2.5 GPA
 

Hope and Little 32 raise the point that Greek organizations stress academic excellence. In fact, men of APHIA, in my opinion, are known for their intellectual prowess. If this is the case should the 2.5 minimum be raised?

No,
I don't think it should be raised. It should stay the same.

i think it could be raised a little since education is the primary focus. i don't know about other campuses but my campus gpa for our sorority minimum was a 2.7 but most prospectives had at least a 3.0 or higher.

I think the GPA should be raised. I'm not a member of a BGLO, but hope to be one day. If anyone wouldn't want it to be raised, you'd think it would be someone who isn't a member yet. However, raising the GPA would only make me strive that much harder to get a higher GPA. Which is what we all should be doing anyway correct? Working toward the highest GPA possible, not just the required 2.0 or 2.5 prerequisite set by the different Greek Orgs. If you TRULY want to be a member of a sorority/fraternity, you'd do what you have to do. Period. If every single BGLO were to raise their GPA requirements tomorrow to a 3.5, I'd bet interests who truly want it would make it a point to get that 3.5! Now, I know there are many reasons for people to have GPAs that may be 2.5 or lower...and each person and situation is different, but it would not be impossible to acheive what ever GPA it takes to get into an organization that you have in your heart and really want. Believe me, I know it can be hard. I am a full time parent,employee and student and I still manage to hold down a high GPA. (And I don't take "bullsh*t classes either). I work hard because 1) I NEED to get good grades in order to get grants to pay for school and 2) I know excellence in education is ONE of the MANY things sororities and fraternities look for in potential members. So, I say raise it and that's just my 2 cents worth. We're all entitled to our opinions...so please let's not turn this into a circus-like forum when disagreeing.

I think the GPA should be raised. Greeks should be the elite groups on campus and what better way to show your greatness. Your mind is the key access that you will ever have in life, along side religion.

I think the GPA should be at least a 3.0. This would give future greeks something to strive for and not just lust over the colors and stepping.


Just a little AKA note:
Pinkice

I agree with the majority on this issue. The required GPA should be raised a bit. I know that standards are different on every campus, so the individual chapters should take advantage of their ability to amend the required GPA for their chapter. Those members are best suited to examine and decide what is best at their school.

I also agree that education should be the primary focus. Those interested in becoming a member of a GLO would definitely work harder at achieving better grades. There is nothing wrong with putting the emphasis where it needs to be- education.

I also think it should be raised so that the emphasis is on education.

I don'think it should be raised....

Unfortunately all colleges are not created the same...a 2.3 is standard at schools like GA Tech where that is considered to be doing well!!!

As such, students who have a 2.5 are actually doing well...programs are not created the same...thus raising the GPA requirements at some schools would make it impossible to have a chapter. In fact, i've heard that Elite Liberal Arts Colleges and Ivy Leauges...Black Students Average GPA is 2.6...barely qualifying for the org.

As for other institutions (like many HBCU's) they require you to have a 2.7-3.0 to pledge regardless of national reqs. If i'm not mistaken, colleges can supercede certain national req.

Many of the history books note this problem, which is how the came up with a 2.5 GPA....especially at the onset of our organizations...since most flourished on Elite Historically White Colleges b-4 they began to make waves on the black campuses

06!

Ice Cold Kreator

I don'think it should be raised....

Unfortunately all colleges are not created the same...a 2.3 is standard at schools like GA Tech where that is considered to be doing well!!!

As such, students who have a 2.5 are actually doing well...programs are not created the same...thus raising the GPA requirements at some schools would make it impossible to have a chapter. In fact, i've heard that Elite Liberal Arts Colleges and Ivy Leauges...Black Students Average GPA is 2.6...barely qualifying for the org.

As for other institutions (like many HBCU's) they require you to have a 2.7-3.0 to pledge regardless of national reqs. If i'm not mistaken, colleges can supercede certain national req.

