AOII Eliminates Legacy Policy
 

Like Delta Gamma, Alpha Omicron Pi has eliminated preferential treatment of legacies during recruitment. Changes include:

-Chapters will not be required to invite legacies back to the first invitational round of primary recruitment.

-Legacies who accept an invitation to the final preference party, like all PNMs who attend our preference party, must be placed on the chapter’s final bid list per the NPC Policy. This means that legacies do not have to be placed at the top of the bid list.

-If a legacy is released, the Alumnae Advisory Committee (AAC) should contact the AOII relative via telephone or email as a courtesy to inform the AOII relative of the legacy’s release.

https://www.alphaomicronpi.org/news/...1ysKwp_QI6lRaA

Thank you for sharing Sorority Sock. I'm curious to see if we'll see other NPC organizations following the decisions taken by Delta Gamma and Alpha Omicron Pi regarding their legacy policies before the start of Fall formal recruitment.

OK, so I first saw DG eliminated their legacy policy, and now AOPi. Can someone please tell me how this makes a sorority more inclusive? All so that legacies don't have to be placed at the top of the bid list? When did we stop educating members that if you invite a woman to preference, she absolutely has the chance to become a sister of the chapter, so get to know women prior to preference?

This whole crock of BS about inclusivity is so ridiculous, I can't even stand it. Before I get bombarded by the "predominately Southern chapters" argument, I get it, but most legacy policies state that a chapter is only required to invite a legacy to their FIRST invitational party. After that, they are free to release said woman. Are you telling me that so many legacies are getting bids that aren't "wanted" by the chapters?

This all seems like a reach for a way to sororities to stay relevant with the political climate of the country right now. Maybe I'm just cynical as hell, but the whole thing is making me laugh.

It surely provides a better opportunity for non-legacies to make it to Round 3. If all legacies must be invited to Round 2 (or first invitational round), which was DG's policy, it's possible a chapter would have to cut women they'd prefer to have room for legacies.

Much as I like the idea of dropping the legacy policy, I am much more concerned with how we get women of color and other minority persuasions to register for rush in the first place.

Wow! How this makes a sorority more inclusive is primarily through the eliminination of the automatic invite back to round 2. Now everyone is evaluated completely on who they are and what they can add to the chapter. If a PNM who is a legacy really wants to join her legacy chapter her enthusiasm ought to be as high as anyone else who really wants to join. As for not being at the top of the bid list after preference, well, I have seen legacies not getting a bid after attending pref and no-legacies not getting a bid to a chapter they had their heart set on. Both are devestated. By the way, I also have seen a legacy NOT accepting her bid to join her legacy house, too.

I think required recommendation policies are probably more of a barrier in that sense than legacy policies.

Possibly true, but an incoming student is more likely to know she has to go through rush than she is to know about recommendation policies, except maybe at the top 20 US greek-life universities.

I can't speak to a large chapter, but I know we wrote recs for women we wanted. We never let a rec be an obstacle (and this was decades ago), but we didn't even have that option if she never rushed.

Yes!! The timing is awful. Virtue signaling at its worst.

I've heard that some sororities have been wanting to get rid of legacy policies for years because there are so many legacies now and the sororities have taken the brunt of alum anger when legacies were cut. Then--all this happened and WOW!, we can get rid of the legacy policy and look fabulous for doing it! And if anyone protests, we'll all jump on them and tell them how racist they are!

The thing is, any sorority is going to find a way to retain PNMs in whom they're really interested. No one is stupid enough to drop a fabulous non-legacy because they have to keep a legacy for 1 more party! They will find a way to keep Ms. Fabulous if they want her.

About recs--I guarantee that if a sorority reallyreallyreally wants a PNM, a rec will be found. They can not do this for everyone, especially in huge recruitments, but they WILL do it for a highly desired woman. Any sorority that has recently announced that they're dropping recs is, again, virtue signalling--because they are NOT used to usher socially prominent women into a chapter. If social prominence is that important to a chapter, they KNOW about prominent PNMs without a rec.

I have seen sororities use recs more often to learn about girls they don't know, like small town girls, or to find out who they DON'T want to pledge. No one wants to get a girl who will make racist videos or get freshmen drunk or haze new members. Who wants to get their charter pulled? And every case I know of in which a member did something awful like that, it turns out she was sketchy in high school too and nobody knew.

