Greek Life is Dead...
 

This is going to be kind of long. Alright I have to explain. I already go a private university that is very small and the greek life is quite miniscular in size. We have 2 Sororities and 3 Fraternities. Last semester (spring 2002) the school's administration came down so hard on all of us because it deemed that all GLOs have evil origins and all the good stuff we do is a cover up for corruption and illegal activity. This came from a situation that happened on the campus years ago with a GLO that is not even present anymore on the campus. They started trying to tap into our meetings and follow us around. They had phones in the dorms tapped and also put taps in a someones apartment. Isn't that illegal?!?! They banded us from wearing any greek praphinalia(hope I spelled that right) , or have it on our cars or hold meetings of any sort and if we did we would get expelled. At the beginnng of this semester every Fraternity and Sorority member had holds on their accounts so they could not register till they went and formally denounce their affiliation in the organization they where a part of to the adminstration.

Our national board wrote a letter to the school to inform them that we will honor their views and will not pledge anyone else from the school publicly or in secret but existing brothers already inducted will remain members. And that we will refrain from promoting our fraternity and will not hold any such activities on campus.

This has bummed out a lot of brothers and scared them. Although we all know that the school will not expell anybody for being in the orginization because they would have already if that was the case, nobody has the greek spirit anymore. This has distorted their views of greek life, and a couple of brothers are contemplating denouncing from the organization as a whole. No one comes to meetings anymore etc. I on the other hand remain with the greek flame I first had. What can I do to bring it back to the brothers and what can we do to still remain unofficially active. I am very stressed. Okay Im done I hope someone reads this and replies.

It seems like your school has forgotten about a few of your civil rights. Give a call to some ACLU lawyers.. They'd love to help you I'm sure:D

It doesn't matter if you're the Hitler youth, the school simply CAN NOT do that stuff. Wearing your letters is freedom of speach. Joining a fraternity is freedom of association and having your meetings is peaceful assembly. They should remember that whole bill of rights thing..

As for the wire tapping bit.. contact your local attorney general. I'm sure that a few school officials could end up in jail over this. You might even be able to sue for damages. Best of luck!

Thanks ktsnake those are a couple things that I did not think of. See the only thing is that it is a private school so does that mean they reserve the right to tell us that we cant where our gear on on campus etc.? Damn and I thought Notre Dame was bad. My school has them beat by far.

A private University does not have this right. My University tried to pull a similar stunt by not allowing certain people to wear letters (to Greeks not represented in our Greek Council, not all of us). They could not get away with it because it is freedom of speech. However, if someone is in an organization that is not a part of the Greek Council, they cannot publicize the organization in any other way (pamphlets, etc.) We have a few people here who have pledged a certain organization at another school or transferred from another school. Most don't wear letters because they are intimidated but a few do. They have that right.

I have reports of people like this!

I think they were called Nazis, Facists, KKK, ETC!

They feel they hold a velvet glove over you such as Stalin or Hitler, for the betterment of the many!

If the Greek Orgs were doing things that deserved it, then so be it!

As far as NHPC Orgs, I feel that they are Memebers of the Greek Coummity period!

IFC and PAN HELL do not direct the movies and what role the actors play!

I know many members of NPHC and find them as much of a Greek Org as anyother.

On our Campus, PSU, Kansas, they are members of the Greek Council as it should be!

this crap angers me. Schools don't want Greek life, but they support anti-christian groups etc(this offends me since I am Christian). Talk to a lawyer.
I have heard of teachers asking students not to wear letters, not sure why, but I think that is more reasonable than what you mentioned.

Private schools are NOT their own private little dictatorships. Unless the student body has to wear a uniform or something of that nature then no they can't tell you to do crap as far as what to wear -- unless they have a valid reasoning that deals with safety of the student population. I'd love to see them try and explain that to a judge or jury.

Get an attorney and have them write the administration a letter informing them that if they try ANYTHING you'll have a lawsuit. Call the DA about the wire tapping (which I'll bet is a crime, it is in most states unless you are law enforcement and have a search warrant). And after that just continue... business as normal until they try something and just ignore what they tell you because they have no way to back it up.

Be prepared for the school to retaliate somehow but in the end if you work hard enough you'll come out on top.

run quickly to the nearest lawyer!!! i do know that they can not tap phones without a warrent, however, if they told you they were going to be tapping phones, then you might have a different story. they can regulate whether you can meet on campus or post info about your org in common areas, however, they can not tell you what you can/cannot wear or post on your car! they were trying to intimidate you by placing holds on your accounts and that is not ok!!! get your national involved even more. it is fine that your school is no longer willing to support greek life (not that i agree), but they can not punish you because you joined the group! also, the groups on campus should come together and present a united front. in addition, contact your alums!!! i know on my campus, many of the buildings are named after alums who were greek. please keep us posted!

Sure they can
 

Private schools can wield tremendous power over the students. Attending a private school is a privilege. Religious private schools, in particular, often require students to pledge that they won't have sex, swear, or skip church -- all of which they are constitutionally entitled to do. If you agreed to follow school rules when you enrolled, you're out of luck. They can absolutely expel you for failure to follow the rules. In fact, they have a constitutional right (freedom of association) to do so.

If they take federal money, they can't kick you out because of your race or national origin. But that's just about the only limitation. Schools that don't take federal money (Bob Jones U.)can do virtually whatever they want.

The constitution places limits only on the government. A private citizen or organization which denies you freedom of speech or privacy may (if they aren't careful) be violating state criminal laws, but they are NOT violating your constitutional rights. The GOVERNMENT has to get a warrant before they tap your phone. The GOVERNMENT can't punish you for having a bumper sticker on your car. You school can.

Even the government can do almost whatever it wants if it has your permission. Think of West Point! The cadets sign away their lives when they enter, and the school can control every detail of their behavior.

I don't have enough information here to gauge whether this school is violating any state laws, but "rights" just aren't relevant to the analysis.

Ivy, J.D.

Ivy is right...if your school does not take federal money, basically they own your butt if you choose to go there. Grove City here in PA is another example. But schools who take NO federal monies are very few and far between.

Here is the bill that protects students' rights to associate. http://dke.org/conf.html

Oh, and as far as the phone tapping, etc, whether it's legal or not, that is disgusting, and I would have no respect for a school that did that, nor would I give them any more of my money.

Re: Greek Life is Dead...
 

Wow! This sounds like stories I hear about the early members of Beta Theta Pi in the 1840's and 50's...Whole chapters were expelled rather than denounce their membership.

I'd never would have thought that would be possible in this day and age. :eek:

What school do you attend?

Have you tried to contact a laywer, ACLU or your national?
What did they say?

Take Pinky's advice contact your alums. (Oh, I think contacting your HQs for more info is extremely important as well as getting an atty to help out - perhaps an alum?!)

Private schools LIVE off of Alum Donations. The pretty flyers and brochures the University produces to send to alums for money is outrageous.

Get together with the other chapters - GREEK UNITY - and work on a mailing campaign to your alums explaining what's happening. Ask them to discontiue their donations until the administration sees the value of Greek Life. Look at the University's Board of Trustees - are there any Greeks on there? CONTACT THEM! Are there faculty and staff that are alums - find out what's REALLY behind this.

Then I have another idea. When you have your meeting with the other organizations - plan a HUGE philanthropy. Show the University the good that Greeks can do. Pick a charity near and dear to the University President's heart. (How do you do that? FInd someone that can chat with his/her secretary and and ask her what charity the President supports most.)

Feel free to ask anyone here at GC about popular Phils. I'm sure someone has a great one that will net that charity some bucks.

GOOD LUCK

My husband just suggested to attend the next Board of Trustees meeting and ask what their official opinion is on this subject. It might help to research and find out who on the Board is Greek prior to this. But all administration INCLUDING the President reports to the Board.

thanks
 

Thanks this is what greek life is all about helping each other out. Someone asked me where I went to school, Andrews University, and we already contacted nationals. Our national board is flying in to have a meeting over this over the November 22-24 weekend hope a lot of things are solved thanks again for all the replys I appreciate it.

Well, you can at least sue them for harassment!

-M

Ok I just visited your school's website. That is the first school's website that I been to that does NOT list campus activities under the Undergrad or Current Student section. That's a little alarming.

When applying to a school - I want to be a well-rounded student and that means not only thriving as a student, but also the learning experience of being involved in campus activities.

Being that your school is a Theological Seminary may have reasons behind their beliefs of Greek Organizations being the spawn of the devil. I'm neither advocating that religious organizations as a whole are against Greeks, nor am I saying that religious people are against Greeks - for I am an ordained Deacon, Sunday School Teacher, Youth Group Adviser, etc. - so I am truly a Christian who is also Greek. What I AM saying is that your original post makes more sense now.

HOWEVER, I still think you've gotten some great ideas in this thread - legal, alumnae and HQ. I think that trio will be the key to your success. Let us know how things go.

As a new Frosh at a school that not everyone went to from my area, I new nothing about the Greeks and could have cared less!

I met many there but did not pledge.

I pledge an underground Group, who I think became AKL!

Went to another school still not knowing to much about Greeks!

All Wanted to Pledge me. Pledged a local, go figure if you know me!

Got booted and started my own! The rest is History and am still involed with my Chaptrer and International since 1965!

Damn Proud to Say Yes, I am A MEMBER OF A GREEK ORG, Espc. LXA:)

NO MATTER WHAT, We as Greeks Are The BEST of the BEST!:cool:

Give me an A give me and R give me a SON

ARSON!

it is not...
 

Snowlady, Andrews is not just a theological seminary school!!! It just happens to have a seminary school as well as architecture, business, pre med, phsycology etc. So it is no way just a theology school.

