Reducing barriers to GLO membership
 

I know many of us have seen changes within GLOs to make membership more inclusive and reducing barriers to potential membership, some of those general changes to some groups included removing legacy policies, and opening up the pool of membership to others who might have been previously excluded because of sexual orientation, gender identity, race/ethnicity etc...

Now I know there are differing opinions on these matters but I've been hearing talk in my circles that now GPA is a barrier to membership and perhaps there is a shift towards eliminating a GPA requirement?

I'm all for making Greek life more representative of the general population but honestly I just feel like throwing out a GPA requirement just seems a bit much, I'd be curious to see if others have been seeing anything similar or what thoughts the chorus might have.

Dropping the GPA requirement makes me throw up. Why are the kids in college anyway? Why have all the GLOs had GPA requirements through the years and they're suddenly dropping them? Who's fired up about having members who can barely stay in school because their grades suck because they live at the bar?

Seems like some people think Greeks should have quotas of various subgroups and that is revolting too...forced association, anyone?

Yeah I agree, with the whole GPA thing, I just sort of feel like its going to backfire for a variety of reasons 1. potential risk mgmt issues especially if the person is partying vs. going to class 2. even if you eliminate the GPA barrier as you mentioned Carnation lets say that person gets booted from school, you're still losing a member and 3. I just feel like removing the GPA requirement is a bit extreme. I'm not in agreement even within the discussions I've been hearing, I just don't understand why some might think this is a good idea.

Our founders, collectively, are rolling in their graves. andthen I'm going to withhold further judgement because you're reporting talk in your circles and nothing official - yet - correct? If not, *gulp*.

For the love of Mike, PNMs KNOW going into NPC recruitment what the "stakes" are in terms of joining. I daresay it's true for NPHC groups, from what my NPHC friends have shared with me in terms of their values. My own organization was founded on scholarship principles back in 1870. I took pride in my chapter having the highest GPA on my campus.

Big barrier to membership that I see is the financial cost, especially now. Let's discuss that, people in decision-making positions.

OPINION: I predict the demise of the Greek system (as I knew it) in my lifetime. Have had this discussion privately with a variety of NPC women who concur. You can't be all things to all people. Life doesn't work like that.

PS "judgment" is also acceptable spelling. I checked.

The national Greek system nationwide is probably going to end up like a house system or like at that one Pentecostal school where everyone is in a group.

Meanwhile, there will probably be locals running underground everywhere.

What I would really hate to see is forced pledging, as some of you might recall from a certain college I worked at. One year, there was a place for everyone who rushed and I don't care what the college spouted about recruiting the cream of the crop...they most certainly did not in several cases. Let's just say that many things did not get out to the media about students who were quietly removed from campus.

I've said it before...removal of recs is causing sororities to draw inwards and rely more on recruiting women they know because who wants to take a chance on an unknown woman? Yeah, she might have fabulous grades and activities but she might also be a vicious drama queen, flaming racist, major ho, or um...a fighter. Those of us who have been in Greek life for a long time have a ton of horror stories, and mostly because groups took girls they didn't check out first.

Horrible idea. I swear, every year we just get further and further away from the idea that college exists to provide an education.

Another thing: financial barriers.

The only way I see to make this fair is to cut costs across the board. We are a very large middle class family and most of our children went Greek. I have seen people "demand" that Greeks give out full fraternity and sorority scholarships so that anyone can join. Are you kidding? Do these people even comprehend the sacrifices that families like ours made so that our children could join Greek life and other activities?

I can see this going down this road: in the past 20 years or so, local elementary schools majorly jacked up the price of field trips so that people who could supposedly afford it were paying for kids who couldn't afford it to go. Here's how it ended up--with the jacked up prices, few kids signed up. There were also a lot of parents who claimed their kids should go free when we all knew they were living pretty good lives.

The end result was that few if any field trips were happening.

Regarding GLO membership requirements:

Removing GPA requirements is lowering a standard toward membership. Removing barriers should not involve lowering standards.

