Speak English
 

Please excuse the blutness of my subject by I am too tired...I'm from South Florida which has a huge Hispanic population. Well I came home for the holidays and I it is almost the end of my break and I want to scream. Literally in practically every store I've went to or any place I've needed service at the workers have been speaking spanish in front of the customers, if the customers are Hispanic they speak spanish to them, if they're Black like me they speak little and when they speak English it ranges from being barely understandable to knowledgeable. I respect anyone who has pride in their culture BUT ON THE JOB you are there to work, we are in America a once English colony and when in Rome.. I could understand at the job if a customer came in who spoke poor English, then by all means speak spanish you are after all there to help people. I was out shopping the next day and I went into a bakery and I asked the lady at the counter for a pastry, she did not speak English at all, it took me a second to realize that I was in a Cuban bakery and was the only black person in the place...I was so upset and I wondered how the lady was given a job without atleast making an attempt to learn English. I'm really upset about this...I have plenty of friends who don't plan on moving back home after college, they say they won't get hired because they don't speak spanish.
Hell if I went into a job interview and said I speak a little standard English but I speak Ebonics very well and could communicate with the huge Black population in the city they throw me out on my ***

Foxy, you sound very angry. You do bring up some valid points, yet, I do have to disagree with you. A LARGE amount of our population are native speakers of Spanish. Although it would be wonderful if the US would require all citizens (and immigrants for that matter) to become fluent in English before setting foot in the country, it wouldn't be fair. Many of these people are older and have never had the opportunity to learn our language. Believe it or not, English is the hardest language to learn. I still learn new things everyday. For non-native speakers of a language, the best way to learn is through total immersion.

Although I am not going to tell you to drop what you are doing and learn to speak their language, I can say that learning a few phrases of Spanish wouldn't hurt. It's actually a very nice language. I am trying to beome fluent. Not only will it be essential when travelling, it may, in fact, earn me some bonus points when looking for work. I am sure if you be patient and try to speak in their natve language, it may show them that not all Americans are as hostile and rude as they seem. It has to be hard not being able to communicate effectively. I have also seen people get down right ugly with folks that don't speak English well. Just work with them.

If you come to AmeriKKKa, and you're not an illegal alien, you need to learn English. Foreigners should be required to learn English (not necessarily fluently, but functionally).

I don't think that's too much to ask. If having to learn English (not necessarily fluently, but functionally) is too much for people, perhaps they should consider remaining in their native country...where they can speak their native tongue all day and everyday regardless of where they go.

There has to be some trade-off.

I think that it would be good to learn functional English, but some people are fleeing unsafe conditions. Is it fair to say, "Oh no. You don't know functional English, so go back to your poor, impoverished, war-torn country until you get it together. We have to work with some of these people.

No.

But, the INS and other Federal agencies need to require these individuals to take courses upon their entry into the U.S. In addition, these individuals should take basic English "tests" in order to upgrade their citizenship status (VISA, Naturalization documentation, etc.).

I agree. Some people are fleeing unsafe conditions; however, I do believe that speaking some English is pertinent to living in an English speaking country. I also think that INS should require it, not to acquire citizenship, but definitely to keep citizenship. I understand one having pride in their culture. But when you decide to become "bicultural" then you also decide to accept both cultures and that includes learning the language as well as living the life.

When immigrants come to america and apply for citizenship, there are English as a 2nd language classes availible to them.

However, I would dare to say that these types of services are not availible to ILLEGAL aliens. The only way they can learn is by total immersion.

Are there programs for illegal aliens to learn english?

Because this country has a large Chicano, Hispanic, Latino population, you actually would have an edge over any other applicants when it comes to applying for jobs and can command more money because of it. :D

The idea of "immersion" is good, but who wants to be the poor customer who has to suffer because you are unable to receive proper service because a worker cannot speak English?

If a restaurant or bakery or hardware store clearly has a certain clientele and cannot service customers who do not speak Spanish, then they should, as a courtesy, post a sign that lets potential customers know that they will be unable to assist them in English.

I am unsure if all English as a Second Language courses do background checks to weed out illegal aliens. But I do know that there are places-- the same places that English speakers can attend to learn foreign languages-- that do teach ESL classes.

The question is, do we, as English-speakers have a duty to "work through" language barriers using visual aids, etc. in order to conduct the basics? Or do we have a right to be fed up and extremely annoyed?

