grrrrr
 

just need to vent.....we're having trouble keeping our house, because we have brothers and pledges who point-blank refuse to live there, and I have had it. We have a brother who refuses to move in, because he can't live without his housecleaner. We have another who is just plain pissy, and is paying double to live in his own place across town. Then there are a couple who refuse to leave the dorms, for reasons I really can't understand. They're rubbing off on our pledges, who are demanding to be allowed to live out of house, or be given singles, or some other outrageous thing. And the brothers in the house are angry, because they can't see why they should follow the rules when someone else flaunts them.

So what to do? I don't want to tell the brothers who are in violation they can't come to the house anymore, because I don't know how I would enforce it short of physically removing them. Same for the pledges- I don't know what to do with otherwise good guys who refuse to live in the house. This is one of those times I wish we had a national or an alumni corp. or something- someone else to be the bad guy, rather than the officers taking the blame all the time.

Apparently keeping the house is not that important to them. If I was in the same situation I'd rent the house out to another group that actually wanted it.

Re: grrrrr
 

Let me get this straight, a pledge is refusing to support the fraternity? Please tell me you have a blackball system.

that's ridiculous
 

:eek:
i thought that having a house was a good thing. why would you not want to live in a house with all your brothers? my sorority would love to have a house and i am trying to formulate a plan to get one in the next year or so. if you lived in our area we would be happy to take it off your hands. it sounds like perhaps some of your brothers have problems with each other and not the house.
DELTA PHI MU

Hrm...don't you have what some places call a "parlor fee"? I know of one sorority at my alma mater that charged a set amount of "extra" dues that a member had to pay if they chose not to live in. After all, the meetings and events are held in the house. It's there for everyone, not just the live-in members.

Since it's sounds like you're stressing the money issue, maybe this is something to consider?

.....Kelly :)

Pass a resolution in the housing commitee requiring pledges to move in the next year after pledging and set a minum of semesters they have to live there.

Optimist has a good idea.

If they want singles, let them have them. Just let them know that they'll be paying extra for it.

Watch me play Devil's Advocate
 

...I've been there. Not on your side, but on the side of the people who just didn't want to live in house. My sophomore year (the fall after I pledged), I was a dorm counselor and was exempt from living in house (keep in mind, our "house" is simply one-third of a dormitory in a quadrangle built for fraternities). I liked being a part of the house, but could not have imagined myself living there. There were problems with EVERYTHING, problems that didn't happen to me in my freshman dorm OR in the dorm where I lived my sophomore year. Add to the fact that I just didn't mesh with the girls who were in charge that year (all conservative and a bit on the racist side), and you couldn't have paid me to live in-house. That actually caused a lot of problems, where my loyalty as a member (keep in mind I was one of the most active, and if I hadn't gone abroad, would have been chapter president) was questioned and I had women who claimed to be my friends and sisters say some of the meanest, most vile things to me. My junior year, I lived in a suite with some friends and had a BLAST (yes, there were some problems, but typical). This year, I decided to live in-house. I'm serious when I say that every day there is something new. I've stopped using the house kitchen (and cook at Mr. Munchkin03's or in the Independent kitchen) because it's nasty and no one wants to clean it up. There are girls here who pretend that they have maids, the kitchen, bathroom, and common areas are that unsanitary. There are factions between the first and second floors. There are always catty little accusations of theft, and I know of a few people already who are going to deactivate because things suck so badly. These are previously loyal members, who feel the house has deteriorated into a sham. It's things like that which make people not want to live in-house.

Sorry for the rant. I just got my second deactivation letter of the semester (I'm VP-Finance) and I'm more than a little annoyed, because I know what's happening. This probably doesn't apply to your situation, but a lot of people feel completely justified in the decision not to live in-house, and I can't say I don't agree with them. Living in a fraternity house, even if you're a member, isn't what everyone wants to do. Is that really a problem? The only way I can see getting around it is assigning a point system for housing assignments for the next year, and by requiring at least one year in house.

Re: Re: grrrrr
 

Blackballing someone isn't going to help you fill your house. You would just end up with even less members and the friends of the blackballed members won't be standing in line to pledge next semester.

You should find out why they don't want to live in the house and correct the situation.

What if the guys that live there are slobs? Would any of you want to move in?

I agree with optimist prime.

Let pledges know that when they pledge, they are obligated to live in the house for a minimum specified amount of time if the house is under quota.

If they decide that they do not want to live in the house (and its for other reasons then financial constraints) then I probably would ask them to evaluate their purpose for joining a fraternity if they do not desire to support it.

