Who pledges the Hardest?
 

who pledges the hardest? personally I feel that members of IFC organizations, and anything else besides NPHC(Except for Iota Phi Theta because they don't pledge) don't pledge very hard at all. I wouldn't even call what they do pledging, I would call it "applying for membership" or something to that effect. I am a member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity Inc, which a historically black fraternity, and I went through quite a lot to become a member. I've seen many other processes and Im doubting there validity. Tell me your thoughts.

babyface-

You asked, so here are my thoughts:

This has been a pretty hot topic in the past, as you may know. In fact, I'm guessing that's part of why you posted it; to prove you're not paper + get some folks riled up. Pledging "hard" must be pretty important to you + your chapter for you to come and boldly announce it, along with your fraternity's name (it's a well respected GLO, and i'm sure that nationals and others don't appreciate that, by the way).

I went through pledging; I'm sure by your standards this wasn't pledging + I'm paper. 1st, I'm an alumnae of a coed arts fraternity. 2cnd, we didn't take wood, weren't kept up until/woken up at all hours of the night w/ class the next day, and didn't even get beaten once! (I can only assume that this is the type of thing you are referring to).

I can tell you I know my fraternity's history, creed, principles, etc. backwards + forwards. I work, even today, to further its ideals. I'm close with my pledgeclass (we don't have 'lines') and the people who were actives before + after me. Not only that, I've gotten to know some alumnae quite well.

My senior year with my chapter I served as VP + 'New Member Educator' (formerly 'Pledge Trainer'). My pledges knew their sh*t as good, if not better, than me. They went through pledging alright--> the important part where you form bonds with your pledge class + the actives, where you learn about fraternity history, where you gain a passion that continues to grow even after you leaave school.

So, maybe pledging isn't what it used to be, or at least not in all organizations. I think we pledged "harder" than some others, though: anyone can take a beating (or they can't, and they end up dead or in the hospital). It takes a different kind of dedication to go through the stuff I, and the pledges I brought in, did.

I'm sure you, and many, many others will disagree. And I have heard many of these arguments before. Most of them I can at least understand the rationale behind, whether I agree with them or not.

Hey, I just read this (brief) article tonight. If nothing else, it should be of interest to Greeks, but especially members of BGLO's.

check it out here:Hazing in Black Fraternities

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Phi Beta Fraternity

[This message has been edited by SilverTurtle (edited April 03, 2000).]

WELL SAID!

I agree 100%! It does take a different kind of dedication to learn the ideals/history/government/pride of a orginization. Most people want to walk in and get their badge, they don't realize that they have to earn it by studying and learning about the organizations. They don't realize that there are standards. Anybody can be made to chug a beer or take a whipping, but not anybody will take the time and effort it takes to learn the past/preasent/and future of an organization. They won't take the time to find ways to further their organization's ideals and efforts. Not anybody can balance school and greek life. We can all go to parties and get drunk, but that is NOT what it means to be a member of a greek organization. That is REAL pledging. There is no HARD pledging, there is only REAL pledging.

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"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

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I am one of the colonizing members of my chapter, and was also the first, and second pledge educator. we have always just stuck to the way the nationals pledged us, which was pretty text book, and we take pride in the fact that we are probably the only chapter on campus that doesn't haze and every one knows that. but each year the pledges try to plan events for the sisters so that we can have "fun", we actually got in trouble because the pledges set up a scavenger hunt for the sisters. my point is the girls set these things up year after year, and really want to do certain things that are considered hazing. last friday six girls showed up at a party all dressed the same, they had just been initiated that morning and they thought it was funny, meanwhile I was worried that we were going to get in trouble for it. now I am worried that maybe the other houses that do haze have closer pledge classes because they have worked through these situations together. Does anyone have any advice for me?

whats up cousin? I am a brother of sigma lambd beta and I agree with you all the way... I am tired of hearing about hazing, because if you want to go through a process, you make the decision for yourself. I won't reveal anything about our process, but I was able to "find the light", know what I'm saying, and I will always remember and value my days pledging.

