closing down frats
 

in my area, Bowdoin college is setting a 2000 deadline for the abolition of all the campus frat houses. This is mostly due to a student death a few years back, involving hazing and alcohol (the student fell from a frat house roof). Does anyone think that the college has responded too harshly with the abolition policy?


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-ng-

Not in comparison with it's counterparts in higher education. This country is on a major anti-collegedrinking kick, being run by the hypocritical over anal children of the sixties/seventies. They are against college drinking, and anti frat is in the same spirit as Zero tolerance. Punish kids harsher than we were for doing the same things. Unfortunately, frat spelled sideways is read as beer, or at least thats the reputation

I agree that the schools usually go too far. At my school, Stockton State (NJ), the admin. has been systematically and methodically doing everything in their power to wipe all GLO from the campus. Sadly, they are suceeding. When the admin. is very anti-greek, there is very little you can do. Ironically, they still come to us to do service projects when work needs to be done. All we can do is put our best foot forward, and strive to accomplish all the ideals that we were founded on.

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"Listen to my music, and hear what it can do.
There's something here that's as strong as life.
I KNOW THAT IT WILL REACH YOU!!!"
~Rush2112~

Hazing will continue. Forums and intake programs are not a remedy for a demonic activity. There will be more deaths by hazing. I say abolish the whole fraternal system to save lives.

Omigosh - I just broke a fingernail. Guess I'll have to chop off my entire hand.



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Fraternally,
Barbara

If you have to go around telling everyone you're in charge you're not
much of a leader.

Fred,

You sugguested in order to remove the "demonic" threat of hazing you must eradicate the fraternity system. Do you realize that Hazing within the fraternity system consitutes only a fraction of the hazing that occurs across the United States? If we abolish the fraternal system because of hazing, then we need to abolish the other insitutions that have participate in hazing as well. Please help me to wave a good-bye send off to Athletics, to marching bands, to prep-schools, to our military... should i continue?

Most national greek organizations recognize that in order to survive, they must work together to elimiate the threat of hazing.

If we are to remove the threat of hazing, we must first begin educating students, friends, family about hazing. We must give them the strength, and self-confidence to stand up for their brothers and sisters, their team memebers, and more importantly themselves when hazing surfaces its ugly head.

I'm reminded of a line from "A few good men" (a story about Military Hazing). After being charged with "actions unbecoming of an marine" The younger soldier asked "we were only following orders what did we do wrong" The other marine responded (paraphrased) "We were suppost to stand up and protect and defend the weak, and we did not do that."

Artimis


[This message has been edited by Artimis (edited October 04, 1999).]

Hazing to a certain extent promotes the development of character and is a form of bonding. Being an alumnus of a national fraternity and formerly in the military, I believe that there is both positive and negative hazing. There are certain types of hazing, such as in the military, that promotes unity and team work. Hazing in the form of drinking or public humiliation is just plain stupid and is what the public primarily hears about.

The solution is not about abolishing fraternal organizations, but education...alcohol awareness.

All this being said, President linton recently signed a bill that withdraws all federal funding from schools that prohibit students their right to association. for more info see greekpages.com.

CFB
Chi Phi Fraternity
Psi Zeta Chapter

If you've never pledged than why would you pledge others? The reason for pledging can not be explained with mere verbage. It is something (a matrix if you will) that has to be experienced. A person who has never pledged will never understand why others subject themselves to such events. Pledging induces a feeling of belonging and promotes a bond that cannot be created by any other means. Hazing and pledging in general have been outlawed. However it continues regardless of the stipulations that beauracratic, money collecting, intake process creating, political old heads have placed on undergrads. It will always continue, will never stop, as long as there is a member of any GLO that has been pledged/hazed. It's an unbreakable chain that will produce multiple bastard renegade thugs!

Sorry I had to register to address the ignorant statement of the flake who called Greek Organizations Demonic!

First let me start of be having him reflect on all of the horrible things that have been done by the church over the last 2000 years to their followers, such as burning at the stake and so forth. I could write a book on that. What is your reply to that? Ok it would probably be something to the effect of "That wasnt my CHURCH" You may also refer me to another book I could buy describing the evils of the churches who committed these acts. I doubt very seriously that book would contain the positives of the church you are disparaging. Well guess what idiot! you cant lump all greek organizations and chapters into one group and make an effective judgement because you have not been involved with all of these organizations.