For the people that live out, charge a live out/Parlor fee.

Many chapters design it so that paying the parlor fee + paying their living expenses discourages members from living out.

I know a sorority here at IU that charges about $2500 for liveout fees!

If you dont want to punish/discourage your members with the fee, at least design it to generate some extra cash flow.

I would also make them sign contracts and sign up for a collection or financial agency. Many brothers dont understand that money has to come from somehwere. Dont let then figure this out when its too late.

I wouldnt reccomend leasing your house away just yet either. Well, at least not totally.

This may sound dumb, but there are many chapters that take borders, i.e. non-members who pay rent to live in fraternity houses becuase they are cheap and convenient.

If you think about it, there are many things that a fraternity house offers that an aptartment/dorm can not...and vice versa. There are guys out there that like that.

Fight to keep your house though. At Indiana University, giving your house away is basically a nail in the coffin.

I understand your predicament, its hard...actually I'll say its impossible to tell brothers that they cant come around. However, if the future of your chapter is at stake, then you may have to make some drastic changes.

I know my sorority's house is completely dry, which is a huge turnoff to people who are over 21. However, we have a housing policy which states that 4 members of exec MUST live in the house, the president being one of them. I think the thing to do is make is seem like a privilege to live there, not something you're forced to do.

Maybe you should contact your nationals. If a national consultant stopped by for a week and explained the seriousness of the situation and consequences to the group, they might get farther. I think the attitude right now is that everyone believes they "deserve" to live wherever they want. The physical house is a business. It needs funds to run. Without enough money, you will be unable to pay your mortgage, lights, etc. Being part of the fraternity means taking on responsibility for the facilities as well!

The parlor fee thing reminded me of something. When I was treasurer and we had everyone move out of the house at once I charged EVERY member an empty-room fee to make up for the lost rent.

You might want to look into the underlying reasons as to why they don't want to live in the house. If they want singles, give them singles if they are willing and able to pay. Make the house nicer than on campus housing. If they want a maid, hire a maid who cleans the common areas weekly or every other week. A resolution can read that members must live in the house for at least one year unless they live at home or are resident advisors.

How bad of a condition is this house in that they don't want to live there?

This has been a point of discussion in the past. My daughter is very excited about living in the house next year. It's a pretty "cushy" set up and all Juniors must do this. If you are on the board, you also must live in the house. They have a parlor fee even though their house is full.

On the other hand...My son and his friends say things like they don't think they want to because-
1.If you have nice things, they will get damaged.
2.If you have nice clothes, everyone will want to borrow them.
3.UNSTATED but implied :rolleyes: GIRLS!
4.Study time would be difficult with brothers in and out-the ruckus.
5.Privacy

From what they say, there would have to be some way to put boundries in place and if you are a "laid back" kind of guy, it would be hard to self impose the above list. Don't overlook the possiblity that some parents may not like the idea because of their own images of an "Animal House" atmosphere. What guy would honestly say, "My Mommy and Daddy won't let me."

I come from a time when everyone wanted to live in the house. There were less rules, more freedom, and nicer enviornent.

Now the universities build houusing to compete----apartments, suites, etc.----and don't have the rules we did so long ago. (I know you all don't know what a curfew is or that you could end up expelled if you were locked out!).

But now as back then, our national policies state that women are required to live in the house if it's not full. When full, each chapter can decide it's policies on who's required to live in.
We also have a parlor fee for those that don't live in----they should share the cost if they reap the benefits of using it.

I have to say, it's an interesting conversation, but none of your suggestions are very pertinent. We don't have a national- we don't even have an alumni corp. Every decision is made at chapter meeting.

Our house is beautiful- I would argue it was the best house here until Theta Chi gutted and renovated their house. We have all the amenities the dorms do- high-speed internet, cable and telephones in the rooms, etc. The rooms are absolutely huge compared to the dorms, and it's cheaper to live in the house than on-campus or off-campus. I do not have a problem with too much noise or not being able to study- I actually have a problem with getting a little creeped out, because the place is like a tomb on weeknights. It's about ten minutes walk from the academic core of campus. It has a huge parking lot, and a huge backyard. The place is amazing- my parents not only don't have a problem with my living there, they wish they had something like it when they were at school (their college didn't have a Greek system).

The reasons given for not wanting to live there are either stupid- there's no smoking in the house, we have cable instead of satellite, it's too far from a particular department's building, etc.- or just wrong- it's too loud to study- or selfish- freshmen demanding singles that are reserved for officers or seniors. The only excuse I've heard that I can give an credence to is about the showers- we have a lockerroom style group shower, which doesn't bother me, but I can understand can bother some people.

