Delta Gamma Eliminates Legacy Policy
 

Delta Gamma announced today that it will eliminate preferential treatment of legacies during recruitment. They believe this change will allow for greater opportunities for membership. https://www.deltagamma.org/blog/reim...acy-connection

And piss off alums who are big givers.

Yes.

And some who aren't.

That's ... a big change.

On the one hand, there are an awful lot of legacies out there. All 26 NPC organizations are at least 100 years old. I'm sure there are chapters out there that could take quota-plus and have every single NM be a legacy, so non-legacies wouldn't have a prayer.

On the other hand, I'd be pretty ticked off if my hypothetical daughter weren't invited to the first invitational round of FR unless it was by her choice (e.g. she ranked AEPhi last and matched up with other chapters and had a full schedule), or offered a bid if she went to AEPhi's pref unless it was her choice (she listed AEPhi second and matched to her first choice).

Carnation is spot on. I foresee a lot of ticked-off alumnae whose daughters fall in love with DG and then don't even make it past open houses.

I wanted to read here for more info on why they made the change but apparently that part is sisters only? It wanted me to log in.

I remember reading recruitment results from different schools and DG nearly always listed the number, something like: “54, including 14 legacies”. I always admired that. I know traditions are slipping away, but in my FIJI chapter, the Brothers are always excited to bid legacies then meet their fathers/grandfathers/brothers at Homecoming then “sneak” them into initiation ceremonies to pin their legacy.
This is one change I’m having difficulty understanding. And YES, I think it’s going to “piss off” and certainly hurt some loyal alumnae.

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this:

1. I understand the need to level the playing field in higher education, the exclusive Greek system and society as a whole. We’ve all known unconnected PNM’s with stellar resumes & present well who have tough rushes and we’ve all known legacies who probably got a bid because of that. I would want my legacy to get a bid because she had found her home and they value and want her to be part of the chapter, not because of pushy alumnae or a legacy quota or whatever else has nothing to do with herself and her character.

2. I don’t like that they did away with 100% of special consideration for legacies. I would like to have seen DG still want a legacy introduction form and placement on the top bid list if carried to Pref. I would rather my legacy be cut after open house with no required ask back then to go all the way to Pref and not get a bid.

3. It’s confusing. Being a legacy IS a special connection. Having volunteered with your mom with the vision impaired or knowing your mom still vacations with her pledge sisters once a year or having visited your mom’s house on a college visit.....are legacies going to feel like they shouldn’t talk about that stuff and why it made them interested in DG? Will they feel like they aren’t even equal, but less desired than non-legacy pnms?

4. Without the entire NPC moving to this model, I fear it only hurts our legacies especially on competitive campuses. They are less important to DG but might still be released by other chapters who assume they want their legacy (ESPECIALLY with sitting sisters, or recently graduated sisters/cousins, or for chapter legacies).

I hope with the hope of expanding our sisterhood and leveling the playing field, we don’t shut a lot of legacies completely out of the Greek system.

Most organizations official policy on legacies is that they are invited back after round one and than after that it is up to the chapter. I see that more as a courtesy than as preferential treatment. I know for my particular organization if a legacy makes it to bid day there are protocols to follow but again nothing even close to being preferential treatment.

I definitely don't think this is the way to go and would be disappointed if my organization did the same. I have a daughter going through recruitment who was really interested in the DG chapter at her school and this has kind of changed things for her. Also many girls going through who aren't legacies are actually looking for that for their own future daughters.

There are more girls in chapters that are not legacies than are and if we keep watering everything down there will be no reason for sororities to even exist. Next thing you know it will be unfair to have grade requirements so grade cuts will go away or it won't be fair to give girls a leg up who were super involved in high school . We can all change our profile pictures to Save Harvard but really I don't think we a far from what they are pushing towards.

This.

We all say "XY Chapter has enough legacies going through to fill an entire pledge class". As someone stated, that doesn't happen. Not all the legacies rush. Not all the legacies want their legacy sorority. Not all legacies are a good fit. And we all know chapters of our orgs who are particularly unimpressed with legacy status and seem to have it in for legacies (i.e., they are not even extended the courtesy invitation) and cut them right off the bat.

