The Institution Called Marriage
 

After reading the postings on Cheating, I am really wondering what ever happened to two people falling in love, getting married, having children and growing old together. It is a shame that we have become so focused on the "norm" of cheating that we no longer respect the GOD-ordained institution of marriage. I am wondering...Am I strange or an outkast, because I want to meet Mr. Right and get married? Not only do I want to marry him, but I want to stay COMPLETED committed and love him until "death" parts us. Is that thought process gone in the new Millenium?

Shireen, I really feel you on that post. I don't feel there is a problem with men and women dating but I do have a problem with people who lie or lead their mate to believe that the relationship is exclusive. I just want honesty, nowadays that even seems hard for people to do. I think a lot of time, heartache and pain would be saved if people were just plain honest. One thing I do have to say Shireen is that just because people cheat doesnt mean they don't respect the institution of marriage, now if they cheated while married or engaged then i would say you are completely right. I think more so some people don't respect the relationship and the person they chose to have one with.
I'm a one man woman, I just wish more of the men I meet felt the same way.

Peace and Blessings to All

YA'LL BETTER SPEAK! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

I have read some of the replies. I agree about being honest. Honesty hurts either way. To me, it hurts more to catch your "man" in the bed with a woman than for him to just say "I am not in love with you anymore." So, for all of you brothers just be honest and let the woman go if you don't want to be straight. As for marriage and dating, there is a similarity in cheating. If you cheat in an exclusive relationship, you will be very likely to cheat in a marriage. It is a learned behavior. I am trying to help my male friends understand that you have to start being committed in relationships first, before you even think about saying "I DO." Those words don't make magic occur. You have start behaving NOW!

Ape, I have no problem with your scenario in fact many people I know go through the stages you described. I'm not oppossed to much of what you said on that post. All I can say is that if a relationship is important to both, then they will do what they can to make sure its healthy and happy. As far as boredom is concerned, (I can only speak for myself.)i feel that friendship is important. If I or any man or woman can keep a best friend for most of our lives and never get bored or lose excitement in their company then why should that be any different in a relationship. Most of the couples I've been around have successful relationships because they are the best of friends.
What happened to if you care about someone you Make time. I have a friend in a wonderful relationship,her boyfriend always goes on business trips. One night he suprised her with a midnight picnic full of candles,flowers and her favorite music. She was in bed at the time so she woke up not looking her best but she says that he made her feel like the most beautiful woman in the world. Curlers and All. Since then everytime they are apart from eachother they keep a journal of all their thoughts in general and of one another. When they see eachother they switch journals, so when the person is about to leave again they read what the other person wrote. (I think its a great form of communication for long distance relationships) In her book she has added pictures, taken excerpts from other nice love letters and so on. She pasted a scent of her perfume on a page of his book. Writes him surprise notes and letters etc.. When they have children they plan on showing their books to the kids. They've been together for 5 years and still very much in love.
As far as honesty is concerned. No one said that being honest is painless. I also don't feel that asking for honesty is unrealistic. I perfer being told the truth than to believe someone I love doesnt love me anymore. If its an affair then no man or woman should be robbed of the opportunity to choose whether they want to stay and work things out or leave. Yes I would be hurt, there is no doubt about that but I would at least have the opportunity to heal and eventually move on.
Maybe you are right maybe some women let themselves go after they have the relationship they wanted but you can't tell me that the statement doesnt hold true for some men as well.


Honesty shouldnt be something you have to ask for, it should be one of the things that special someone possess. Not just because it means something to you but because its an important attribute for themselves.

Amen Shireen

Dear Sista,

I don't speak for all of the bruthas, but I'm many of them reading this can agree to some of this-as well as many of you.