Carefully and slowly cutting some costs is removing barriers without necessarily lowering a standard.

Another thought on elimination of barriers: Might the complete elimination of housing, by greek groups least able to afford it, become a standard that strengthens or weakens interest in said groups?

Each current NPC group began over 100 years ago. Perhaps allegedly disenfranchised students, desiring but not receiving 'important' GLO membership and privileges, might build and create their own GLOs and attempt to grow them and successfully persevere over the next century, as our own GLO founders achieved.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Are you advocating something like "separate but equal"?

Excellence - in scholarship, in conduct, in integrity - must be the bare minimum, but "go build your own"???

What am I missing?

Suggesting people start new sororities doesn’t have to be a bad thing? Who says they wouldn’t be equal? Are NPC sororities the standard that all sororities should aspire to? Not necessarily. NPHC sororities got started after a lot of NPC, and look at where they are now. My own sorority started 60 years ago because the women wanted a different experience and wanted to run their group by their own rules. I think that is similar to a lot of women now. If you don’t want exactly what NPC has to offer, start your own group as opposed to joining an organization that’s over 100 years old and trying to change how it operates.

Hear, hear!

AMEN.
If the Greek system dies, another system will take its place by another name: Study group, book club, friendship circle, prayer caucus, whatever.
It's just human nature.

A few of the chapters I work with directly have said that IF our organization removed nationally defined GPA minimums (hasn't happened yet), they would simply keep a GPA minimum that is comparable to the other sororities at their universities. Even now, many of those GPA requirements are higher than what ASA has set.

Obviously, I can't speak for everyone, but I see my collegiate sisters striving for excellence. I was just reviewing end-of-year reports today for one of my chapters, and I see far more success than failure! They aren't going to suddenly stop caring because a number provided by a national office was removed. Many of them aren't using that number anyway!

What about students that self-identify as being on the Dean's List?

Absolutely loving this!!

Just curious, are there organizations out there that *prohibit* their chapters from setting GPA requirements either above the national GPA requirements or higher than a specific GPA?

I don't know but I can see NPC or various sororities dropping GPAs and then continuing to have grade competitions or even penalizing chapters who don't have a certain GPA.

Along those lines, a Facebook group for PNM moms NOT at a specific college just posted something interesting.
Her daughter is going to a big university in the Northwest United States.
PANHELLENIC put this "disclaimer" in the registration materials.
<
"DISCLAIMER: The University of *State* Panhellenic Executive Board does not encourage the use of letters of recommendation or legacy status. We believe that the use of these resources creates an expectation that a PNM is guaranteed certain privileges during the recruitment process, when that is not true. Additionally, the use of these resources creates an added barrier to certain PNMs. The Panhellenic Executive Board acknowledges and does not condone the historic practices that have excluded women of color, those with physical limitations, those with different preferred pronouns, women of a lower socioeconomic status, etc. The use of resources such as legacy status or letters of recommendation perpetuates these exclusive practices, as they give preferential treatment in the recruitment process. The Panhellenic Executive Board strives to achieve a fully equitable Recruitment Process by not encouraging the use of these resources. The University of *State* Panhellenic Association practices a values-based recruitment process, which prioritizes getting to know PNMs personally, and not relying on information from outside sources that would be submitted through letters of recommendation.
If you are still interested in submitting a letter of recommendation or your legacy status, please see the following links....."
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I mean.....how dare they dictate what every group does?

That makes me throw up.

NPC knows full well that sororities will pledge who they want. Many groups at many schools have their preferred first bid list made out as I write this. If they happen upon some unknown who sounds wonderful on paper, you better believe they'll look into her any way they can. Who wants to risk getting a psycho PNM--and if you don't think they exist, read the Weird Rush Stories thread. Does NPC really think that the sororities won't investigate the PNMs before recruitment?

Nope, 'cause NPC only wants to look woke.

I agree. That would happen initially.

What about 10 years from now; when grades are no longer considered a barrier. Or when minimums are removed, so gradually more and more grade risks are chosen?