Many of the history books note this problem, which is how the came up with a 2.5 GPA....especially at the onset of our organizations...since most flourished on Elite Historically White Colleges b-4 they began to make waves on the black campuses

06!

Ice Cold Kreator

Ice Cold Kreator,

Your points are valid! ! ! Thank you for the post.

"00000000666666"

00000008888

There's more to a Member than a GPA
 

I agree that members of Alpha should be solid academically, thats a given. I think a 2.5 is acceptable. But theire is more to a member than a GPA. I look at community involvement, character, personality, savvy and ambition. I know many brothers who many not be strait A students, but who know how to make things happen, who are innovative and involved. I know many Bros with high grades who maybe so busy academically, that they don't participate in as many things as others. In a nutshell...I believe that you have to be exceptional at something and have something of value to bring to the table. 3.0s and higher is great, but that woun't run a chapter by itself...you need other characteristics to go with it. If you have a 2.5 and you are innovative, creative, outgoing, dynamic, and get things done...thats what we need. If all you got is a 4.0 and you can't even work well with other people, you might not be very useful to anyone but yourself.

Don't get me wrong...having decent grades should be a given,
but grades aren't the end-all be all of measuring someones ability.

HELL NO!!!
 

You know, it kills me to see how people change to this "elitist" mindset after they get on. Let's just rewind to freshman year when wearing the hottest clothes and dating the finest man/woman on campus were your goals. Thoughts of that kind made it a little harder to maintain a 2.5 or better.

I say that to say this, speaking from personal experience, some of the greatest Alphas I've ever had the honor of calling my brother became that way because of the company they kept. Once they crossed, they sought out the brothers that were positive, campus leaders, excelled in business and in their personal lives; thus molding them into the men they are today. To further separate our "lost" youth from our positive black men is a thought that I cannot comprehend. If we put the power back in the hands of the chapters with leadership and guidance coming from the advisors as opposed to the discipline and control they weild over the young brothers presently, the burden to properly choose, groom, and teach young brothers will be, and rightfully so, restored to the chapter brothers.

I'm not gonna front like I had the bomb GPA when I went on line (yeah I said it, ON LINE). And, I'm not gonna tell you that it improved during my process, nor will I say that pledging (and I said PLEDGING too) helped me to increase my GPA thereafter (although it did improve slightly). But pledging did make me realize what is most important above all individual achievements and personal triumphs, and that is the love that only a TRUE BROTHER can show to another.

AND IF YALL DON'T FEEL ME, THEN FINE! (Hell, I only expect a handful of you to understand it anyway.)

Re: HELL NO!!!
 

I agree. The GPA requirement should remain the same. There are many different variables that adds to a student's character other than GPA. Don't get me wrong, Alpha is about scholarship but it is also about being a leader in your community and race. Some people have a hard time comprehending subject material or learning. I have many chapter bros who just made the minimum and they are some of the most influential and upstanding leaders on my campus. They did more work for the frat than a lot of those who came in with higher GPA's. My dean told me that we look for QUALITY in aspirants not just intelligence. I'm glad that my chapter scrutinizes aspirants for more than their grades. Although students with high GPA's make GOOD members, they don't always make GREAT brothers! (if you don't know the difference, then you need to find out).

P.S.- As your Dean, Fatto you make me proud son!

Re: HELL NO!!!
 

Good Point Frat! I would think though that Major and GPA work hand and hand a 2.5 in engineering is a lot harder to attain then a 2.5 in basket weaving(no offense to the basket weavers)!

Sphinxpoet

Re: Re: HELL NO!!!
 

I agree wit cha on dat! That's why I say You have to look at the different circumstances that go with being a student. QUALITY!!!

Some things to consider...
 

Although Scholarship is a virtue we all cherish, earning a 2.5 at one school is not the same as attaining a 2.5 at another. Some schools are more challenging than others; and I think this fact alone warrants leaving it as it is. Raising it too high can kill certain chapters.

