Hmm . . .
 

I might be AKA, I might be DST
But after what I went through on line
I HATE my sorority
Would you like to talk over a cup of tea?
My damn sorors degraded and humiliated me
Red and white or pink and green
whatever the case, crossing those sands made me Mean

I'm so sorry you came in under some fools...
Degradation?? Humiliation?? That's not cool...
You're filled with anger, and that's not good
Sororities should equal Sisterhood

This must be a joke...if it is not, might I suggest you talk to your sorors offline.




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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

relax, relate, RELEASE!

-whitley gilbert

Ooooooh, Dstbrat: You brought back some MEMORIES with that quote! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

Olivia-396: I really and truly don't know what to say. I hope you can one day let go of the anger (it will take time) and find it in your heart to contribute positively to your organization. However, that's a decision you have to make on your own.

Good Luck!

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Sincerity, Loyalty, Unity
Sigma Lambda Upsilon: Hasta La Muerte!

[This message has been edited by Serenity (edited June 18, 2000).]

If this is the case, you need to turn them into their nationals. They will recieve a punishment they deserve.

I think she is just trying to start more drama. DSTbrat, that was a good one! I agree.

Oh no, Soror, this is a very serious matter.

Well, then if it is a serious matter then you should take appropriate action. There is nothing that we can do to assist you here. So, what is the point?

Obviously, you are looking for attention and or want to bring more negativity to the forum. You are truly immature and need to grow up.

If you had dignity and respect for yourself to begin with, then no one can degrade or humiliate you unless you allow them to.


[This message has been edited by AKAtude (edited June 19, 2000).]

I agree with AKAtude. You should really bring this situation up with your Sorors instead of putting this information on a public board for the world to read. Maybe one of them can help you with your bitterness about your process and help you overcome it. That's what true sisterhood is about and I am sure they will be there for you. Don't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

ZetaAce

I agree with AKAtude and Zeta Ace. This is something that needs to be discussed with those directly involved. I suggest you practice discretion with your problem because if you posted it here, you probably have told others and posted it on other websites.

mgdzkm433- the one thing about her turning "sorors" in to the national headquarters, is she may face disciplinary actions herself for allowing these things to happen and not reporting them.

[This message has been edited by c&c1913 (edited June 19, 2000).]

OLIVIA IF SOMETHING BAD REALLY DID HAPPEN TO YOU THEN I AM SORRY YOU ALLOWED YOURSELF TO BE PUT THROUGH THAT. YOU REFERRED TO ONE OF THESE LADIES AS "SOROR" SO ONE WOULD HAVE TO THINK THAT YOU OBVIOUSLY WENT THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCESS AND CROSSED. IF IT WAS AS BAD AND SERIOUS AS YOU CLAIMED THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST DROP? EVERYONE IS RIGHT YOU SHOULD DEF TAKE IT UP WITH THOSE THAT YOU HAD THE PROBLEM WITH. I DO NOT KNOW ABOUT REPORTING THOUGH CAUSE LIKE C&C SAID YOU WENT THROUGH IT AND YOU PARTICIPATED SO YOU WOULD PROBABLY GET IN TROUBLE TOO. THIS PUBLIC FORUM IS REALLY NOT THE PLACE TO DISCUSS SOMETHING SO PERSONAL, ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU ALLOWED THE NAME OF THE ORG TO COMEOUT ALSO. THIS IS YOU AND YOUR ORGS PERSONAL BUSINESS. IF YOU LET SOME PEOPLE DEGRADE AND HUMILIATE YOU THEN YOU ARE TO BLAME ALSO DON'T YOU THINK? WELL I JUST WANTED TO SAY MY 10.22 CENTS.

Just one more thing, please do not assume that this person really was really initiated. I do not consider this person my soror regardless of what she says. I've seen this same scenario played out on other websites and the end result is usually the same. The person making such claims ends up being nothing more than a perp or a hater attempting to stir up something. I'm glad that most people agree with my previous comments.

By the way, has anyone noticed the icon Olivia chose to use when posting this message? It seems a bit odd that someone with such an experience would choose that face to represent her post.

[This message has been edited by AKAtude (edited June 19, 2000).]

Olivia_396,
Assuming that this is serious and not a joke post, what is it that you would like us to do about it? I think this is something that you should report to your National Headquarters. We can't help you here! Are you looking for a sounding board, advice? What exactly are looking for?

