people from each group.

So obviously it's important to take reputations with a grain of salt -- an ABC sorority member, an XYZ sorority member, a PNM, a fraternity boy and a non-greek are all going to give you different ideas about the XYZ sorority. Of course, there's usually truth to every given reputation, but sometimes it's a very very small bit of truth -- i.e., the sorority with the "fat girl" reputation that has no fat girls in it, because they acquired the reputation so long ago that all the overweight girls have since graduated. Would I join a group with a bad reputation? I probably would, although if the reputation proved to be true I might de-pledge. And obviously some reputations are more serious than others -- I wouldn't reject a GLO because the girls "aren't pretty enough," but I might if they had a reputation for not being interested in philanthropy or for their hardcore hazing.

Before I had even rushed, I had heard nothing but great things about Gamma Phi Beta from the fraternity guys and non-affliated older girls.

Although I didn't necessarily join Gamma Phi due to its popularity on campus (honestly not trying to sound cocky here!), the house's reputation of being friendly, smart, fun girls definitely made me take a closer look at them during rush than I might have if I hadn't heard such awesome things.

Don't kill me for saying this, but I honestly do believe that the reputations of sororities, at least on my campus, is fairly accurate to the chapter. Of course there are individuals that escape their house's stereotype, but generally speaking, I think that our campus has a pretty accurate view on the different GLO's.

XOXO,
Annie.

I really like this thread :)

My sorority is the only NPC around here,for now anyways, and we are seen as uptight because of the National/NPC guidelines. We follow them but the backlash can be difficult.
However, we have created a warm sisterhood that reaches a lot of diverse women. We are always working to ensure those relationships and despite the rumors about our following rules (ie, not drinking with letters on) we pledged to, we have been having an increased membership because we don't haze, we watch out for eachother and that is a stronger message than, we have cute shirts. (Which we do by the way;) )
I love the underdog I guess. It is definalty my home :)
Tau Lovin'
Lil E

I selected my sorority because I liked the women the most of any other group. I didn't even think of reputation. I just wanted to have a nice group of friends to be my home away from home.

I have to admit that before I pledged Phi Sigma Sigma I was under the impression that the girls of my chapter were the dorks of the greek system on my campus. However, once I met a few of the girls and decided to pledge I realized that not only are they NOT dorks, they are by far the most diverse and sincere group on campus, and that alone was enough to gain my respect, and my interest in the group. :)





[COLOR=blue] Once a Phi Sig, Always a Phi Sig.

I totally agree with this.

It really is funny how MANY different reputations a single sorority can have. Ask 10 people, you could easily get 10 different responses.

As a freshman, you have the hometown buzz. Here, almost everyone is a legacy to two or three sororities. Of COURSE our area will view these at the "best", because that is the mind set...NO EXCEPTION! Then, you get to campus and you hear the fraternity version. They certainly have a different criteria on which they base their opinion as do independents and other sororities. So, the PNM has all these images playing in her head and it really does make keeping an open mind difficult. So, she chooses a group and discovers that once the hubbub of recruitment is over, a different image emerges...the REAL deal.
They ALL have sweet, nerdy, popular, sweet, "bitchy", sticks, curves, skanky, prudish women as sisters. Yes, the percentage may vary, but variety still remains.

My daughter made a lot of sense when she said you have the top, you have the bottom and you have all the rest. This is a VERY different opinion/image than what she was told prior to rush. She never was the kind to need a safety net that following the crowd could have offered. She never needed to have others validate her. Though I know she may not have been comfortable in a struggling situation, I also know she wouldn't have been comfortable where so much importance is put on physical as opposed to inner beauty. (That is her nature) You will ALWAYS have those young ladies who can only find their happiness through their associations. Yet, it seems to me that many women of today are finding strength and fulfillment in choosing inner over outer beauty. An important point.

This is where we (GLOs) lose a lot of women who would be wonderful assets to any sorority, yet they are stuck with some outdated image that is perhaps propagated through our own system! To put it bluntly, some of the qualities that TEND to go hand in had with a "top" sorority aren't real turn-ons to a lot of girls. Not everyone has money-laminates-tans-gets her nails done-wears designer labels- but this is the image they have in their mind. These are images that are weakening the whole. The strength of the Greek system does NOT lie in the hands of the "top".(Though many would argue this point.) It lies in the strength of those middle, down to earth, mixed up, crazy fun loving groups of girls. These are the people whose image should be associated with Greek. Maybe, rush as well as retention would pick up for more campuses if young women would realize that they really can identify with the majority of women in sororities.
Just an opinion.