I believe the statement said that this had been under consideration for some time. Well then, the timing of this decision couldn't have been worse. The under-rumblings of NPC is that they are concerned about lower PNM numbers what with COVID-19, especially at schools/CPCs that have not made a final decision about how the fall semester and recruitment will take place. So the prudent thing to do would be to ensure that ALL PNMs feel valued and welcomed, mail out flyers, advertise well, and hold online rush info sessions throughout the summer, so that the underrepresented (minorities, first gen college students) are informed. Be truthful about recommendations and specifically outline (as has been done here) how girls can go about finding recs. Be truthful about appropriate clothes to wear for each round (if there are any in-person rounds) and explain that even if rush is conducted virtually, they will need to be presentable (not look like they just rolled out of bed -looking at you my 6th grade students!) and they need to be able to hold an intelligent and interesting conversation.

I'm waiting for all the other sororities to join DG on the legacy death boat.

Yes. We want the involved, hard-working girls, not the ones who will ghost us after pledging so they can be with their boyfriends 24/7. We want the PNMs with strong recs that assure us that the girls are quality people who won't make hateful racist videos or haze PNMs on their own. We don't want girls like the ones in the "Weird Rush Stories" thread here on Greekchat.

And who are these small committees who are making these recent decisions? I know women from many sororities who are angry that they, as stakeholders, have not even been allowed input. These women are hardworking alums who have put in years of toiling for their sororities and they've never tried to force chapters into pledging anyone. Many sororities are going to lose some major, major donations.

And about the dropping of legacy advantages: we all have legacy songs. Will chapters now be discouraged from singing them? Will the word 'legacy' be dropped from the Greek vocabulary?

The change seems to be that while the NPC sororities have written rules regarding admittance of Legacies, any change makes them more likely to become more like the NIC which tends to have unwritten rules. The NIC fraternities (as far as I can tell) still care about Legacies, they just don't have those rules which are going to *bind* chapters to specific results.

I highly doubt that Delta Gamma's decision took note of anything having to do with becoming more like NIC fraternities. Your thoughts/opinions on the change are a bit of a stretch, to be polite. Rather simplistic thinking, also.

OK, I'm not weighing in on the legacies discussion. In years past I've expressed my opinions about legacies. I wasn't one, and I don't have any, so I technically don't have a dog in this fight. I do agree with carnation's statement about small committees making big decisions without involving stakeholders. I've seen plenty of that behavior in my own fraternity in recent years. I also appreciate all of TXDG's thoughtful comments.

Proud
 

Sounds like it’s time for me to make a big donation to DG then

TXDG-I especially agree with your second point regarding legacies who have been invited to preference and where they would be placed on the bid list.

One, 18 year olds shouldn’t be rushing for future daughters they may not even have. I wasn’t a legacy and certainly wasn’t thinking about choosing “my legacy” when I went through rush. I didn’t even have children until my late 30’s. My chapter President who became a traveling consultant and has been a chapter advisor to multiple campuses since....has 3 sons.

I hope your daughter will consider DG) for her college experience and our sisterhood rather than what some guy’s sperm might produce for her in the future!

Two, legacies being equal to all other PNM’s isn’t watering everything down. Your stance that it’s the first step to lowering GPA or leadership standards is a straw man argument at best. At worst, it’s elitist bias that non-legacies (or proxy for non-white) PNM’s have lower grades and lower standards. This move by DG - like it or not - is to ensure that we are recruiting the highest quality women and that unconnected PNMs with stellar grades, leadership, friendship, & potential don’t “fall through the cracks” while less qualified legacies are ushered deeper into rush week.

I know we all think our sweet babies are perfect and that our legacies would be lucky to pledge them, but the reality is there are almost always 100 other girls with better grades, more volunteer hours, more honed leadership skills, stronger Recs, better fit for chapter personality, etc. As one of my sisters said yesterday, let our focus be on raising young women and promoting our Greek experiences. I would love for my daughter to become a DG but I would be equally thrilled for her to find HER HOME in any NPC sisterhood!

That’s my biggest concern and also where other NPC groups who don’t share that same policy have had some REALLY angry alumnae and legacies. One NPC group on my campus was notorious for “cross cutting” their legacies on Pref Night (pre-RFM days when cross-cut was a real thing).

It's so cruel to raise a daughter with stories and songs from your sorority and she makes it to prefs--and gets dropped afterwards. Some sororities say they dropped the policy of listing them first on the bid list because there are so many legacies now. WTH? If you don't want them, don't ask them to prefs. Don't string them along! And if you know you do, please put them at the top of your list.

This is the part most upsetting to me as well. Thankfully my 3 daughters have gone through recruitment. It was peace of mind for me knowing that when the two who attended our preference parties they were at the top of the bid list. If there was worry about them getting cut after making it that far, it would have been excruciatingly painful for all involved.

Yes! I already have an automatic donation to the Foundation set up, but I just might do some additional unplanned giving.

As for lots of DG's being upset about this, either they aren't expressing it or they aren't on social media. I first heard about this policy change a few days ago on one of DG's regional Facebook pages. For every member who was upset, disappointed or, yes, even outraged, there were five more who were supportive and even pleased. Same reaction when Executive Offices posted the announcement on Instagram yesterday -- the number of members who were happy or OK with it far outweighed those who were unhappy. And some members of other NPC organizations (e.g., KKG, AGD, ADPi, PiPhi) weighed in with their support and challenged their own organizations to make a similar change.

I looked at the page. Anyone who is against the change is getting attacked, so I suppose that they--like often happens in cases like these--will be silently showing their opposition by withdrawing their money.

I'm torn about this. On one hand, I want sororities to be more inclusive for all women and I think eliminating the legacy preference helps chapters choose women for who they are and not for who their mom/sister/aunt/etc was. It's similar to colleges dropping legacy consideration in my mind, because like sororities college affiliation has historically been used to admit the white, affluent children of white, affluent people (and I've got some fascinating data on Harvard legacy admits if anyone's interested in seeing this in action).

On the other hand, I'm a legacy to ADPi through my mom and I *know* that the only reason I got that courtesy invite to the second round of recruitment was because of my connection. The other chapters that ADPi recruits against all dropped me, I didn't know a single woman in ADPi, and I absolutely did not and still don't fit that chapter's mold. I wasn't dumb when they kept inviting me back for recruitment rounds. My chapter also takes legacies very seriously and we tried our hardest to make as many want to join as we could. I'm eternally grateful to share my ADPi experience with my mom and my sorority journey wouldn't have been half as rich without my mom there for all of it.

I think the middle ground between these two ends is that individual chapters can still give legacies a preference if that's what they choose to do, rather than being mandated to do so by Delta Gamma. Obviously I'm not privy to DG's recruitment system but I'm sure there's a way a chapter could ensure legacies feel extra special and warm and fuzzy if they wanted to.

I have never really been on board with the idea of legacies. I don't see why my membership means someone I'm related to gets an advantage. As a PNM I'd rather be on equal footing with everyone than having an "edge" because I was expelled out of someone's uterus once.

I just hope this gets publicized REALLY REALLY A LOT so the other sororities take it into account and don’t all drop a girl because they assume she’ll be high up enough on her legacy chapter’s list.

Jen, for many people, it's not just the expulsion. The moms/grandmothers/sisters have often shown them the pins, introduced their sisters to them, sung them the songs, etc., for many years. I did all that with my daughters and most of y'all know that none even went to a school with my sorority. Still, it would have been nice to share the bond with one of the nine.

33, agreed. This happened to my niece back in 2005--she was an in-house legacy to one group and probably would have fit better in others, yet she was cut to 2 groups right off.

I guess I just don't get why it's so important to share sorority stuff like that. I have a ton more family traditions and things I'd rather pass along than songs and pins for a group they may or may not like in the end. And I'd hate for someone to feel obligated because of me, and I would've hated to have felt obligated to my family (because I'm the type that totally would, to my detriment).