Fatto broke it down beyond the need to respond. I can only wholeheartedly agree with the brother.

I had to...
 

come back and give my bruhs some dap fa keepin' it real on this one! Fatto and AphiAce; I feel yall on what yall said. I get tired of seeing people perp like they all this once they get in, exploitin' the perks of membership without earning them.

Every time we had an informational(smoker), we'd get a boat load of dudes coming with borderline gpa's, and a handful with gpa's above the requirement. Many times, the dudes with the high gpa's would over-emphasize the fact; and it made many of us sick of it. Year in and year out, the bruthas that contributed the most to the chapter were the one's with the borderline gpa's. That is not to say dudes with good grades can't be good bruthas; it's just been the trend at our chapter.

I think the Greek Organizations are gonna cut their veins with this one. Raising the involvement requirement would better suit the chapters and increase retainable membership than raising the gpa standard.

Re: I had to...
 

To expound upon your post; aww just read the signature below!

From what I've read so far I presume the consensus is that most of the men feel that the GPA requirement shouldn't be raised and the women feel that it should. I'm not a member of an BGLO but I agree that it shouldn't be raised because a 3.0 doesn't determine and assure the quality of a potential member. I would love to hear more responses to see how ladies of greek chat feel about this particular idea. To the ladies who've already responded, what is your take on the responses from the men.

Well...
 

I agree with what the men have stated...Because getting a 2.5 gpa at one school is much easier to get than at other schools. Also, it does depend on your major (as others have stated). Quality--not quantity--is what matters most...

However, it doesn't really matter b/c I believe each individual Chaper can set their gpa requirement above the 2.5 requirement (a member will correct me if I am wrong ;))...

My thoughts...
 

I feel that the minimum GPA requirement should not be raised. I attend a Big Ten school and my major is Computer Information Systems. Let me tell you, it's very hard to maintain that GPA. Furthermore, there are a lot of quality women with 2.5 GPAs. If we raised the GPA, a lot of people would be inelligible for membership and would have to wait until graduate (and GPA still matters for some alumnae organizations). Thus, the GPA requirement should remain the same.

DEL

I don't believe that the GPA should be changed. Let's keep in mind that bad semester or bad freshman year and how we (especially me) worked hard, REAL hard to bring up GPAs. I also know many a student who had a tough time geeting through tose gen eds and once they hit the major classes it was all up hill!!!

But also, a student can have a 2.5 and be very well rounded and work very hard in extra curricular activities. A 2.5 is respsectable and great when all things are accounted for!!!

Raise the Standard
 

I feel that a 2.5 is too low; it should be raised. In the case of my organization and chapter (Alpha Phi Alpha, Beta XI), how can you expect to recruit "the cream of the crop" when you let people with GPAs below a 3.0 gain admission. At my school, to be in the honor's program, you must have at least a 3.0. So why should anyone expect less. Set high standards and let people go after them.. If a person really wants something, they will do what they have to do... I went through a lot to get my letters and I do a lot of extra-curricular activities, and I still maintain a 3.8 as a graduating senior.. There should be "no excuses."

I mean no disrespect "brother," but...
 

if I am correct, Beta Xi chapter is Lemoyne Owens College in Memphis, TN. I happen to know personally some of the troubles that your school is experiencing to the extent that it may cease to exist within the next 5 years. When you reach your 30's, hell even your mid 20's young brother let's see how much you boast about an honors degree from a college that you have to refer to in the past tense.

Let me set the record straight, I am not condemning your opinions, because, as I've stated before, I respect our brothers for their strong minds and willingness to speak out. But, what I do have a problem with is your limited view. You are representing a chapter/college that doesn't even require 800 on the SAT to gain admission. Should we start checking back to see what high schools our prospective candidates are from, how about go all the way back to their upbringing, and interview family members. Regardless of an aspirants present state, it is and will be your responsibility as a leader to recognize and acknowledge the potential in individuals and weight that against the initial investment that it will take to mold them.

