Question about Rec Ltrs
 

Hi,
I'm new to the entire process. My daughter is going to be a PNM this fall at a BigXII school - she's getting all the rec ltrs for each sorority and is only missing two but believes she'll get those this week.

Q: Do you ever really know the rec letter (RIF) was sent? Everyone she's talked to (and they've all be so kind and receptive) and sent her resume, pics and transcript at times, has said, "great, thank you for the info., I'll send the rec letter for you." BUT, and this is just the professional mom in me, she never gets a confirmation it was actually sent. Only one person came back around with an email and said, "just letting you know, I sent your rec ltr."

I'm not saying they don't send them, but we all know that sometimes we say we're going to do something, and then get sidetracked with life, procrastinate a little and then next thing you know a week or so passes or you forget.

I wish there was some way to check that a letter was sent and received without compromising the process. That's all. I would hate for her to go through all this thinking all the houses received rec letters and maybe some didn't.

Thoughts??? (Just being overly cautious)

There's really nothing you can do with that. It's hard to trust your rec writers but you pretty much have to.

This is a very strange year for recs, as many/most of the sororities have changed the way that they are handled. I do understand your concern. FWIW, I usually let each PNM know when I've completed her rec.

Unfortunately, I let them know I'm working on it because I don't have enough information to complete the rec. It does give the rec writer a glance at how the PNM reacts under pressure!

Thanks for the reply. I know it's recommended that if you can't find a member of a specific sorority to write a rec letter, to reach out the local area's alumnae chapter. Today was the first time she was turned away by the local alumnae chapter. They said they can't do rec letters unless the candidate actually knows a member of their sorority. She's just going to pass on getting one for this sorority unless something comes up between now and end of July.

Not mad - I get it. They all have different rules they follow for their chapters.

Someone suggested awhile back sending thank you notes or emails to the rec writers. That way, if they hadn't done it, it jogged their memory and if they had, it was a courteous followup.

Well, it's getting pretty bad with people trying to get recs from strangers and then the reason is often that nobody who knows the girl will rec her because she's really evil.

I just got a request today from someone who lives 3 hours away from me. I'm just so curious about that, because we do have alumnae in that area, so I'm not sure why she couldn't meet someone local to her. She contacted the Alumnae Panhellenic president in our town who gave her the contact information for the presidents of 5 different organizations - like a clearing house. Curious. On paper she looks amazing, and I'll be happy to talk with her, but I'll definitely be making it clear when I submit my notes that I do not know her personally. Every organization is different about who can write in support of a PNM. I know my org will take information from anyone - it's no longer really a recommendation letter for us - so I'm going to suggest that she find someone who knows her personally in her hometown to send information in, too, not just me.

AZ-Alpha Xi - that's a good idea.
Run262 - if there is a specific deadline, be sure to mention that to the rec writers.

I haven't written a rec in quite a while. When I was President of my local alumnae chapter I wrote several, but I ALWAYS noted that all information was based on the resume presented by the PNM and a short face to face meeting and that I did not know the girl personally. All but one of these short interviews were conducted 2-3 days before the deadline set by the collegiate chapter to receive recs.

DaffyKD

Has she asked the women who have agreed to send a rec if they know anyone in that group - or the other one she still needs? That's perfectly OK to do. Greek women know other Greek women and can vouch for you!

Is there an Alumnae Panhellenic chapter in her area? I would ask the PNM if she had reached out to her own town's alumnae panhellenic first and, if so, what was the result of it. I might even contact them to see if she did. If she's reaching out to people 3-hours away, that likely means she didn't get the recs she needed near her. I'm curious about why. (ie. she has a poor rep in town and that's why no one in her town will write her one.)

Overall, though, I wonder if we might see a little bit of a passive revolt from some alumnae panhellenics. Since some GLOs have changed policies so that now anyone (member or not) can write a rec for a PNM, then there's no need for an alumna to go to the trouble of doing one for someone she doesn't even know. That might explain the "we don't write recs for people we don't know" response Run262's daughter received.

When that has happened to me, I try to contact a sorority sister that does live in the same town as the PNM and ask her to meet with the girl and possibly write her a rec.