"nothing worth having should come easy"

I believe we're all missing the point - it is not the activities/methods themselves that can truly be described as "hazing" - remember, in it's most essential form, hazing is a form of giving power at the expense of others - I keep hearing about this "scavenger hunt" being hazing - I wish someone would provide more information - I seriously doubt a membership scavenger hunt in of itself is hazing - there has to be something more to it, the way in which it was carried out, or the "items" that had to be scavenged...
I'm also curious as to the posts of members who will not actively talk about their experiences...why is that? What is so secret about hazing? Did you take an oath in your initiation to protect the hazing secrets? Really? Is this what your fraternity's founders really have in mind when they started your organization? If you can't tie hazing practices to the ideals of your organization, then why are they so important? How do they contribute to the overall goal of your organization? Educate me...


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Don't be your brother's keeper; rather, be your brother's Brother.

First, scavanger hunts. We all know what a basic scavanger hunt is. What probably happened is. . .A long time ago a chapter of a sorority somewhere in the US decided to have a scavanger hunt for their (then) pledges. Well, a sister (most likely) made the girls go.. . like they didn't have a choice. One probably had a test the next day and the sisters said that it was something they had to do. Then they probably made them go all over the place and get the items in the scavanger hunt. Maybe some of the items were vulgar or they had to chug a beer at each destination. . .who knows. Well, one of the pledges reported it and today its history. Now no sorority is allowed to do scavanger hunts, at all, because it's considered hazing, no matter how harmless or fun they might be. We also can't call people pledges, we have to call them "new members." We can't hold the names of big sisters, all "new members" have to know who their big sister is when they start their "new membership." We can't have them wear "pledge" pins or ribbons because that is considered hazing. These are all little things that someone has blown out of proportion. Someone probably got in trouble for not wearing their ribbons, and they didn't like it, so they reported that the sisters were hazing them.

Second, I was never hazed. I was never made to do anything I didn't want to do. We had sisterhood activities. That consisted of a lot of different things. Movies, dinners, bonfires, etc. etc. HOWEVER, I'm not going to tell you everything we did. A lot of activities were traditions that had been passed down for ages (and not just rituals). These have been private for almost a century. But I will tell you that there was never hazing involved in any of these things. I'm sure that you won't tell me every little thing that happened in you fraternity. We have LXA's on my old campus, and I know that they would never tell me everything the do. . .but that doesn't mean that there was hazing involved. I knew a lot of those guys, I even went to one of their banquets, they have a lot of secret stuff that they won't share, but I am not going to assume that hazing was involved.

Third, I believe in tradition. I believe it should be upheld with respect. Our founders did have secret activities and rituals that I believe should stay that way. I also believe that this anti-hazing movement is out of control. I was just thinking about this today. . .If we go the way we are going, we are going to have to give each "new member" a list of our rituals outlining every thing that we do. That way they aren't walking into something that they have no clue what is going to happen to them. That would make our rituals public. What if they decided to drop out? What if they decided to show all their friends. The one thing that we hold highest, our rituals/traditions, would be down the tubes. This is very concievable. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this were to occur, would you? Who thinks that our rituals should be public?

Mikki
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

I think that it depends on what scavenger hunts they have to do. Some scavenger hunts are fun and harmless, but others are not. On a 20/20 report about hazing, one of the interviewed girls "Sarah" and other groups of three were put into back seats of cars with their heads down. They couldn't look out the window or talk. One of the sisters drove them out of the state of Minnesota and into North Dakota. (They were close to the state boarder I assume) The girls were dropped off into a wooded area and then told to find their way back to campus. "Sarah said that she spent most of the night outside in sub zero degree temperatures and often wading into knee deep snow". Her foot as it turns out, was frost bit. But she wouldn't let the sisters down and went through with the pain. After 2 days and after initiation she finally got medical attention. The doctor told her that they wanted to schedule an emergency amputation in the morning to cut off her toes. She refused to go through with this procedure and after long painful months of treatment her foot was saved. Later she sued the campus and the sorority, and both denied that it happened. Scavenger hunts such as this, obviously are harmful to the health of students, and I see where some of these people are coming from when they consider this hazing. Other types of scavenger hunts such as finding silly things should not be considered hazing, but what do you do in a situation like this? How do you determine what is harmful and what is not?