1: I don't believe she is a sorority member http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif because she would handle her business among her sisters and trot out some childish rhyme. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif

2: it's probably another ploy to start controversy

3: Debbie Allen first uttered that melodic phrase, in her role as Whitley's counselor http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

4: Yeah, I've got waaay too much time on my hands tonight http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

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@~~^~~~~
Subtlety is the key ;o)

For Olivia (and for anyone who knows)...
Would it be possible for you to disassociate with your sorority--like, rescind your membership? Honestly, if it's making you that unhappy, I would suggest cutting the sorority from your life altogther. I have heard, however, that NPHC groups do not allow disassociation. If this is true, why?

I'm writing this for the perspective that Olivia_396 is a member of a sorority.

To all,

Cutting herself off from the sorority would not solve the problem. The hurt would still be there and she'd only be running from the issue. The thing to do, as others have said, would be to sit down with the women whom she feels have wronged her. I'm not saying today or tomorrow, but at some point in time, she needs to deal with these women and the pain she feels. In the meantime, this woman needs to allow herself to be surrounded by the THOUSANDS of POSITIVE members in her sorority. She needs to know that yes, what happened was inappropriate but it is by no means representative of the organization. This is not a time for the members to turn their backs on her, NOR is time for her to turn her back on the rest of the membership. It is a time to embrace her and show her what TRUE SISTERHOOD is and should be. It is a time for her to remember the words of the OATH that she took, of her own free will, to maintain a LIFETIME COMMITMENT to her sorority. The notion that she should just disassociate herself from something she wanted as a result of something she allowed to happen is, in MY OPINION, excuse my french, BULLSHIT. I don't know how anyone else treats their family, their SISTERS, their SORORS, but I don't let mine walk away when are hurting. I don't let them turn their back on me. I don't let them walk away with out resolving the issue.

"When my sister's in trouble, so am I."

And I'm done.

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Kelli
12-DN-94
SSU c/o 1997

I think I'll let her walk away.

Or at least advise her to get some therapy.

WELL SAID http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif 12dn94DST, http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

If Olivia_396 is honestly a member of an organization, and now she his filled with bitterness and hate towards her sisters she really does have a problem http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif

Olivia_396 please remember that your oranization is bigger than just where you pledged. There are a lot of people who love their sorority sisters ans their sorority.

As for those people who planted the seed of distrust,hate, and bitterness, you just need to separate yourself. Separate yourself only if you can't talk to them, to let them know how you feel!!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

So please pray on that bitterness, because life is to short!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Unfortunately, most of the people involved with this discussion are ignoring the bigger problem. HAZING!!!! Let's be honest ladies...how many of you WEREN'T hazed in some form or fashion while you pledged. I'm hearing a lot about "turning" offending sorors in, but I know enough women who were willing to put up with ANYTHING just so that they wouldn't be called "PAPER" by other sororities and fraternities! Most women pledge when they are young, and pardon the expression, stupid. All they see are letters and colors. Most do not gain perspective about their sorority until they have graduated and are out in the real world a while. Most pledges don't want to chicken out or seen as a loser, or worse a traitor, and so they do nothing. Ladies....there is serious abuse going on out there. And it's happening on most campuses and in all types of sororities - NPC, NPHC, Latina, Asian, and Multicultural! We need to face up to this fact and deal with it.

i stand corrected! i couldn't remeber her name on the show. i still can't. do you?

Excuse me, but when I pledged I was not one of the stupid young ladies you referred to. Yes, I wanted to be an AKA or nothing at all, but not at the expense of my self-respect. I am not one to allow anyone regardless of who they are to walk over me. I treat others as I expect to be treated and that is how I approach the whole initiation process.

Unfortunately, the real vs. paper issue still remains with us, but that does not apply to everyone because we do not all think the same way. That is being stereotypical. If you encounter people who are willing to put up with anything just to gain acceptance or to belong to a particular organization, then they need to take a look at themselves and become stronger individuals.

Micheal,

I've expressed the opinion earlier if in fact her claim is true, this is a serious matter and she should take appropriate action. There is nothing that we can do for her here. If she wants to discuss the incident privately, my e-mail is available and I'll respond to her. Otherwise, I have to ask what is the point? All we can say is report the incident and seek some kind of help.

