Schools that (should) open for expansion
 

This is actually a followup to an irishpipes thread from a while back
https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=195512

If you were to pick a school that should open for expansion, who would you pick? Here's my list (I will note that schools that have opened recently, added a chapter within the last 4 years, or plan to open are not included.)

Colgate University (quote 60, last colony Tri Delta 1996)
University of Utah (quota 109, total 262, last colony Aphi 2012)
Georgia Southern University (quota 77, total 262, last colony Chi O 2016)

Also if there are potential hurdles to a school opening like needing a house and there not being land available, that can also be discussed in here.

A GSU sorority would have to find land to build a house and might struggle because they wouldn't be on Greek Row anyway. Also, they would have to put up with being the newest, therefore having to rush all the time. It's rough being the newest chapter on a Southern campus.

All this summer, media have explored and explained the Enrollment Cliff colleges will soon experience. Any upcoming expansions will need to include those thoughs.

I struggle to understand why some campus cultures are so brutal. It's a part of human nature to get caught up in a survival of the fittest mindset and a desire to be seen as the top. But man......some campus locations just eviscerate newer or smaller chapters.

About 7 years back at SDSU, we were dying over the gigantic pledge classes. At one point, our Gamma Phi Beta chapter was so huge that we had to purchase extra folding tables and chairs to set up in the *living room* just to make enough seats for all of the members for Monday night formal dinner. The girls were overwhelmed and we had members up to the rafters. We needed a new chapter on campus and we were relieved when one finally came on (DZ). We were GLAD to have that new chapter on campus!

The Chi O chapter is thriving at Southern, though. I personal know some parents of Chi O's active and alum from that chapter.

Well, let's just say they're not up there where they were before they folded. You have 4 entrenched chapters--ADPi, Phi Mu. KD, and Zeta.

There are spots there for someone who wants to join at Kappa. They're less than half the size of the other chapters.

And, as a DPhiE, trust me, this campus is HELL to establish on.

Wait, isn't recruitment a two-way decision process? I'm not a Kappa, but you don't know if Kappa may have chosen to formally recruit a smaller class due to PNMs not meeting Kappa standards.

I understand your not appreciating the GSU greek life culture due to the eventual failure of DPhiE's GSU chapter establishment. But chapter failures at that same level for similar reasons have occurred at NPC chapters elsewhere in the U.S, too.

"Greek Life culture"? You mean racism. People like to cover up GSU and its very apparent problem with racism. Getting called n*ggers and n*gger lovers = eventual failure. If you say it's a sore spot, that's the understatement of the century.

Thank you for outing the problem in GSU's Sorority Greek Life for those of us unaware.


While I am sorry DPhiE apparently experienced racism causing the closure of their GSU chapter, in my previous post I meant reasons for closure of a newer chapter that do NOT have to do with racism.



Lack Of Resources for any new NPC chapter anywhere can be reasons for a new chapter's closure.

There can be a lack of finances.

Some new chapters experience a lack of local alum personnel to properly assist the chapter.


A national exec board may have miscalculated their chances of new chapter success at a particular campus before agreeing to colonize. Not every NPC group has the money and personnel to open new chapters on every dream campus they wish to pursue.

It's possible a lack of help from a university itself occurs when said university suddenly pulls its promise to help the new chapter by refusing to provide promised university land, or other resources, for a new chapter's sorority house.



Importantly, not every PNM is open-minded enough to pursue The New NPC Group on campus, for whatever reason (other than race) they have in so doing.

And it is a shame some students will provide bad media to a newer NPC chapter.

This wasn't an attack on all schools, just GSU in particular. Our women had to stand so strong for years of abuse.

I agree with all the other issues.

Cheerio, I wouldn't say that Southern has a problem with Greek racism. I know this campus well. Six of my kids graduated from Southern and 4 were Greek. All their chapters had a fair amount of non-whites (this includes 2 of my own children).

You said: "Importantly, not every PNM is open-minded enough to pursue The New NPC Group on campus, for whatever reason (other than race) they have in so doing."

