NPC expansion
 

There is a sorority interest group on my campus. They have started a local and plan to bring another NPC to campus. We currently have my house, AST, and a local sorority. AST is four years old and the local is ancient. The two in existance are hovering at about 30 women. Neither of us have what you would call 'stable' numbers. We don't have a sure base for recruitment and work hard to get lots of 'maybe joiners.'

My question is how will this work? Does NPC look at our campus and say 'yes' XYZ you may colonize there or will XYZ just decide? Does XYZ have access through NPC to see the rise and fall of numbers that we have turned into our nat'l HQ? Or will they just come to campus and decide then? What really goes into this?

Does this make sense?
I'd appreciate any help you could give!
Tau Love and Mine
Lil E

LiL E, I just saw your post and I dont normally check this one!

i cannot give you an answer and am sorry NO ONE came back to you!

Could you give little more Info?

I am sure there is someone out there on GC who can help! Trust me. there always is as We have the Best of the Best on Site!:)

Hey Sister!!

I know there are more knowledgeable people on this board, but here's what I know about expansion. First of all, the Campus Panhellenic has to vote to expand and allow another group on campus. At some point, I'm sure you can have NPC consultants look at your campus recruitment numbers and let you know if you should expand or not. Once the Panhellenic decides to open for expansion, then the interest group can have National Sororities come and do a presentation. Usually if there is already a group in existence, the National and the interest group will both vote on whether or not to "accept" each other. If they accept, they become a colony.

This probably made no sense at all, but I think the main point here is that the campus has to be open for expansion. And that is decided by the College Panhellenic. If they vote no on expansion, then I guess the group can stay a local. (Where's PnguinTrax when I need her!?!?)

The NPC webpage (www.npcwomen.org) has very clear guidelines how to go about the expansion process.

In a nutshell, your local panhellenic must vote to invite a group to colonize on your campus. The local chapter who is seeking national affiliation can start by sending a letter of inquiry to the groups they are most interested in joining. Yes, those groups will want all sorts of statistics before they'll even agree to make a presentation. Rush numbers, enrollment figures, and academic data is a start.

Hope this helps.. I wish you luck!

Karen Gunther
Pi Beta Phi
Director of Academics

Well... is there a local Panhellenic? With only one NPC sorority on campus, it's not required. Have AST and the local(s) established a Panhellenic?

I think (not sure) that if there is no Panhel, the Student Activities Office or equivalent would be the authority that determines if the campus is open to expansion.

If the campus is open, interested NPC orgs would communicate with that office and with the local (and possibly also with AST and the local that's not looking to go NPC, to get recruitment numbers and the like), and if several orgs are interested, it would be up to the local to choose among them.

What authority approved AST's colonization?

We have a very...loose...??? greek system on campus. We do not have Pan-hell. Instead, the two sororities and the three IFC's have this mish mosh thing called the Interfraternal Panhellenic Council, aka IFPC. IFPC has no power what so ever. It is pretty pointless, but it does force us to communicate. Well IFPC has authorized this group to be on probationary status. This is at least one year of probation. Then by 3/4 the greek houses may allow them full IFPC membership.

Our Greek affairs person does not understand the greeksystem at all. It is very low priority on our campus.

The group the new local has announced that they want to bring to campus is KAT. Apparently they are very selective in their expansion, that is the rumor around here anyway. So now my question broadens more. Can they, because our campus already has an NPC, just decide who they want, or do we need to go through and have NPC presentations on campus? Would it be better for AST and the current local to form NPC, if we are even allowed to do that, to make this process more clear?

I know this sounds jumbled I'm really sorry. But it is all so confusing because we don't really have a normal greek system. AST just kinda of came to campus, there wasn't a lot of proper channels they just had to have the ok of the Greek advisor and be approved by IFPC.

So how much say does AST have with NPC on expansion here? Our DP told us that we will suffer in numbers if there is expansion. So we feel caught. We vote no and we are the evil B*'s and that is definatly not the message we need.

I'm so confused I'll try to make this more clear when i get a response....please respond :)
Tau love
Lil E

i guess i could see both sides...
 

Greetings Little E!

I am by no means an NPC expert, but your situation sounds very similar to a school I once attended.

Firstly, I would think that your DP is correct in saying the current groups will suffer in numbers if another group expands. The greek system seems to be a supply-demand system. If there is a lot of supply, and no demand for greek organizations on campus, the additional group would eventually help deplete the system (you mentioned Greek life wasn't a majorly huge thing at your school?) . The school I used to attend once had many many national GLO's on the campus in the 70's & 80's.. and after awhile, there were just too many and no one wanted to "go greek" anymore. Many of the groups evaporated, and only two national fraternities remained.