It is difficult for me to show sympathy to someone who claims to be a member of a sorority and posts this information in the form of a poem. At the same time, they have chosen to use the grinning icon to express their emotion. If this person were really angry, then why laugh about it? I guess they must have a good or warped sense of humor.




[This message has been edited by AKAtude (edited June 20, 2000).]

I always find it interesting that when people express misgiving about being hazed after the fact that people always blame the victim because they 'knew what to expect.' There is a very interesting film about the Challenger explosion of the mid-80s that explorers the psychological notion of 'group think' that I think could easily be applied to what happens in sorority/fraternity hazing incidents. In a nut shell the film showed how one of the engineers KNEW that the Challenger had some serious flaws, but his desire to maintain group cohesion was so strong that heallowed his collegues erroneous opinions to go forth, which ultimately led to the disaster. It was a chilling film, and I encourage all greeks or potential greeks to watch it before participating in membership intake. If these 40 + year old men, with multiple engineering degrees found them selves the victim of groupthink, can we honestly say that 18, 19, and 20 year old people 'knew what they were getting into?"

Micheal,

I've expressed the opinion earlier if in fact her claim is true, this is a serious matter and she should take appropriate action. There is nothing that we can do for her here. If she wants to discuss the incident privately, my e-mail is available and I'll respond to her. Otherwise, I have to ask what is the point? All we can say is report the incident and seek some kind of help.

It is difficult for me to show sympathy to someone who claims to be a member of a sorority and posts this information in the form of a poem. At the same time, they have chosen to use the grinning icon to express their emotion. If this person were really angry, then why laugh about it? I guess they must have a good or warped sense of humor.

My Sister,

You have great style in expressing your words. It makes me proud to have you as a sister.

Post Script: I am sure you are a ball of fire!!!!

Best Regards
M.L
Phi Lambda
"06"

I doubt if you are AKA or DST
But all I feel is pitty for thee,
If you have a problem, deal with it at the source,
And should this not fufill you, then try another course,
But your words are tired, and probably not even true,
As I said before, I have nothing but pitty for you.

Look...I'm not saying that every single women out there is stupid when (or because) she pledged. What I am saying however is hazing is real...and it comes in all forms. Many think hazing is simply being harmed physically. What about mentally? What about be yelled at as if your a child? What about having to stay up all night even if you have class the next day? What about being told not to speak to other people, or not to look at other sorors, or even be able to go to the bathroom when you need to? For many people..that's just being on line. For others, that's abuse. Where is the line drawn? Do chapters take the time to find out what their pledges limits are? I personally knew of a young woman who had been verbally abused as a child. While on line she nearly had a nervous breakdown because the women kept getting in her face and yelling at her. And though the organization would have truly benefited from her being a member (she was carrying a 4.0 gpa, was a star soccer player, and a classical pianist), she couldn't hack it and dropped line. It was not only a terrible experience for her, but a great loss for the sorority!

We have had this discussion so many times in the past. All I can say is that not all chapters are alike because the members in a particular chapter creates its "personality", if you will. As I stated before, I treat people the way I would want to be treated.
No one yelled in my face, and if they did I would have yelled back. No one ever hit me because we wouldn't even get that far. I had a positive experience while on line. That is probably the reason why all of my line sisters and sorors who initiated me keep in touch to this day. I love them as though they are my biological sisters. I'm sorry everyone can't say the same.

PhoenixGrad,

I understand your point. However, there is a time when we must become accountable for our own actions. This is not "placing the blame on the victim" as someone stated, but simply understanding our own personal boundaries and not putting ourselves in situations where we feel comprimised (for lack of a better word).

As college students (17-21+), most of us knew the difference between right and wrong. No matter what decision we made or the factors that contributed to our decision making, we knew the difference between right and wrong and made our decision accordingly. We may have regretted that decision later on, but ultimately it was our choice to begin with.

I know sometimes there is some gray area. Not everything is black and white. However, even posed with a dilemma you can make a choice that is, at the very least, bearable.

Before I went on line, I didn't know step-by-step what was going to take place - no one does. However, I knew EXACTLY what I WASN'T going to do to earn my letters and I stuck by that. I think most of us do.


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Sincerity, Loyalty, Unity
Sigma Lambda Upsilon: Hasta La Muerte!



[This message has been edited by Serenity (edited June 20, 2000).]

Well...I'm glad to hear there are so many astute young ladies out there.