Mikki, I for some reason overlooked you are DZ - we have them on my alma mater as well - just as a side note - the best girls on campus too (true ladies and fun to be with - and man could they SING!).

Getting back to our discussion - first of all, please don't think I want true fraternal secrets disclosed. By true secrets, I mean the items you and I probably both took an oath to uphold, meaning the initiation ritual and symbols, etc. (And I'll bet you if we all sat down and went over our particular secrets, we'd find more in common with each other's organizations than differences - however, we both took an oath, so that won't happen) ...However, to me, hazing is not covered by a membership oath, in fact, it flies in the face of the oath one takes at initiation. In short, I believe it makes a hypocrite out of members who perpetuate hazing. However, our "new members" (as you may know, we do not have Pledges, we have Associate Members, and the distinction is MORE than semantic) - are told UP FRONT when they join that they will be asked to do nothing a true man could not or should not do.

I agree that scavenger hunts and other "fun" activities should not be classified in the same category has a hazing activity - however, being forced to drink during an activity does cross a line - at that point, it is no longer just a "scavenger hunt". I also believe new members should wear their pledge (sorry, new member) pins, and they should be worn with pride, not out of obligation. This would help protect them from learning true secrets of the organization, that could spoil their initiation experience.

Our Founding Fathers/Sisters all had secret activities and Rituals upon founding, this is true. But, these Rituals and activities were all tied directly to the ideals, beliefs, and vision of the order. I find it hard to believe that founding fathers of any fraternal organization would approve of many of the hazing practices that are around today (forced consumption of alcohol, sleep deprivation, smearing of food, denial of basic hygiene, calisthenics, the list can go on....) - how would rolling around in last nights dinner leftovers have anything to do with such ideals common to most organizations as Honor, Respect, Brotherhood, Morality, etc...? That is where I'd like to see someone argue the perspective.

I think you and I are very close in our beliefs, and yes, many hazing practices fall into a "gray" area of definition. (And I believe an attempt to create a list of what is or is not hazing is pointless - the activity isn't the issue, it is the intent or motivation behind the activity that is the hazing litmus test) However, there are many more that obviously cross the line, into the loss of personal self-respect in order to belong. To me, that is the greatest tradegy of them all.

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Don't be your brother's keeper; rather, be your brother's Brother.

With scavenger hunts i can see a complaint being too fold.

The first is the items required to obtain. My freshman year, I saw a list a group (not sure if it was a fraternity or what) had to obtain. Some were harmless items like a pink Q-tip or a High School Photo of a girl. Others were not so harmless or innocent. This could be consider (in extreme) hazing because you maybe putting someone under physical deress because they don't like confrontational sitations ("begging" for items) or public embarrisment due to the content of the list. Hazing could also occur based on the outcome of the scavenger hunt - ie punishment if all items are not obtained with in a certain time frame, or for the last group that turns in a completed list.

The second would be more of a liability issue. Someone getting hurt while wondering about the streets either on foot or car. Getting an abusive response (physical or mental) from someone the group asks. etc.

Now with that said. I disagree that scavenger hunts should be included as hazing in such a generalized form. I participated in a scavenger hunt as part of initiation with an honor society. The purpose of the hunt was to aquaint the group with the history of the college and locations of refrence items and labs for my major. In no way have i ever seen or consider this hazing.

artimis

I really don't like all the rules fraternites & sororities are coming up with as far as pledging. We all need to get together and discuss this pledging issue. I think we need to go back with open pledging as far as letting it be known on the yard. Have all the Intakes, dress alike and be together on the yard so people would see frats & soros don't haze. I don't like the term "paper" I think you shoyld be pledge not just send in an application and get the letters. Frats & soros need to know if the person trying to join a particular frat or soro is true to the organization and not joining for the name ..."Paper is out"

Hazing does not equal bond. Those girls that made up the scavanger hunt for the sisters. . .GOOD FOR THEM! Some idiot somewhere had to make a big deal out of a scavanger hunt, now we all suffer for it. If the girls want to do this stuff and they are all for it. . .do it! It's not considered hazing. Hazing is when the girls are forced to do something against their will. If they are making up their own activities, that is fine. Don't restrict it, these FUN activities are what create bonds, not hazing. If you really want to cover your butt, have the incoming classes form a list of ideas of FUN, sisterhood activities that they would like to participate in. Make dates for each activity and then have each girl sign the paper saying that this was their idea and that in no way do they consider these activities hazing. Then submit a copy to the sorority to look over. Vote on each activity and decide if it is something that could possibly be considered a major hazing activity by other people (use common sense-if it's a scavanger hunt, it's ok). Submit a revised list to the girls with the dates. KEEP THE LIST ON FILE. That way if you are given ANY problems by anyone, you have a signed document saying that these girls do not consider it hazing. The document will also not appear to be signed by the girls because of "pressure" because they formed the list. Make sure that it isn't a "big secret" that is what usually gets people in trouble. It might be a harmless activity, but if it's kept secret people believe something else is going on...if it's found out. Well, anyhow, that's my idea.

Mikki
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

First, I have no idea what this "paper" thing is, so somebody enlighten me.

I see the point you were making Artimis. Those things that you mentioned are good examples of what NOT to do. I find it hard to believe that people lack common sense. I think action SHOULD be taken against those who would make up such a scavanger hunt, but I think it's wrong to ban the activity. As for the liability thing. I don't think that holds water. In LIFE, we walk or drive everywhere. Not just for the scavanger hunt. Sororities and Fraternities have parties or socials, as they are often called. These parties are known by their nationals. If there was any liability issue, it should be with that, not a scavanger hunt. If a girl is walking around during a scavanger hunt, and she trips and falls and breaks her arm, I think she's going to be more embarrassed than anything. I don't think she would blame the sorority. Of course I could be wrong. . .there are some pretty money hungry people out there. I went on a scavanger hunt with my professional fraternity, and it was fun. We didn't go off campus and at each location we would learn a little more about the history of our campus(my campus is 5 miles from Antitem Battle Field [civil war battle], so there is a lot of historical sites on and off campus). It was fun, and I in no way considered it hazing.

I do however want to say that I do see you point. There is some validity to all the points, but I think that if hazing is going on, just shut down that chapter or punish those who are doing the hazing. . .don't punish everyone! I think that risk management is very important, and we should all be made aware of the problems with hazing, but I DON'T think we should all pay the price because of some idiots out there who decided to abuse their privilages(sp?).


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"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
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Burning Sands, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I am a member of an LGLO sorority and I pledged above ground. The majority of LGLO's have pledge lines. Our pledges wear uniforms, walk on line, cut corners, etc.

I'm not saying that hazing does not go on, but because the pledges are in the public eye "hazing" can not get out of hand as in previous years. As it is right now, some college campus' feel that walking in line IS hazing. This is ridiculous!

The other day I was watching the Discovery channel. They were showing what it takes to make it in the Naval Academy. I don't see anyone campaigning against the Navy because of their hazing practices. What is the difference?

I learned all about UNITY duing my process. You can't learn this by signing papers. You really have go through the process. For me, it was an experience like no other: to have line sisters, to be together for weeks 24/7, to EARN our letters. I can't understand why they want to take that away.

Yes, some people get out of hand. (I know about the negative pledge experiences, please don't bombard me with that info.) But as a whole, the process would be better if it was above ground and not underground. Let's face reality! There are BGLO sororities and fraternities that still PLEDGE their members. Because they do this behind a cloak of secrecy, it can allow members to feel that "anything goes". Also, some propectees don't want to be "paper". They want to EARN their letters so that they can get RESPECT. Why shouldn't they be given that opportunity?!



[This message has been edited by Serenity (edited April 05, 2000).]

I must agree with what one of my brohs said earlier. I worked way to hard to get to sigma land, i dont want somebody who just signed on to get the advantages that all of us worked for. You teach these skaters the grip and other important things in the organization. They are quick to tell someone the grip and so on. If they would of pleadged for that they would not be quick to tell them. G.O.M.A.B.

Blue,

I don't think anyone here is saying that our respective brother/sisterhoods should accept any joe or jane into our organizations. But rather to employ other methods of evaluating potential memebers:

Do you want a brother who wears a his pledge pin because he's afraid of the consiquences he will receive if he doesn't or one who wears the pin out of pride for what the pin means to him?

