Posting restrictions coming to a GLO near you?
 

Particularly for you social greeks, do think this can become a trend?

http://greekchat.com/gcforums/showth...threadid=26140

the minute someone tries limiting my free speech, and my ability to say what i think, is the minute i say "uh uh - no way not gonna happen..."

i'd post without my affiliation attached, but i wouldn't just stop posting b/c someone said so.

If that's true, then it's a real shame. Let me explain why...

My college didn't have the greatest Greek life. My impression of NPC and IFC was, shall we say, less than favorable. It disappointed me, because I wanted to join in NPC rush, but then saw it wasn't for me. The Greeks on my campus, unfortunately, lived up to a lot of stereotypes.

Greek Chat helped change my perceptions.

I've found Kappas who are intelligent, DGs who are considerate, TKEs who are well-read, AKAs who are insightful, and on and on and on (insert your GLO into any of the above - there's been at least one person from nearly all the NPC/IFC/NPHC GLOs who has impressed me). In short, the great people on GC are wonderful ambassadors for their organizations. This board is unlike any other (anyone remember Greeksource.com? No intelligent discussion there) in its comraderie and support. Silence the Kappas, and that begins to crumble. We need to hear ALL the voices speak!

It would really be a slap in the face. It would be like HQ telling their undergrads that they did not trust us to represent our letters and our values. Fortunately, in Sigma Nu the rules-making body is the bi-annual assembly of undergrads.

So I don't think that'd happen:D

I wonder if they had a Kappa moderate the discussion, if they'd allow it again? I understand that it's really hard to police the sisters and if they say something that's making the sorority look bad, than that can cause problems, but it seems to me that a simple solution is to just have someone checking the boards to make sure none of that is going on.

Keep GC!
 

I think there should be a way for GC to present themselves as a great "front door" to PNMs and a means of promoting Greek life. This is a wonderful group of people and a valuable display of the conscientiousness and brootherhood that Greek life is supposed to be about! In this day when many Greeks are having a hard time bringing in new members, the *last* thing anyone should do is cut off avenues of communication. Heck, GC is the reason I'm trying for alumna initiation in the first place!

I hope the nationals think long and hard about whether they can afford to cut off good PR. This isn't exactly MTV here.....

Adrienne
:)

Another reason for a good place for Greeks to show their worth
 

My old Alma Mater Fishwrapper, the BU Daily Free Press evidently printed a cartoon taking a potshot at the Gamma Phi Beta chapter.
I haven't seen it, but the responses from the ladies that were printed were very classy.

The same people who print this paper are the ones who print editorials calling for dialogue and tolerance with all people in order to understand our differences. Except for Greeks, of course. ;)

If any national prohibits their members from discussing the benefits of Greek life, they won't be able to stem the tide of derogatory comments from those who just don't "get it."

Here's one of the replies (the better of the two, IMHO)

http://www.dailyfreepress.com/news/321247.html

Adrienne
:)

I think I know where this may come from....
 

I believe inter/national sororities have no intention of limiting people's free speech or the right to say what they want-- but I also know that there are times when members on this board (with names that clearly indicate what group they are a member of) will post things which are contrary to inter/national organization policy. *This seems particularly true when talking about hazing and risk management* This is an open board that anyone can read (including press, PNMs, parents etc.) and so perceptions can be changed both for the positive and negative.

If, as Greeks, we could monitor ourselves and actively work to protect the image of Greek organizations everywhere (and for me, that means only posting positive messages that are reflective of my international organization's policies--regardless of whether I agree with them) then the actions allegedly taken by Kappa Kappa Gamma might not be necessary. I know these public boards were going to be under discussion at the NPC biennial meeting and suspect this may have come from those discussions.

*lifesaver stands to applaud RRSAI*
Well said!

We do need to hear all the voices speak.

BTW- Another Greek Source Refugee, lol.

Excellent points listed all around...what nat'l hq's don't understand is that the majority of information exchanged are solutions; to problems from an individual that couldn't find the answer on their campus, to lessons learned from reading another's mistake, or simply educating oneself on the culture of another greek-lettered-organization. All of these contribute to a stronger individual understanding of the system. And until each individual GLO can offer a service capable of providing this forum of ideas, they should retract their stance on this issue.

kkghq@kappa.org
 

KKG Natl.:

kkghq@kappa.org

I have a feeling that Kappa's decision to stop members from posting may not necessarily have to do with opinions posted on Greek Chat, but perhaps message boards that *ahem* divulge secrets of various GLOs. It may be a blanket policy to avoid members posting on such questionable message boards.