If someone truly believes that dumping a legacy policy will make recruitment more inclusive, I have some swampland I'd like to sell you.

I'll pass on the swampland. If the problem is too many legacies to bid, and hurt feelings that result, maybe this is the answer. If the problem is lack of inclusivity and diversity, this misses the mark. I'm just guessing that legacy policies are not the reason behind lack of diversity during recruitment registration, and they're certainly not the reason behind member retention issues for women of color.

I've been wondering--what does NPHC think about all this?

Twenty years ago, I was talking to the girls in my daughter's gang about rushing and there were 4 black girls whom I really wanted to rush. They told me that their moms would execute them if they didn't join their groups. (Which they did, 2 Deltas and 2 AKAs.)

Sure we can make a big deal about inclusiveness and so on, but will we be poaching on NPHC territory? And making enemies? Because Delta and AKA rule this city and I can't see the alums I know being thrilled with their daughters choosing a different path.

(Actually a lot of us have been messaging about this, really wanting to know the answer, and I finally decided to come out and ask.)

This is a non-issue in NPHC organizations. Any woman or man we lose to an NPC or NIC organization as a first semester freshman is not the kind of person we are seeking in the first place. There is nothing wrong with that person, but we welcome people who have made up their minds.

Even if NPC "poached" certain women, it would never be enough to have a cultural or financial impact on our organizations. Our membership strongholds are historically black colleges and universities and alumni/ae and graduate chapters.

Any mother having a hissy fit because her daughter made another choice has missed the point of NPHC Greekdom as a whole: that we seek organizations because they are in our heart, and we are chosen because we have demonstrated our interest and proven ourselves worthy through close observation over a lengthy period of time.

Hope that clears things up. I'm happy to explain if anything is not clear.

ETA: Literally only one of my hundreds of NPHC friends on social media has even mentioned this, and he is a past national president of an org who merey finds it interesting.

Thank you!

I just totally admire the NPHC members' dedication to their membership. NPC just hasn't figured out how to get to that level and it makes me sad. It is truly to be admired and emulated.

Ironically, this is the very issue with our legacy policies.

There are certain expectations that some moms put on their daughters and/or a chapter and/or their national organization to essentially guarantee their daughter a bid.

And I say moms, because honestly, in all the angry leagacy-based phone calls I've heard about over the last 15+ years (since I've been Greek) both here on Greekchat and elsewhere, 99% of them have been from moms (and not grandmothers, biological sisters, etc.).

And what is this 'poaching' you speak of? Why would anyone be upset with a young woman going down the path she sees as being the best for herself, based on knowledge and positive experiences; a place where she feels most comfortable? If someone's mad about that, well... f*** them, I say. If that's a problem for ANY of us in Greek life, no matter the council or organization, then we're all failing miserably.

We need to allow women to make the best decision for themselves. Without pressure. Without guilt. Without making them feel 'less than'. And all of us (adults) need to stop putting so much social pressure on teenagers and/or making them feel like the sorority they join will determine their lot in life and how successful they are, or who they'll marry, or how much money they'll make, or how popular they'll be.

Maybe some people finally stood up and said they've had enough of all that. And good for them, I say!

I agree with all of this. The conversation never comes up in my Greek circles. I only know of one guy that was participated in NIC recruitment, dropped and ended up joining an NPHC organization.

Our councils offer different sorority experiences. We all offer leadership, service and social opportunities, but different nevertheless. Normally, it’s a pretty clear line between “interests” and “PNM’s,” regardless of race/ethnicity.

I keep seeing discussions about what the NPC organizations can do to attract more diverse young women to participate in recruitment. I honestly don’t think there is one special, magical answer to that question, because Black people (and non-Black POC) are diverse. The goal should be to see, understand and respect each persons differences (just say no to “colorblindness“), but to treat each PNM with the same kindness, consideration and expectations, right? Black PNM’s watch the same recruitment videos, obsess over chapter IG pages and plan their outfits and hair styles 3 months before recruitment just like everyone else. Just like their peers, they are attracted to the things that they believe NPC membership will offer them. You can’t poach someone that wants to be poached. ;) Similarly, non-Black NPHC members saw something in our organizations that made them research and pursue us. They have the same expectations placed on them as our Black interests.