Some of you that read this may think that I sound angry, you're damned right. Thoughts like that of yours Mr. Sazon are the cancerous element that must be cut out of our thinking. In one simple statement you are condoning the divide of our black males into social classes. I reiterate, it is the duty of the black male leaders on campus (Alphas) to tolerate, educate, and develop the young black males who take an interest in our organization. Not all of them will become Alphas, but that is still no excuse.

Every great man/woman was not born that way, rather there were a host of others who toiled endlessly, unselfishly to ensure their success.

P.S. Welcome to GC Sazon:)

Good point fatto!http://www.plaudersmilies.de/party/yelclap.gif

Not to stray from the subject at hand, but I do feel that once some African Americans attain what they deem to be the "American dream", they no longer feel the need to help those that they left behind. Why do we always have to try and "one up" one another? :confused: So many times we use things that are so unimportant.We have bigger issues on our hands. http://www.plaudersmilies.de/kopfpatsch.gif

If you don't think so, ponder this....

Why is the richest BLACK man an athlete?
Why is the 2nd richest BLACK man an entertainer?
http://www.plaudersmilies.de/party/dance.gif

In regards to the GPA issues, I read this statement on GC somewhere (can't remember who said it)......

WHAT DO YOU CALL A MEDICAL STUDENT WITH A 2.5 GPA?

DOCTOR...

Re: I mean no disrespect "brother," but...
 

THAT"S MY BOOOOOOOYYYYYYYY!!!!

Re: I mean no disrespect "brother," but...
 

I don't know about that. Many HBCUs are going through trials and tribulations. The rumor has always been out there that XYZ university in the next umpteen years will not exist because of blah, blah , blah... or ABC HBCU will get a "white" President, or SO AND SO university will become a Jr. College...or EFG university/college will be taken over by the "flagship university".

It was said before I went to college and it's still being said...and I haven't heard of any schools closing. (I'm speaking generally)

:rolleyes:

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

The same trials and tribulations the HBCUs are going through, the non-HBCUs are experiencing the SAME thing, but it is not being reported!

Get your Minds Right
 

My mislead brothers.. The situation my school is going through is a sad one, yet, our school will more than likely not close anytime soon. Let me ask you a question son! How many leaders do you know that have graduated with a degree from LeMoyne-Owen, not to mention with an honor's degree. Many prominent leaders in Memphis, and the Nation have come from the school "that doesn't require an 800 on the SAT." I'll let you research that... Allow me to help you out a little. Two of them are: the mayor of Memphis, W.W. Herenton, and Councilman Myron Lowery.. You say that the GPA should not matter, but then you are implying that our school requirements are too.. You come off hypocritical my fellow brother... Work on that... On another note.. Trust you me, my GPA is not misleading... Do you honestly think that I would say all those things about grades and honors f I don't have my agenda straight? Think again... Not only do I have the grades, but I have the connections, extra-curricular activities, volunteerism, and well, you should get the point...

You said: "Regardless of an aspirants present state, it is and will be your responsibility as a leader to recognize and acknowledge the potential in individuals and weight that against the initial investment that it will take to mold them."

Well my fellow brother, does that not include institutions of higher education? Do we have to wait until they decide to pledge to worry about that, shouldn't we give them the opportunity to mold them out of high school for those that cannot because of several reasons not attend a "University?" LOC may be small, but you learn more, whereas, a bigger institution provides a bigger, well-known name, which is respectable, but so? Check this analogy: pretend LOC is a small business, and a university is a corporation. Most corporations get their "great ideas" from smaller companies (small business). Meaning, they have their value just the same if not more...

Watch that "Ether" family...

I say this as if I were talking about a family member.. I can talk about my family any way I want, but you cannot... I get upset when people talk about my school without knowing the facts.. Please don't take offense, I am merely defending my school...

Uphold the light properly people..