Excellent point re: boards and websites that spill secrets. I accidentally ran across one and was *really* appalled that something so private would be posted like so much laundry.

However: it only takes about 30 minutes of perusing this site to realize that's not the case here. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea for KKG nationals to just "lurk" for a while and see how things go.

I just hate the thought of seeing a gag order clamp down on some really good exchanges that could help everyone, collegiates, alumni, and PNMs.

Adrienne
:)

This is all second-hand, since I'm in no way a Kappa. I just know a bunch. Nothing gives me any special entitlement to comment on this. But KappaKittyCat is a good friend of mine, so I've got a few opinions.

From what I heard, it was a traveling consultant ('TC') who informed KKC of their headquarters' intent to restrict members from posting. Apparently they've been following GC, because the TC was able to figure out who KKC was. "Hey, do you post on GreekChat? Are you KappaKittyCat?"

I'm told by others that there were already rules in place that prohibited members of Kappa from speaking publicly on GLO matters while identifying themselves as Kappas. This is an extension of that kind of rule into the internet sphere.

There are reasons to have that kind of rule in some environments -- for example, in a lot of cases legal obligations can arise when a member (especially an executive officer) purports to speak for the chapter. Other times, they simply might want to make sure chapters speak with a unified voice for PR purposes, and one way to do that is by limiting who can speak publicly about Kappa. People, especially non-Greeks, will often assume that officers speak for their entire chapters. And, of course, there's always the goal of preventing embarassment, because, let's be honest -- we all do and say silly things sometimes. One person said to me, "Think of it this way. I can probably be quoted in the school newspaper as saying something about Greek life as 'L---,' but I can't be quoted in the paper saying that as 'L---, a Kappa.'"

Heck, maybe it was even against the rule for her to tell me that. How sad that would be.

Heather17 above pointed out an example of the sort of thing GLO headquarters would frown on: members who publicly dispute national risk management and hazing prevention rules. I don't think I've seen it from any of the Kappas -- the Kappas I've talked to have been fierce about risk management and hazing prevention. However, I've seen comments favoring more, ahem, "old fashioned" ideas of Greek life from members of my own fraternity, and I have to say it's bothered me.

I don't think that many fewer Kappas are going to post here. I just think that some active members are going to be anonymous about their affiliation and maybe avoid their GLO-specific board. I still think that's sad.

In law, we often say that the solution to 'bad' speech isn't to restrict speech, but to encourage more speech to counteract it. However, GLOs are very sensitive because they know that every event that supports a negative stereotype gets valued ten or twenty times more than events that counteract negative stereotypes. Besides, we're not working with law here -- GLOs are legally free to restrict the speech of their members. That doesn't mean that it's good policy.

I think that the existence of GreekChat, a community that is generally positive and supportive, that celebrates Greek life, and that is strongly panhellenic/interfraternal, demands careful rethinking of how far restrictions on member speech should go. I think that if they're going to restrict member speech, they're going to need guidelines that capture the complexity of this sort of thing and that let their members (and ultimately the entire organization) draw upon the benefits of this kind of forum. Yes, there may be some risks involved; right now, though, it sounds like they're cutting themselves off entirely from what can be a very good thing.

Well, if KKG doesn't want its members posting on www.theboardthatdarenotspeakitsname.com, then just, well, speak its name and say don't post there. Plus, I could post on "that board" as Bill Gates and no one would stop me. It's kind of like saying don't go to any restaurant to avoid the ones with roaches in the kitchen.

I agree with CC1GC. I think we all help each other on here in ways we might not be able to if all we heard from or interacted with was our own GLO.

What a shame
 

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

They fear that a small amount of negative talk might occur, so they react by obliterating conversation altogether?