*This is it right here. I don't know a single national group that hasn't been affected by this, not just on Southern campuses but also at other Big Greek Schools because they're the newest chapter... considered by many to be the one who just takes who they can get. Many PNMs/rushees don't want to be in these groups because people run them down and they don't want other kids--INCLUDING independents--laughing at them.*

Amen and amen, Carnation.

The University of Kentucky.

I'd add University of Kansas, but that may be impossible.

Throwing in LOL the University of Colorado.

University of Arizona should open, but again housing is the elephant in the room

No. No one else needs to make the same mistake we did.

I will bring up a few that (could) open depending on trends and overall #'s

Ole Miss (yes A Chi O just came on but they are quickly catching up and total is currently 615!!!)
Sacred Heart University
Mississippi State University
Clemson University
Cornell (though Phi Sig just left they are already looking at if a chapter will need to be added)

University of Arizona is one that I totally have as one that should open, but hearing about how tough the housing situation is, it might not happen.

SIX HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN??!?! Initiation must take forever! If total is 615, quota has got to be somewhere north of 150. If you added up the membership of every NPC chapter at my alma mater, you wouldn't even get close to 615. Then again, MIT isn't Ole Miss.

Edit: Just tripped over this year's Ole Miss recruitment thread. AOII got 279 new members. Yowza.

That is my whole claim to them expanding at some point :eek: I feel like especially with huge NMC like that and seeing AXO get to total at some point, they might do it. They have many they could bring back (ZTA,Theta,DZ,AXiD) but we'll see what happens.

There are a couple of impediments to expansion at Ole Miss.
1. History of bullying "lower ranked" groups. Theta closed even though quotas at the time were over 100. I heard that Zetas suffered a similar fate (though quotas were not nearly so high.)
2. Sororities have houses in two streets. Having a chapter house on the other side of campus might not work out. Currently there is no more room, unless the university would build parking structures where large surface lots are to free up space. (Alabama did this to accommodate the new mega houses there. (Also note, it seems the all chapters must have new mega mansions trend has hit Ole Miss, so a new NPC group would have to build big.

You are right on all points, yet ADPi successfully recolonized. Of all the groups bullied to death, only Theta was in the post-RFM era. Also, there are so many more students at Ole Miss now from all over the Southeast and even Ohio, Illinois, etc., as opposed to the days when it was more insular. If they can come up with land for houses, I'd be hopeful that new/returning groups would have a shot.

I find the Alabama houses quite overwhelming from the street; they give steroids/Disneyland to me. The redone KD, DDD, DG, and Chi O houses at Ole Miss, by contrast, do a great job of disguising their bulk and giving more of a classic feel. (KKG is a little more Bama-ish to my eye.)

I still remember when NPC called in every chapter on campus to tell everyone "stop bullying and being nasty to one another." Aphi and ADPi have done well and AXO is doing well so far.

Also, and this is somewhat related, more people are going to college in the south overall, as people want the big SEC experience and greek life.

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/educatio...h-now-235d7934

Sometimes when posters say "chapter ABC is doing well". they don't know the whole story.

Look at enrollment numbers (and recruitment ones) at Alabama after each NC with Saban. increases each year. It's party time in the south....

Ole Miss, Bama, and Arkansas should open. Their chapters are extremely large. As LowD and Cookiez mentioned, so many people are coming from all across the US and are open minded to different orgs. There is really no "old row" anymore.

Arkansas I wouldn't ATM as Aphi just got there and will need a bit of time to catch up and get their house. Same for Ole Miss and AXO but I feel like it'll be a lot sooner than we think.

Bama is a bit more complex. Sigma Kappa's house is delayed, so they're going to be in the extra house for the time being. Once that's built I'm not sure who would potentially colonize there if they opened. It would be a major investment as you 100% need a big house. The other thing is Bama also has a ton of chapters there already. The only one I can currently picture if it happened is maybe AXID, as they just got to Georgia recently. Or if Sigma Delta Tau goes back to the row and reorganizes, but I doubt they wanna do that.

Intriguing. We'd love to learn more of the story. The public info does make clear that the newer chapters at Ole Miss have much lower GPAs, though the chapter sizes are pretty strong. The GPA contrast is not so dramatic at Alabama or Arkansas.