Peace and Love,
Sazon

That's for stating an important fact AKA2D '91, much love mami...

I think you missed the point. Yeah, LOC has prominent graduates.....who cares? If you search most colleges and Universities you will find prominent graduates. The point was the circumstances in which student A has a 2.5 in Hypo Nuclear Electrical Engineering and student B who has a 3.0 in Swimming Pool Management both study hard except student A also plays Basketball because an athletic scholarship was all he could get, works a part time job to survive and volunteers at a senior center where his grandmother is a resident. Whereas student B just studies and plays video games in his dorm room. The bottom line is Student A has more on his plate and still maintains a 2.5 GPA. let me ask you...Who would you choose to be in your chapter? Who's work ethic would you like to see applied to the frat?

"Who Cares"
 

First of all, I was defending my school in reference to your "who cares" comment.. My school was basically being referred to as trash, I won't allow that.. Unfortunately, those students are hard to find, especially in my environment..

Also, just the same, who in college does not have a full plate, as a real college student that is... That's life! get over it.. "Who cares." But you know what, I know people in my chapter and surrounding chapters that are in the same boat, but because they have so much on their plate they are not able to dedicate much time to the organization... Did you bother to think about that! Do you want someone solely because their "stats" are good? What good what that do the chapter? I would want someone who can handle their educational duties, but still be active in the chapter as far as putting in work for the chapter and the organization as a whole where need be..

I have varying opinions on this topic. Let me begin by saying I don't think the GPA requirement should be raised. However, if I have two interests with similar credentials and one has a 2.5 and the other a 3.8, will it make a difference? I'm not gonna lie.. of course it will. I worked hard to get my GPA to a certain level before I applied for membership, and I think if the person really wants to be in a particular org., they'll do what's necessary. 2.5 in my opinion isn't a lot to ask. You're spending somebody's hard-earned money to be going to school anyway, and I would say that even if you're not interested in being greek, a C+ avg. would be a feasible goal.

But I do agree with looking closely at what classes a person is taking or what their major is. If somebody has a 3.8 but that person with a 2.5 is taking more challenging courses, then of course that should be taken into consideration. Grades fluctuate so much depending on the course, the level, the instructor, etc. And a 2.5 at Harvard is not a 2.5 at my school, which is not a 2.5 at the school up the street. That's just the way things go.

But if an interest is teetering around a 2.5 already, what will happen during/after the... umm.. "experience"? No, grades should not be all that matters, but I also don't see the point of bringing somebody into the chapter who might be inactive the next semester because that 2.5 slipped a little. Just my opinion.

I learned early on not to speak out of turn, which means I am very comfortable conveying that info. about your school to the general public. I happen to know, personally, one of the higher ranking administrators at your school, which is how and why I can speak intelligently about the topic. And no, I never referred to your school as trash, although they are in need of some serious housekeeping.

And yes AKA2D, it is sad but true that many of our HBCU's have and will continue to be plagued with financial troubles and the rumors to follow, but once again I learned early on not to speak out of turn.

To directly address Mr. Sazon, unless your name is Dad, my name to you is NOT son. So give me the respect that I deserve. Also, if your a graduating Senior (future tense) and I graduated (past tense) one could reasonably infer that I crossed before you so show respect. You don't have to like what I say, some of it I would also take offense to as well, but YOU WILL RESPECT ME!!!

It's fine to address the high schoolers, and I've heard of, seen, and been a part of many great community service projects regarding high school children and helping to prepare them for their upcoming college years. The problem I see is that ALL chapters go through spells of prosperity and adversity that don't always alloe the chapter to participate on the same level consistently. Have you ever met a child that only needed a part time mentor??? (Don't answer that!) Have you ever met a college brother that had the time to mentor a troubled child whenever that child needed him no matter how long? (Don't answer that either!!)