Do you want a brother who understands what it means to be a brother because he can take a paddling like a man or a brother who understands what it means by standing next to brothers during service to the brotherhood and thru the brotherhood to the community?


I call them, sisters not because of what we have endured for the name of the sorority, but for our ideals which we uphold.

Hazing will never stop. I think "pledging" not hazing is a good thing. One respects the organization more. If you have a person haze in an organization, I think that the frat or soro should pull that ******* aside and tell he or she that this is not a gang "crips or bloods" this an organization for the people by the people...We should beat our intakes, we should teach our intakes. If a frat or soro really want to haze or pledge hard then don't beat the intake, you can hurt them mentally......see if the intake will break....words shouldn't hurt you if they are coming from people who really don't know, but is trying to get to know you....don't beat an intake physically, beat them mentally to make the strong and sharp...beat knowledge into their head not your fist..............

Mikki:

Oh just wanted to note. For the record, i was playing devils advocate. *smile* I can see why some would feel we need to idiot proof even the greek system. But I don't agree that we should all have to suffer because of it. But I'll shut up before i start jumping up and down on this soapbox and hurt myself.

jenn

I know that Jenn, I was just counteracting. I just find certain things that people call hazing or the reasons they call them hazing a bit funny sometimes. I know that you were just pointing out facts.

Ok, again I will ask. What is this "Paper" thing? What are papers?

As far as pledging goes, I am all for pledging. Entrance into a greek organization is by invitation or by bids. This is not a right, it's a priviledge. We don't accept just every person who walks in and says "I want to join." We have to deem them worthy of our letters. Are they going to be an asset? Are they going to bring something to our organization? Do they show respect? These are things that we look at when we decide who does and does not get a bid or invitation. Someone who has shown signs of the above things are the people who get bids or invitations. During their pledge period they need to further those aspects. They need to continue to prove that they are going to bring respect and further the ideals of our organizations. By pledging, they are doing this. I don't mean pledging as in hazing. I mean pledging by learning their info about the organization. By planning events (fundraisers, community service, socials, activities). They need to show that they have leadership skills. They need to show intrest in the organization, how it works, AND how it relates to the other organizations on campus. This is pledging. Pledging isn't supposed to be criminal activity, hazing, hurtful to yourself/friends/school work. It isn't all about parties and girls/boys. It isn't about who's the best. It isn't about who can take a beating.

If we all look back into the history of our organizations, what were we founded for? What did our founders want to accomplish? Did they want to degrade each other by physically abusing each other? Did they to deprive each other of sleep? Did they want their grades to suffer? Did they want each other to eat their own puke? Did they want to mentally abuse each other? I don't believe that our roots would have lasted this long if that was part of thier pledge process.



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Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
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Mikki,

The term 'paper' means that a person did not go through a pledge process. It is considered a deragatory term. It's essentially saying that the person did not work to get into the organization, the just signed a piece of paper. Some people even go as far as to say a 'paper' person is not a 'true' member of their organization.

I personally feel that your process doesn't matter. As long as you:

A)Know your HISTORY!
B)Work hard in the name of your organization
C)Live up to the prinicples of your organization.

There are plenty of people out there that crossed the burning sands who haven't done any service in years, and don't live up to the principles that our orgs were founded on but are the first ones doing the call or in the stepshows! They are shirt wearers plain and simple. I could go on and on, but I won't. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

CK

[This message has been edited by ZetaAce (edited April 06, 2000).]

Thank you zeta ace, I also think that you have a good answer! :P

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Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

zeta ace is on point. how many folks who pledged are active and financial? how many pledgers do you know who have nightmares? or still harbor ill feeling towards their big brothers or sisters? i know of several who refuse to be active because of the abuse that inflicted upon them. not because of the bond between brothers but because that stuff was done to them(the big brother/sisters). certainly there is something to be said for working hard for a goal. but, endangering people's lives is not what any of our orgs are about. every other day we hear in the news about some org paying out millions of dollars to someone who 'pledged' and died or was seriously injured. many groups have discussed eliminating collegiate chapters all together because of the liability that they present for headquarters. none of us want to see that happen. so, discussion like these in such a public forum hurt, not help the situation.