The Kappas on this board have done so much to break down stereotypes. My impression of the organization has only improved with every Kappa post I've read. I just can't see how this is going to benefit the organization in the long run. :(

Ivy

from the horse's mouth
 

Ok, I'm going to post this because one of my advisors gave me permission to write a little "farewell note" and an explanation. I'm sorry that I haven't responded to PMs. I've just cleared all cookies from my computer and logged off of GC completely so that if I should happen to have the urge to post while I'm reading the boards, the logon screen will come up and this will remind me that I'm not allowed to. This is the first time I've logged on since I changed my signature on the eighth and I'm only now seeing all the PMs. I must reiterate: if you want to contact me, you need to email me because I'm not checking my PMs.

Here's the deal. This is a brand-new issue. We had a Traveling Consultant from Headquarters visiting our chapter last week and she told us that the Fraternity Council has just learned of GreekChat and other such forums. A Regional Director of Chapters was surfing and discovered it. Fraternity Council's objection to GC is that it's not sponsored, monitored, or regulated by Kappa Kappa Gamma. Anybody pretending to be a Kappa could post.

They're not worried about "ritual revealing," but about other negative publicity. They're also concerned that this forum for exchanging ideas could propagate "bad" ideas, i.e. traditions that include or could potentially lead to hazing. They feel that such an exchange of ideas should only go through the Fraternity Council, advisors, Field Representatives, etc. Kappa is very big on risk management. They're concerned about how Kappas are representing themselves and the fraternity online.

Kappa's constitution, bylaws, standing rules, and policies include a clause that only the president of a chapter can make public statements about the fraternity, and then only with the permission of the Fraternity Council. So our TC told us that this has just come down from Fraternity Council, and that I was to pass it along to all the Kappas on GC. Presidents of chapters should be getting emails about it in the next week or so.

Ok, that was my telling y'all what Fraternity Council says. Here's my own opinion, something that in no way reflects the position of my national organization, and a call for help.

I'm really upset about this. GC is a community for me. It's an extented family. I've made some great pals here, helped some people out (I hope) and gotten a lot of help and moral support for myself and my chapter. I've gotten to know sisters through GC, not to mention members of other sororities. Everything I know about Panhellenic I've lerned on here. Before I discovered GC, I couldn't even name any sororities that weren't on our campus. Now I can name all 26 NPC and I'm working on the Divine Nine now. Before, I didn't even know that NPHC existed. I've learned so much. They're cutting that off, and I'm sad.

I'm hoping that this moratorium is a temporary thing that will lift once Kappa has set up someone to monitor these boards, or once it has set up guidelines for posting, or something like that. So, my fellow GCers, I need you. All GC Kappas need you. Here's what you can do. I seem to recall KDonline posting something about KD's having guidelines for how KDs are supposed to represent themselves and the organization on public forums like this. I know that OohTeenyWahine mentioned something about Alpha Gam's monitoring such boards.

If your organization has such policies, please encourage your webmaster (or whoever) to contact Kappa and let them know what you do and how it works. They need to come up with something like this, and soon. The Internet is here to stay and there's nothing we can do about it. It appears that Kappa only sees the potentially bad things that can happen on a site like this, not the good things. So it's up to us to tell them about the good things that happen on GC. This is also a call for everybody on here to think carefully before you post about the way you are representing your organization. As we Greeks know all too well, a few bad apples can spoil a good time for everybody. If there were ever a time to behave online, it is now.

Eupolis makes some good points. He knows of what he speaks. This can be a sticky issue. I am and shall always be a faithful member of Kappa Kappa Gamma, and I will abide by her policies, even if I don't understand why they're in place. No more posting from KappaKittyCat until I'm told otherwise.

I'm sorry if this is a little soapbox-esque, but I'm upset and also in a hurry at the moment. Just so you know, I'm still here. All my contact info is still in my profile, so please get in touch with me if you want to talk about this more. I miss you all already.

Yours in the Bonds of GreekChat,
KappaKittyCat

I agree with everything posted here. Although this policy obviously isn't illegal, I think it's extremely ill-advised and will just lead to worse public opinion of GLOs in the long run. By the time we're in college we're all more or less adults and should be trusted to represent our organizations well.

If my organization tried to pull something like this, I would think very seriously about disaffiliating -- the sorority is just not THAT important.

what if Kappa members were to continue posting, just making sure KKG isn't in their sig and they're screen name's don't contain kappa? and if they don't reveal their affiliation? I don't see why that wouldn't be allowed.