We already HAVE a rule that says everyone has to live in the house unless it's full- and it's not full. Our house sleeps 22, but 16 is the minimum needed to pay the mortgage. We have 16 brothers eligible to live in the house, but only 9 of them will. And because the brothers refuse, the pledges think (correctly) that they can get away with it too.

This semester, we had 9 brothers in the house, along with 6 boarders (whom I overcharged, massively). For the spring, we're sharing the house with Sigma Tau Gamma, on the theory that living with another fraternity will be better than living with GDI's- at least they'll do their share of the chores. I know I will never, ever get parlor fees through, because the out-of-housers will threaten to walk- and while I think that'd be just fine, most of my brothers don't. (Never a year goes by when we aren't stupid about money- this semester we underestimated our budget by about $1000- no Christmas formal for us.)

This is one of those times I wish we had a national, because at least I'd have someone to make into a scape-goat- I don't enjoy always being the heavy.

I think the easiest way to deal with live-in problems is by creating a point system. You can give points for involvement in the chapter (holding office, participating in IM's, etc.) as well as involvement on campus and maintaining a high GPA. You can put the point system in your bylaws and then put rules in your bylaws about who has to live in. It should be the people with the lowest number of points and then certain officers.

In terms of being the enforcer I would just lay it all out at meeting. Explain that each month you have to have x amount in order to pay the rent and that you have three choices: (1) people can move in, (2) you can increase dues of live-outs to make up for the fact that they won't move in or (3) you can have other people live in your chapter house. Most chapters will have people move in.

In terms of parlor fees, they are basically just house usage fees for members who do not live in the chapter house. Most organizations have them in some form or another. It sounds like you guys really need to sit down and look at your budget and dues and make some tough decisions about where you want to go as an organization.

Good luck!

Laura

Now, I tend to disagree on that a bit. Maybe it's a good idea for those who aren't from the area. But I know that I am from the town my college is in. I live at home with my parents. I never actually go to our house unless I have to, simply because I have my own place (in a sense). The whole point of living at home was to avoid room and board fees. I think it would be discouraging to members from the local area if they would be forced to pay a sort of *housing fee* while they wouldn't have to if they remained unaffilliated.

Oneplusone . . .

Most of the people up there had good points.

More than anything else you need your house for social functions. If you are a local I assume you have mixers etc in your house . . . so its crucial to keep it.

When I originally arranged a house for my chapter I had the same kind of problems and even ended with people owing money and not wanting to pay. However, the chapter was willing to put up money rather than losing social options.

Instead of calling it a parlor fee, which is honest, raise your social dues as necessary to match the mortgage payments. In fact raise them a little anyway to give even more incentive to live in the house (less rent).

Sharing your house with another Fraternity doesn't sound like that great an idea. Assuming they want to have functions also. With GDI's you can invite them to mixers or parties as a courtesy.

With another groups it gets a little strange, are you going to combine programs?

Putting in shower stalls over the break should be simple, simple partitions are easy and relatively cheap.

But the bottom line is: Do everything in your power to keep the house under your chapter's control. That is the number one priority.

And the people that said that punishment won't work are correct. they'll just laugh at you or never pass it.

Re: grrrrr
 

a house cleaner? are you kidding me? man, what a bunch of spoiled brats. i guess that's what happens when you're spoiled by your parents.

Re: grrrrr
 

a house cleaner? are you kidding me? clean it your damn self. man, what a bunch of spoiled brats. i guess that's what happens when you're spoiled by your parents.

I do not care who says what on GC. But Parlor Fees are for those that do not live in the House but seem to want to be there when something or nothing is going on! Just to be with your Bro/Sis.

You do not go to the House. Why?

You got to the House, do you sit on furniture, watch TV, Use the Bathroom, Drink the water, use the heat or air while you are there!

Just who do you think pays for this!

If there is room to live in the House and you do not live there, then the Active loses money to have functions, whether it be social or charitable!

It does cost money to put either on!

If you joined to have the Name and not the expense, all I can tell you is drop out of the Organization as you are not a good member!

You are in for the Pound, not the ounce!

Am I harsh, you damn betcha !

Get with it our get out! Dont be a hanger on who is in the 80% who dont do anything as you do disservise to youself and your Org.!

Why can I say this:

I am on the House Corp. the Mentoring Corp., The Building Commitee, the Alum Group and the Founder of the Local in 1965!

I founded or started each and everyone except the House Corp!

I am still active as you can see! I will be active till the day that I die!:cool: