Racial differences in Hazing.
 

When I see examples of Hazing for various groups, the types of Hazing differ *greatly* by race and gender.

The following are Heavy tendencies (not always true, but fairly often)
White Fraternities: Hazing generaaly involes alcohol and death occur due to sheer alcohol poisoning. Entire Hazing event takes place within 24 hours.

Black Fraternities: Hazing is generally Physical (with some mental/emotional) stress. Alcohol generally not factor. Physical stress of pledging often long term.

White Sororities: Hazing incidents relatively rare. Often almost mental/emotional involving looks/weight

Black Sororities: Similar to White Sororities, additional physical stresses.

Do you think this is accurate, and does that indicate that work to prevent hazing needs to be tailored to race and gender?


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Naraht
Alpha Phi Omega Alumni Volunteer

Hmm, interesting & pretty much accurate, although I wouldn't paint women with a "relatively harmless" brush. The racial differences in hazing is something I've been aware of since I started college. I never understood why there is a "preoccupation" with drinking with my "white" greek counterparts. Not to say that "black" greeks don't drink. It's just very rare for a drinking game to be the theme for one of our parties.

Once we learn that there IS a difference between hazing & pledging, once we learn that pledging is not going to be this totally warm & fuzzy time where everyone is nice & welcomes you just because you asked we'll all be better off.

This statement truly disturbs me! Why ISN'T the new member period a time of bonding and friendship to you?? The new member period should not be filled with stress and anxiety http://www.plaudersmilies.de/rough/twak.gif , nor should it be a time of doubt in a woman's life. It should be a time when all of her reasons for joining are affirmed and validated and she becomes comfortable with her new family... http://www.plaudersmilies.de/group.gif



[This message has been edited by sigmagrrl (edited April 28, 2001).]

Sigmagrrl, I don't see why this is disturbing to you. College in general is not all warm and fuzzy, so why should pledging be any different? There are all types of stressors out there, it's a part of life. If you are in college and pledging, which is often the case, then you will be stressed. Period. I know when I was on line I had a job, classes, family responsibilities, etc. plus I had to complete all the requirements needed to be initiatiated. They have a word for that: multi-tasking. Yes, I was stressed. And?

In addition, just because you are put under "stress/anxiety" while pledging does not mean you aren't creating friendships and/or bonding with your linesisters or big sisters. Often times the strongest relationships are relationships created in times of stress and anxiety.

Sigmagrrl, I am not talking about creating stress by the threat/fear of physical punishment. That is something different altogether. I am sure 12dn94dst wasn't speaking about that either. Correct me if I am wrong, Miss Kelli.

I think the problem is that whenever an individual in a BGLO talks about "stress/anxiety" while pledging it is often taken to mean beating the crap out of someone. There is a diffrence.

Bingo Serenity!

Sigmagrrl, read what I typed, instead of reading INTO what I typed.

The effective word in that statement is TOTALLY. I don't think any of us leads drama & stress free lives. If you do, let me know how you do it. Nowhere did I say or suggest that the pledge period should not be one of bonding and friendship. Afterall, that's one of the main points of pledging, to bond with your line sisters and your big sisters. Take that away and you've removed a lot of the fun. What I DID suggest is it's not going to be easy, nor should it be. Life in general is not all that easy.

[This message has been edited by 12dn94dst (edited April 28, 2001).]

Kelli and Serenity - THANK YOU!! You hit the nail SO on the head!

Some groups try to "shield" their pledges from anything difficult or unpleasant, for fear it'll somehow get twisted into hazing. Some groups say "oh it's OK if you can't show up, just try to do what you can" (and we all know there are people who given an inch, will take a mile).

Then comes initiation day. Then comes the day after initiation day. "Oh, by the way, we're in debt and you have to raise (insert gigantic amount here) by the end of the semester...by the way, 3 sisters just quit their positions and you're the new social chair...by the way, we have 4 mandatory events this week and if you don't go you'll get fined..." - well, I think you all know where I am going. I think one of the points of the pledge period is to help you to learn time management. If you know you have to get x, y, & z done, you'll find a way to get it done. Plus you have to keep your grades up or you won't be able to initiate. If you can't handle all that, better to learn before you initiate then become a full member and find out it is too much for you.

Physical or mental anguish that is PURPOSELY inflicted should never be part of any pledge period. However, to imply to a rushee that once she signs her bid everything is roses and daisies, is just not for real.

