Pledging by Non-Citizens
 

I pledged my house as a just-naturalized American citizen and was the only person in my 12-person pledge class who was not natural born (and the only one as far as anyone could remember). Has anyone else experienced this and was there a gap in cultural context and familiarity between you and your pledge brothers (or sisters) due to your lack of "baseline" knowledge of the Greek system?

My experience is now a decade out of date so I imagine things have changed considerably but I'd be curious about the experiences of others.

That is an interesting question. I hope someone can weigh in with their perspective.

Sorry, can't respond, on ignore (which I'd forgotten about, thanks Benzgirl).

We had a Japanese national in our pledge class--or very near. He was only active about a year, but we still keep in touch. Awesome guy. When I was serving as adviser, we had a Rwandan pledge. It didn't work out. I saw a Saudi going through rush once, but I don't know how that turned out. And we did have a very active member from Indonesia. In all cases, it was pretty awesome to exchange cultures.

We had a foreign national in our chapter. English born but her father worked for Marathon Oil and lived in several places around the world based on where he was assigned at that time. While living in the Middle East, she attended Western schools.

After graduation, she remained in the United States and eventually became a citizen. I can't say there was much culteral difference other than she was much more worldly that the rest of us. My neighbors at home were Egyption and I had an introduction to Middle Eastern food, so I could always count on Cassie to help me seek out foods of different nationalities off-campus.

I'm still in contact with her through Facebook and sometimes see her at fund raisers. She is a self employed consultant, never married and lives a similar life as I.

One of the chapters of Alpha Phi Omega that I worked with occasionally as an alumnus had a pledge who was *from* greece.

Did his best to pronounce letters the way that the American Fraternity system does, didn't succeed all the time. He indicated as a brother that he'd figured out "certain things" prior to initiation but didn't say anything prior, so that didn't affect his pledge class. Got the feeling he was bemused by some things involved.

I was on the advisory board of my son's Sig Ep chapter and the chairman was this wonderful English alum of the chapter.

One of our former exchange students (Hong Kong) wants to pledge when she comes to college in the US next fall. I'll do everything I can to help her get a bid--she would be a fantastic member.

We had a DACA student in the chapter. She had been in the country for a while so there was no real issue with the culture.

The chapter also had a British exchange student once. I believe the culture exchange was great. The chapter was able to learn about the English culture and she was able to learn about New Mexico/US culture.

Another Carnation Nation!

Woot!!

When I was in college (many decades ago), our chapter had two sister's who became naturalized citizens, I believe it was while the younger one was still a pledge. (The older sister was three years older. The family had immigrated from Latin America when the sisters were young.) I know that in the last decade, undergrad foreign students have become quite normal, so my collegiate chapter has had several non-US members.

My alma mater has a pretty big International population (~15-20%) so there are a lot of those students in greek life. There were at least 2-3 in a chapter any given year. My husband was born in one country, raised in another, and a citizen of yet another and we met through our respective chapters. The biggest difference for him was slang, a good portion of the common slang used in his secondary school was offensive here in the states. It took some time and “light bullying” (his words) to adapt to American culture.

I advised a chapter in FLorida that had several members originally from Central and South America. Most had been in the US since they were small children so were adapted to American culture

My pledge class had a sister that was an American citizen but had not lived in the US until she attended college. Her father was a diplomat and she was raised in China and Vietnam. Culturally, she adapted exactly as everyone else, but then, all but one person in my chapter was a first-generation greek.

Our chapter had two members who had been Cuban refugees as little children and became citizens. We also had a Canadian sister. This was of course in the late 60's/early 70's and it wasn't even thought of as a big deal. They were just three great girls who were good members and representatives of our chapter. End of story.

Great story! Thanks for sharing!

In an earlier post, you mentioned attending University of Washington. Tell us of your experience at the school.

Sure! What would you like to know?

• Why did you decide on UW?
• Years you attended and the Campus culture
• Did you stay all 4 years?
• How did the education environment differ from that of your homeland?
• How you adjusted to the relatively liberal Northwestern United States with your ultra-conservative views
• Were you more or less combative in your homeland?
• What was your major and why did you choose it?
• Where did you move after leaving or graduating?
• I'm very curious how you became so confrontational. Is it genetic, environmental or by program. You know, the basics.