Maybe are evil. Who in their right mind would accept our philanthropy. We are Greeks bearing gifts. People should be aware of this.

OMG, Greeks bearing gifts! That is hysterical!!!! :D

DO NOT forget about the importance of public relations!!!!! I am not a lawyer, so I cannot speak to the legality of your school's actions, but I do know that most schools will go out of their way to avoid bad publicity. Be sure to speak with the public relations reps from your national office about how to handle the PR strategy. I have found that many people are willing to back down from bad decisions (like your schools!) once they start getting a bit of bad press.

So I would say definitely bond together with the other Greek orgs on campus to present a united front. Compile as complete a list as possible of the things you are not allowed to do and the reasons you were given for the restrictions on your orgs. And when you contact alums, be sure to keep a running list of supportive alums who are in high profile positions -- the press is probably more likely to quote an "important" alum than just another member of the GLO.

I definitely agree with the suggestion to do a large-scale Greek philanthropy event. If your GLO has a PR rep, he or she can craft a press release to get the story out about the good things your organizations are doing. You definitely want to support a good cause, but in your case, you definitely need to get good PR from doing it.

If you can get some good press coverage about what your orgs are doing and what the school is doing to you, plus build a strong coalition of GLOs and alums, particularly those who have long supported the college, the school may be embaressed enough to back down. I hope so anyway!!!!

Keep us posted on your situation!

I dont like the idea of doing a huge philanthropy that might benefit someone that is trying to screw you over in the first place. These groups probably have been doing philanthropy all along and in return the school wants to get rid of them. Instead of philanthropy I think all the greeks should have a fundraiser and put the money towards a lawyer.

Checked out the web site...
 

Andrews is affiliated with the Seventh-Day Adventist church. Like any church, it's their right to believe that Greek membership is incompatible with membership in the school's religious community. Check out the rules in the student handbook:

http://www.andrews.edu/SS/Handbook20...Discipline.htm

Apparently, this school means business when it comes to establishing the boundaries of appropriate student activity as they define it. If these regulations were made known to the students prior to matriculation (since they're on the Web, it'd be hard to argue that they are hidden from students), then a lawyer can't do a thing to help the original poster...I just hope the school administration has some Christian charity toward him and his fellow Greeks.

33girl linked to a bill encouraging schools to respect students' freedom of association. In a head-to-head conflict between a Congressional recommendation and the Constitution, the Constitution wins. The school, which for constitutional purposes is a church, has an iron-clad freedom of religion argument here. That First Amendment argument is going to trump any right to associate. If a church kicks you out, for any reason, that's that. You can't appeal to anybody but God.

This doesn't sound like a school I'd like to attend, but they certainly aren't hiding the rules from prospective students. Excuse_3, was there some kind of silent understanding prior to this year that the no-Greeks rule would not be enforced?

Ivy, J.D.

Re: Checked out the web site...
 

But what happens when the school decides to change their own rules in midstream? Up until this year students were permitted to pledge and fraternities were permitted by the university. The existing members pledged with the consent of the university and were following the rules that existed at the time.

Re: Checked out the web site...
 

thanks for that site ivy! that is crazy, i had no idea that a university could get so involved in your life! madmax- based on the info on this site, it seems that the university could change their mind whenever they want! excuse, i am sorry that you have to deal with this. i have to admit, tho, that this made me glad that i eliminated any school that didn't have co-ed dorms or had rules about what time members of the opposite sex had to be out of your room!

Institutions like these do what they want to do.
 

At a religious affiliated institution, especially one as hard-core conservative as the Seventh Day Adventist's, there is virtually nothing you can do to oppose the administration. The only course of action that might have any impact would be for the Greeks to transfer in mass to other institutions (preferably public ones that cannot violate student's rights).

Im out
 

Im transfering out and going to a bigger and very PUBLIC university. Andrews is the worst thing that can ever happen to a collegiate human being. They don't say much about wearing jewelery because I wear earings, no one has ever said anything to me. That school is full of hypocritical Seventh-Day Adventists Nazis who think they can force whatever they want on students and personally I think the students let that crap happen. But in all honesty that school is so full of sh** because everything that they say they forbid in that handbook happens on an everyday basis. I know guys who have slept in the girls dorms adn visa/versa. Girls get pregnant every year people smoke drink in their rooms a couple of girls got raped last year, people dont go to chapel, people sell drugs on campus. And a lot of the kids are all either administations kids or members of the church. They don't let anybody be an individual and that doesnt help, but destroys peoples lives. And the one thing that is good like GLOs they are trying to take that away from the students. Sorry I am really upset right now.

Hopefully the school will put itself out of business with these repressive tactics. I feel like in a place like this where diversity is so discouraged you cannot get a good education. Good luck wherever you go. And good choice.

Thank you everybody for all your replies they have helped out a lot and I really appreciate it all.