When a relationship begins, both people are in the "impress me" stage. Everything they choose to say or do to each other is calculated/planned; they THINK about it before they say/do-because they want to appear to be "right", or to impress one another. After the relationship jels, the need to impress declines and they begin to be their true selves around each other. As more time passes, they tend to take one another's feelings for granted. Many times the things that both parties did to make the other person commit to the relationship cease(specifically the romance); then one or the other person gets bored. It becomes routine. When one person senses things have changed for the worse yet wants to salvage it, they immediately suggest that we "do something different for a change". They ask this many times at inopportune times for the other person; and because the other person can't do it at the requested time or the requested way, it is interpreted as a lack of care/desire. Then, there is a decline in desire to continue the relationship.

It is at this point that talking honestly is critical. If they don't, trust will become an issue; then it will end.

Many ladies say "all I want is that a man be honest". When he is, it hurts JUST AS MUCH.
It doesn't matter if this honesty you seek involves the confession of affair; it could simply involve the loss of love for you. It all hurts the same. And guess what? IT HURTS US TOO!!! Many times bruthas don't want to leave the woman in their lives. But many women change when they get a committment from a many they wanted; they take the relationship for granted. They don't keep themselves up, and use sex as a tool of revenge when they don't get their way. For every action, there is a reaction. There is a cause, and an effect. We all, both men and women, have to be honest about our actions-even if it hurts.

You already knew this; I hope bringing it to the forefront of you mind at this time was helpful.

I'm with everyone. But why is it that as soon as you commit everyone wants to hit on you and destroy your relationship. Lately, I feel as though I have bumper sticker across my chest and on my car saying committed. Seemingly, every sister in town wants to give me some play. And I must admit, sometimes it's h a r d to turn my head (lol).

Sorry to just bust in like this, but I was reading this post and decided to tell you about an interesting thing that I just noticed. I'm 22 years old and a lot of my friends have already graduated college (I'm a senior). Well, this summer, I attended three weddings and I noticed that both the bride and groom were under the age of twenty-five. It seems that a lot of young black professionals are getting married right out of college. Maybe marrige and commitment are coming back into style!

-Teresa

Teresa...not necessarily. When I was out of college in 93, alot of people I knew were getting married EARLY. SOME of them are miserable...when I see one or the other, they are like...DANG...I wish I had it like you...SINGLE AND FREE!

PROFESSOR...It's ALWAYS like that...when you are with someone, EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOTHER wants you, but when you don't have anyone...NOONE KNOWS YOU EXIST. THAT'S JUST THE WAY OF THE WORLD!

Many sistas really DON'T want the truth-for a variety of reasons. Some just want to know cause they outright nosy; some want to know so they can actually make up their minds on what they're gonna do. The assumption here is that the man IS guilty; and THAT'S what doomed this conversation from the start. Suppose most of the evidence adds up to yo man clownin', but you find out that ALL of your suspicions were wrong. How would you feel? How would you try and repair the relationship?

I agree whole-heartedly with you. I would add though that friends can remain friends like that(for long periods of time) probably because they haven't been intimate with each other; if they have, they must've established an understanding BEFORE THEY TOOK IT THERE. Even after it goes there, some men AND women can't comply with the established agreement because they already know the other person has proven themselves to be their best friend, and doing what comes natural sometimes can complicate things no matter what agreement they have.

I know yall have been off this topic for a couple of days now, but I have to take it there ...b/c some of the other post on this board about cheating and what's wrong with women are too long and BOUND to upset me and I won't be able to cheerfully contribute. Anyway, i just wanted to say I believe wholeheartedly in the institution of Marriage and I can't wait for the right (notice I did not say perfect) MAN to come along. A couple of key things that no one mentioned in any great detail are: Love, respect and communication. I have seen honesty bought up but what about the other three. And what about understanding. If two people get together and plan to stay together it would behoove them to get the respect, communication and understanding thing down pat, but LOVE is the end all. I can't quote the bible verse cause I don't have a bible at work, but LOVE is what makes or breaks you.