?

With respect, I don't think these questions were posed in good faith. Particularly this dog whistle.

If I've done something that has upset you I apologize, but could you please limit your ongoing insults to PMs? That way only I will have to receive them and threads can remain on topic. Thank you, in advance, for your kind consideration of my request.

Best regards,
R

academic program

Five years; I didn't attend the UW as an undergrad.

I have a fairly progressive worldview and, in any case, I find most well-adjusted humans are interested in interacting with people as living individuals and not amorphous ideological units.

In general — at least within the circles in which I typically move — there is a high level of intellectual curiosity, versus intellectual morbidity, and a polite respect for different viewpoints. I find that to be as true in the Pacific Northwest as anywhere (though I haven't spent much time in some regions of the United States so perhaps that's, sadly, not as true elsewhere).

I currently split my time between Seattle and Boston.

If you don’t like her posts, put her on ignore. As for threads, they go where they go. If you feel like yelling “stay on topic” there are still a couple Presidential debates that need a moderator.

After the last round of personal attacks I indicated my intent to quit and was personally asked by a "super mod" to remain and give it another chance, which I did. Despite continued, relentless insults, I have maintained a cheery disposition even when doing so veered into the realm of total absurdity and seemed to do nothing but increase the aggravation of a group of two or three essentially full-time posters who appear to run the forum, having all but chased off everyone else as they've now done to me as well.

However the absolute hatred (https://perma.cc/6S42-EYRP) dripping off this utterly malevolent post in which the same user gleefully asks about my "homeland" and "genetics" and how I became "confrontational" (was it through "environmental" factors?) is beyond contempt. The barely disguised smile with which she set-up a question, then jumped on my friendly response to let loose this carefully scripted, vile monologue - pounded out from the anonymity of the same keyboard from which she has directed this ire towards so many others before - is nothing short of evil. It is beyond my ability to simply let roll away with a cheerful response as I have so many other insulting posts directed towards me, not one of which I have reciprocated. (And I don't doubt for a second if I posited back to this same Greek Chat full-timer "How did you become so hateful towards other humans?" I'd be banned in a moment, and with good cause.)

The only response from a mod was to tell me to deal with it. This is from the same mod who here threw what could not be described with any word other than a tantrum; a post that, had anyone else made, they would surely have been banned for.

This site seems like such a great potential resource. But a quick log check of the last month finds that it averages never more than 12 posts per day from an average of five different users, the majority of whom are the same small group of 3-4 full-timers who appear to be logged-on 24/7 amassing tens of thousands of posts talking at each other and snarling at outsiders. A cursory glance further back seems to reveal this is the M.O. --- someone will create an account and, within 48-72 hours, say something that will set one of them off, whereupon they devolve into this sheer, unrelenting viciousness. I suppose this explains why many of the boards here have not had new posts in months or years (the largest social GLO by chapter size, TEKE, has not seen a new post to its sub-forum in four years), or why it now languishes with an Alexa rank of 450,000.

While the archives of this site are fascinating to read and I would love to have been a user when there were regular discussions occurring, before it became this abandoned husk, I understand now it seems to have wheedled away to a few aging alumni remainers, with the occasional sorority-obsessed mad scientist and GDI troll dropping in every few months or years. That's fine; this is a private site and can be run (or run down) anyway one wishes. In fact, it was my fault for not better socializing myself with some of these realities before making my first post (an innocuous thread about housing bond rates that was inexplicably deleted).

I apologize for this TLDR rant, it would probably be better for me to just quit my account and go back to Reddit, but it seems to be in the best interest of the remainers themselves for me to observe the reason I'm doing so if only so that the next person to think of creating an account will have fair warning not to disturb the solitude of these catacombs. I apologize for unwittingly creating the havoc I apparently have done by commenting here. Nevertheless, I do sincerely wish you all the best.

Whichever of you sees this first, kindly delete this account.

With my warmest regards,
R

Serious question: Why would you not delete your own account?

