Fake Pi Kappa Phi Chapter!?!
 

Whoa, I think I just stumbled upon bizzaro land!

I am a Pi Kappa Phi and came across this website:
http://www.angelfire.com/oh4/Countryclub00/

They are a Pi Kappa Phi chapter at Otterbein College near Columbus, Ohio. This is right from their website:
We are a local fraternity, which means that we are in no way affiliated with the national Pi Kappa Phi Fraternity.

Here is the link to Otterbein College's greek life website. Pi Kappa Phi Country Club as they call themselves are not listed there.
http://www.otterbein.edu/studentlife...frat_soror.asp

Pi Kappa Phi was founded in 1904 and we have 120 some active chapters. I am very confused as to how they can exist under the same name as my fraternity?

Perhaps it is an arrangement like Kappa Alpha Order and Kappa Alpha Society?

If it's not listed in their school's thing, that's weird.

I don't think they are really "fake"
 

IMO-they are not trying to be like PKPhi fraternity. They even said in the website that they are not affiliated with you. So I wouldn't classify them as fake. They also call themselves Pi Kappa Phi Country Club. I know it's close, and I can see why you'd be a little tiffed, but they are technically going by a different name too. Maybe the things they stand for go with the letters Pi Kappa Phi and they weren't trying to rip you off. Have you emailed them to see what the deal is, if they are trying to copy you or if they just happen to have the same letters. There's an international society for women called Delta Phi Epsilon and they are not related to the NPC sorority. Just a thought.....

maybe they are just considered a "club" and not so much a recognized fraternity?

i'm guessing maybe they didn't do the name thing on purpose.. perhaps they picked the name awhile back when the local was founded and just recently realized it was, in fact, a name of a national fratnerity. :confused:

First of all, although I dearly love Pi Kappa Phi, (my best friend is a Pi Kapp), I think you are wrong in labeling this group as fake. Groups sharing the same letters is not an unheard of thing, albeit not a necessarily appropriate thing. There is a local fraternity in California with the same name as my sorority, but I consider them a real organization. Calling them fake would be denying their heritage and their values. Just because they aren't listed on the Greek website doesn't necessarily mean anything. My sorority isn't listed on any part of the Greek portion of the MTSU website. We are a national organization, and National considers us Greek. We have another website on geocities.com, and are listed on our campus website under student organizations. Have you tried looking under this heading on their campus website?

As sfasammy said, there maybe a situation similar to Kappa Alpha Order and Kappa Alpha Society. Although I can understand confusion at the fact their letters are the same as yours, if they do not claim to be affiliated with your fraternity, why does it matter that much? I know your letters and their meanings are special to you, but I'm sure their letters and their meanings are just as special to them.

I'm no legal person but I do think that GLO's have trademarked/copyrighted our letters (well many of us have). Your HQ might see it fit to pursue the matter in court. I definitely wouldn't want someone who was NOT a Sigma Nu walking around representing us. These guys are representing your organization and that can be dangerous.

NPC recently had to change the name of the recruitment counselors because Rho Chi was a pharmaceutical fraternity. I would imagine that you could argue the same case...that the name Pi Kappa Phi is already in use. For them to acknowledge that they are not a part of Pi Kappa Phi national fraternity, that means that they also acknowledge the existance of it and realize that the name is in use.

While I can sort of agree that yes, many groups have trademarked letters/names... why would you do something like that? I think it would be bad PR for say, Pi Kappa Phi for example, to pursue such a thing... but that's just my opinion...

Just as MSTUGurl said, while your letters and meanings are special to you, the other group holds the same letters, and different meanings special to them as well... it's not like they are claiming to be part of the national organization... they clearly state they are not affiliated. and it's just like i mentioned before... perhaps they didn't know another organization called Pi Kappa Phi existed in the first place. They were founded just 4 years after the national organization, and being it was a LONG time ago, I don't think they named their organization the same thing on purpose because greek letter organizations probably weren't as big then as they are now

I disagree. By calling themselves Pi Kappa Phi's and not actually belonging they are still representing Pi Kappa Phi to those people who don't know. If they were implicated in a drug/sex/alcohol scandal they would be named on the news as Pi Kappa Phi. Do you think the news be likely to put a disclaimer on there saying that they in no way were associated with the National NIC Fraternity?