I can totally understand you don't want to send the message that you are being B*'s.. or whatever the case may be. I think the best thing you can do is hope for the best. Maybe explain to the group how the system will be affected if your school already has low recruitment numbers, how the "pool" will be spread even thinner. It sounds really bad, but I don't quite know how to put it eloquently.

I think this new group needs to understand the whole supply/demand thing. If there the demand for GLO's at your school isn't there, it would be crazy to work hard to bring another group to campus, only to have them get a closed chapter in the long run because of low numbers or whatever the case may be.

On the opposite side t hough, this new group might get the school stirred up, so to say. They may get more excited about greek life, and maybe even help increase for the demand in GLO's on your campus.

Anyhow, that is my take on it.. sorry for writing a novel :) Maybe some of those NPC experts I have seen on these boards might be able to explain it a lil better :)

Another perspective....
 

You could look at it this way-- since this group is already a local that is somewhat established, it might be better that they go national so that they are playing by the same rules as AST. Not to mention it would give more credibility to the Greek system there and possibly attract more people.

As someone who is from Wisconsin and went through an NPC expansion, I can tell you that not all the NPC sororities will be interested in expanding there. I will not speak for KAT though.

If these women contacted KAT directly, then I BELIEVE (not 100%) that KAT can decide on its own whether to expand there-- if the group goes the NPC expansion route (which I would recommend) then all the groups will have a chance to look and make a determination. No group will want to expand there if the numbers do not flush out.

If you are concerned about the process, contact AST's National Panhellenic delegate. She should be able to help you.

I hope that is helpful. I am not an expansion expert but I know from my own experience how these things can go.

Expansion
 

What I understand from Little E's original post is that there is one NPC group on her campus (her's) and one local and now a third "interest group" has started up with the aim of asking KAT to colonize them. Please correct me if that is not right, Little E.
Since you have no formal Panhellenic on your campus, it will be harder to get a handle on things. When a panhellenic exists then I believe they control expansion on campus, although I thought I read in your post that your loosely organized IFC-NPC council will vote on the expansion at some point. I HIGHLY encourage you to fight this expansion if you feel that it is not in the best interest of your sorority - even at the risk of being bitchy. If you think that it will only serve to dilute the system rather than causing it to grow, then stand by what you believe and do not allow anyone to sway you.
It is hard to gauge the effect that another group might have since you are the only one there (besides the local). Another NPC at your school would require the school to have a Panhellenic Council, I believe. If you had two groups then you might see more interest in the greek system since you would (presumably) have formal recruitment together. It might be more widely promoted by your school and eventual Panhellenic and turn out to be a good thing. Something to consider anyway.

NPC Expansion
 

One of my close friends is an alum of the local at your school. My understanding is that the local was once a chapter of Delta Gamma and that other national sororities have also had chapters at your university. This link provides more information:

http://www.beloit.edu/~libhome/Archi...oit/greek.html

This link also shows that there was at one time a Kappa Alpha Theta chapter established on your campus. Based on my limited knowledge of your campus and after looking at the history of your greek community, expansion probably isn't the best move at this point.

Lori

Just from what I have seen of KAT, I will second what you heard re their expansion policies. Our campus had a similar experience, 2 different locals wanted to bring Tri-Delt and they said "nay." They don't want to open a chapter that can't be on similar footing with the others, which is a decision I highly respect.

anyhoo...

What does the local sorority think? Are they for it or against it? If you guys and the local have opposing views, you might be better off to stick with things as they are - the fraternities & sororities as all one council - rather than form a Panhel right now. There's no point in forming something and having stalemate after stalemate because there are only 2 of you.

I think Heather is right, that they can contact KAT directly, but for their own sakes they would be better off to contact ALL the NPC groups. It is hard to gauge what kind of effect they'll have - they could get everyone excited or they could bring the other groups down. At any rate, they are on a probationary period. If the latter happens, I doubt that you guys OR the local will vote for them to stay.

Supply-Demand Model
 

I have to disagree with some statements in here that a simple supply/demand model is accurate to describing a recruitment situation.

Sometimes a new group is exactly what is needed to stimulate expansion of the system in general. New blood, new ideas have the potential to revitalize the system.

By adding another group you may indeed be increasing demand. Many IFC/Panhel groups sit on their cans and simply expect people to come to them... Which they do but in small numbers. If the groups would take a different approach and recruit individuals for rush I think the story could be very different.