I just don't see how a national office can forbid someone from posting on a message board. We do, after all, have the right to freedom of speech. I suppose I can see where they might not want you to use your GLO name in your username but even then--we earned those letters and as long as we don't post something nasty, no one should be able to restrict our posting.

I'd think the fraternities, one in particular, would have a lot more to worry about than the sororities as far as damaged reputations. Mainly all the sororities try to do here is help PNMs and each other.

I agree with the above statements. And I'm just new here.

This is not something people want to hear during their I-weeks!!! I'm sorry, but I'm questioning my pledge to Kappa now. I really love the sorority, the ideals, but if they are going to inhibit my free speech, then I don't know if I want to be a part of that.

What I'm going to do is continue posting until I hear it from my chapter prez. Then I will file a formal complaint, make a new sn with my affilation unknown, and continue posting anyways. I won't mention Kappa, and I won't mention where I'm from (since we're the only sorority on campus!). Then, I'll decide what action to take once my complaint is dealt with.

Wow.....her post made me really sad. I'm going to miss her and all of the other Kappa GCers :(

The "Pearls of Wisdom" and "A Torch to Guide You" in, respectively, the AKA and DST forums are excellent guides as to what are and are not appropriate subjects for posts in those forums and in GC as a whole. They also make it clear that anyone who is misrepresenting the organization or perping will be dealt with quickly. I would hope Kappa HQ could accept something similar as an assurance that their name will not get dragged through the mud.

I could probably go on for pages about this issue but I won't. I have read posts from and about KKG's on GreekSource, Kappa Konnections, and GC (not to mention Kappa alums I've met on other message boards who are among the most-respected people in those online communities). NOTHING I've read has made me think of Kappas as anything but classy, positive, intelligent women who love their sorority with everything they have. They've added to and enriched my Greek experience, and to think I and other people will be denied their insight and positivity angers and saddens me.

Kappa really needs to consider this carefully.

The internet is here to stay. Peeps will post, without screennames. It cann all go underground, or stay above board.

Digging your heels in as an org or business never works. Look at the record industry. They have pretty much demanded and sued their way into irrevelance.

Lets work together as a community to find a solution for this.

So dissapointed in a bad decision made by an otherwise great and respected group of ladies.

I'm going to miss all of the KKG sisters who've been posting here, especially KappaKittyCat. I hope that Kappa puts whatever she needs into place so that sisters can again post in a public forum such as GreekChat. I hope that they don't have to drop all references to Kappa when they can come back. I like knowing what sorority and fraternity everyone is in. Due to many of the members here on GC, I've been able to get past my own prejudices about some GLOs to realize that we're really a lot more like than different. Having said that, this could be something that we all could have to deal with in the future. As long as we all conduct ourselves as we promised upon our pledging and initiation, we're all going to be just fine.

kappaloo -- Please, Please, PLEASE do not make any rash decisions. I know nothing of the inner workings of Kappa, but I'll trust that this current situation will be worked out. I'm sure that they're not looking to inhibit anyone's free speech but to protect those things that Kappa Kappa Gamma holds dear. Ask your big sister, your New Member educator, your sisters about this and get all of the correct information about the situation.

Hurry back, Kappa girls!
Fraternally,
Christin

I just don't understand how an organization can think so highly of you that they want you to be a member and trust you with their ritual and call you a sister, yet they don't trust you enough to know good from bad. :rolleyes: We're all adults and don't need people telling us what to read, what to write, what to do. I thought this was a free country??

Lindsay

The U.S. Constitution does not protect your right to free speech. The only thing that the Constitution does is protect you from the government taking away your free speech -- however, other organizations, like GLOs which are completely voluntary to join, can abridge your free speech as much as they want because they're not a part of the American government.

Re: Keep GC!
 

GC is practically THE reason I'm even considering pledging in the future! Everyone here has been so helpful, and has completely changed what I thought Greek Life was all about. Props to all of you! Don't let your organization stop you from helping/talking. You all have respect for who you are, and honor for your letters and what your organization stands for. Even I know you would never consider divulging anything that wasn't proper. An organization should trust its members, just as they trust in it. In this matter, at least, it seems like reciprocation of that trust and honor is necessary.

I do not believe this is a constitutional law issue. In an individual rights claim under the US Constitution the first element is always State Action. In other words, the Bill of Rights protects people from government. The government is not taking action in this situation, Kappa is and Kappa is a private membership organization.