FWIW, the semester I pledged was a stressful time in my life, but that was due to crap that was there before I ever walked into a rush party, NOT anything with the sisters. In fact, if I had wised up and opened up earlier, they could have saved me a lot of the things I went through.

I don't even want to get started. I think the other girls have coverd it all, but all I will say is, I was not hazed in any way and my new member period wasn't warm and fuzzy all the time either.
It was difficult to learn about every acpect of sorority life, be an example, pass tests, and manage time, but I still feel as if I deserved my membership. I don't have to be abused to feel I earned something.

The BGLOs on my campus had drinking theme parties just like the GLOs did. At least the fraternities anyways.

I can see where you are coming from with the definition of stress and anxiety. I am glad you clarified that for me...But I do still have reservations about it because I feel that the new member period and sisterhood is COMPLETELY marketed this way at recruitment. So, in essence, I guess what I am saying is: are we being truthful when meeting prospective members? Do we tell them that being a sister involves good times and bad, but it is how the sisterhood/brotherhood handles these stressful times TOGETHER that make all the difference in how you will remember this time of your life?? Or do we play that Vitamin C song, give them cake and balloons, and then WHAM! Here's what sisterhood is NOT like??? I am speaking from a personal note because I have experienced these negative sides and think that these experiences have affected the sisterhood to this day (7 years later)!! I don't think I am being unrealistic, but I do have good hindsight. I know that if we had been told that pledging can be a stressful time, I would have been better prepared for those stressors (balancing homework/internship/studying with new member activities)...

Well, this perception may be true with NPC/IFC orgs but with NPHC and other HBGLOs (and some LGLOs as well), stress is expected and demanded.

Many times, people come on the board saying that they expect to be hazed. They say that because they do not know the difference between hazing and pledging. They are expecting it not to be easy and it shouldn't.

When you hear expressions like 'crossing the burning sands' and 'trial by fire', even 'taking wood' (often times literally but sometimes not) you know that your process is expected to be challenging and hard.

BUT the pledging is designed to help you realize your strengths and weakness as well as bond with your ls/lb and bs/bb. It is also designed to teach you the importance of time management, group think, hard work and service to others.

All this is to prepare you for the work in the org AFTER you cross, which is when the REAL pledging begins....there is no PR campaign here!




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MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

here we go again. i didn't say "never" i said "very rare," meaning it does happen, just not often.

Getting back to the topic at hand, why not inform those rushing that if they do make it to be a new/associate member that it will be extra work? it's the truth, isn't it? why not give them an idea of what being a member is like? I'm not trying to be facetious (for once), I'd really like to know. Is it against the rules?

Here I go, one more argument in favor of DEFERRED RUSH.

When I pledged I had seen women on my floor go through rush and their pledge periods and I KNEW it was going to be a lot of time and a lot of work. I knew which sorority's pledges were coming home drunk at 4 AM on a school night, who was happy with her pledging, and who was not. I also got to see who did personality 180's after they joined. I was a first generation college student with no clue about anything Greek so it was a really helpful eye-opener. I never, ever thought my pledge period was going to be peaches and cream and I am eternally grateful that I was able to observe, which I might not have had my school not had deferred rush.

sigmagrrl, I agree completely that we should think twice about what we are "selling" at rush. Sometimes I think "responsibility" has become a dirty word and it is definitely one that women need to hear more often at rush. They need to know this isn't the high school library club where you show up for 2 periods a week and you're done.* (2 cent vent) The focus on quantity needs to go for once and for all and be replaced by a focus on QUALITY and COMMITMENT.

*This reference is in no way a disparagement towards past, present or future Library Club members. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

I know the original poster stated that the racial differences in hazing do not apply across the board. This is a good disclaimer, because I completely disagree with the assesment of Black sorority hazing. I have not seen where Black sorority hazing has anything to do with looks and weight. I see it as being more of what was attributed to Black fraternities. I am not saying that this is something to brag about, but I think we want to get a more accurate depiction of what is really going on out there.
To a certain extent, I agree that HBGLOs and WGLOs should be treated differently. There are huge differences between the two. In that regard, I see where Black and white hazing may vary.
I think, particularly at white schools, the school needs to better understand HBGLOs and see that we can not be expected to behave--or even conduct membership intake--as our white counterparts. That may deviate from the initial discussion, but....

If there are HBGLOs incorporating drinking parties and what not in the pledge process...they need to be SMACKED SILLY. The HBGLO pledge process has nothing to do with how many socials/parties the prospect can attend. Moreso, the prospect will NOT be at parties or social functions--they won't have the time or the luxury. If you ever see a prospect for HBGLO membership out having fun and at social functions--they're NOT pledging.

ChaosDST YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!! Pledging does not mean fun, it means work. I think (I HOPE) that the poster was referring however, to post-pledge and social activities. I have a problem with that as well. If my chapter even THOUGHT about having alchohol at one of our functions our grad advisor would snatch those pearls so fast.....(she is no joke). That is not what we are about, and I take such offense to the thought that chapter monies for any chapter of any BGLO might be going towards alchohol instead of work in the comunity....it is disgusting to me.

I guess I can't understand the differences of hazing, no matter what race the organization is. After reading some of the BGLO websites, here is something that I found.

The Delta Profile: Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc., was founded on January 13, 1913 at Howard University by 22 undergraduate women. These young women wanted to use their collective strength to promote academic excellence and to provide assistance to persons in need.

How is hazing promoting the message of founders? Hazing doesn't promote academic excellence, and I would consider pledges that are hazed to be the persons in need of some assistance.

I'm just curious as to how hazing promotes the outstanding purpose of such a great organization. I'm not trying to be mean...I plead ignorance and am trying to understand our cultural differences is all.

Ok, so you'd lose your charter if the chapter bought alcohol with chapter funds? I don't think that is different than ANY GLO. However, what if you have a party that's BYOB? I'm pretty sure that's how most, if not all GLO's work, well, maybe not the NPC sororities, but the NIC fraternities anyway. As long as you are following the law, 21+ drinking, BYOB, etc. is it ok to have a party with alcohol?


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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

We can have BYOB, just not in our houses. For instance, we can co-sponsor a BYOB with you, as long as it isn't in our house, or your house for that matter anymore http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

The difference is that we did not have to be *forced* to go dry. Alcohol is not part of the tradition of pledging or any other social aspect of HBGLOs, period. Now we do have 'mixes' at parties on occasion, like Kappa Punch, but I have NEVER seen a HBGLO have a keg party or things of that nature. In fact, there was a GLO fraternity on campus where if your feet did not stick to the floor of their house, that meant they didn't have enough kegs! *this was back in the day, late 80s* You would NEVER see a BGLO frat party treat their house like that.

Alcohol is another of the areas where GLOs and BGLOs have different traditions and protocols.



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MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

I was referring to ANY party thrown by an HBGLO. I'm with y'all, if I EVER see a pledge at a party...well, that's another topic.

As my Sorors & I have stated, keg parties & the like are not our thing. There are 2 threads (at least)on GC in which someone is looking for party themes. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/...ML/000003.html and http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/...ML/000016.html There were a few that did not involve alcohol and most, if not all of the responses were from members of non-HBGLOs. The ideas sound fun but why include alcohol? Does alcohol make them "more" fun? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif As for the whole "I'm over 21 therefore I should be able to drink at my frat/sorority party" true, you should be able to, BUT we all know good and well that under-aged folks will be in attendance, and unless you're going to be carding folks at the door and handing out plastic bracelets to those enough to drink, it's your RESPONSIBILITY not to allow minors access to alcohol, unless your chapter has money like that to waste on insurance.

For shadokat and anyone else who is confused:hazing and pledging are 2 different things. The terms are NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. If it helps, looks at it this way: pledging is an EVENT, hazing is a THING that can happen while you are PLEDGING. Like I said in my first response, once we learn the difference between the two, we'll be on our way to solving the problem.

[This message has been edited by 12dn94dst (edited May 01, 2001).]

mccoyred--

I don't know if you are speaking of fraternities or sororities or both, but when I pledged, we signed a form stating that we would not consume alcohol at ANY time during our new member program. Each new member does it in our chapter. No alcohol is at any new member event EVER, and plays no role in our new member process.

Secondly, my sorority is not forcing our chapters to go dry. We are passing policy stating that they are not allowed to co-sponsor functions with alcohol in fraternity housing. They can do so at any third party vendor with licensed bartenders. This is by no means forcing us to go dry.

I don't think any group's traditions are steeped in alcohol. I think that drinking in college is something that most students take part in. Whether it be a keg party or Kappa punch, it's all alcohol. I've been to a Kappa party or two, and there wasn't much difference between their parties and those at white GLOs. This could just be my school, I don't know. But most students, GLO, BGLO, HGLO, or GDI, they enjoyed the party scene.

Maybe this is just another area where perceptions just differ. The only place I have ever seen alchohol at an HBGLO event is at the after-set (afterparty) (ok, and at an NPHC conference, but that was a grown folks thing, lol). People serve their red, or pink, or whatever color punches, but that's it. No unofficial BYOB's or anything. They are not a part of our events- how can you be on point when you are strolling if you're drunk???? lol. I know that our strolls are sometimes complicated, and as much as I could do them in my SLEEP, I would not take a chance and do them drunk- messing up would just not be an option!

It's just a mindset difference. Not for all HWGLO's but for many, alchohol is just part of the party scene, whether you bring your own or have it there. It's not really part of ours at all....

I don't know if you are speaking of fraternities or sororities or both, but when I pledged, we signed a form stating that we would not consume alcohol at ANY time during our new member program. Each new member does it in our chapter. No alcohol is at any new member event EVER, and plays no role in our new member process.

Maybe not yours but I have *seen* it happen. Like I said, this was back in the day.


Secondly, my sorority is not forcing our chapters to go dry. We are passing policy stating that they are not allowed to co-sponsor functions with alcohol in fraternity housing. They can do so at any third party vendor with licensed bartenders. This is by no means forcing us to go dry.


Maybe force is the wrong word. My point is that it was never an issue for us, PERIOD.


I don't think any group's traditions are steeped in alcohol. I think that drinking in college is something that most students take part in. Whether it be a keg party or Kappa punch, it's all alcohol. I've been to a Kappa party or two, and there wasn't much difference between their parties and those at white GLOs.


I have been to both and, to me, it is a HUGE difference.


This could just be my school, I don't know. But most students, GLO, BGLO, HGLO, or GDI, they enjoyed the party scene.


There were certain fraternities where you couldn't say their name witout saying something about alcohol in the same breath. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif

Now I gather that does not still happen, esp to that extent but the point is that IT WAS NEVER AN ISSUE FOR THE NPHC ORGS. As indicated before, just another difference in the culture!


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MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

[This message has been edited by mccoyred (edited May 02, 2001).]

an attempt to bring this topic back on course....

For shadokat and anyone else who is confused: hazing and pledging are 2 different things. The terms are NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. If it helps, looks at it this way: pledging is an EVENT, hazing is a THING that can happen while you are PLEDGING. Like I said in my first response, once we learn the difference between the two, we'll be on our way to solving the problem.

You're right, HAZING does NOTHING to promote what Delta or any any sorority or fraternity is about. No one here said they were PRO-HAZING. If anything, we're PRO-PLEDGING. That is: PRO-TIME MANAGEMENT, PRO-SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, PRO-CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY, PRO-TEAMWORK, PRO-ACADEMIC RESPONSIBILITY, PRO-SISTERHOOD, PRO-BONDING, PRO-SELF AWARENESS, PRO-PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT and a heck of a lot of other positive life skills that are developed when one is online.

i still would like to know the answer to this one. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

If I'm not mistaken--don't the NIC and NPC have the same guidelines for alcohol risk management? I know we are only allowed to co-sponsor events with groups that have the same alcohol policy.

I've noticed that there is a strong prejudice that the "white" fraternities and sororities REQUIRE drinking as part of their new member education. I had this "discussion" (if that's what you want to call it) with my cousin (who's in a NPHC sorority) about that...she INSISTED that I had been forced to drink as part of my new member education process...and that I didn't want to admit it, because "they ALL do it". http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif I can safely say that I DID NOT DRINK AT ALL during new member education activities, not even a glass of wine at chapter dinners.

The NPHC and IFC parties I've attended are basically the same, but more is allowed with the IFC groups because they have their own housing. Still...the kegs flow just as freely. There are still the same drunken nuts.

The pledge program that I went through was dry, even though I 'm a member of what would be thought of as a "white fraternity". I think that broad generalizations of how new members are incoperated into a greek orgainization are, for the most part unfair. I do think though that the particular campus culture where a greek organization is located plays an important role in the method that new members are educated. I could be wrong though...