And Original, I read and reread all your post and I agree it is not always the man's fault but you faked the funk with your "we, women, don't really want to hear the truth thing", and the bit about "honesty hurts" .... but we were talking about friendship a couple of post ago and the worst way to end any type of relationship is to LIE & CHEAT! I always want to be told the truth, it goes back to respecting the person you are with! Now, I could be misinterpreting stuff, I was reading quickly and now trying to run out of work...... ;-) maybe we can chat more

[This message has been edited by LadyAKA (edited October 18, 2000).]

Sorry for the double post, but I really wanted to talk about MARRIAGE AND LOVE the way it used to be. Shireen you are right I think in this day and age things have changed and for the worst!!
LOVE is getting buried with your mate. I know death is something we don't causally talk about, but my grandmother and grandfather got buried together, that is deep when people love each other so much that they buy plots together. Mind you my grandfather died the year I was born, (197something) ;-) and my G-MA (yeah that is what I call her) just passed away four short years ago. Can anyone testify to that type of love - not now-a-days, I don't think so.
Gosh now I am almost crying at work .....

Lady AKA you are 100% where I am at. What happened to old-fashioned love? Men nowadays, especially where I am, are like a rare gem. The men with education, money and looks are either married players or single players. They are rare so women are willing to share. If a man can get all of the attention from 10 females, what makes him commit to 1? Thats the problem...Productive men don't want to get married anymore. It is too good to have 10-15 women at all times, rather than 1. Is that my view or do you women out there understand me?

I have to jump in on this too. Why do people think marriages are disposable today? Couples have one argument and they're ready to call their lawyers. What happened to "for better or for worse"? Maybe I am just naive because I am still single. Personally, I think the family that prays together, stays together. If God isn't present, the marriage is already on shaky ground. My aunt and uncle have been to hell and back. Both had drug problems and were doing all sorts of unspeakable things to get more drugs. But they have come a long way and will renew their vows next year for their 25th anniversary. Both of them are very active in their church and very spiritual people. My aunt told me they are happier now than they have ever been. If they can make their marriage work, I think almost anyone can.
What do you all think?

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We often give our enemies the means for our own destruction.

Aesop c550 BC

I agree on two counts for the last couple of post. 1) I do see that a lot of male friends that are so called professional have many women, and mind you most of them are either married or engaged to be married... I said I see the point, and I am not blaming men alone because women are obviously playing into this and going along with it.

And I agree with Midwestdiva, in that we really need some praying up in our lives. Not everyone bows down to the same god, but we need to realize that we did not get here alone. A strong base religion and spirituality counts for a lot in this world. It sure helps me out in all areas of my life.

I just have to say Amen... to Midwestdiva, LadyAKA and Shireen on the last few posts. I am wondering what happened to the time when people worked things out, for better or for worse... and LadyAKA, I know what you're talking about, my grandmother and grandfather had plots bought together also. My grandmother passed away when I was 4, 1979 and my grandfather in 1989. So, that is what I am talking about....What is going on with the way things are done now? I totally respect the institution of marriage.

LadyAKA, I call my grandmother, G-Ma as well!!!

I want the topic to marinate for a minute before I post anything...But I do have one question...Have any of you read "Men Cry in the Dark" by Michael Baisen, and if so, what did you think of his portrayal of relationships, and cheating?

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'Cause I'm a woman,
Phenomenally
Phenomenal Woman
That's me

Maya Angelou

I have not read the book, it sounds interesting. Onesavvydiva, once you've finished marinating :-) please tell us about it ...

Okay, I know I wasn't formally invited but I did want to add my .02 cents.

What I've noticed lately has been a very encouraging trend to me. My husband and I were married in 1996, 3 of our friends (couples) were married that same year, and about 7 of our friends have been married since that.... WE ARE ALL STILL TOGETHER.

And let me tell you, some of these couples have taken each other through some HELLACIOUS times. Everything from drug abuse, to chronic illness, from cheating, to loss of jobs, from repossession to foreclosure and we have all managed to hang in there.