jam....awesome as always!!
 

justamom,
That is the best thing I have read on this subject, well, ever. Can we please clone you and put you in all our national offices, panhellenics and school administrations so everyone gets the message? :D

Reputation is as reputation does.
When I went through rush, I was under the impression that I had to be in XY sorority because most of my friends were in it. So, I didn't even look at AB and LM. However, after the first night, I realized how uncomfortable I would be so I decided to find out what some of my guy friends thought about each of the sororities. Of course, they explained XY is the rich girls, the pretty girls, the promiscuous girls, the bitchy girls, the only sorority that really mattered when it came to getting laid, etc. AB was the sexy girls but totally laidback and easygoing or as one guy friend put it 'the Jennifer Aniston of sororities'. LM was the sorority that you couldn't get into unless you were buried in the books 24/7. I knew that LM would cut me. However, I had AB and XY.
And though XY walked away with half of the girls in rush and I walked in AB with 6 other girls, by the end of the semester XY lost all but 2 girls. Girls who didn't want to be known as XY. So, I love my choice.

Well... the joke in my chapter is that at my school "you've got the snobs and the dorks, we're the obvious choice."
I mean sure it's hard not to be lured by the "popular" group during rush with everyone talking about how they SOOO want to join it, I agonized over my decision for quite a while. As fuzzie said sometimes it's just a matter of "gee, I wonder if they would even take me"
I think there is a difference between joining a house that is unpopular, and joining a house with a "bad rep" I can safely say I would not join a house with a bad rep, (well depending on what it was bad for) but I would join an unpopular house. I know most of the time bad rep and unpopularity go hand in hand but, at my school that isn't necessarily true. My chapter isn't the most popular, but we definitely don't have a bad rep. We are the down to earth, well rounded, kind, chapter with strong sisterhood, and we get along with the other two chapters on campus. In fact it was soo funny one night a sister and I were at the bar and one of the girls from XYZ comes up to us, says hi and all that good stuff, then says " so, we want to do a panelenic girls night out with us and your chapter, and I guess we'll have to invite ABC" then not 15 minutes later an ABC comes up to us and is all "we want to have a girls night out with you girls, and I guess we'll invite the XYZ's" hehehe it was pretty funny.
It's actually kinda funny because I've had girls and guys a like tell us they don't understand why we didn't do better during formal rush... (we took 5 or 6 the other two chapters took quota which was 17) But that's ok because one chapter that took 17 ended up with only 9 ( the EXACT number we ended up with after we COB'd) because their new members said the chapter wasn't having any events... and they kinda did some crafty stuff to make the new member dues seem lower.
Hind sight is 20/20 holds true for when you join a sorority. From the inside it's much easier to see the good points and bad points of every chapter, as well as what parts of the multitude of thigns you'ver heard from people are true.

My little sis had a roommate from one of the larger sororities on campus. This woman was double legacy of the chapter, and so she was really pressured to go that way. And in "really pressured" I mean her mom told her that she'd either join that sorority or none at all. Anyway, she looked at my roommate one day and asked, "You actually like your sorority, don't you?" This kinda proves to me that the grass is greener sometimes. The thing is, it goes both ways. Ask girls in a small chapter if they would join a large chapter, they'd say it just wasn't them, and ask girls in a large chapter if they'd join a small chapter, and they'd say it just wasn't them. Here's the other thing that frustrates me sometimes.... do the letters make the girls or do the girls make the letters? I'm fully convinced that whether I put on a DG jersey in the morning or an XYZ jersey in the morning, I'm still the same person, so why are we so hung up on reputations of sororities? I mean, to a certain extent it is true... it says something that I felt like I had the most in common with the DG's that I put them number one on my bid card, but that doesn't mean that I fit into the perfect mold stereotype of what people might think DG is. Anyway, that's the point of view from a girl who's wonderfully happy with her chapter. :)

UCLAgirl,

I feel bad for your friend, but when you are dealing with big $$$ and lots of members like UCLA sororities are, ALWAYS GET IT IN WRITING.

The pull of popularity
 

>I'm fully convinced that whether I put on a DG jersey in the morning or an XYZ jersey in the morning, I'm still the same person

I'm sure this is true of you, but I'm not convinced it's true of every 18-year-old. I know that I changed enormously during college. I think the average freshman has the capacity to grow in a number of directions, depending on her environment. Freshmen look to their upperclass friends to teach them how to be a college woman. If they are surrounded by snobbish glamour girls who encourage them to act like princesses, they may end up with a very different character four years later than they would have if they were surrounded by an open-minded and humble crowd.