I've seen it work the other way. When Sigma Nu and PKA colonized and formed chapters at UCO *MANY* more men are now going through rush than before. The Greek System has grown significantly and I'd say there's even enough room for us to keep expanding. (that's 2 groups that joined IFC, not just one)

It is not necessarily true that one house will falter as another picks up steam. Usually a house that is suffering is doing so because of their own faults. They need to either seek help to correct these issues or go dormant.

Expansion
 

As has been debated on other threads, expansion has it's benefits and can also have it's drawbacks. You are talking about apples and oranges when you compare IFC expansion to NPC expansion, however.

.. just a few corrections..
 

I mentioned the system "seems" to be somewhat similar to a supply/demand schedule. I did not say it "Was". I also mentioned that a new group might also spark more interest in the overall greek system and perhaps increase recruitment numbers in my original post.

I have to disagree when you say groups that suffer are suffering "because of their own faults". I just feel that is a over-generalization. If a school is small and the interest in greek life just isn't there, that is not always the fault of the chapters that reside on the campus that they have low or unstable numbers.

When I attended a SMALL college, they had amazing groups, and they didn't have many members. I personally don't feel it was their fault they were suffering in numbers - I know personally they advertised so much to get more men & women interested in the greek life that existed on the campus. Not every school is meant to be in the "Top Ten Greek Schools" with all 26 NPC sororities and all the NIC fraternities, so when a chapter has small numbers, it may not always be "their fault".. but that's just the way I see it coming from an extremely small greek school.

I appreciate all the responses. My school has a low greek population and it is unlikely that it will grow tremendously in the next few years.

My chapter's main concern is our survival and that of the current houses before allowing expansion to occur.

I do like the idea of suggesting the the new local that they request NPC expansion presentations instead of waiting until KAT is ready/willing to recolonize at Beloit. I will bring this up to my house and see what they do with it. The idea of the new local going national, if they are going to exist, is a something we'd talked about and seems to be the most important thing for them to do. It will help our chapter trememdously to have another NPC that is required to follow the rules we are bound to.

I'd appreciate anyother thoughts, especially on how to bring this up neatly, but hopefully our campus will invite NPC to make presentations.

Tau Love
Lil E

Re: .. just a few corrections..
 

I'd say that it is sometimes true that it's not their fault, but not always. And more often than not I'd say that there is something that they can and should change to fix themselves.

I actually know of a particular system where there are 4 NPC groups. 2 are above quota, can't even do Rush, another is almost there. The 4th group? They're about half of quota.

Because of group #4 Panhel will not expand until they meet quota. Is this fair to the women that ultimately decide not to join after going through rush because they were not happy with all the groups that were able to extend bids?

It was not my intention to say that you were wrong. It was my intention to say that the system is not always right.

Yep, I can see your point and I think you're absolutely right.. sometimes the existing groups aren't for everyone, and they may feel they need something new or different somehow, and sometimes that is what sparks a group to want to form another group to try to reach their goal.

In a way, it's hard on everyone when the campus isn't "open" for expansion - not only for the new group that wants to form, but also for the GLO's that are already there because they may have some difficulties with numbers or whatever else may be the case. I think situations like this are really hard when you are trying to not "step on anyone's toes".

expansion
 

>>>Because of group #4 Panhel will not expand until they meet quota<<<

KTSNAKE,
This is because that is the philosophy of NPC. They do not add houses at the expense of others. It is not enough that women going through recruitment are not getting bid to the house that they want, but whether they are getting bid at all.
I will agree with you that sometimes a small group CAN do things to increase their numbers, but you also need to consider the possibility that it may be that the numbers are not there.
Not liking what exists is NOT a reason for NPC to expand. I am getting the idea from you that IFC expands this way, but I assure you that NPC will not.

Re: expansion
 

Actually, each time on this campus we've added another organization no other organization's numbers were really hurt at all. If nothing else more quality men are going through rush.

I actually know that the #'s *are* there in this circumstance. It's just that they are currently being held back. Give 'em a few years I guess:D

Not saying that NPC is wrong in its philosphy.. just that it may not always be the best for the most people.

expansion, ad infinitum
 

>>>Actually, each time on this campus we've added another organization no other organization's numbers were really hurt at all. If nothing else more quality men are going through rush<<<


KTSNAKE,
Again, you are talking about MEN going through rush. At the risk of sounding sexist (and I am not) I have to say once more that you just cannot compare the IFC system to NPC. What works for one will not work for the other. Since IFC does not regulate a chapter total for the fraternities on a campus, and there is no quota for recruitment, it doesn't matter as much if a new group is formed.
For sororities, since recruitment is done very formally (hence the name FORMAL recruitment) they do experience a drop in quota and total if a new group comes to campus while one or more groups are struggling - and it does penalize the less strong. It does not serve to spark interest in the greek system as you have pointed out happened when new fraternities came to your school, it only dilutes the system that is in place for sororities to procure new members.