I agree that if you are working in a customer service based job then you should have to speak English......I also agree that a conversational english class should be mandatory for any person seeking a permanent visa.....I'm majoring in Biology premed and Spanish because I want to be able to communicate with my hispanic patients also...but I shouldn't be required to speak Spanish to find employment in the U.S. and unfortunately I think thats where we are headed...

Well, ILLEGAL aliens have a bigger problem than learning English. They are ILLEGAL in the first place. Why should there be programs for them? They need to gain legit citizenship status or be forced to go back to their native country. Sounds harsh, but there are Federal regulations for a reason. After their citizenship status is legit, they need to learn English.

TEXAS OR TEJAS?
 

Being born and raised in Texas you get used to certain things. In school my best friend was Mexican and we taught her mother english when I was in 3rd grade...

Fast forward 15+ yrs later when I can't go to the freakin' Mc Donalds next to my job because no one that works there speaks intelligible Engilsh!

It's quite frustrating to know that someone can come to this country, get a job and live happily ever after without knowing the language. If I moved to Mexico you better believe that they would hire people specifcally to help me. Unless it was a tourist area, in the mountan areas I'd be stuck out.

I don't think that it's to much to ask for them to learn the language. I would require classes for all people who would like to pecome citizens. As as a business owner I wouldn't hire anyone whose English wasn't good enough to serve my engish speaking customers. Maybe that would encourage them to learn the language.

TEXAS OR TEJAS?
 

Being born and raised in Texas you get used to certain things. In school my best friend was Mexican and we taught her mother english when I was in 3rd grade...

Fast forward 15+ yrs later when I can't go to the freakin' Mc Donalds next to my job because no one that works there speaks intelligible Engilsh!

It's quite frustrating to know that someone can come to this country, get a job and live happily ever after without knowing the language. If I moved to Mexico you better believe that they would hire people specifcally to help me. Unless it was a tourist area, in the mountan areas I'd be stuck out.

I don't think that it's to much to ask for them to learn the language. I would require classes for all people who would like to pecome citizens. As as a business owner I wouldn't hire anyone whose English wasn't good enough to serve my engish speaking customers. Maybe that would encourage them to learn the language.

Re: Speak English
 

The owner is probably Hispanic and hired a friend or relative. I will assume that you were probably in a predominatly Hispanic area so the need to speak English all the time everyday is not great. I've been told that in San Francisco's China town there are people who ONLY speak Chinese. Since foreigners come here and establish their own communities, the need to become totally part of the English speaking community is not necessary. Not to beat a 'dead horse', but if our African ancestors came here free on their own will, then I am sure we would have more African-language communities. Also, look at Brazil. There is a stronger African influence in their language and culture.

Ronaldoooooooooo McDonaldo!!! Tell me why is the McDonalds in my home town virtually hispanic???

I do have a small problem with some [/I] of the Hispanic race seeming to be able to use the excuse of not speaking English as a crutch, however some hispanics are more understanding of the English language as they let on.

Also, what about some of our own people who cannot speak a proper sentence without completely jacking it up??? What about some of our kids who are not even reading on their current grade level and were born here???

I can't make too many comments about the Hispanic community unless I know that my nieces and nephew can read and read well.:(

Many of us are not specifically targeting Spanish speakers. We're talking about ANYONE who comes to AmeriKKKa and dwells here w/o speaking and understanding, atleast functional, English.

AmeriKKKans have poor grammar as well. My parents were ALWAYS very strict about grammar. This is why I'm so anal about grammar...and choose to speak poorly at times ;)

I noticed a bit of poor grammar in the original post that started this thread. However, we're specifically talking about persons who are not native English speakers.

Even AmeriKKKans with poor grammar (which 95% of AmeriKKKans have from time-to-time---regardless of level of education) have English speaking skills.

So, with that said...why shouldn't those entering the country be expected to achieve the same?

I am not sure how we got on grammar, but if some of these "no-English-speaking-people" had at least the English language down with bad grammar I would be more than happy. The fact that the only response I can get back is "NO ENGLISH" when I ask a worker an important question is very frustrating.