Hello everyone! I read this whole disscussion thing and I thought I would jump in. I just went through this spring, so there are still things I do not know about the greek system as a whole. I do however know everything I need to know about my organization's history, traditions etc. As far as hazing is concerned. I think that many things that greeks do now can be considered hazing, I also agree that there are many things that are just stupid to call hazing. We had a scavenger hunt. I didnt feel like doing it, but I didnt' consider myself to have been hazed. At first I think alot of my pledge class members were scared as to what would "happen" to us. On our campus our sorority is very secretive and no one knows what we do, so they all assume HAZING. this is not true. if all the other sororities could only see what we did, they would probably laugh. It wasn't hazing at all. And now, after I have been initiated, I look back on everything, and I see the purpose of it. some things we did might have been considered hazing, who knows? But all in all, I feel everything we did, we did together. and if we didnt' want to do something, we would not, as a whole. Therefore, it all brought us together, whether it is considered hazing or not.
One more point I would like to add. we realized that hazing means something different from one person to the next. so that is why we collectively decided as a pledge class to do nothing, even if one girl felt uncomfortable, I think that was the base of our bond. we stood together side by side, and are all thankful of it now
Tori
High Point University
Cool Kids 2000!

Just a few issues that should be mentioned.....

First of all any beating or abuse is obviously hazing and inapropriate behavior. I am glad to see that this problem has become less and less common.

As to the mental "abuse" that some have referred to, I would like to raise a few ideas to the benifits of practices that have now fallen under the classification of hazing. Scavanger Hunts (now banned on my campus) where pledges are forced to find/ask for items that could be embarrassing do have merit. In the real or buisiness world, success depends on ones ability to be outward, never ashamed to ask a dumb question or feel intimidated by coworkers or bosses and executives. The Scavanger Hunt enhances ones ability to accomplish goals even though there may be tough challenges to conquer. In reality that is most of pledging was about, or at least it was in my case. Many of my brothers said that pledging was one of the toughest situtions they've been through, however they will be the first to tell you how much it has helped them. Pledging helps make everything you do in life comparably easier. It enhances time management skills. After pleging I would accomplish much more, since I was forced to use my time more efficiently during pledging to accomplish my goals. This is why so many extremely sucessful people are from Fraternities or Sororities.

Greek life certainly isn't for everyone. If it is not for you, please don't participate. I wish that people would stop trying to force their opinions on a successful institution that has been more than able to govern itself. When individuals are at fault, do not blame entire institutions. That shows that you are to lazy to come up with a viable solution to a given problem.

Greek life is for those who wish to push themselves and achive more. The opportunities that it opens up are endless. Those who participate in the Greek system have gained better teamwork and communications skills than you will ever learn in a classroom. Do you have to be part of a Fraternitiy or Sorority to gain these skills or opportunities? Of course not, however why would discourage an intitution that has provided so much for so long?

Bottom Line - Hazing is wrong, but true pledging is the root of the greek system and I woulde hate to see that vanish.

Okay...if XYZ Fraternity makes their pledges stay up all night, etc., and as a result their grades suffer, is that considered "pledging hard"? Does that make it a better group than ABC, whose actives realize that community service, brotherhood, and academics are far more important than who's "paper" and who got "wood"? If it does, something is seriously wrong with a Greek system that promotes this lack of prioritization.
I'm sure there are people out there, members of my sorority, and other NPC as well as NPHC and NIC groups, who would probably think I am "paper", that my pledging process, since it did not involve any sort of pain, humiliation, etc (in fact, we were constantly asked if we were comfortable doing ANYTHING that was a new member activity). I'm very happy to say that I maintained my grades during the semester I pledged. And if anyone, regardless of letter, has any sort of disrespect for my pledge process, so be it. I was not hazed, and I think it was the fact that I was not hazed, forced to eat or drink anything I didn't want to, beaten, forced to stay up till all hours, or learn meaningless chants that has given me such pride in my sorority.