Re: expansion, ad infinitum
 

I'm not saying it's a bad system. Just that I don't understand why it puts the continued existance of a defective group ahead of the interest of individuals who would do well with the system and help it to grow. I can see how it benefits the GROUP but not the individual.

And I still don't buy into the fact that adding a group would hurt someone unless there was something fundamentally wrong and different about the chapter that was being hurt by it. At that point in my opinion it's forcing either reform or the dropping of dead weight.

I can understand why they do it but I simply don't agree that it's the best way:D I feel I'm entitled to my own stupid opinons.

>>>I feel I'm entitled to my own stupid opinons<<<

You are, that's the great thing about an open forum. You just can't ever win the debate when you are comparing IFC and NPC recruitment practices, because they can't be compared.

You know, I wish we had a PC here still, after TPA left we dropped formal rush and I really think my house would do much better at it than the locals...and Little E, our greek systems sound somewhat similar, so if you ever want to talk...

Lil E
The first thing you should do is contact AST's NPC delegation and get their advice and help. Sometimes the NPC delegates can talk things over at their level and clear up the confusion. In our organization, our NPC delegation wants to know ASAP if the campus is talking about extension. AST's NPC delegate is there to help you.
Best of luck to you and your chapter.

ktsnake, i think i see what you're saying about putting the "group" over the individual -- however, it would not be living up to our panhellenic standards to just let a group die out in favor of letting individuals pick up and start a new one, because usually the groups that aren't doing well in rush still have an amazing sisterhood that many women would be able to thrive in.

when a chapter dies out, it's more than just the "group" that goes away, it's ALL of the INDIVIDUALS who were working hard to save that chapter - the national representatives, the alumnae, the other panhellenic groups, and especially the sisters who not only have put time, energy, and heart into their chapter, but who will no longer be able to be in a sorority because once you've been initiated, you are bound to that group forever.

i think it's a good philosophy on the part of the NPC to encourage girls who didnt get bids to the house they might have originally wanted to go for the house they might not have wanted, because it strengthens the greek system as a whole. if panhel just let every weak chapter close and kept opening new ones, there would be no sense of continuity or tradition or support in the community. when my chapter colonized on campus, AGD's alpha chapter closed the next semester. they had been struggling for a few years, i think, but a lot of us felt guilty and as if we had a part in it. i can see it from both perspectives, but i do think in general its unfair to bring a new group to a campus where houses are struggling.

just my two cents.

thanks, IDIG
 

Very well said!

Meg, I would agree...if the NPC and its member groups would get rid of quota/total rules, and the rules that say housing etc must be fairly equal for all groups. However, I think piggies will be flying befoe that happens.

My 2 cents worth
 

I think one overlooked part of this is the fact that males and females make judgements differently. Females tend to go more on outward appearances to make snap decisions about groups. Girls who don't do their homework about sororities in general or who don't think long, hard, and deep about what they want out of Greek Life will see the small, struggling chapter and think "I don't want to be associated with that. . .what will everyone think?"

Guys, on the other hand, tend to think "hey, these 5 guys are cool, I like them a lot. I could be their brother, no prob. We'd have a great time."

That's why bringing a new sorority on campus when another one is struggling doesn't always have the same outcome as bringing a new fraternity on campus. It also depends on the attitude/atmosphere of the campus.

(NOTICE THAT THE ABOVE STATEMENTS ARE NOT ABSOLUTES. . .JUST PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS. thank you. :D )

The University of British Columbia will be inviting two sororities to enter the campus' Panhellenic system. This is such a great thing! Right now, campus total is at 50, and five of the seven sororities are at or above total, while two more have about 30 girls each. Inviting two new sororities on campus will ensure that chapters do not get too huge - I myself would rather have 50, not 80, sisters . . . I can't wait to find out who Panhell selects to come to campus!

When should a campus be opened for expansion?
 

I was just wondering what factors contribute to the campus NPC wanting to expand?

How do they select which groups may present?