In your book do you describe the positives of chapters who denounce hazing and strive for brotherhood or sisterhood. The strong friendships, mentoring and personal growth. The management skills that are learned by actives that prepare them for the real world. Probably not. I think you need to do some sole searching and realize how ignorant your comments are.

Most fraternities do NOT haze but the ones that do get a lot of attention. You cant take isolated actions and draw conclusions on a system you know nothing about. Grab the reins dude!

No way!! Too many people have been killed in stupid frat/soro related incidents. I think that they took the right action in closing the chapter- if they are going act ridiculous, actions need to be taken.

So I am sitting here wondering why all these posts that Mr. Fred was involved in seem to be rising from the greekchat cemetary, and by Virtuoisity at that! Fred if your bluff wasn't called before, this is the proof we were looking for. Go peddle your finatical, hootin and hollerin kissing snakes wares elsewhere. Not to be rude, but does your "church" happen to be in a strip mall, by any chance?

Go AWAY.

"So I am sitting here wondering why all these posts that Mr. Fred was involved in seem to be rising from the greekchat cemetary, and by Virtuoisity at that! Fred if your bluff wasn't called before, this is the proof we were looking for. Go peddle your finatical, hootin and hollerin kissing snakes wares elsewhere. Not to be rude, but does your "church" happen to be in a strip mall, by any chance?
Go AWAY. "


Funny Lifesaver,I was thinking the VERY SAME thing!

X girl

Hazing to some degree has gotten a bad rap because of some MORONS in different Houses. To some degree some so called hazing is good. In my chapter LXA, we had the pledges paint a large tractor tire white and role around to the soroity house to get signature. The pledge clases (each class) made a large paddle and placed their names on it for rememberece and they look awesome as each was different. Some so called hazing is to be used to instill a brother/sister hood in their group. As far as HAZING by downing drinks or beating or any other physical abuse that is totally wrong and those people shoud be banned! Every time there is a death in the Greek Community, the spost light of evil falls on us. Stop and think, who does the most at homecoming, is on commitees on campus and volanter their time than the Greeks on campus? Good deeds do not make news. Tragic events do and that is what is wrong today. Good news is no news!!! Each GLO/BGLO have a charity that they work with and bust ass to work on but that is on page 0 and in minute print. Colleges should look at the good done by the Greeks not the negative.


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Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

The School should take severe action if the fraternity's Headquarters doesn't handle the situation - someone died! I think closing the chapter is an excellent idea. But the aftermath of the incident should have the school crack down on responsible drinking, hazing, etc. and can blame the incident for the reason for the crackdown. Once all is settled in a few years, then relax on the monitoring. I think the elimination of all the fraternities on the campus is too extreme and doesn't solve the bigger problem, it just tries to avoid it.

Schools need GLO's because without them there would be no school activities and apathy would run amok on campus. Also mentioned before, the Fraternities are one of the few organizations that can get community activities to work. But then again, what does the administration care? If they get their tuition money and teach the kids in class, why should they care if the students are having fun outside school life and learning community and leadership skills?

Playin' the devil's advocate.

Steve

While I don't totally disagree with some of the things above, as a TV professional who worked in TV newsrooms (not as a journalist)for many years, I must point out the following:

You can only go so far in blaming the media.

Naturally, when there is a death or accident or some other outrageous behavior, it will be covered.

But, the media is looking for good news, too.

Think about this. When you do your philanthropy, does anyone bother telling the school newspaper or local radio or TV station about it? Or do you expect it to be noticed by magic?

You know, news organizations all call the police and fire agencies all the time. That's how they find out what's going on. That's only a few phone calls.

It is simply not possible to call everyone to find "good" news. That would take a staff of hundreds -- or thousands. Ain't gonna happen. Impossible.

I recommend that every chapter have a media contact and that they be proactive in finding a contact within EACH local media outlet. Then He/She should be in touch with that contact every few weeks. This will help in two ways: First, when the chapter does something good, you have someone to tell who knows you and is more likely to listen. Second, if something bad happens, you at least have some good will established with the media outlet.

It is also important to understand what to do if a tragedy (death, fire, whatever) happens. Only the chapter advisor or a national official should talk with the media. If neither can be found, then only the president should speak. A member should ALWAYS refer questions upward. The chapter media contact should be consulted as to who to talk to, but not necessarily be the spokesperson.

