Unrecognized chapters continue to use Fraternity Letters
 

http://www.buvoice.com/news/338845.html?mkey=113175

thoughts?

All I can say is it's a sad thing to see a chapter go dormant... But the members need to accept that. Sounds like these guys are suffering from some huge issues with denial.

I wish ACACIA HQ luck in their lawsuit against these guys. I really would be pretty upset if a chapter of Sigma Nu had their charter pulled for legitimate reasons (like debt) and still continued to operate under our name. It's not fair when a group like that actually represents another group that has no affiliation with it.

well, if they're unrecognized, Bloomsburg might want to take them off their server. that would be a good start.

http://planetx.bloomu.edu/~rspastor/akak.html

I'm guessing that this situation is more common that we realize.

Hmmm....

I just followed a link on the page 33girl posted listing their actives.

The first group is listed as, "Founding Fathers from Lamda Chi Alpha."

So, what we have here is a group of LXA's who became Acacia's somehow for some reason and then got their charter in the NEW group yanked?

How does that happen, and what kind of a group are we talking about here?

I couldn't get the link to work...
 

...but anyway.
OK-I am not defending these guys getting their charter taken. But hear me out....

I don't know what "operating under the name" means. Are they actually rushing? Are they advertising their parties as Acacia parties? Are they doing Philanthropy stuff and making new t-shirts with letter etc. on it,

Or..... is it just a bunch of Acacia brothers/now alumni, (I am assuming they are still brothers-just b/c you lose the charter doesn't mean you are kicked out) who live together, what not, and are throwing parties. Because that is a catch twenty two thing. They probably have some "more than three brothers together-it's a frat function" rule (lie most orgs. now) , yet they are really just some guys who are still friends and still do stuff. And I guess if five guys throw a party and two are wearing jersey's and one's wearing a baseball cap with letters...to the casual observer, it would appear they are still "operating" asa fraternity when in fact...that is not their intention.

I couldn't get the link to work to their website so I don't about the LXA fonder thing.

Just my .02 on the flip side. Playing Devil's advocate , just a past time....
Order of the Blue Blue Violet

KKI
There's a sense of belonging in friendship...

There's a fraternity on my campus that lost their charter last spring. They're now operating "underground" and are not recognized by the University. The organization is now referred to by their old chapter letters rather than by their former fraternity letters.

On a similar note, there's also a Lambda Chi Alpha interest group. They are recognized by the University, but are not allowed to use those letters. The student organizations office registers this interest group as "Lambda Chi Organization."

Re: I couldn't get the link to work...
 

That website hasn't been updated since 1999, which is probably when they lost their charter.

From reading these boards, I have learned that NPC women cannot normally be initiated into another NPC sorority at a later time... is that also "illegal" in the NIC world?

Here's An Example
 

At Florida State University in Tallahassee, the SAEs (charter revoked two years ago) operate a house on 'fraternity row' complete with lions out front. They are the 'Lions Club', but they advertise in the student newspaper as SAE. There is an unofficial Delta Chi interest group on campus. Zeta Beta Tau's national recognizes their chapter, but the chapter registered as an independent 'student organization' rahter than affiliating with IFC. The school has 21 IFC fraternities, plus traditional Black & multicultural fraternities, and an active involved Greek Affairs staff. No one seems to be overly concerned and the system is strong.

That was my point, although I guess I didn't spell it out! I don't know about all of the fraternities, but it's certainly verboten in ours.

I think this group may be totally out of control

From reading these boards, I have learned that NPC women cannot normally be initiated into another NPC sorority at a later time... is that also "illegal" in the NIC world? [/B][/QUOTE]

Actually-the Boys of the NIC are a little more lenient. Their website says that a member can be iniated into another NIC frat. if the second NIC frat. has a letter saying that the first NIC frat. has relinquinshed their membership. SOOOO as far as the NIC goes-it's OK. But some of the individual groups have a rule in their own constituions that they won't accept former members of other frats. I do not know which are which, but I do know a few guys who have done this. The guys don't seem to care much at all. I think they get a charge out of someone wanting to come into their org and leave another. I've never heard of it happening when both groups are on the same campus. Usually it's a transfer student who didn't like his experience at his old school. That's how it's been here anyway.:)

I think that is really cool that you have that "clause" in your organization.