Here's what the 'poaching' is about: suddenly NPC and our groups have sent out directives to increase our diversity, even including classes and think groups on it. Some universities have bewailed the NPC/NIC lack of diversity, and unaffiliated people (and neither group has a clue) are forever posting sneeringly about sororities only having skinny white girls. I have seen people try to start discussions about this on FB and get dogpiled.

Sen has made a great post about why so many black women prefer NPHC (and this is pretty much what I've observed in the last 40+ years--PNMs choose the NPHC because the most involved women in their communities did). I would love to see the NPC hierarchy meet with NPHC and have a dialogue about this so they will quit blaming and punishing their groups for lack of diversity. We can try all we want but college students will go for the experience they prefer.

Might more than a few college administrators need to raise their level of understanding by also participating in this NPC/NPHC sorority diversification dialog of which you speak?

YES.

We won’t get that level of dedication until we change the way we rush. For the most part, women join an NPC chapter because they like the women who are currently chapter members. I’ve read more than one post on here when the NPHC boards were more active from an interested woman who said she wasn’t sure she liked the current chapter members. The answer was usually something along the lines of “evaluate if this org is truly in your heart, and if so, be on about the business of Delta (or AKA, or Sigma, or Zeta).” They cultivate devotion to the National organization far above that of the local chapter. It’s the total opposite of NPC rush.

I think that part of the reason that we'll never get that level of devotion is our quotas. You can love and appreciate the aims of Alpha Alpha Alpha your whole young life but if you're one of the 95% of PNMs who are cut from that organization during recruitment because they can only take 75 women, then all that appreciation is down the toilet and you better pick a different group or stay independent.

This too.

Heck, women rushing NPC are outright discouraged from the kind of devotion to a possible organization that NPHC women are encouraged to have.

Thank you, but also we've been doing things largely the same for years and years. It's not hard to "copy off our paper" if you wanted to.

However, NPHC orgs fill gaps that groups of white women have filled with other community and civic endeavors for many, many years. For example, the Junior League. There is no black version of the Junior League, so black sororities have filled that need for black women after graduation.

I'm not saying the Junior League is the main competitor for college women after graduation, but let's also be honest that most college women don't stay engaged in their sororities after college. Alumnae initiation is the true pipeline. Maybe even moreso for NPHC fraternities than sororities.

I agree with all of this. I wanted to tag you in before I answered, but I don't know you in real life LOL

I don't know that a dialogue is really necessary, though. I just think that NPC alumnae groups need to show up in places that they're not accustomed to. In my home town, for example, there is definitely an alumnae panhellenic. But are they showing up in DC Public Schools to talk about the sorority experience?

I agree with this, too. And with alumnae/alumni intake, we definitely encourage people who don't feel like the college chapter is a fit to just wait and pursue after they graduate. For me, I didn't come to know I wanted to pursue Alpha until I was a senior in college, but because I knew about alumni chapters, I was happy to wait until the timing was better.

That's part of it. I know a lot more goes into it than this, but NPC orgs have to be okay with being dramatically different sizes if they want to change the culture. I'd rather see a college campus with a huge chapter of Chi Chi Chi and a small chapter of Pi Alpha--if that's who they decide to be based on available interest.

This happens at large black colleges where 75 women may pledge AKA or Delta, 15 may pledge Zeta, and 5 may pledge SGRho -- and nobody is unhappy with those numbers because everybody is where they want to be (except the women who got rejected of course lol).

I think here is a place to retell the brief story that my mom (a Delta of nearly 50 years) rushed at a Michigan college and ALL the sororities participated. She still has a memento from a Delta Zeta rush party (I think she got a bid). I am not sure how it was structured, but she went into the rush because it was mandatory to go visit all the orgs, and for all orgs to participate, even if they weren't necessarily giving out bids.

That said...

Me and NUPE4LIFE (former Kappa mod and friend of mine) discuss Greek life all the time, and we've come to the agreement that all Greek orgs should participate in some sort of mandatory first round event where all orgs are visited. This would build an appreciation of BGLO, LGLO, and MCGLOs among the predominately white organizations, while allowing those same orgs to "catch" people who didn't know about them beforehand, if that makes sense.