I don't think that those Fraternities/Sororities who pledge the hardest are nessesarly the best to join. However if you do not have the opportunity to experience a complete pledging process you miss some of the most important parts of greek life. I am an engineering student and grades are definately my #1 priority. There is no reason you can't mix a well organized pledge program and maintain a respectable GPA. I wasn't beaten or humilliated (We learned many lessons in humility which is quite different, though often confused), however the process does increase one's 'mental stamina' which is one of the reasons that the members of greek organizations have consistantly been so successful. As long as everyone realizes the true goals that need to be achived during pledging, the outcome will be positive. Pledging should be challenging. Life is about overcoming challenges; just learning your houses's history and having good intentions are not enough. Many organizations have members with those qualities. Pledging is what sets us apart and makes us better. If staying up too late and being put into uncomfortable situations is considered hazing, then I garauntee that everyone will be 'hazed' for the rest of there life at your workplace and in society.
Who hasn't stayed up late to study or work? Who hasn't been put into an uncomfortable position by their Prof, Boss, friend, or coworker? Its an unfortunate reality that we all need to accept and prepare for.

I don't think less of those who may be considered 'paper'. I wish that everyone would realize that often times there is a difference between those who pledged and those who didn't. Take advantage of what the system has to offer, don't be quick degrade a system that has historically functioned very well.

I am a new member on here, and I must say that these are some interesting responses. Let me put my 06 cents in.

I am not ashamed to say that I was hazed physically and mentally. But, it never was in a manner to where I would question anyone's integrity or I felt like my life was at stake. I was drained mentally and physically, and I was very excited and relieved when I put on that Black and Old Gold.

I don't think the question should be who pledged the hardest because people's perceptions are different. Maybe "Who pledges hard?"

Personally, I think anybody can go get a physical beat down. I will not lie, there were times I felt like I was beat down, but there was so much more to my process.

My process consisted of getting to know my fraternity through learning tons of history(chapter & national), getting to know each other, working together with different personalities, teaching life lesssons, getting physically fit, mental challenges, and learning the true meaning of brotherhood through my experiences and challenges. My experiences always seemed to run well after the midnight hour. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif Being that I am a night person, I could deal with it. Everything I did had significance and reason, and that is how it should be.

I think that we really need to realize that these people we are pledging are our chapter's future. Realizing that, our chapter takes our intake process very seriously because we want our future to keep the chapter's traditions going and possibly add new traditions. Understanding that, it has to be more than just physical. Why settle for just inflicting bludgeonings and malicious attacks? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif

SKEE-PHI FRAT

Personally I think pledging is fine but beating is not. You want the individuals that are entering into your organization to have messed up grades because they wanted to be an Alpha. An Alpha man has always been noted for his character and high scholastic achievement. I can't really comment too much about A Phi but I can about AKA. We are to uphold high scholastics and to take the purpose of your organization away to see who is a true whatever is insignificant. I would want my future sorors to study on line. There information as well as their books. AKA must remain like our founders' and if that can't be maintained AKA will be no more. I would die before I let that happen. We need to really evaluate the principals and ethics of our organizations. Are we acting like our founders and are we welcoming people in our brother or sisterhood that are like our founders? Pledging is fine but, have substance with it. Don't let pledging be in vain. Make your line the tightest and the most educated in the organization and on the campus and I think that would make a true Ebony black and Old gold man. Just for the record No one makes a man like an Alpha Man.

Just my little .08 cents.

Much Love and SKee-Phi my frat Bruh.

Phi-Skee,

I totally agree with you soror. Believe me, academics are a priority when we are accepting someone. Our chapter had the highest g.p.a. in the Southwestern Region (Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklohoma) last year, and we could not have done that pledging people with low grades, especially with even lower grades after intake. We strive for excellence in everything we do. Why would we allow someone to go through intake and then they not be able to be active the next semester. Alpha would not be Alpha if we weren't excelling scholastically. That is an important aspect of the intake process as well. When I was going through, we had to be in the library from 7 p.m. - 10 p.m., and our chapter strongly stresses academics before, during, and after membership intake.