Under deadling pressure, it can sometimes be impossible to find the right person to ask questions of. The university administration or police agencies have spokespersons who are easy to reach. You should, too. Otherwise, it's a game of chance that the reporter will ever find the right person, no matter how hard he/she tries. If someone from you chapter has been in contact with the outlet, it is much more likely that your side of the story will be told.

It's way to easy to hide behind bad media relations, if you don't do something to try to establish good ones.

Fraternally,
DeltAlum

To correct a typo ---

[This message has been edited by DeltAlum (edited December 29, 2000).]

Also a lot of the private colleges like Dartmouth to is trying to do away with Greeks which is bad for Psi U cause thats where alot of our chapters r from.

A wee bit off the subject, but has anyone read the book "The Pledge" by Rob Kean? The author notes say that he attended Bowdoin College...and the event that this "fiction" book is based upon sounds an awful lot like the situation described by ngoucher. Just thought someone might be interested!

BTW...the book is FANTASTIC!

And I'm sorry if this book is something that has been discussed to death in another thread. =)

I have repeatedly said if some Morons do inane things then get them off campus and then come back and reopen the Organizations!
With out the Greeks, what is Homecoming, who serves on committees, who has the best overall grade average, who does more for Charitys?
Well if you answer these questions Independents, then you are out of your mind!
All houses when I was in College, eons ago, not only built Floats but did House Decorations! This cost a lot of money to put on a show for the Alumi who came back!Not only for the Greeks but for all of the People who are there because there high school band or horse riding group is there! Not just from my House but from all Houses to see what was being done!
Ask Your Alumni Assoc. Who DONATES THE MOST MONEY BACK TO CAMPUS!!!!
I for one will Never donate to the School, I donate to My Fraternity and if they were not there, I would never go back! I paid my dues and fees to good ole PSU!

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Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

Well said!

Shortly after I pledged my house, the Phi Kappa Tau chapter at my University took two pledges to the hospital on pledge mom night. The article is here:
http://www.dailyillini.com/oct_99/oct15/index.html

The student paper ran this editorial the next day:
http://www.dailyillini.com/oct_99/oct16/index.html

The opinions section is not on-line, but I wrote a letter to the paper that was published the following day. Keep in mind, I was still a pledge at this time, but I was ready to defend the system. My letter went something like this, but it was much more articulate at the time.

Sure, these kids were at a fraternity event, but they entered a bar underage, used fake ID's to enter, and drank underage. As far as I know, they broke three laws set down by the state of Illinois and the city of Champaign.

Pledge mom night is a time when women from many sororities on campus would be present. I am sure the responsible members of Phi Kappa Tau would not engage in any behavior that could damage their reputations. It is tradition on many pledge mom nights for the mom to get the kid as drunk as possible. None of the women involved, however, were punished for providing alcohol to minors.

This was great news for me when Phi Kappa Tau got suspended and the individuals faced no charges. Until this time, I had been unaware that pledging a house relieved me of all personal responsibility for my actions. Shortly after reading the article and the editorial, I made plans to run out and rob a liquor store. I even asked a few of my new sisters to join me.

Ah yes, another wonderful facet of today's Fraternity Life. I won't lie to you - this isn't actually how it works . . . it's worse. Pledging a house does NOT, in fact, remove personal responsibility - but it DOES, in fact, add organizational responsibility.

In short - now that I'm in the Kappa Sigma Fraternity, International, not only am I responsible for my own actions, I'm also (partly, although somewhat directly) responsible for the actions of my fellow brothers and pledges - this responsibility extends to the entire organization, on a national level.

If a pledge dies at an official chapter function, regardless of whether alcohol was involved or not, there will be a serious inquiry into wrongdoing on the part of the chapter. If there is alcohol involved, then God help us as well as his family, because the chapter is gone, and there's an off chance the national organization is gone - forever. This is the level of seriousness that risk management has taken on in today's world - lawsuits that can overrun insurance coverage, and payments that active brothers can't afford . . . and it can happen in a heartbeat.

This is why the risk management position is often considered a Vice-President in most houses. For fraternities, precendent is extremely clear: you will be held responsible for the actions of your own, actives or pledges or even alumni, at official or even unofficial events. It sucks - but it is definitely something that is in the back of the minds of every chapter president.