If this were a government run board and the government said that someone couldn't post here b/c they were a Kappa then the Kappas would have a 1st Amendment claim (among others).

Trying to think constructively
 

and

I'm sure tha KappaKittyCat and other Kappas will be letting their voices be heard by Kappa's Fraternity Council on this matter.

And I wonder -- might it help if some GC moderators wrote to Kappa's Fraternity Council about (1) the value to all GLOs and all Greeks of GC, (2) the value -- to GC and to Kappa -- of Kappa participation on GC, (3) the standards expected of those who post on GC, (4) the standards some other GLO's have promulgated to guide their members about posting on GC, and (5) offering to help Kappa in developing appropriate guidelines?

Just a thought.

Sugar and Spice, you nailed it on the head.
Private organizations can set their own rules--groups like the Boy Scouts, etc have had to fight for their rules based on that distinction.

As much as I disagree w/ the decision the GLO made, I understand that they are concerned about the negative potential of open bulletin boards, just as those here are concerned about losing the positive impact.

I hope no one does anything rash about their affiliation. GLOs are supposed to be families. Families can talk to each other (I hope!) and come to some kind of understanding about how to use the new technology available today that wasn't dreamed of when Ida Shaw Martin was doing the advising. ;)

Adrienne
:)

"The right to free speech" really has no place in this argument. When you choose to maintain membership in a private organization, you give up certain rights in favor of the rules of that organization. The only right you have is the right to choose between following the rules or canceling your membership. So let's not get hung up on entitlement. Having said that...

The very existence of such a "moratorium" is much more damaging to Kappa Kappa Gamma's image than anything that one rogue sister could potentially post on an internet message board. I was really infuriated to read about this.

This is more evidence of a disturbing long term trend of established fraternities and sororities moving away from brotherhoods and sisterhoods, and toward bureaucratic risk management corporations. Policy and government of the organization, while moderated and influenced by older and wiser alums, should be firmly in the hands of the undergraduates, who are the lifeblood of the organization. Kappas, take control of your sisterhood!

wptw

EXACTLY what I was thinking...

i'm not saying it should be for everyone, butfor me, it has everything to do with this argument. i for one would not want to be part of a group that restricts my speech, legally or not.
it's a basic tenent of my being - the right for my speech not to be restricted by my government. there's no way i would voluntarily join something that felt the need to do that.

Bureaucratic risk management corporations...I totally hear you there.:( :( It's so sad to say that, but it seems like that's what the national councils of fraternities and sororites are turning into!

wptw,

you talk durn good. :)

IowaHawkeye, I agree with you - let me clarify...

Free speech is this case is not a right, but a choice. You choose free speech, possibly at the expense of your membership. My point was that speaking about free speech as a right that KKG HQ had somehow trampled upon is pointless in this particular argument.

wptw

Edit: Why shucks, 33girlie. Thankee kindly. (An' I'm purty too!)

Wow, I haven't been on GC all day, and i'm flabbergasted at this.

Sororities have long since had the reputations of being "controlling" and that everyone's the same, yada yada yada. This "decision" is controlling of the acts of it's members. I think most orgs have some sort of a rule about giving statements to the media and such on behalf of your org. No one has "posed" as some sort of national officer of KKG, etc. and caused any trouble. Once you intiate a person, they'll always be a KKG (unless resigned). How can you control everything that person wants to do and/or say in their life? Can these women never openly admit that they're a KKG while opening their mouths? If they're in class, wearing letters, and say a wrong answer or something stupid- does that represent all of KKG? Where does it end? It's a slippery slope!

I know i'm not expressing myself well. I just don't have words to describe how I feel about this.

If KD made this sort of decision, I would raise hell. I'd openly defy it. It's one thing to say that you shouldn't drink in your letters, etc. But to tell me where I can and cannot post on the internet? Sorry, don't think so. If they wanted to put me on probation, etc. - it would be worth it to fight for the freedoms of my sisters.

In this day and age, there's a lot worse things that sorority headquarters should be worrying about.

Would our founders think of something like this? I don't think any sorority founder ever envisioned an org who would limit a woman's freedom such as this. Most of our founders had in mind a place where women could be free to express themselves. A place for women to be strong and have a voice.

EXACTLY!!!!