Who makes the final decisions in the expansion?

texas--

From what I understand, the school has to apply to Panhellenic for expansion. The school them accepts "applications" from different organizations and interviews them. After the prelim interviews, the organizations are invited to the school to give a presentation. This is the part that I'm not sure about. I think that the people that go and are interested have to sign up, but I'm not sure. Have you thought about contacting Panhellenic on the issue?

expansion
 

Texas,
The Greek Affairs or Panhellenic office usually recognizes a need for a new sorority and that decision is most often made when the other chapters on campus are doing reasonably well and getting quota every year either through Formal Recruitment or COB. Another factor might be whether there are PNM's not getting bids during formal recruitment, which may indicate the need for more groups.
I think an "interest group" or a local sorority may also initiate the process, but the campus Panhellenic must agree, and as far as I know, they will ask for input from the existing groups. Someone feel free to correct this if it is incorrect, please.
Once a decision is made to expand, then the campus can ask certain groups to make presentations or they can just issue a general call for presentations through National Panhellenic. If there is a local sorority interested in going National, or an "interest group", they might ask the groups directly if they have particular ones they are interested in.
If there is no interest group formed, the National that is selected for the campus will then interview all women who are interested in them and make selections from applications. I have seen posts on GC where they do an interview process then actually have a Pref night.
This is not very detailed, but is generally the way it works. There is a wonderful thread in "Rush" by a woman is going throught the process make a local sorority national. She knows the process inside out, I am sure.

thanks ladies!
 

oceanphi & aopi,

thanks for the help. I just wanted to be sure how all the NPC expansion works since the particular chapter in this thread was having some troubles with the expansion.

i think having a new NPC on my campus would be awesome, so you may have given me some ideas to get the ball rolling :)

Re: expansion
 

That is correct. That's what happened with my chapter, actually. When a local sorority or interest group wants to become a chapter of an NPC sorority, step 1 is to get the local Panhel's blessing (if a Panhel exists). Only after that can NPC be contacted. The local can express a preference for a particular NPC sorority, and I don't believe that preference can be overridden by the local Panhel.

Little E's school's situation is a little unusual in that there isn't a Panhel in the "traditional" NPC sense (since there's only one NPC sorority at the moment).

Question:
Because we already have one NPC does that mean this new group has to ask for presentations? or can they directly ask one NPC to colonize? or dosen't NPC regulate this?

(for those who mentioned it earlier, our national know, and have known from the beginning, i am just curious for more info from people that might have had this on their campus.)

Tau love!

new group
 

Little E,
I THINK that the new group can contact one or more NPC's directly if they want to. Some interest groups form with the initial idea of asking "XYZ" to take them, based many times on research that the group has done on ideals, philanthropy, etc. If an interest group or local doesnt have an opinion about what National takes them, then I believe that NPC can issue an announcement in their newsletter for any group that may be interested in colonizing at your campus.

Re: My 2 cents worth
 

This simply isn't true. Guys don't just go, yeah i like them and i'll join. A lot of them evaluate it in the material sense. What girls will I meet? What parties will I be going to? Yeah that's not the central aspect of the fraternity, BUT that is still a part of it.

-Rudey

Ok so on the NPC expansion thought...I'm actually qutie frustrated with the whole process. My local sorority has gone talked with our pan-hel and we have talked and met with our NPC area advisor. It has been 2 semesters now and our iformation still hasnt been given to the other NPC sororities because of some hold up. Now going into next semester there is a new Pan-Hel board so we are basically starting form square one. This really frustrates me because we do have a lot of potential but unfortuetly we are stuck and we have no way of getting over the hump because of Panhellenic.
Another resaon that things are going at a quick pace from what i hear is that a national sorority on our campus, which will remain nameless cannot get their numbers up. and because of this it slows down our process. I understand that they are basically priority but at the same time it is a little unfair.
I dont mean to sound pissed i'm just a little frustrated with the situation. and honestly i dont understand it.

expansion
 

>>>national sorority on our campus, which will remain nameless cannot get their numbers up. and because of this it slows down our process<<<

Rayray,
I can understand the frustration you and your sisters must feel because you are anxious to go national and I encourage you to continue to "start at square one" as many times as it takes.
You are right that the process will be slowed by an existing NPC that is struggling. That does not further your cause, I know, but you would not like it if there were something underway at your campus that would, for all intents and purposes, push your sorority to oblivion. I applaud a campus Panhellenic that will not rush to expand at the expense of other houses.
Does your group participate in recruitment with the NPC groups? Is this possible? That might be a way to start. Just a thought. Merry Christmas to all.

After seeing the site of Beloits list of current and ex greeks I am astounded!

What a great list of great Fraternity/Soroitys.

The sad part is the ones who were there for many years, changed names or were closed.

It seems, that it would take a concentrated effort by all of teh Greeks on campus to work together and inform the students of what is could mean to them to be members.

I know the same situation is at my school of yore! 6 Fraternitys and only 3 Soroitys. I am talking of a 6500 student school and maybe 10% are Greeks!:(

But the Key is getting the Chapters together to get off of their butts to work together, just the same as my Alma Mater.

Show what Greek Liffe can be like, promote, advertise and rush like hell to increase numbers!:)