PhoenixGrad,

I believe that we all know that hazing is real, and yes there are different types of hazing. But why would I have to go to each of my potentials and say, "Now Johnny, if I yell at you will I hurt your feelings", maybe I am not being fair in this discussion, becuase I personally believe in pledging, and I wont't appolagize for it. And as defined by law, almost anything that I do to a potential would be hazing, from talking to, not talking to, cutting my eyes the wrong way, whatever.

I trully feel sorry for what happend to the young lady, if it did actually happen. But my thing is, EVERYONE knows before hand that some things might, will, can possibly be done to you that you might find objectionable, offensive, and painfull. As an individual you have to decide, is this what I really want? If the answer is no, then I have more respect for the person who says, "I don't want this, and this is not for me," as opposed to someone who gets on a chat board with a bunch of strangers and says a stupid ass poem. No offense ment, but thats just the way I feel.

If I tell you, "I am going to whip your behind when you go on line", then the decision is up to you. As an adult, you have to make the decision what is best for you. What we haven't really talked about here on this board are the hundreds of people who look to the Fraternities and Sororities to pay thier bills. Lets talk about the people who go on line with the hope of getting hazed so that they can sue the frat or sorrority and get payed! Now I may get some hate mail for this, but like I always say, yawl don't know me, so I really don't give a damn.

I am firm believer in suing a person if I have been wronged, but if someone tells me before hand, that this pot is hot and I may get burned, and I still touch it, then I can't blame them, now can I. It's all about personal responsibility folks.

You can send all hate mail to:

Ireallydon'tgiveaflyingf##k@whooooocares.com

Peace and Luv

Ummmm, ManndingoNupe, I tried emailing you at the above address and........LOL! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Sincerity, Loyalty, Unity
Sigma Lambda Upsilon: Hasta La Muerte!

Since this young lady has more than insinuated that she is a member of my illustrious sorority, I feel obligated to respond (and also to have Soror AKAtude's back). Let me preface this by saying IF THIS IS EVEN REAL, this young lady has issues that do not need to be aired on this public forum. Yes, I pledged and as others have said, there were just some things I wasn't going to go for and I didn't. I have never understood how someone voluntarily comes back every night (or however often), continues throughout the entire process and then decide that they are bitter about what they allowed to happen to them. Why not drop after the first bad experience? I was a psychology major, so I understand that whole "groupthink" theory. I just don't think it applies to this situation. If this young lady did do it because "everybody else was", then that constitutes weak-mindedness in my book and I don't think that weak-minded people have a place in Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority anyway. So, like my Soror said, "I think I'll let her walk away."



[This message has been edited by SkeeBunny (edited June 20, 2000).]

I must agree with MandingoNupe. People have an idea of what is going to happen when they plege, so why do they act so surprised?!

I don't want to take this forum to another topic, because I feel that this girl wether or not she is a member for real hasd problems that need to be discussed and worked on. However, as far as the hazing and stupidity thing that you are speaking about, I think that every person has a different idea of hazing and personally I beleive thatthere is a difference between hazing and pledging. Hazing is unacceptable, but pledging is not only nessary but also productive in my opinion. I am not trying to start a debate or anything, I just think some things, (like defined study time and meetings with your line sisters) help you in the long run, but many believe that that is hazing and I don't

Back to the point, I hope that is this is a joke you would realize that it is not funny and if it is not a joke then go get help and talk to your sorors.

I agrre with you completely, what would make you continue to go to meat with these people after the first bad experience if it was that terrible.

Is this a joke??? I'm not going to respond with anything as lengthy as previous responses, because everyone has basically hit the point. My only question is-what the hell are you: AKA or DST??? It sounds bogus to me...

It sounds bogus to me too. Why has this person only posted 2 times. If she has serious problems or matters going on and she wanted to share them with EVERYONE, then why hasn't she posted anymore?

GET A LIFE!

why are we so quick to lay blame at someone's feet? regardless of your age when you pledge, everything is a choice. if you allow someone to mistreat you whose fault is it? schools are going the extra mile to inform students of the ramifications of participating in such activities. national orgs are taking legal and financila stands against hazing. everyone involved in hazing has made a conscious choice to do so. that is why both hazers and hazees are punished because everyone knows that it is wrong. if you do it anyway, then you have to take responsibility for that as well. when will we start holding everyone accountable for their actions?