When I went to Puerto Rico, I met 1 man there who did not speak English. He was on vacation from South America. Amazing how all of the Spanish that you learn in the 3rd grade can come back to you after 1 or 2 drinks. All of the hotel workers, club staff, resort staff, airport workers and almost anyone that I needed to communicate with who was an employee at anyplace that I went to spoke ENGLISH! They all spoke perfect English! Who told you that you NEED to speak English to visit a Spanish speaking country? Maybe if you go to South America or Spain, but anyone who you will NEED to speak to in PR speaks English. Many of them told me that they grew up in NYC. Commonwealth status more than likely has something to do with that.

I know a bit of Spanish, but I am studying Japanese. I have never been that hard pressed to speak to anyone in Spanish besides a hotel or hospital worker so I have no desire to learn the language. I would rather speak to language of a country who we do serious business with and who at least has a chance to be the next superpower just as America is. Maybe it's a trend, the same way people studied French in the 60's, and now all they can use it for is to order wine. If you are going to learn a language do it either because 1. You plan to move to the land where it is spoken or 2. The culture and language fascinates you. I cannot learn Spanish because I do not want to. I have tried but I have a mental block when it comes to that language. My mother picked it up as a child growing up in Spanish Harlem, but here in Brooklyn all I hear is "mami/papi/goya." :)

Re: Re: Speak English
 

I wonder if we would be catered to the way Spanish speakers are treated. Every time I call an automated line, I always hear "press one for English, press two for Spanish". The only time I've actually had a third option is when I called someplace in Louisiana for a work-related project and was given French as an option as well. It just seems unfair to provide these services just to one segment of society and not the others. I keep hearing that Spanish speakers will soon become the largest minority group in the country, but what I want to know is are they all LEGAL?

To a certain MIA Sawrah...
 

:o Happy New Year, Soror!

:D

Re: Re: Re: Speak English
 

I guess in some small way it is due. Many Mexicans were living in Cali and other places in what is now the US (since before they were considered US territory). When the territory became considered USA all of a sudden, the people there were not allowed to call themselves Americans and were not given the same rights because they were not white. Kind of backwards but that's our nation for you.

I have to agree with what most people have already commented on. I feel everyone living in the United States of America should be able to speak basic English. It's extremely frustrating when some Spanish speaking people do not know English in certain situations. A friend of mine got in a car accident with a Mexican man (yes...he really was Mexican. I'm not one of those people who classifies all Latino people as Mexican). He didn't know one lick of English and had the nerve to be on the road without a license or insurance!:eek: Another time, I was in Wal-Mart and I needed help. You know how those WalMart smocks say "How can I help you?" on the back? Well, I asked a guy with a smock on for help and he couldn't even speak English! Something has to be done.

Re: Re: Re: Speak English
 

DISCLAIMER: This is strictly opinion.

Many are legal, many aren't. Undocumented aliens are always part of the fabric of border California life (my house in S.D. is 15 miles north of Mexico). No matter what the Border Patrol does, they will be here.

Just as an aside, they come here for a reason. The economic structure always has room for super low-cost labor that's perceived to have a strong work ethic and is somewhat easy to intimidate. :rolleyes:

About a year or so ago, I was looking at a book from the Rand Institute about immigration in California and it flat out suggested that employers' preferences and prejudices played a role in the disappearance of AfAms in blue-collar jobs. I don't completely agree with that point -- skilled blue-collar jobs dying out affected more than us, IMO.

BTW, I agree w/Sigmadiva's thesis.

NOWORNEVER, I honestly doubt something will be done, because Wal-Mart doesn't want to pay the wages that many English-speakers command. :rolleyes:

I don't think that people coming to America should have to be able to speak English. Sure, speaking English would make life easier for English and non-English speakers alike, but I don't think that should be a requirement. If anything, in my opinion, Americans should be taught from an early age to speak more than just English. There are many foreign countries where the citizens speak at least two languages.

Sometimes Americans feel like the whole world should cater to them. Americans in foreign countries will still catch an attitude if someone does not speak English. Americans will go abroad and instead of trying to learn the country's native tongue, will only seek out those who speak English.

The whole world doesn't have to cater AmeriKKKans...that's not what we're talking about. But, if you want to gain some citizenship status in AmeriKKKa, you need to learn functional English. If you're just VISITING another country...that's one thing. If you're going to LIVE in another country...that's another.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Speak English
 

Minimizing the number of blue collar jobs has had a significant impact on African Americans. If African Americans couldn't get any other job, they could always count on the blue collar ones. Now, we have foreigners, particularly illegal aliens, taking many of the jobs (that some say blacks refused to do, anyway...such as doing construction in 100 degree weather).