You can go to www.uspto.gov and search to see if your group has your letters, crest, etc. trademarked. Pi Kappa Phi does not, and doesn't appear to have even dead trademarks that weren't renewed. So in reality, any group can call themselves Pi Kappa Phi and that's fine. As for the other Delta Phi Epsilon, they are an international service fraternity, and the reason it's ok for them to do that, is because we don't have our letters/name trademarked yet.

To each their own, I guess. And while you do have a point, (about the news putting a disclaimer..) these guys are not openly "pretending" to be a part of the national NIC organization. It is an entirely separete entity.

Not everyone is perfect, and sometimes things do go wrong, but on the opposite side of the sword, what if some members of the NIC Pi Kappa Phi chapters did something wrong... would they say "these guys are the NIC organization, not the Pi Kappa Phi Country Club" ? Probably not.

They have to deal with the same repercussions. Just because they are not an NIC organization I don't think it would be right to call them "fake" or make them change their name.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? We're not listed on our school's "thing"-I'm assuming you mean website, and we're not listed on our school's website because we are not recognized by our school.

If this other org was founded only four years after Pi Kappa Phi, I would bet a large sum of money that many, many members before you have become aware of this group and brought it to the attention of your nationals long before now. If they haven't gotten excited because this group has the same letters yet, they're not going to get excited now.

By all means, feel free to mention it to your HQ, but don't expect them to do much. And let them handle it rather than taking on this organization yourself.

This thread.. i have seen things on this before but the link to patents was neat.. (thanks shadokat).

I looked up Pi Phi and found out that we have the design of how our letters apear on our badge trademarked. I dont think you can have the letters but I guess a specific design. It would be interesting to know if there are more things that we have patented or trademarked.

Back to the post.. I know that it would be frustrating to see someone with the same name as your organization, but there is really nothing you can do unless they are trying to portray themselves as you.. which it doesnt appear like they are doing. All those freedoms we have.. gosh :D (I am just going off my own knowledge of the matter.. I could be wrong)

I relize the errors of my ways...
 

I know that calling them "fake" was wrong. Obviously Pi Kappa Phi Country Club is not a fake organization and I am sure they have a lot of dedicated brothers and alumni.

I did not post this in the spirit of wanting to blow up their house or make them change their name or anything like that.

I like to think of myself as a student of fraternal history and more so Pi Kappa Phi history. I would more than anything like to hear back from the Country Club Brothers to see what they have to say.

As someone mentioned, I would imagine that I am not the fist Pi Kapp to notice this coincidence of names. I am thinking maybe there is some interesting story behind all this...

shadokat - awesome & very interesting link!

There's also a local fraternity (I forget where) called Alpha Sigma Tau...obviously no connection to the natl sorority Alpha Sigma Tau.

A lot of times when systems are all local they have no clue about what national fraternities are out there. That's not a slam, just a statement. Think about how many of us in nationals had not heard of this or that national GLO - and we often have a list of them in our pledge manuals.

This situation isn't much different than Kappa Alpha Order and Kappa Alpha Society sharing similar names.

Does anyone know if Kappa Alpha Order and Kappa Alpha Society ever have chapters on the same campus?

Does that cause any problems?

Eh? They are representing Pi Kappa Phi Country Club "a local fraternity in no way associated with Pi Kappa Phi National Fraternity." How is that representative of the national Pi Kappa Phi? Just because someone may not know the difference between the two doesn't mean that they are representing themselves as the natioanl fraternity. Unless they are claiming to be a chapter of the national but other than that I see no representation but a disclaimer stating they are not a chapter of the national.

About the whole name thing, even if Pi Kappa Phi had their name, letters and crest protected by a copyright or trademark doesn't guarantee them a win in court. It would depend on the legal name that is protected under the trademark/copyright. There are so many businesses that are operating under the same name, it's sick.

Not to mention what kind of case it might bring for such a group if they don't have an active chapter in the same state as the Pi Kappa Phi country club. Yadda yadda yadda......and so on and so fourth.