I've certainly known friends who were accepted into a "snotty" group or an "elite" college and never associated with any of their lesser friends again. On the one hand, it's easy to say that they were never my friends in the first place. On the other hand, I'm not sure that's true. We all have good and bad qualities to our character. But which qualities control our behavior, and when, has a lot to do with what we see other people doing.

Don't we think that sororities can have a positive influence on character? Don't we agree that being exposed to high ideals and surrounded by supportive friends can change a new member for the better? It works in reverse, too. Those letters on a new member's jersey, and the sisters they represent, may have a meaningful impact on the woman she becomes...sometimes for good and sometimes, unfortunately, for ill.

Ivy

I totally agree with IvySpice. I've seen close friends, very much alike, go through rush, and join very different houses. As the years passed, you could see how they became different, both in superficial and more meaningful ways. Heck, there were even identical twins one year who joined different houses (and I'm pretty sure it was their choice). As freshmen, I couldn't tell them apart, but by their junior year, you knew who was who without letters on, just because they had adapted to the style of their sororities.

This may be a superficial matter of how much makeup you wear or how much you dress up, but I believe the personality changes are equally big, if less obviously quantifiable. I don't think I could have gone into college and come out anything, but I could have come out any of several things, and my choice of chapter - and joining a sorority at all - helped maked me the thing I did become.

Amen.

While we don't really have the hometown buzz up here, I 100% agree with reputation depending on the person you're talking to. I didn't join the most popular chapter on campus at the time because there was NO way I wanted to be there. Period. While a lot of guys thought they were "hot," they were also THAT image that turns off most girls - stuck up, vain, promiscuous, etc. - and many times, they had no problems proving that reputation was well-deserved.

I joined an "average" house and it was the best fit for me. While I am glad I wasn't in a smaller chapter - since I think it's much harder on the members sometimes with all the responsibility spread on fewer shoulders - had a smaller, less popular chapter been a better fit, I would've gone there. But the funny thing was, depending on the individual you were talking too, we weren't necessarily the "average" house. Some people loved us, some hated us, some thought we were nerdy, some thought we were the fat sorority, some thought we were alcoholics, whatever. But I'd rather prove I'm not nerdy than have a REALLY bad reputation to prove wrong.

And the even funnier thing about reputations - which I doubt many 18 year olds consider - is how quickly they can change. One pledge class can change a chapter completely, for better or for worse.

The chapter of my college fraternity already was suffering from a bad reputation on campus by the time Ipledged for many reasons.

First, we were the northernmost fraternity on 'North Greek' in OU's Greek community, far from the action of the more established fraternities and sororities further south in 'North Greek' and the unofficial community of 'South Greek'. In olden days we were one of the more popular fraternities on campus but the demolition of the old house (which was formerly the Gamma Phi Beta house) and the building of a new one began the long decline of Alpha Sig at OU.

The new house was a novel (and radical at the time) experiment in Greek housing. The house was built as an apartment complex with the idea that if membership levels were down the unoccupied apartments could be rented to non-members. We had no formal social room (though there were plans to have them done, they were never built) and it wasn't very long before we were dubbed 'the apartment dwellers' in OU's Greek community.

Our numbers were very small compared to the 80-100 member-strong houses of older fraternities -- and we didn't appeal to many during rush. The most we had at the house when I pledged was probably about 15.

Like many houses at the time, alcohol and drug abuse was rampant. I think I must have spent my pledge period drunk out of my mind or stoned out of my skull. Since we were very small, we barely registered on the radar screen of OU's administration. Needless to say, our grades were rock bottom.

But being a smaller fraternity on campus made for a closer friendship that I didn't quite feel when I rushed the larger houses. The pressure to go Greek at OU was (and still is) high, and OU doesn't make things easier by forcing freshmen under 21 to live in the dorms until they have earned 24 credit hours.

In response to the person who said that if you asked ten people you would get ten different responses:

As I mentioned in another thread at my school a book was published that laid out several people's vision of sororities reputations. This was bad for several reasons. For one thing, some of what was written was downright cruel. One group of girls was called "museum statues" and another a "second-tier sorority". While what was said about my house was not so bad, comparatively, it was misrepresentative of my house as a whole, as it only described one portion of my house.

We have deferred rush and I think it would have been better had we had rush first thing. I went into it knowing a lot of stereotypes and I am sorry to say, it affected my recruitment, even though now many of these stereotypes have been proven untrue.