I would be the alum who questioned a PNM why she was in college anyway if she brought a 1.75 out of high school into recruitment. Who would want a woman who doesn't know how to study? How did she even get into college? Sounds like a dream sister!

Ditto

For decades, the recommendation system helped sift through PNMs with bad grades, questionable reputations, and poor scholarship. Do we really need to disable this on a large scale?

When I was in ROTC, we had a cadet who badly wanted to contract but wasn’t able to due to grades. At first I felt kind of bad…until I found out the minimum was a 2.0! And she didn’t have a difficult major or some extenuating circumstances. If your GPA is in the 1s, additional activities are not a good idea!

As someone said, if your GPA is something like that, you should be pledging the library instead of a greek org.

On the contrary, best CYA ever. If they really believed all that bs, they wouldn’t include the links to make sure the recs get to the proper place.

Or when Edie who knows all the sisters has a 2.4 and the minimum is 2.5. “Well for Edie? She’s practically a sister already! We’ll waive it, just this once. Nationals will be ok with it.”

Next rush: “Brenda won’t accept our bid if we don’t take Donna and Kelly too and we REALLY want Brenda. Their grades aren’t that big of a deal.”

It’s a slippery slope.

So much of this is a slippery slope!

Well, see, the girls think that they can decree it, and are not corrected of their delusions by the Greek life advisor (who undoubtedly doesn't know a CPC can not dictate a sorority's membership criteria), and the PNMs and their parents have no clue about any of this, so they believe it.

This ranks right up there with the perpetual myth that if you SIP the computer spits out your bid card and you don't get a bid.

So the first time I read this, I read it as the GREEK LIFE OFFICE does not “…. encourage the use of letters of recommendation… “ because I wanted to read it that way I guess. But it’s the PANHELLENIC EXECUTIVE BOARD—young sorority women. I thought WTF??
Why would sorority women publish a narrative that’s at best misleading and is sure to cause disappointment and even bitterness during recruitment?

Why not word it differently, something like “….while letters of recommendation are certainly not required, any sorority alumna is still free to submit one to her particular chapter on the behalf of a PNM…”. or something like that?

I taught freshman comp. on the college level and heard and saw many animated conversations between young PNM’s regarding their experience during after recruitment…both positive and negative. As flawed our current fraternity world is, I was grateful that our rush is much more simple and drama-free!

Please see my post above yours.

FSUZeta—Yep, I was responding to the original post and—alas—had not read every reply. And you’re right, the Greek Life Advisor probably does not understand or does not care about going afoul of each sorority’s membership guidelines. She (or he) wants EVERYBODY to get a bid; therefore, EVERYBODY will wind up happy, right?

None of this bodes well for the future of Greek Life period. Your take is right on. And I wonder if those 2 or 3 pandemic years of virtual rush and “online” bidding and even initiation helped to erase the importance of recommendations as well as the emphasis on scholarship and moral standing. Time will tell…

Let me clarify this for y’all.

The Greek/Panhellenic advisor is more than likely being forced by the school into publishing this on the website, as are the exec board. To make everything seem more diverse, equitable and inclusive. :rolleyes:

If they really believed this and really didn’t want recs, they wouldn’t publish the addresses of where to send/email recs. They would make doing that as difficult as possible.

The funny thing is placements rates are already pretty high. I had seen that Ole Miss, which is considered a super competitive SEC school, had a 95% rate, and other schools have similar in the 80-90's. They even say getting completely dropped is uncommon as is, and it will most likely be grades that get you cut.

I would like to know the retention rates (even just for first year students) for these high-placement schools. Several women have told me in recent years that they felt heavily pressured not to SIP and then when they got bids they didn't want, not to walk out of Bid Day or refuse their bids.

How many unhappy NMs don't even make it to initiation?

THIS!!

That goes back to the national organizations. There are always awards for making quota and/or total, but I have yet to hear of a GLO that gives awards for retention, either till the end of pledging or till the end of members’ college careers.

This would be well mentioned to each GLO, as it's more important to retain membership than to bid 1,000 women.