What I hear from most of my married girlfriends (and I'll admit that I say it, too) is "Girl, I know him, he knows me, I'm not tryin' to break in nobody new." Believe it or not, I've heard the fellas say similar things.

My husband is a MASON, so we spend a great deal of time around other young marrieds. It helps. We have role models, because everybody has been married for different lengths of time, you console and commiserate with each other. I can tell you about how it was the 1st yr, somebody else can tell me how it is the 7th.

The bottom line is that marriage takes work. It really has to be understood and taken as what it is, or it can be very easy to get into an "I'm quitting you!!!" situation when times get trying.

I've been reading this topic for a while and decided to jump in. The trend in my town seems to be young people getting married.
This one couple (both people are 21) just got married back in July and are already getting a divorce. He's going back to school and she's back at home with her parents. I think the reason they got married in the first place is because they had a child out of wedlock and the girl's father is a preacher. I don't think these are valid reasons to get married, but it's just my opinion. I'll bet that this couple hasn't even finished paying for the wedding.

My cousin is getting married next June. She's 21 and the groom is 20. Based on our conversations, I've come to the conclusion that she is getting married 1)because she doesn't think she can find anyone else (she has low self-esteem), 2)just to say she's Mrs. so and so, and 3) to get out of her parents house. I can't see leaving one man's house to move into another.

Personally, I think I'm spiritually ready for marriage, but not financially or mentally. I think all three of these things have to be in sync with both people for a marriage to work.




[This message has been edited by c&c1913 (edited October 19, 2000).]

Well, this topic has been "marinading" so well... *Greekchatters shout in response "HOW WELL IS IT???!!*. It is so well that I had to put in my ________. *Match Game think music plays*

Rain Man LOLs
Alright, now to my sayso.

Recently I met a young lady through a fellow brother at my church. She was a saved Christian woman who currently lives in Kansas but will be moving back to my hometown in Feb. 2001. We have emailed and talked each other to death. We feel that each other is "the one" We have planned to date heavily when she moved back home and even have talked about getting married upon receiving my Master's degree (c. 2002).

Well, just yesterday, I received a very nasty email from her saying in so many words that it was over. Why? Well, she got upset at me (jokingly) tell her godfather that she calls me all the time. Her godfather told her and that was how she found out. Her email made no sense at all and I am still trying to figure it out. While I will not reveal the identity of the person in any way, if anyone is interested, I will email them a copy of what she sent me and try to figure out what she is talking about (and why she flipped out).

Nonetheless, the kicker was that I am not angry, sad, disappointed, or frustrated. Why? Because I have throughout the ordeal felt an unusual calm (God's perfect peace). I don't know if I will ever get married, but the Lord has confirmed to me (I feel) that I am ready spiritually, financially, and mentally.

Yall holla at a [non-Alpha] brother, now, yhear?

Rain Man

Well, this topic has been "marinading" so well... *Greekchatters shout in response "HOW WELL IS IT???!!*. It is so well that I had to put in my ________. *Match Game think music plays*

Rain Man LOLs
Alright, now to my sayso.

Recently I met a young lady through a fellow brother at my church. She was a saved Christian woman who currently lives in Kansas but will be moving back to my hometown in Feb. 2001. We have emailed and talked each other to death. We feel that each other is "the one" We have planned to date heavily when she moved back home and even have talked about getting married upon receiving my Master's degree (c. 2002).

Well, just yesterday, I received a very nasty email from her saying in so many words that it was over. Why? Well, she got upset at me (jokingly) tell her godfather that she calls me all the time. Her godfather told her and that was how she found out. Her email made no sense at all and I am still trying to figure it out. While I will not reveal the identity of the person in any way, if anyone is interested, I will email them a copy of what she sent me and try to figure out what she is talking about (and why she flipped out).