Kappa Alpha Society only has 11 active chapters. They are at:

Union College
Hobart College
Princeton University
University of Toronto
Lehigh University
McGill University
University of Pennsylvania
University of Western Ontario
Wesleyan University
University of Alberta
University of Calgary

Of these schools, Kappa Alpha Order only has a chapter at Princeton (unless I have missed one). Don't know if they have any confusion problem.

What's to be confused about?

There are only 13,824 unique combinations of three greek letters, and only 576 unique combinations of 2 greek letters. So it's not surprising that some groups share names, particularly with the incredible number of local fraternities that have existed over the years.

13,824 sounds like a big number, but it's not when you consider that the letters stand for greek mottoes which are all very similar and use the same greek words. So it's unlikely many of those 13,824 combinations would be chosen. Plus, you have to immediately discount Delta Upsilon Mu, Alpha Sigma Sigma, Phi Upsilon Kappa and the like as suitable combinations for obvious reasons.

Anyway, I see nothing wrong with this - ethically or legally. You can't put 10,000 people in a stadium and then act surprised when there's more than one guy in there named Bob.

And if your name is Bob, I'm sure when you meet another guy named Bob, you don't start getting up in his face and demanding to know what he's all about. And if this Bob guy does something stupid, you don't particularly worry how it reflects on you, or on "Bobdom" as a whole. And Bob probably doesn't go around telling all the other Bobs that he's the only REAL Bob because he was there first and has more chapters.

The word "Bob" has now lost all meaning for me and thi spost has given me a headache. Point is, it's no big deal.

wptw

If it is legal then what's the point of a trademark?

Let's say someone wants to start a fraternity and they like the letters TKE. Is their anything to prevent them from using the name TKE Society or TKE Order?

Part of it bothers me but then I look at their page and think “1908” that’s one hell of a long time to be maintaining a local. I don’t think I would be as forgiving if this was going on now with some upstart local.

Just thought I would remark my surprise - Almost half of those chapters are Canadian!

Forgiving or not, from a legal standpoint, you still might not have a case.

wptw,

The words Tau Kappa Epsilon are a registered trademark with the Patent and Trademark office. I don't know if you add society or order if you can use it. I would be willing to bet that SOME infringement would apply.

Could you please direct me to the part of my post that made any comment towards legal action against this organization?

Basic assumption considering the fact that if you didn't think about taking legal action, wihat other way would you be "not as forgiving?"

Update on fake Pi Kapps....
 

Hey Swede,
Here is what I know of this chapter and let me preface this entire email by saying I do not like it (HATE IT!), but it is there.
Now remember, all of this is what was told to me by another Brother so I am not 100% accurate.
This chapter is a rogue chapter from 1908 that was supposed to join Nationals, but for some reason did not (and I dont know why). If you notice, their colors are different (orange, not yellow) but everything else is the almost the same. Now that they have been around for almost 100 years, it may be a little late to change things. The Brother that told me about them had a hat made in their colors as a joke during Mid-Year, but no one even noticed that there was a difference.:cool:
That is all I know but I will try to get more info and keep you informed.
I hope you and ALL the PI KAPPS around the world have a wonderful and safe Christmas and that we are all blessed.

Peace to you my Brother,
Garrick Hill
DB 522

DPhiE is trademarked and I think there is another Glo that uses those letters.

Does anyone know anything on Trademark/Copyright law?

I am just curious.

Just because there's a "Tau Kappa Epsilon International Fraternity, Inc." out there does not necessarily prohibit me from starting a group and calling it Tau Kappa Epsilon.

Think about how many "Smith Chevrolet" dealerships or "Bob's Restaurants" there must be in this country. Same deal.

Greek letters are just that - letters. There's only so much legal protection you can give to a name consisting of 3 greek letters. It's not like they came up with something completely original like "Xerox" or anything - they just plunked three letters together. That's bound to produce duplication.

The trouble only begins when I try to use someone else's protected mark for profit or to enhance the recognition of my own group. So I'm fine as long as my hypothetical fledgling TKE group does not use a similar crest or badge, or in any way try to identify itself with the national group.

wptw