Does this mean Delta Tau Delta members cannot be initated into another NIC fraternity, or you cannot initate members who were previously from another NIC fraternity, or both?

Sorry for the 500 questions! I'm just intruiged!

I once knew a girl who was a member of a NPC sorority and two local sororities. It was always interesting to see her sporting all three badges. Maybe its just me, but I think I'd feel funny joining another sorority, local or whatever. It would just feel wrong.

Jags
 

I've actually heard of this a lot, even within my own fraternity. It sucks when HQ wants to colonize at a school, that the chapter was disbanded ages ago for hazing, to find out that the chapter is there and using your letters or simply decided to alter it slightly by adding "organization" or another meaningless letter to the end.

-Rudey
--A bunch of losers who get absolutely nothing but a couple letters on their shirts.

I didn't know you could be in an NPC and join a local, let alone two. Are there any rules against this?

In Sigma Nu if you have ever been initiated into another fraternity -- NIC (or I'm sure in most chapters any other NIC social-type) then you are not eligible to be initiated into Sigma Nu. Has it happened? I'm sure it has. They'd have to lie to get in but that doesn't stop a lot of people. I guess you could say they would never truely be Sigma Nu's.. At least they would be on paper.

From what she told me, you can be in however many local whatevers you wish, as long as they don't have any agreement between them that you could only be in one (kind of like all the NPC sororities). As for the NPC, it only states you cannot join another NPC sorority. I believe the reason she was in so many was because she transferred schools like 4 times.

A little background on this chapter. Back when I was in school, 1992-93 let's say, this group was LXA. Then, LXA revoked their charter for a big party bust, and the group when AXL (original!). After about 2-3 years of that, the group was taken on by ACACIA. They lost their charter in 1999 from ACACIA for numerous reasons, as you read.

As a former student at this university, I can tell you with all honesty that there are SO MANY groups like this. Fraternities go in and out of there like a revolving door. ACACIA isn't the only group on campus that does this...Pi Kappa Phi and Alpha Sigma Phi do it too. Theta Chi did it for awhile, then they went local, and now Alpha Tau Omega picked them up.

33, that website address is that of a current student, and the University doesn't regulate what individual students post, so that's why the site is still up there.

Kat,

I suppose the question here is whether any single member was ever a member of both LXA and Acacia (or whichever two groups you want to choose), or whether the different fraternities chartered a group with a common lineage. Does that make sense?

In other words, had all of the LXA brothers graduated before the decendents of the group became Acacia, etc.?

Yes, no brothers of Acacia were LXA too. They were local for a few years, so all the LXA's had graduated before ACACIA took them on. But the LXAs started the whole thing (LXA/AXL/ACACIA) and when they have homecoming and alum events, the LXA men go to ACACIA.

Thanks Kat,

That makes more sense -- and feels a lot better -- than thinking there were people out there with memberships of two NIC fraternities. Although I know that there have been "mergers" in the past which could have made that possible. I see this case as different however. Somehow.

Although I'm not sure how I'd defend that feeling.

NIC, just like NPC, forbids people who have joined a member organization from ever under any circumstances joining a second member organization.

I agree with what was said earlier -- if the guys were simply turned into alumni, and happen to still be wearing their letters, then fine. Leave them alone.

ON THE OTHER HAND -- if they're still operating as a NIC Fraternity, just without the rules of NIC -- that's not cool at all.

Can anyone confirm either way?

While that might be an actual rule, I dont know how strictly the "ever, under any circumstances," part is enforced.