Nonetheless, the kicker was that I am not angry, sad, disappointed, or frustrated. Why? Because I have throughout the ordeal felt an unusual calm (God's perfect peace). I don't know if I will ever get married, but the Lord has confirmed to me (I feel) that I am ready spiritually, financially, and mentally.

Yall holla at a [non-Alpha] brother, now, yhear?

Rain Man

I'm sorry I'm just getting back to you on this. I agree; the statement holds true irrespective of gender. I really like that part about honesty.

I have a question on this topic. Is the American version of marriage THE ONLY GOD-ORDAINED VERSION? Could he also ordain a multi-wife marriage/setting?

RainMan,

Are you leaving out some vital information? Girlfriend actually broke up with you out of the blue via e-mail? You have sparked my curiosity. Please email me at Midwestdiva@Greekchat.com.

Original Ape,

You have asked a very interesting question. Do polygamists enjoy God ordained marriages? I don't think so. But if they like it, I love it.

Also, on the honesty tip, men don't like complete honesty any more than women do. I have had several men pick their shattered faces up off the floor because I chose to be honest about my feelings for them.

Could it be that some people SAY they want honesty but can't really handle it because they only want it as a result of their uncontrollable curiosity? Also, could the TIMING of the honesty magnify it's negative impact?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Original Ape:
Could it be that some people SAY they want honesty but can't really handle it because they only want it as a result of their uncontrollable curiosity? Also, could the TIMING of the honesty magnify it's negative impact?

Yes, bad timing can make matters worse. I really think that most people can't handle the truth very well. Especially if they have big egos like I do. But I also think that people usually already know the answer to these questions from which they expect complete honesty. People generally know when their mate has fallen out of love with them. The signs aren't hard to recognize.



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We often give our enemies the means for our own destruction.

Aesop c550 BC

[quote]Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:

Quote:

Originally posted by The Original Ape: Could it be that some people SAY they want honesty but can't really handle it because they only want it as a result of their uncontrollable curiosity? Also, could the TIMING of the honesty magnify it's negative impact? Yes, bad timing can make matters worse. I really think that most people can't handle the truth very well. Especially if they have big egos like I do. But I also think that people usually already know the answer to these questions from which they expect complete honesty. People generally know when their mate has fallen out of love with them. The signs aren't hard to recognize.

Being completely honest requires judgement when it comes to time. Many ladies wouldn't give a man time for a second sentence if he approached them and stated what was really on his mind. Oh yeah; that holds true for some women too.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Original Ape:
Being completely honest requires judgement when it comes to time. Many ladies wouldn't give a man time for a second sentence if he approached them and stated what was really on his mind. Oh yeah; that holds true for some women too.

Not only do we know what most men are thinking, I dare say we look forward to it. (Why do I get the feeling there will be some opposition to this statement?) He BETTER find me sexually attractive. Likewise, I need to be sexually attracted to him as well. Men tend to respond more to visual stimuli than women. But it definitely works both ways. Believe me, when a brother steps to me I am thinking to myself "Hmmmm, Can I see myself "bustin one" with him?" Sorry for the crudeness, just keeping it real.

[quote]Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:

Quote:

Originally posted by The Original Ape: Being completely honest requires judgement when it comes to time. Many ladies wouldn't give a man time for a second sentence if he approached them and stated what was really on his mind. Oh yeah; that holds true for some women too. Not only do we know what most men are thinking, I dare say we look forward to it. (Why do I get the feeling there will be some opposition to this statement?) He BETTER find me sexually attractive. Likewise, I need to be sexually attracted to him as well. Men tend to respond more to visual stimuli than women. But it definitely works both ways. Believe me, when a brother steps to me I am thinking to myself "Hmmmm, Can I see myself "bustin one" with him?" Sorry for the crudeness, just keeping it real.

Leave the flowers for people with green thumbs; I like mine straight.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Original Ape:
[B] Leave the flowers for people with green thumbs; I like mine straight.

Original Ape,

That just went way over my head...