If this is your cheery disposition, I’d hate to see you when you’re cranky.

Also, I don’t think you understand what a tantrum is.

But at any rate, buh bye.

I'm not sure why you'd want to discontinue your participation here. You've contributed a great deal in a short period of time. It just seems as if you really don't understand how to communicate with people outside of your bubble, which is a problem in U.S. civil discourse of late. Many of your queries, e.g., why HBGLOs place an emphasis on being incorporated could have been solved with a pretty simple search. In other cases, e.g., that you thought there was a discussion to be had about why Sigma Chi should be shut down for something which maybe happened 12 years ago, I don't think you really thought the question through and may have erred in judgment.

I've also noted that early on, you thought some language, i.e., calling Democrats some sort of perjorative was acceptable. While that may be exactly what you refer to Democrats with in the closed circles you communicate in, that you would think using such language in a place like GC where viewpoints are diverse is beyond me. There are Republicans, Trump supporters, Biden supporters, Democrats, who all interact here without the level of vitriol that you inspire.

You'd benefit from having conversations, even tough ones, with people you disagree with. Learn to take an F-U in stride. If you're going to light these fuses, don't expect the moderators to help you deal with things when the attached bombs explode.

Mic Drop:D

This is ultimately what it boils down to. He's trying to start arguments and get people riled up, and then he plays dumb and innocent when things blow up.

I work with lots of victims of domestic violence, and that right there is an abusive tactic called gaslighting. Pushing someone's buttons 'til they go ballistic, then convincing them that they are the nutball.

It's a tactic employed by narcicists and internet trolls--and it's not a tactic that they consciously employ, it comes natural to them. It is how they communicate with others.

But I also leave room for maybe there's a cultural issue, maybe there's a Spectrum issue. I try not to assume that everyone is awful and I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.

It seems he probably communicates within a bubble. He says things which one would never say in diverse company. So again, I leave the door open to the possibility that he just doesn't have the skillset to communicate with folks from different backgrounds.

I have to give the benefit of the doubt because I remember who I was about 20 years ago. I'm sure some of y'all do too.

I don’t know how many international students went through recruitment at UCLA this year, but it’s usually a couple of dozen. And those students have great success in recruitment. Chi Omega usually has at least one international new member each pledge class.

I agree that he doesn't seem to understand social conventions so it could be a spectrum issue or just a difference in cultures. He could use some good old southern etiquette classes. He obviously didn't attend cotillion in middle school.

This is inappropriate and overly personal. I'm not unfamiliar with the sluething which happens in this forum and if he answered this, I'm confident that someone could personally identify him. This isn't anyone's business. And the whole genetic thing is beyond the pale.

Well considering some of the comments he made about the southern US, I would say it’s tit for tat.

The University of Chicago also likely has international students with successful recruitments, but GC has no regular UofC members to help glean stats. Or do we?

Hmm. Being a Southern girl, I have to say it's obvious to me that he's not the only one in this forum who didn't go to Cotillion.

Thank you.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

I already knew that - or maybe they flunked it!

Whoever this SuperMod is told this account to stay in bad faith. They know this account antagonizes certain posters they hope will go away.

I always felt this poster was actually one of them, or was a personal friend offline, because the way other posters on this site gave the account so much grace very early, with such a low post count? That was weird and telling at the same time.

I don't think telling someone to leave based on the fact that he antagonizes others is a valid stance. Be antagonized. Respond to things or don't. He generated content and interest. He offered up some valid points and other points which just weren't. He posted some profoundly racist memes which were immediately removed. I don't think any of us looks at a post and asks whether it is antagonizing. We look at posts as to whether there's a personal attack or an attack on an argument.

Being from where I'm from, I can appreciate better than a lot of folks just how insular some communities are and how they think parading around town with Trump flags in impromtu parades while tearing down any and all Democrat signage is their patriotic duty. This is really going on in my community. I think dialog with these folks is a better goal than shouting them down or removing them from our lives.

It's hard to look at your signature and agree that everyone gets a fair shake here but I can only speak for myself and my own work, which I hope holds up.