I think I’ve posted on here about this book on here before…Jana Mathews’ book The Benefit of Friends has a whole chapter on the University of Arkansas and how, in general, large southern schools have really increased in both the amount of students and the quality of the applicant pool, over the past two decades. A big part of the appeal is in the “fun & Greek Life” experience.

There are a few other books that discuss this, but they’re not worth mentioning since most do so with a really biased, almost nasty undertone. It is ironic that the authors are on such a high horse, considering the lack of quality writing in their own books.

Sometimes we see posts that say, "Woo! ABC, the newest chapter, is doing so well at Whatever U!" People who know the campus know that ABC may have pledged 75 and then lost 20 in the first 2 weeks and 25 more before initiation--and that member retention overall is horrendous. They may also know that the chapter's grades are far below others or that few members show up at functions.

I have never heard if a school that publishes retention rates but low ones a real thing.

Retention rates are rare to see. Usually with greek life reports it'll have the chapter total and how many new members the chapter got. Chapter GPA too of course.

That struck me as well. I evacuated to Tuscaloosa after Ida, and made a point of taking a drive around campus, and those houses are huge. They also struck me as pretty cookie-cutter for the most part - the house that stuck out to me was Phi Mu. It also struck me that if an NPC sorority were to colonize, where would they even put a house?

That's just physical infrastructure. I didn't go into any of the houses or talk to any members. If AEPhi still had a chapter there, I might have knocked on their door, but that chapter is dormant, and in any case recruitment had just ended and everyone was gearing up for football season.

the Phi Mu house is a larger version of their original house....back when all were very different. They didn't want to build new but did when they were certain they could reuse the style. There are a couple of houses right now from the old rows that are "swing"houses - used for groups who want to rebuild or add on/renovate - fraternities included. Since it is UA land, they just hold on to them. That land could be used. And there is an old dorm to the southeast of the DG house that could torn down as well.

Yes. Tri Delta is my favorite of the new houses for that reason. Points to Chi Omega for being the only organization that preserved its original house as part of the rebuild.

If a new chapter is going to be automatically shunned by PNMs, what possesses a greek council and/or University that knows this to open their campus in the first place?

When a new chapter's grades are poor and members unmotivated, is that strictly a result of poor choice of new members by the colonizing NPC? Or does some blame go to a greek life/university that opened to a new group knowing the PNM pool was likely not up to snuff?

Well via the 2024/5 colony thread, Utah and Clemson have opened up for expansion. I wasn’t expecting Clemson to open up so soon.

What possesses them? Some people deal in fantasy instead of reality and believe all the kum ba ya we're all Greek and equal line. Either that or the school is being pressured by parents whose daughters were cut (of course the daughters never tell the parents that they refused to consider anything but "top" chapters and behaved accordingly) and basically forces the Panhel to open.

Personally I believe that groups that start as locals on their own steam are more motivated and probably don't have the grade/motivation issues, but then the nationals come in and want to cherry pick members. You can't have it both ways.

I think about that great Carnegie Mellon expansion story on here and how the one group (that if you read between the lines was the most nationally prestigious) basically didn't vibe with the local or its members at all, but wanted to take them on just to have a chapter there - and would most likely have made things so uncomfortable for the women that they would have quit.

I remember hearing a story about how my group and another group let's call AB were 2 of the 3 finalists to start a new colony at a prestigious school. This story, told to me by one of our extension specialists, involved all 3 groups getting to campus and 2 of them realizing that no way did they want these really strange birds wearing their pins. (I don't remember details now but these college women were bizarre. Think of the Weird Rush Stories thread.)

Anyway, the groups put their heads together and AB decided to act all ditzy and blonde at the presentations. I forget how my group acted but it was designed to be off-putting. The third group didn't care if they were weird as long as they could get a chapter there so they acted normal, and they were selected.

I have no idea if that chapter still exists.

After Sigma Delta Tau firmly establishes their newer (2022) chapter, Florida Atlantic University appears from their Fall 2024 Primary Recruitment Numbers to have enough student interest to once again Open For Expansion.

I hope the University of Florida opens for extension. I know the university raised the percentage of out of state students accepted in the last few years.

Can you please point the Carnegie Mellon expansion story out for me please?