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speak English
 

On your "refused to do point," you can also add fast food and domestic work, but I digress.

I do agree with your minimizing blue collar thesis. Skilled blue-collar jobs disappearing is one reason, IMO, that young black men have a hard time getting work.

And a man w/o a job just isn't an attractive candidate for marriage and family formation. Not saying that he has to be balling, but at least contribute to the household.

I'm speaking from a virtual invisible minority perspective here -- California's black population is only 7 percent.

I agree with you ClassyLady.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speak English
 

Very good points! I didn't know that CALI's black population was as low as 7%! I guess that makes sense, though...but still :eek:

I too think that non-Americans need to learn basic, functional English. Like it was previously stated we (as Americans), if we were to relocate, would be expected to know the native tongue of that country.

I think the first English words that a LOT of these immigrants need to learn is (1) Soap & (2) Water!!! I'm not trying to be mean or funny.

Mz. Sports Luva

Your last comment was mean since we are talking about speaking english, not hygiene. :( (because I know a lot of Americans that suffer from the same lack of cleanliness in "certain" areas of town .:eek: ),

For those of us that do relocate to other countries most of the time we pick up their language through immersion, unless we take the innitiative to enroll in some sort of class.

To all:

I agree that Americans should learn another language besides English for the simple fact that today's businesses extend beyond our borders. In my last postion, I dealt with Venezuelian companies each and everyday. Having previous knowledge of the spanish language helped GREATLY! (Which is why in an earlier post, I stated that being bilingual is an asset in business and oftentimes gives you an edge over other candidates).

As long as illegal immigrants are seen as cheap, but effective labor, there will never really be anything done in regards to educating these people about the programs that are availible that will help them to become American citizens. Why? Because these people will then have access to things will enable them to have a better life and all of the rights and priviledges thereof. (i.e. minimum wage, decent working conditions, benefits, etc.)

Many compaines (i.e. farmers, construction companies, etc.) DEPEND on these illegals every year for their livelihood. They don't care that these people can't speak a lick of English, or don't have access to decent housing, hygiene products or whatever. All these companies care about is that they are able to pay these people substandard wages "under the table" without the headaches of taxes, benefits, etc.

Sorry it came across as being mean, that was not my intention. But that's how I feel.

You are correct about Americans having the same hygiene problems, but I come across more immigrants/foreigners with this problem than Americans. And it's because they just don't know, which is why they need to speak/learn English so they can learn proper hygiene.

This is just my opinion, please don't take this as being mean.

Well. I am sticking with the position that immigrants shouldn't be required to know English off hand when entering the country. I do think that opportunities should be given for them to learn once adjusted to the country. Most of the immigrants in our country are not legal, thereby unable to seek out these opportunities as easily as others. Besides that, there aren't even people out there that are willing to teach these people. Most people that have posted on this thread barely want to deal with people with minimal knowledge of English. Imagine trying to teach those with NO knowledge. I have had a hard enough time trying to get an adequate knowledge of English and I've been speaking it my whole life.

I would also have to disagree with SportsLuva. Although times have changed, when Josephine Baker and others from the Renaissance era relocated to Paris and other countries to be accepted regardless of their color, do you think they knew the native language?

How would our lives be different if someone would taken the attitudes of today and applied it back then? We have to change our attitudes.

i haven't posted on here in quite a while but this thread made me a bit salty.

there is no official language of the united states for a reason. this country is supposed to be for every and anyone. so if in thirty years more people in the country speak spanish than english then spanish it will be. (or whichever other language)

if people can get along without speaking any kind of english in this country then that is their right by the constitution. if it inconveniences you then so be it. you'll just have to move on, but that is your right too.

and if immigrants have to speak english when they come here, then americans should have to stop going to foreign countries and expecting people to speak english. try to learn local phrases.

:mad:

Yes, they did, and they spoke it qutie well, in fact. I think the debate on Not Learning English loses steam when we consider that English is in fact quite a popular language-- worldwide. International Air Traffic is done in English, in India, where every state has a different language, they are still required to learn English. Also, regardless of what the face of America will look like in the future, the power and the money will STILL be in the hands of those who can speak English and speak it well.

When talking about permanent relocation and gaining as much knowledge as you can to truly provide a better life for your family, I cannot see how learning English is not at the top of that list.