Skee-Phi Frat,

Now that's the A phi, I know. I am proud of your chapter and that is how everyone should think in greekdom. I think we as greeks tend to fall short on the individuals we bring into our greek family. I want to give you a big 00000008' from our Alpha Xi Chapter, and O6' from our Gamma Mu Chapter in Salisbury, North Carolina.

GOD bless,

Pinkice9

I think that you put that very well

I don't know if you are assuming that anyone who pledges will loose their GPA, but I know that that is not true. But somehow someone decided that having people who are pledging have specified study time is hazing,(go figure).

But I guess I side tracked, my only point is that many people who pledge also study together and make sure that the other people on their line study and go to class, it's called bonding and it makes you care about the others well-being

blu_theatrics,
I must say that unfortunately it is true that people's grades plummet down when they pledge. I see it every semester. Mine personally didn't; mine actually went up.

I do believe that it depends of individuals' study skills as well. If the chapter is implementing required study sessions for their membership intake, that will give motivation to focus on your academics, not just your fraternity/sorority history during membership intake.

I'm not saying that you have not saw it happen, the only thing that I am trying to do is show the other side and all of thepeople that I have saw pledge and join sororities and fraternities have actually saw theregrades go up, and basically, it is because of first the reqiured study sessions and secondly after they are members their bruhs and sorors make sure they go to class and maintain adequate GPAs
I am not saying you are wrong, I am just trying to let you know that sometimes grades are improved during/after pledging

Beating? Eating their own vomit? You must be kidding me. Had my sorority members chosen to make themselves feel good and superior to me by beating or humiliating me, I would have never joined. It was the character of the sorority sisters which constantly strove to lift me up that made me want to make it to sisterhood.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not "paper" as it seems to be called. But neither am I "wood." Those are not the only two options. Because not everyone who starts pledge period makes it to the end, and it's not because of hazing. It's because we have to study our organization's history constantly, pass several tests, do our own fundraisers and philanthropic projects as a class, be at all the weekly required meetings and activities, and yes, make up fun activities that we enjoy as well. And it was in these experiences of happiness that we were emotionally bound together. Then once we became sisters, doing the hard work to keep our sorority going, the only chapter of a national sorority in our state. Every quarter was a struggle and it was also in the struggle that we became close. And we did it all without hurting each other.

There were already so many challenges from the outside world and from the simple nature of keeping your relatively new chapter strong; we really did not need to beat on each to add to it.

I would like to say that you aren't paper. I know that people say paper burns, but it is also replacable as well. It's better to have your papaer or to be paper if it means you keeping your grades up. All real man and or woman wouldn't allow anyone to beat on them for some letters that won't even get you into heaven. The Lord is not in the pledging process enough. Pray, ask the Lord to help all greeks frats and sorrors to be a example of Christianity. If you don't know the Lord then all that you do is in vein. Nothing is wrong with having good ole fun but when you are going against the teachings of the Lord then something is wrong. Also, the founders of these frat and sorrors didn't get hazrd so why should you? I know that I didn't but I still get respect. The Lord is the only one who will beat one me. I will not allow no human in hell to do anything to me that the Lord wouldn't do.

I think pledging does bond people together. However, I know a certain chapter of XYZ a BGLO who pledged their lines hard, and when I say hard....well...nuf said. These guys went through year after year, and still they lost their house, cuz even though they were pledged hard they didn't find that undying love that they should have found...I'm guessing on that.

Needless to say pledging might bond, but if that's all it does, then it isn't worth it. Besides, you can hold much love for your house even if you are paper. Just because you weren't made, doesn't mean that the house hasn't made you after the fact.


Much Love,

Kymberleigh
Delta Delta Delta

I think its great to believe that your organization pledges the hardest. The truth is processes vary from yard to yard. Different schools do things differently. Chapters differ greatly in the number and type of men and women they choose as members. It is a novel idea to believe that good pledging is an "across the board" thing. The realoity is that is isn't.

I think its great to believe that your organization pledges the hardest. The truth is processes vary from yard to yard. Different schools do things differently. Chapters differ greatly in the number and type of men and women they choose as members. It is a novel idea to believe that good pledging is an "across the board" thing. The reality is that is isn't.

And in my opinion hazing and pledging are not one in the same...but that is another post entirely!