There are honorary memberships that take place as alumni, and its with the consent of both orgs. Example, Chuck Psyser was initiated as an Undergratue member of Delta Tau Delta, and was initiated years later as a faculty advisor at the University of the South as a Lambda Chi. He now serves as Lambda Chi's official Historian. I asked him about this in 1995 and he told me that it was done by approval of both orgs, with the understanding that, "while he was with one group, he would not discuss the secrets of the other group."

I would imagine that some of our groups would not be opposed to this situation if there was some compelling reason to doing it, financial, or emotional, for example: a man was initiated as a Sigma Chi and his son was an ATO pledge and died before intiation, and ATO wanted to initiate dad as an honor to the son. That stuff is prolly more common than we know about because most of us might be uncomfortable with the knowledge that some people had dual memberships. I can even remember hearing of one of the NPC groups who had initiated a man who had been instramental to their founding. I believe in reality its not that big of a deal.

I would rather have a man who was initiated as a Sig Ep who had helped out our chapter and been very concerned with our chapter and devoted time, energy and money to it become an honorary member of my org than some punk ass 18 year old who might tell his gf stuff about rit, or get initiated, loose interest and ghost, or even have to expell a member for conduct unbecoming. Wouldnt you? Its not so black and white... especially at the Headquarters level of ops.

Now, why I dont agree withthe following, its not out of the realm of possibility. I also dont know how isolated of an occurence it is, but I have I have heard of fraternitiy chapters letting their housemoms watch ritual. (no, this isnt about my chapter...we dont have houses at my school) I once had an NIC consultant tell me when he was a consultant for XXX fraternity he was conducting a scheduled chapter visit at a large school in texas, and his visit happened to coinside with their ritual performance. While preparing to watch ritual with the undergrad memebers, they brought their housemom down to watch. He was like, "WTF?" and they told him shed been watching for years. He made her leave, but I'd bet my next paycheck that she was back at the next ritual performance...and at the request of the undergrads.


Just some things to think about

HotDamn, they are still functioning as if they were an NIC fraternity; they have recruitment, mixers, philanthropy, new members, the whole nine yards!

lifesaver:

As far as the examples you described, IMO that is what honorary memberships and recognitions are for. For example, ASA has a Mother Patroness award. If, say, a DG served as a chapter advisor for years for one of our chapters, we could give her this award and it would be fine. Same with a male - only we could give him our Phoenix Recognition (I don't think guys would be too thrilled to be Mother Patroness).

I think things like this should be available in every org, if they're not already.

Right, but as in the case for my org, an honorary membership requires the honoree to attend a ritual perofrmance. They arent a member unless they witness a ritual. Honorary or otherwise. Do yall have a ceremony for the Phoenix men? Does the chapter advisor getting the Patroness award go through your ritual? Thats what I am talking about, because thats what Euopolis referd to, the NAIC rule about "NIC, just like NPC, forbids people who have joined a member organization from ever under any circumstances joining a second member organization." I mean technically they arent "joining" but are being asked to join and its honorary, vs. sought after membership.

I was just wondering. Because I know some groups have no honary memberships. I think I saw on here Sigma Nu has none.

Nope. Although we do initiate brothers as alums from time to time.. An advisor for example that has been very dedicated. But they are full initiates in the same sense that we are. They pay initiate dues (or have them paid by the chapter) the same as anyone else.

They get a regular badge number and everything though so they are not in any way "honorary".

Yeah, same thing for us. Maybe its KA. I dunno. I do remember it being one of the traditionally "southern" fraternities.

We still call it an "honorary initiation.' Like if it was a bros dad or someone not connected withthe university.

Its called a "faculty initiation" if its someeone connected to the univ.

My chapter has done two such "faculty initiations" since 96. Both well respectd brothers who have done a tremendous amount of work for the chapter.

They would not go through our initiation ritual - we would have an open ceremony for them. And that would vary from chapter to chapter. We are not making them a member - we are recognizing their accomplishments. Sorry if this is apples and oranges to what you were talking about.

@#$%, Heather, didn't mean to hijack your thread. :)