Yes, good suggestions, Navane & FSUZeta. I agreed to speak with her before I realized she was across the state. I just talked with her last night and realized that since she just moved here from another state, the alumnae in her town wouldn't know her any better than I do.

I did pass along another PNM to a different alumnae Chapter just as you describe. It works well.

Titchou also had a good suggestion to ask the women who already wrote recs to see if they know someone from the missing org. It's surprising how connected we all are - especially those involved not just in their own Alumnae org but also in the Alumnae Panhellenic groups.

I do the same. When I've received confirmation from Delta Gamma that my online recommendation was submitted, then I typically send and email or text to the PNM.


Run262-Good luck to your daughter!

There are only, to my knowledge, one sorority, Phi Mu, that has done away with recs entirely. Four more (that I'm aware of) have opened recs to non-members - Alpha Gamma Delta, Gamma Phi Beta, Kappa Alpha Theta, and Sigma Sigma Sigma.
The rest still want member-signed recs.
I will say, I run 3 sorority parent groups and the requests for "stranger recs" has run rampant, especially this year. We have rules against them but we couldn't keep up. I finally resorted to, after an overall warning, shutting down comment on each request. When I'd find one from someone in a heavily-GLO area, such as Dallas or Atlanta, I'd kind of take a fit on them and tell them they were surrounded by sorority women if they'd just get off their rears and ask around, and to reach out to sorority alumnae groups in their area.

But to refuse, for the entire group, to write one unless they know you? That's pretty rude.

Tri Delta interest form
 

Tri Delta now has an interest form. It's something a PNM fills out. It is something they introduced around the same time they eliminated legacy preference in recruitment. I believe it is to give PNMs that are unable to get a reference from an alumnae member the ability to introduce themselves to the chapter. (Technically - there is no such thing as a "recommendation" in Tri Delta. They are "references." I believe the distinction is, or at least was, important to the founders. They were intended to be an introduction to the chapter. The distinction has always been stressed)

From the national website:
"Joining Tri Delta – Bring You!
Women are encouraged to participate in the recruitment processes as determined by our host institutions.

Tell us about you – What are you passionate about? What makes you, you? We invite you to complete this form so we can learn a little more about you!"

And Delta Gamma's was originally "sponsor form." And that distinction was important to our founders as more personal and definitive.

As I think about this, what I'm primarily reading is a concern that No Recs will not be possible if anybody can write a rec. Concerns that bad apples will get through? Is that an accurate assessment? Wouldn't that kind of communication still be possible? How often do chapters get those? If they got conflicting recs from different alumnae, was there a process to deal with that? What if there were 4 glowing and 1 "no way"? I honestly don't know how those situations were handled or how often they happened because the schools I worked with most closely rarely ever saw a rec, except for legacies, most of the time. I never in my 30 years of volunteering saw a No Rec come in.

This raises another question in my mind.

If some sororities require rec letters for everyone (and I've written in the past how my chapter pencil-whipped them), but other sororities didn't, is there any evidence at all that the one which requires recs is in any way stronger or better or more "anything" than one that doesn't? Do we have any data at all? Sure, membership selection may consider (and I neither know nor care about someone's processes) the information on it against some set of measures, but certainly the hundreds of recs some places process makes this a cursory standard at best.

In my opinion, the only valuable rec is a "no" rec.

These are good points. I don't think we've seen a higher number of "Rotten Apple" members who would have been pre-identified by a No Rec, if recs were the norm around here. If we compared chapters in geographic areas where recs are de rigueur, to those where they're rarely seen, is there a statistical difference in the number of member terminations, standards hearings, etc.? In other words, do recs as pre-screening tools lead to fewer membership issues? Obviously, we have geographic areas where there hasn't been a drive to encourage them, and my feeling is that they're more of a tradition in certain areas than in others...and that many, many chapters that rarely see a rec are doing just fine without them. My two cents.

In my decades of writing recs I have written a few no recs - maybe 3-4. All were definitely deserved and I was called on all of them to verify. One of them came thru twice.
As a recruitment adviser I had several good recs and a no on a girl one time. I called the no rec and eventually tossed it after the convo. Seems the families were next door neighbors who didn't get along for a reason that had nothing to with whether the girl would be a good member. it was all about the adults and not the girl.