If you, my fellow leader possess the ability to recognize the potential in an aspirant and successfully guide them, and show them the light THE RIGHT WAY, they too will prosper and continue in the same manner that they were first introduced to ALPHA. Then you won't have to mentor part time HE'LL BE YOUR BROTHER AND YOUR BURDEN FOR LIFE!!! (and that's one load that I will gladly carry!!!)

What do you call a Civil Engineering major that pledged with a 2.7 GPA??? I don't know what they called me then, but now my co-workers call me boss!

Re: "Who Cares"
 

Obviously, you either didn't read my comment or you didn't understand. I made a comparison of two students. Student A, who has a belief in hard work and Student B, who doesn't particular care to go out and VOLUNTEER with the extra time on his hands. Student A who with all of the many things he has on his plate, still manges to give back to his community, or Student B who uses his spare time selfishly. I GRADUATED from college an GRAD SCHOOL, so I know most college students have alot on their plate! The point is not ALL of them do. You mena to tell me that you actually looked at this example and said that Student A doesn't have strong work ethic? You actually referred to his hard work as STATS? If you would except student B... Then I'm Glad for two reason's: one that you didn't try to pledge BETA ALPHA Chapter and Two I didn't pledge at your chapter.

I'm open to All comments, let me hear them!

Well, first and foremost, if I offended some of you, I do apologize, I did not mean to touch "soft skin." ;) Okay boss, you get my respect for pledging before I did, but I will not bite my tongue for no one, call me hard headed, or what else, blame my grandmother.. Nevertheless, I am also familiar with the poem "He's not heavy, he's my brother," oh so well, so spare me the history lesson.. I work hard for my chapter, extremely hard, so I expect for everyone else to do so as well, so when I hear talk of GPA, it bothers me because I feel a 2.5 is too low.. A college student's first priority should be school, aside from personal, financial, or physical/mental problems they have.. Student's not in these categories have valid reasons for not achieving high GPAs, but students not in these categories have "no excuse." There are tutors, instructors who will stay after hours to help, as well as other sources of help. if you major is too hard, work harder.. I don't care what school you go to, a 3.0 and above is not hard to attain with the right attitude.. My reference to stats was figurative, I do apologize that you were not able to grasp the concept, I will try not to let it happen again.. I meant "stats" as far as what they do, the production they get out of their time such as community service, grades, extra-curricular activities, etc... I won't even get personal such as saying something like "Then I'm Glad for two reason's: one that you didn't try to pledge BETA ALPHA Chapter and Two I didn't pledge at your chapter." Because that point can be disputed endlessly for both sides... I am also open to comments, because conversations like these often times lead to contructive actions... Bring it on..

Sazon

I wouldn't mind if it were raised, but think about all the brothers that would not have made it... we don't know, unless we research, what gpa's frat like Martin, Thurgood and others had... now I would like to think they high gpa's but what if they didn't... would that have taken away from what they accomplished... would that have kept them from the house of alpha? Now obviously their has to be a certain level or standard, but sometimes that has to be looked at objectively... ya dig!!

My thoughts....AGAIN!
 

Okay, let me break it down. Presently, I'm the only one in my chapter. Because of the vow I made to Delta, I choose not to throw in the towel. Along with that, I attend a big ten school, work full time, church full time, etc...it's very DIFFICULT to maintain a 2.5!!!! And no, I'm not majoring in Aerobics, I'm a Computer Information Systems major. It's no PUNK!!!

How can you say that despite all of what goes on in people's lives, they should still be able to maintain a certain GPA? That is your strength not everyone else's. In all honesty, I'm happy with the C+ that I got in Calculus and the C that I got in C++. The stuff is HARD!!! And you also can't judge ones dedication through academics. I know a LOT of smart sorors who don't do NADA!!! I know a lot of smart sorors who would have dipped on their chapter if they were left solo. In conclusion, the minimum GPA requirement should not be raised.

I'm out!

delph...
 

i don't know you but i love you already!!!

Re: My thoughts....AGAIN!
 

Well said! Ditto!