It puts everyone on the same playing field if you come to college not knowing the totality of Greekdom. This would allow the AKA and Delta legacy daughters that Carnation mentioned the chance to really see the other side, and would allow students who don't know any better have a chance to make an informed decision.

AND the elimination of legacy preference levels the playing field further.

Recs should indeed be next on the chopping block.

Sorry if this rambles. I'm used to speaking about this more than typing about it.

But this is the very point. College students WILL go for the experience they prefer. At least they should, and we should be encouraging that.

And they'd prefer not to get yelled at when mom has a hissy fit because their darling daughter didn't make the same choice they made 30 years prior.

Again, this legacy decision didn't happen overnight. And no, I don't think it's "bad timing." I think a giant movement and the in-our-faces-all-day-every-day thing needed to happen to wake us all up and take action on something (e.g. our legacy policies) that some people have been talking about for at least a decade. Sometimes we all need one giant slap in the face to realize that maybe we're not doing everything perfectly and could use a change.

And let's also not pretend that some members, chapters, and even organizations as a whole haven't openly been racist, or at the very least, non-inclusive. You really think that all of our "picture-perfect" chapters filled with 100+ tall, skinny blondes is treating all potential members as equals? You think they're giving the black girl, or the overweight girl, or the girl with the pink hair the same opportunities as someone who looks exactly like them? Please.

Truth. We push away women who are truly dedicated and we give a pass through rounds to women who may want nothing to do with our organizations.

Look, I don't know what all the answers are, but we really can't continue to do the same thing over and over, year after year, decade after decade, and expect to survive. Change is inevitable. And major events occurring today - BLM, COVID-19 - are going to drastically change how and why women attend college years from now. Are we going to be able as NPC sororities to adapt and be relevant for the 18-year-olds of the future?

18-year-old have always wanted the same thing--to be accepted. I know that my organization and many others have lots of black, overweight, and pink/blue/whatever color of hair women. I doubt that many chapters sit down and make a plan for excluding these groups. Actives pick who they like.

However, having watched the rush of a purple-haired woman at a college where I taught, I don't blame the sororities for cutting her. She was out to shock the women there and having done so in parties, raged because she was cut across the board. Same for a lot of the women in the "Weird Rush Stories" thread, and this is why I don't believe in being forced to accept everyone.

Some people are talking about change in organizations--acceptance, inclusiveness, and diversity. Fine, but don't go trying to tear up the organization you just pledged. I would never think of pledging AEPhi and then announcing that the Star of David offends me and you just better get all of them out of the house or I'll sue. Yet this has happened with traditionally Christian NPCs--"take the New Testament out of the ritual or I'll raise hell at conventions/print the initiation ceremony online (we saw a few of those here on GC several years back)/act offended at every chapter meeting", etc.

We are all looking for high quality women who will work hard and make us proud of our organizations.

Everything that you said here. And cheers to pointing out some of the best points by others in this thread, and especially cheers to the bold text.

This is extremely antecdotal and is missing the big picture. And who here is arguing that a chapter should be forced to take anyone and everyone?

Again, not sure where we're ripping up the very fabric of our organizations and destroying decades of history by eliminating our legacy policies.

Appreciate the NPHC insights on this. My experience has been more the "women in my family have always been Deltas so I will too" than otherwise, but my experience is limited.

I caution the greek community about seeing this only as a white/black issue. Unless we can show ALL women of color the benefits of membership and encourage them to seek it, we hamstring ourselves.

Haven't you seen articles online for years that scream that sororities are exclusive and must be made to take all interested women? They've been all over the place.

My story about the purple-haired girl is hardly anecdotal. Read "Weird Rush Stories" again. I bet that hardly a recruitment goes by at big schools where there aren't several women who do this kind of thing. There are many women who do things that aren't acceptable to the sororities at their campus and then scream unfair when they don't get a bid. Thinking here about a girl who pulled trains with men all over campus the summer before her freshman year and then went berserk (and so did her father) when she was cut from all 7 groups after first parties. Women like this want to break the rules and they don't care if they embarrass their GLOs, but they'll tell the world how wrong sororities are for not taking everyone.

I have written in this thread why I don't think the legacy policy is responsible for the lack of diversity and neither are recs...I won't write it again. Legacy policies and ripping up our fabric have nothing to do with each other. I think the timing of these organizations in announcing the new legacy policy is ridiculous. Not to mention, recruitment starts in a month and there are some very angry alums out there.

Yes, I have. And I don't think eliminating the legacy policy is going to change this, nor does it force a chapter to "take everyone".

I'm not sure how the legacy policy has anything to do with crazy potential new members. There will forever be "Weird Rush Stories", and they will be generated because of PNMs with different-colored hair and PNMs who are tall, skinny blondes. Crazy doesn't discriminate.

When would have been a good time? At what time of year or under what circumstances do you think all alumnae would be happy?

I think that these groups were trying to figure out when to dump it on their members--99.9% of whom were not given a say or a vote in this--and then voila! All this horrible stuff happened in this country and by eliminating the policy at this time, these groups could virtue signal!

My concern has been when percentages are bandied about - if 20% of a student population is a minority, that doesn't necessarily mean that 20% of NPC group members should/could be minority. We need to acknowledge that they may have options in NPHC and multi-cultural Greek organizations, while making sure that NPC groups are open to them as well.

I like Sen's idea of an across the board introduction to all groups for students. Even if they aren't interested in joining, it would be good for students to know about the other groups. I know that my alma mater has a kind of open house for freshmen, but it is all campus groups, not just Greeks. I will note that when I suggested including NPHC sororities in our sorority information session for Murray State we were politely refused by the NPHC groups. That was over 10 years ago, so certainly a great deal has changed.

I think the diversity conversation is very layered. There are more reasons than just having options.

It’s also about having an honest and deep look at current NPC membership. Is everyone ready for inclusiveness? Organizations can post about support for diversity and social justice all they want, but still have sisters wearing blackface on Snapchat or proudly attend a “Mexican” party, where actives are dresses as stereotypes. I’ve even seen troubling comments from alumnae in the past few weeks. Those things hurt the reputations of all of the NPC and damage the things you are working towards. As a POC PNM (or a parent), I may second guess participation in recruitment when these things happen yearly at different schools across the country. It’s not that we generalize, we know it’s not everyone, but no one wants to land in the system where it happens. No one wants to be down the hall from the “sisters” that smile in your face and then say the n-word on social media. No one wants to complain to their chapter leadership about micro-aggressions, only for nothing to be done about it. No one wants to be the token.

It’s not just about parents wanting their daughters in the NPHC because of culture and tradition, it’s also about safe spaces. Will they be supported and have a positive sorority experience in the NPC? I’d rather have my loved ones be GDI’s than potentially have them deal with discrimination.

At this point, the inclusiveness focus should really be on two groups:

1. The diverse actives and alumnae who fell in love with your sororities and may have some perspectives about what can be done for your membership, because they are your sisters. Before I would speak to anyone, I’d give them the opportunity to talk about their experiences and share ideas.
2. The diverse PNM’s who are committed to the recruitment process. The goal should be to see, understand and respect each persons differences (just say no to “colorblindness“), but to treat each PNM with the same kindness, consideration and expectations.

While I appreciate the concerns about poaching from the NPHC, it’s a non-issue for us. However, clear and present are the POC PNM’s on message boards asking if they should consider recruitment. Those are the young ladies that need the inclusion commitment from your organizations.

NPC Responses
 

Apparently the idea behind removing legacy courtesies is inclusion; I don't think that is the best way to go about it, but would like to see what else NPC groups are doing. Here is a link to Gamma Phi's response (They also had a roundtable with sisters of color - no link to that) :

https://www.gammaphibeta.org/AntiRacismResources

At my alma mater they currently do a large scale program introducing the fraternities and sororities on campus. Each chapter does an intro and some background information, along with a step, hop, stroll, chant or a song. Afterwards there is a fair. I’m not sure if the program is successful, but Greek Life has been growing rapidly there regardless.

The university I work at also does a similar program every semester and I’ve observed. It looks like an awkward clash of cultures. Most of the POC go straight to the NPHC tables. They wait for their chapter of interest to stroll, say hi to their friends in other organizations and then head out. The NPC/NIC orgs awkwardly watched the strolls and then went back to talking about recruitment with the mostly white PNM’s. I know the formatting will be changed to something more structured and programmatic moving forward, but I still wonder how much it’ll help diversity.

I think the NPC should also think about inclusion outside of recruitment activities. Perhaps chapters make a commitment to meeting, collaborating and supporting diverse organizations on their campus. Not a mandate...but a genuine commitment. Build trust with the campus community outside of the NPC/NIC. It’s about creating the culture. Once others see and feel that commitment, you may be surprised who approaches about joining. Sometimes it’s about learning to be comfortable in those spaces and meeting the diverse PNM’s where they are.

Thank you for sharing your perspective, this is just very well said. While I'm not African American, I am a person of color and a daughter of an immigrant parent, who didn't have the opportunity to attend college. Thus didn't have the privilege of being a legacy.

I've been following this thread, and I have been doing a lot of thinking. Granted I am a member of an NPC group who might have had a potential legacy (my step-daughter). I know for some the timing of this change might seem a bit off.

For me being in college and not being a legacy provided a lot of additional stress going through rush/recruitment (showing my age). I think at many schools there is tent talk even in the best of worlds. Hearing this and that from others about not being a legacy might hurt you etc. In the end things worked out but, in my personal opinion dropping the legacy policy is a start to providing a more stable playing field.

Its a long time in coming not only to perhaps alleviate a barrier but more and more people are attending colleges and by virtue of this become involved in greek life. As more and more individuals become members and then have kids of their own there is bound to be a proliferation of legacies, as compared to the early part of the 20th century where not a lot of women were attending college. Simply put regardless of the reason I just don't see the practice as sustainable long term.

Yes when there is such a big shift there is going to be some who are all for it and those against it. But honestly groups need to evolve and really need to look within their own membership beyond those who have remained actively involved past college, what will help sustain and help these organizations. After college as some have noted there is a bit of attrition from NPC group members. Why? I feel as though this is the elephant in the room that no one wants to address. Even if your legacy decides to join your sisterhood still doesn't mean that mom/daughter will continue involvement with ABC after DD graduates. Even within my own geographic area outside of the alumnae group I'm involved with there are loads of sisters who live in the area and choose not to be involved? Again why? Often times when I am out volunteering somewhere I will often see NPHC members or even MCG's represented and they represent their organizations proudly. For whatever reason at least where I'm at this doesn't seem to be a big thing or as much of a priority.

All this to say I feel like groups should be seeking out members who really want to be involved and participate not just for their collegiate years but beyond. Look I understand that sometimes life happens to all of us as adults, illness, kids, aging parents etc. But at least from my vantage point there is a small yet vocal portion of the population that feel as though ending legacies will signal doom and gloom. But frankly and take it from someone who doesn't adapt well to change, we do need to evolve. We do need to at least crack the door open to provide opportunities to be more inclusive especially at the campus level.

For those of you who raised daughters sharing your experience with your sorority and the joys of it that is wonderful. And no one is diminishing that or telling you to not share those stories. But at the same time, your kids need to find their own path to which ever group suits them the best. So they might not share in the ABC sisterhood with you, but instead decide hey I'm more of an XYZ, that's still something to be celebrated because your child is exercising healthy independence.

If you get to the bottom of this my apologies for the long rant, but this topic has been weighing on me for a while.

What a well-thought-out approach GPhiB is taking in response to the subjects at hand.

Ugh....I missed that presentation and I was hoping that IHQ would post a link to the video so that I could still watch it. :(

I think they said there might be more.

As someone who attended the round table, I am glad that it was not recorded. There were a lot of deeply personal conversations that were shared by BIPOC that I would not want publicized.

There will be! I thought they emailed the second one, but can't seem to find it in my email anymore. Definitely connect with someone from the Belonging & Inclusion Task Force :)

But ripping up the legacy policies is just the start. This is just the very beginning of the dramatic changes to come and come quickly. Hold on to your seat. I think we will all be rather nonplussed by purple hair, when inclusion at ANY price becomes the goal of our organizations. And it is certainly coming.