Back in the dark ages when I was an active collegiate member, we received 1 No Rec for a girl. The sister who wrote it was very detailed why she said No. There was a long list of problems and then she ended with, "and you should also be aware she is awaiting trial for attempted murder." Our collective questions was why wasn't she in jail and what was the school thinking letting her attend.


DaffyMom

These days, googling her would probably give you that info! But I suspect those were the dark ages that didn't include the Internet!

Bumped for interesting conversations on recs.

To me, it's a red flag when someone from a city with an alum group reaches out that far. But most kids have no idea there's an alum group of anything in there town. I'd send her back to her hometown alum group.
Now, that group that won't write one without knowing here....I understand, but it wouldn't take much effort to inquire among one's friends and find someone who does know her. If I can find someone who knows the candidate and will be candid about their opinion, and I trust them, that's good enough for me.
That's how I write my recs because, at my age, I RARELY know any of the PNMs from my town.

In almost 50 years, I've written maybe 6 or 7 "no" recs.
But I've seen more when a bad apple could have been prevented from joining if the chapter had bothered to even half-heartedly tried to find a rec. Like the girl who stabbed another member...lots of info available....but there's always the girl who comes in with sterling recs and proceeds to attempt to bed the entire football team, and brags about it. No alum saw that coming.
Even with recs, you don't know, but it's still worth the effort.

I've spoken about this before here, but my daughter and I were camp counselors years ago and there was a counselor who slapped the assistant director in the face and then dragged her nails on her. She later asked my daughter and me for rush recs!! :(

We no-recced her so fast, with details. The rec chairman of my daughter's group called our house for her but she wasn't there. She asked me to thank her because they had run a police check on the girl and she had a record for assault. (I guess the Scouts didn't check.)

Epilogue: the girl didn't get a bid and freaked out and the college president pressured the only group who didn't make quota to take her. A year later, another daughter was trying out for the dance line at that college and we asked one of the current members if they knew Mean Girl. She said yep, her group had been forced to pledge her, and she was kicked out a few weeks later for attacking another member.

And that, folks, is why we need no-recs.

But allowing recs from others does not preclude you writing a no-rec for someone like that. Even when you wrote that no-rec, the person may have received multiple positive recs from people who didn't know about that specific incident.

There are chapters that don't allow any recs now, positive or negative. Of course, it has all just gone underground and people text each other.

All you can do is put the info into the chapter's hands.
What they do after that is their decision.

I would love an updated list of who is doing what...traditional forms, self introductions, references/introduction forms from anyone including non-members, etc. I just got my first rec request tonight, and it's apparent that well-intentioned mom is about 2 years out of date on the current expectations/rec processes and isn't aware there have been changes for many groups.

I can see how one might think something is up if a girl asks for a rec from out of town. I can tell you here in Naples, the Alumnae Panhellenic is not at all supportive of recs. They remain in their little "ladies lunch" bubble and do nothing with the community. They do offer some small scholarships for girls who will be rushing, which always blew my mind. It seemed to me it would make more sense to support girls who are members of sororities, rather than girls who might or might not pledge. A sorority sister and I offered to start a recruitment workshop outreach program for the AP and were shot down.
So maybe the 3 hours away PNM encountered a local Alumnae Panhellenic similar to the one here in Naples. In that instance, I might share the name of a sorority sister in her city that she could reach out to.

The only one I've found who isn't taking any kind of rec at all is Phi Mu.
I posted a list, which may or may not be totally accurate, on Facebook on the Alabama Sorority Recruitment Parents page, in the FiLES section. You'll have to request to join.

Something that reminded me of my age today:

I recall (mumble) years ago sending an informational sorority recruitment rec, for a woman I personally knew, directly to the greek life office of a major university. This was done because our NPC had no chapter at said school, and this rec would thus be made available to every greek group on campus that went to their greek life office and looked at it (some may have had a policy never to read unsolicited/non-member written recs).

I imagine with the explosion of social media that what I did back then is unheard of and unnecessary today.