Also, as I stated before, there are places one can go to learn English, as well as cassette and VHS tapes. Now, I really don't have a problem with the Mexican waiting outside the 7-Eleven hoping to get a job cutting grass-- if that's enough for him, but you can't tell me that his situtation is akin to the American family vacationing in the Swiss Alps who cannot properly order a Pepsi.

Some believe that our national language almost became German, this site says it's a myth.

http://www.us-english.org/foundation...s/founders.asp

No disrespect, but my point is we need to clean up our own houses first before we start talking about others. I also notice this thread targets towards other nationalities in latter parts of it. In the very first post she started off as saying hispanic persons and to a certain degree I can identify what was said because of where I live(which also has a large Hispanic Community)......that was my point. So, with that being said...I think the orginator of this thread understands where I am coming from with respects to my reply. kthnx! :D


[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChaosDST
[B]Many of us are not specifically targeting Spanish speakers. We're talking about ANYONE who comes to AmeriKKKa and dwells here w/o speaking and understanding, atleast functional, English.

AmeriKKKans have poor grammar as well. My parents were ALWAYS very strict about grammar. This is why I'm so anal about grammar...and choose to speak poorly at times ;)

I noticed a bit of poor grammar in the original post that started this thread. However, we're specifically talking about persons who are not native English speakers.

Even AmeriKKKans with poor grammar (which 95% of AmeriKKKans have from time-to-time---regardless of level of education) have English speaking skills.

So, with that said...why shouldn't those entering the country be expected to achieve the same?

Official Language
 

English Declared Official in Iowa
Fri Mar 1, 2002

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - Gov. Tom Vilsack signed a bill into law Friday declaring English the state's official language.


Though it is mainly symbolic, the law requires all government proceedings be conducted in English. Supporters have said English is a unifying factor in a state that has become increasingly diverse.

Opponents, including many Hispanics and liberals, have called it thinly veiled racism. Most Democrats in the Legislature voted against the bill, which is similar to laws approved in 26 other states.

"I recognize that the bill is not without controversy," said Vilsack, a Democrat. "My hope is that we will look beyond the controversy and put politics behind us so we can focus on our commitments and responsibility to improve education for all our children."

Many of Vilsack's core constituencies had pressured him to veto the measure. Democrats and labor groups held vigils at the governor's mansion and at the Statehouse in protest of the bill.

The Legislature sent Vilsack the bill earlier this week after two years of debate.

After the 2000 election, Vilsack launched a campaign to encourage an additional 310,000 immigrant workers to move to Iowa by 2010 to fill employment vacancies and boost dwindling population.

He noted Friday that lawmakers have promised an additional $1 million in a separate bill to fund state efforts helping immigrants learn English.

According to the advocacy group U.S. English Inc., 26 states have some form of official English laws. Similar legislation was approved by the U.S. House in 1996, but the Senate failed to act by the end of the session.

On the Iowa story
 

I suspect that governor is either politically vulnerable or opportunistic (remember Pete Wilson and Prop. 209 in Cali) and that's why he signed that English-only bill. It's probably headed for a court challenge.

Well, the "AmeriKKKans for proper grammar" campaign could take forever. In the meantime and in between time, non-English speaking, newly immigrated individuals should be taking English courses.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gyrl7
[B]No disrespect, but my point is we need to clean up our own houses first before we start talking about others. I also notice this thread targets towards other nationalities in latter parts of it. In the very first post she started off as saying hispanic persons and to a certain degree I can identify what was said because of where I live(which also has a large Hispanic Community)......that was my point. So, with that being said...I think the orginator of this thread understands where I am coming from with respects to my reply. kthnx! :D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChaosDST
Well, the "AmeriKKKans for proper grammar" campaign could take forever. In the meantime and in between time, non-English speaking, newly immigrated individuals should be taking English courses.

[/QUOTE

I don't think at anytime I ever indicated that non-English speaking persons shouldn't be taking English courses!

I work in the travel industry and I come across many people who speak Spanish. It bothers me that when I ask them if they speak some English, they refuse to communicate. I know some Spanish but I feel that if you travel in the U.S., then you should be able to understand and speak some Spanish. I often get upset when foreigners, not just of the Spanish language, but others use their native tongue in front of U.S. citizens when they are working as a service to the community, i.e.,clothing stores, restaurants, etc. I feel that is rude and disrespectful!:mad: