Tell me if this would bother you.
 

We have a girl who wants to associate with our chapter. She seems nice enough so we decided that we'd call her reccomendations. We called her chapter and they ( the president) said she's in good standing technically. Technically? Come to find out, she got caught in a bit of mischief with a boy. OK fine haven't we all been caught kissing, whatever. But then-and this is the part that bothers me- the girl on the phone goes "I mean if you don't mind your sisters dating black guys." WHAT??? Basically the gist of this is that she was caught kissing a black guy in the down stairs parlor of the house.It seems to me that the other chapter was more worried about it being a black guy than the fact they were kissing.I know there are racist people in world. And as much as they irritate me-they do have the right to their opinion. But I just could not believe this girl admitted this to me-a total stranger (Just b/c your in the same group doesn't mean your all the same)on the phone!!!!!!!!! Also, I could not believe that this day in age someone would make that statement and in the next breath bragg about how great their groups is. I am so iritated. Now I feel that if we don't let her affiliate (which we were probably going to do-but you never know-we want to get to knoe HER better-not her "rep")we are being just as racist. I haven't said anything to anyone else yet, but I do have two messages on machine right now "So what did X chapter say about Suzie Q?" I mean this came from a VERY prestigious & old group(single letter chapter) on a BIG greek campus. :confused:

Wow, you are more restrained than I am...I would have said something to the effect of "gee, I'm afraid she's too tame for us. We usually @#$% goats" and hung up.

Get to know her, and if she and your chapter are a good fit, definitely she should affiliate.

thats actually really sad...do you think it is the reason she left that chapter?

I would ignore the comment entirely. That is the opinion of one person, not the chapter. If the woman in question is in good standing both with her former chapter and with the national office and your group thinks she would be a good fit within your chapter, affiliate her, make her welcome and forget the closemindedness of the other chapter. Seriously - don't even bring the comments up in ANY WAY, as it will bring you all sorts of trouble.

Blue Violet,
Ugh, what a disturbing phone call and story. It made me shudder.
My advice is to first welcome this new sister with open arms, make sure she is comfortable and involved. Take a special interest in her adjustment into your chapter. It seems to me her transferring might have had a lot to do with the repellent, racist attitudes that she may have confronted on her former campus. Do not press her for details about this, but provide support if she seeks it.
As for telling your other sisters in your chapter, I would not do this. I think it would only make them curious about the circumstances of this new sister's transfer, and would take the focus off of learning about her as a person.
However, I would IMMEDIATELY write an email to your chapter advisor, your district advisor and the district advisor for the chapter in question, and tell them word for word what the "single letter chapter" sister told you. Those women in that "old" chapter need to be turned around as soon as possible. They need workshops, education and prayer. Do not feel like you are "telling" on them...racism is a sickness. You would tell a very sick sister to get to a doctor or a hospital, so don't spend a moment hesitating. Racism limits what people can see and experience in this world. Racist individuals live less of a life than those who can be tolerant and appreciative of all the beautiful differences in this world. So please write that email asap, you would be doing a service to those sisters.

Good luck, and Greek Love,
violets

I agree with Violets...you need to alert the appropriate officials in your organization immediately!

I have a question...why do you have to decide whether or not this sister can affiliate with your chapter? Once you verify that she is indeed a member in good standing, can't she just start attending your meetings and functions? Why do you have to decide if she is "a good fit"? What if you decide you don't like her? Does she just roam around a new campus by herself? No disrespect--I suppose I don't understand this procedure. In my LGLO, a sister from another chapter is to be taken in and is welcome to participate in all chapter functions as long as she is in good standing, no matter how we feel about her personally.

Latina Alumna,

I believe that all NPC groups require a chapter vote before someone can affiliate. This has been heavily discussed on GC but it has to do with some chapters not exactly being selective--okay, taking women who were literally psychos--and the women went to other campuses and were not welcomed with open arms. If you can find those threads and read the stories, you'll see why.

Another reason that automatic affiliation isn't allowed is that especially in the South, if a woman thinks she can't make the cut into the sorority she wants, she'll pledge it at a less selective school and then transfer to the bigger one. Sometimes a sorority will even suggest that to a prospective member. The thing is that most big Southern schools have limits on how many members they can have.

Pay Attention To Pnguintrax...
 

She is absolutely right. Don't mention it, and don't take the advice to stir up the national office or district advisor. It will blow up on you in ways you can't imagine. If the young woman is compatible with your chapter, then take her on her own merits and make her feel welcome as a Sister. Please, listen to Pnguintrax. My chapter has black, asian, hispanic, but many others chapters don't, especially in the south. Race is a dangerous lightening strike, and not everyone feels the same way you do.

ohhhh yes! i would be mad as a hornet. please don't tell your other chapter members. tell them that she was in good standing with her last chapter. based on your reaction with the comment, i guess your national doesn't consider kissing a black man against policy (duh) so she is in good standing! get to know this woman for who she is....and as someone else said, make her feel a welcome part of your chapter! and please, please please, send a note to your national office, advisor, area officier, etc. this is not acceptable behavior. perhaps it was just this one woman's opinion, but i would be afraid that it might be the whole chapters!! and not to mention, if this woman couldn't handle another sister kissing someone of another ethnicity, then imagine what she would do if someone tried to JOIN her chapter!!!!

thanks
 

I am definitely going to just keep my mouth shut to the others and just say she is in good standing and let everyone else make up their own minds. I thought about calling out the other chapter-until I remembered that I have made certain promises. I haven't mentioned my orgs. name so I don't think that really counts as ritual blabbing. If I expect to be treated a certain way I need to act it and not stoop. Besides, I know that even if it is unspoken, MANY of my sisters would look down on an interacial relationship. Its not the PC thing to admit, but it is very real. There are no black girls in any "traditional (AKA white)" groups here. There are very few Latinas and a handful of Asian/ Indian ladies. It is very mono-cultural if you will. There might be a reason.....

"that is the opinion of one person, not the chapter."

Is it? The original post isn't perfectly clear on this point, but it left me with the impression that Blue Violet was speaking to the president of the "single letter chapter." The president is a highly visible and powerful leader in any organization. She serves as spokesperson and figurehead. When she speaks about sorority matters, she will indeed be viewed as the voice of the chapter.

This was not a heart-to-heart talk with a close friend. Blue Violet and the other president were conducting official sorority business. If a recognized leader within the organization is attempting to make racial separation a criterion for membership, that's a gigantic problem.

I'm no expert in dealing with national headquarters. But if a sister of mine made it clear that her racism was impacting the way she was handling sorority business, I'd be speed-dialing nationals, and to hell with the consequences. They need to know exactly who is in charge of that single-letter chapter. Last I checked, no NPC group included hatred and ignorance among the values the sorority is supposed to promote.

Ivy

What a sad state of affairs that a "White" Girl was kissing a "Black Man" and gets in a world of S*&^T for doing it:eek:

She may very well be a great lady who can be an asset to your Chapter!:)

Look to the person, not the color!

I know that she will have to be voted on such as I found out even in NIC Chapters which blew me away!

I guess I am way out of teh loop!:o

That is so sad. This is 2002, and people still have the same mentality about things as back in the 1960s and before. What does that have to do with a girl's character???
I'm glad that girl got out of there. That's the last thing anyone needs to be around. Hopefully, she'll find a happy new home with your chapter:)

I had a talk about this with one of my friends yesterday. With all the policing of alcohol that our GLO's do, why don't we champion other things that can destroy us as well? Why don't our national organizations address this issue? By dismissing the racism that goes on in our own selection processes, we are abetting it and saying that it is ok. And it's not!

Although I know that race realtions in the United States are far from what they should be, we should be issuing statements that urge us to look at other qualities of PNM's and our sisters other than race. We shoudl be training recuritment/ personnel advisors to help our chapters address this issue!!! We easily have vehicles that can make is problem better, and we, as Greek organizations, have refused to do so. I think it is a travesty, and soemthing that panhellenic should pay more attention to.

-M

So, just so I'm clear on the matter, the consenous here is to just sweep it under the rug, and act like it didn't happen or doesn't matter?

A good first step might be to just ask your chapter advisor what she would recommend that you do regarding reporting the other chapter to nationals.
As for what the other chapter president told you, what would you do if she had said, "suzie was caught kissing a boy" without specifying whether that young man was African-American, Asian, Caucasian, etc: Would you relay that information to the other members of your chapter or just chalk it up to gossip? Your decision on Suzie's action should not include the race of the young man in question (this sounds like what you were going to do anyway) and really what sister hasn't been guilty of kissing someone during their college career.

Ridiculous. :mad:

Just keep the comment to yourself and judge her on her own merit.

I'm a little confused as to why kissing a guy would be an issue at all...Regardless of the colour of his skin, what if she was dating this boy, or starting to date this boy...or just felt like kissing him for shits and giggles. It's not like she was caught having sex on the front lawn of the house...it was a kiss. The fact that she was "caught kissing" any boy...should never have been brought up at all, and most likely was only brought up because he was African-American. It's a shame that people still hold attitudes like this and I would hope you would hold your chapter to a higher standard, and I would hope that your chapter is enlightened enough to realize that this should never be an issue. I hope you affiliate this girl based on her character and her good standing.

I have to agree -- this could have been a totally innocent situation, such as a guy dropping her off at the end of a date. If they were only kissing, it doesn't sound like she deserves to have her reputation trashed -- I think we've all seen people committ much more serious ofenses on buses to parties or at formals.

It sounds like this president was looking for a way to bring up the fact that she was dating a black man. Be glad that you're above her and can recognize this blatant racism. If someone made a comment like that to me, I would be doubting their intelligence and the prestige of their big university and chapter. Recieve this new member with open arms and be glad you've rescued her from her former small-minded sisters.

kissing...
 

I was trying to be discrete....but basically, having male company is OK, making out with said company in the living room-NOT ok.You could be brought up on standards for that-especially if you are in your letters or whatever.

I personally don't care about her guy's color. But if she was acting like a ho-bag well I do care about that.(I don't think thats the case though!) BUT I still can't believe the Prez said what she said.

gosh, i wonder what that chapter would say about the several great bi-racial women we have in my chapter. :rolleyes:

some people never fail to astound me!

I was gonna ask the same thing. But then I figured maybe all NPC sororities had some type rule for behavior like this in the house...like no kissing allowed. :o I don't know...LOL!

Blue Violet, I agree with everyone else about not telling the rest of your chapter about the comment. Which, BTW, I would take as the general sentiment of the other chapter since it came from the president. Like another poster said before, the call was sorority business, not personal. IMO, I think she wanted to make it clear that that type of behavior is not acceptable in her chapter. So, in case the same sentiment was true at your chapter, she wanted to pass along that little "tidbit" of information. I think that's why she said the girl was "technically" in good standing.

Anyway, if she's in good standing, all that should be done is for you and your sisters to decide whether she'll be a good fit for your chapter. Good luck!

Re: kissing...
 

That is true...if she was not being a lil lady like that ok...but what the president said:eek: ..she was totally out of order.:rolleyes:

i don't think anyone is saying to pretend like that girl didn't make the comment. instead of giving that info to the chapter to aid in the decision of whether to allow her to affiliate, we are suggesting that she keep it to herself....and bring the info to her advisor and her national's attention. the other women in her chapter do not need the info.


blue violet,
"I was trying to be discrete....but basically, having male company is OK, making out with said company in the living room-NOT ok.You could be brought up on standards for that-especially if you are in your letters or whatever."

is this a chapter rule or a national rule? i am in shock that you could be brought to standards for kissing someone in the living room!! and i can't imagine that it should make any difference whether you are in letters or not. i completely agree that if they were having sex in the living room, then that would not be appropriate, but i really don't feel that it is any business of the chapter that she would be going to!!! i am glad that you decided not to bring your chapter's attention, however, i wish you would reconsider telling your national org about the incident.

OMG! I would have BLOWN UP at that girl. Who in the hell does she think she is? It is sad to see that in the year 2002, we still have people like that who are in CHARGE of a whole chapter of women. Now, as for the other girl, let her in and get to know her. Obviously, she doesn't agree with the rest of the chapter. Being in a bi-racial relationship myself (I am Latina, my boyfriend is black), I get very offended if anyone of my sisters were to say that about me. But to them we are just another couple. You could maybe talk to this girl about what the president said and get the low down. And honestly, TELL YOUR NATIONAL! I am so sure they would love to know that a president of one of their oldest chapters is one racist prejudice jerk (I could say a whole lot more :mad: ) Because action needs to be taken. If they have a problem with a sister just KISSING someone of another race, what would they think about girls from other races rushing? (I can take a wild guess that their chapter is NOT diverse). While my chapter lacked diversity as well, they were always looking for other girls (its just hard to get them since they join traditional black, latina, or asian sororities). And when they met me, they welcomed me with open arms. My origin was not an issue. And thats how you guys have to be. Because it sounds to me like you guys are obviously much better and above that other chapter.

If I had a racist chapter I would want to know about it.

national...
 

Hmmm, without giving it away, a girl at the that "Single letter chapter" -who EVERY body loves, is the daughter of a national officer. Triple legacy or something.So, I am guessing national has a clue.

I am guessing national has a clue.
 

:eek:

National knows that the president of this chapter is running it in a racist fashion and isn't doing anything about it?

Don't they realize just how bad that's going to blow up in their faces?

Remember what happened to the chapter I won't name at an SEC school which allegedly discussed a PNM's race while deciding to cut her? Maybe it really happened, maybe it didn't, but the chapter got gigantic, national bad press over the incident. The New York Times had "All-white sorority keeps black girl out" headlines the next day...and they DID print the GLO's name.

When this single-letter chapter makes a tiny slip and reveals its racist core to the outside world, they're going to have CNN setting up shop on their front lawn. Only this time, the accusation will be true...and it may bring the chapter down.

Ivy

I know
 

Ivy-I know exactly which chapter you were referring to and even with the bad press they got, They have made quota or more every year, they are still on campus, they are still going strong.That bad press did not affect their intake one little bit.National made them go to a sensitivity seminar or some crap. Look at your BIG schools. How many non-whites do you see? When I look at my national website and click on the links to other chapter-they all have their newest new member class picture on it. Count how many girls aren't white. You will not run out of fingers.

I don't give a flying f*(|< what anyone says, Miss Prez was in the wrong. How ridiculous...She was caught kissing a black guy. FUCK THAT. Sorry to be so volitale, but racism is one of my BIGGEST pet peeves... My step father is racist like a mofo and I had to move out of his house because of it..I couldn't handle being around that much ignorance and stupidity. It is VERY disturbing to me that this disgrace is a chapter president, Do they think no one will find out that they are the way they are? Especially when someone is so loose-lipped to say something like she said to you!!! :mad: :mad: :rolleyes: I'll stop myself before I get too passionate and start offending people, but seriously...what an idiot!!! Maybe she's inbred???

Hey BlueViolet, I PMd you :)

That bad press did not affect their intake one little bit.
 

This thread makes me feel like some kind of naive Pollyanna. I'm acutely aware that there's a giant problem with racism in this country...but somehow I expect people to be ashamed of it. In particular, I guess I kind of expect national sororities to take their values seriously and actually work to build better women. I expect them to try a little harder than this. I did not expect them to deliberately tolerate blatant racism in the operation of their official functions. This is not a glass ceiling we're talking about here. We're talking about suggesting that a member be forced to go alum because she kissed a black guy.

It sickens me to think of all the nonwhite members of this GLO taking vows of loyalty to a sorority which is being profoundly disloyal to them. Their chapters love them, but what is the meaning of national sisterhood in light of this kind of betrayal?

On a related note, does anyone know when the various historically white GLOs removed the whites-only clauses from their constitutions? How long has it been?

Ivy

I was unaware that "Historically White" organizations had non-white clauses in their constitutions. Example?

it goes both ways unfortunately....
 

We had a really nice girl rushing us and she said that she was going to join BGLO instead. We asked why-cause we really liked her-and she said she like both of us but they made her feel guilty about even considering us and that she didn't want to be a traitor. She said if things with them didn't work out, she'd rush us again the next year.They were the lucky ones-she is so sweet.

First I want to thank IvySpice for her intelligent, well reasoned and passionate posts in this thread. You have said so much that I think needs to be read by anyone who values their Greek membership.
IvySpice I hope that you are active both in your sorority and, I especially hope, Panhellenic. Your abilities, values and leadership are needed there.

BlueViolet,
I know this situation must be very difficult for you, but I reiterate my advice. Please inform your chapter advisor, your district advisor and the district advisor for the "single letter chapter." (I'm assuming the structure of your sorority, but I'm sure you follow my meaning.) Give these alumnae volunteers the opportunity to address this disturbing situation. As a sorority volunteer I know that I work for the sisterhood to insure that every woman who joins will know the ADPi I do. I would be crushed if I found out that this type of racism was being perpetuated by a chapter president and I was not trusted enough with the information.
I wish you all the best with this decision.
violets

White clauses
 

I read a book written by a Berkeley fraternity brother re his experience circa 1960. He mentioned that at that time there were 4 national fraternities that still had "white clauses" (I won't mention the names, if you want to know PM me).

The best way to find out who had them is to find an old Baird's from the 30's or 40's - they often specify if the GLO is composed of "Christian white males" or the like.

This isn't always true. I know that we don't have a vote to decide if a transfer student can affiliate with our chapter. We've had two women transfer into our chapter, and we never voted. If a woman is an initiated member in good standing, she is welcomed to our chapters.