I hope all the groups look to doing this. Have everyone on equal footing.

Part of legacy status is a recognition that in addition to having a possible background in the sorority, a legacy can also bring an alumna back into active duty, if she has perhaps not been active in the past. Alumnae involvement is a problem across the board, and I know in our Alumnae Panhellenic mothers who hadn't been doing much for their sorority or panhellenic would often become active when their daughters went through recruitment, even if they didn't pledge their legacy chapter. It is also a way of honoring the alumna and her membership. I don't think one invite to the first invitation round is too much to ask, and as for the preference bid list, if they make it to pref, the chapter should absolutely want them. I would fight this should Gamma Phi consider it. As for a level playing field, that's what the Unanimous Agreements are for. If a sorority choses to do something independently that differs from the norm, more power to them, but they shouldn't expect others to do it just because they did.

I think that to some degree whether you think this concept is awful or great also has to do with your collegiate experience and where your chapter was in the pecking order of your campus and within your national organization. Also whether it concerns a legacy to the same chapter.

On another note, the Reddit thread on this is almost comical in its polar oppositeness to this thread.

No no no no no! Please stop with this nonsense. This is why I hesitated to comment on the NPC Community College Task Force thread... because I was so enraged at the mere suggestion that NPC sororities would be lowering their standards or would become obsolete because they considered a change.

Why would eliminating legacy policies on the national level = eliminating grade requirements? This makes no sense and is comparing apples and oranges. It reminds me of the people who argue, "We shouldn't allow gay marriage! Next thing you know, people will be allowed to marry their dog!"

Just no.

This! Individual chapters still have a say. They always have, regardless of what any national policy says. Either they like a legacy and want to keep her past second round (if national policy dictates she stay past the first) or they bring her through preference (knowing at that point national policy dictates she's "stuck").

I guess the question I have is this: who feels more hurt by this whole thing? Is it the legacy going through recruitment? Or is it mom who's upset because her daughter won't be her sister and is threatening to pull donations? I don't have the answer, but I'd be curious to know.

There is no acceptable way to express opposition to this because a segment of society is attempting to make any kind of dissent unacceptable. I read this thread last night and walked away without commenting because I knew what I wanted to say would probably lead to being attacked.

My thought as soon as I read this? Wokeness and equity comes to NPC recruitment and, therefore, NPC. The timing is interesting because I just finished watching an extensive interview with Peter Boghossian and James Lindsey about how wokeness destroys organizations from within in a very predictable pattern whether it is a church, a knitting club, a hiking group, or a college/university. It cuts off conversation, creates an alienated middle, and ultimately destroys the community. One of the things they specifically mentioned is the way it guts organizations financially as people in the alienated middle are forced out and leave with their money. I would guess this is the start of it in the NPC.

And if you think I'm overstating this, let's come back in four years and revisit this thread. Declining college enrollments, a prediction of 25% of colleges/universities closing in the next ten years, coronavirus fallout, massive job losses, and now these kinds of decisions?

I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I bet I'm not.

I wish you would forward this to the NPC.

I made an account just to comment on this.

I am a relatively young alumna (late 20s). I come from a mid-sized chapter (~150) at a well regarded private school. I have been active in my city’s alumnae group and have done some work with undergraduate chapters nearby. That is to say, I'm not someone who just left after my college years and have been an involved member of our sisterhood in a number of capacities.

I support this decision. There are a variety of barriers to entry for women to join a sorority. Some of them are wider NPC problems like the rising cost of dues and other costs associated with sorority membership. DG cannot do anything about that. What they can do is remove a policy that at the end of the day is mainly benefitting upper-class (white) women whose mothers and grandmothers had the opportunity to attend college and the ability to join a sorority. We can argue about what that privilege means and who has or doesn’t have privilege (which is what a lot of the comments on Facebook have devolved to) but that doesn’t change the fact that the legacy policy can and likely has prevented wonderful women from joining our sisterhood that we absolutely could have benefited from. If PNM A is a 4.0 student who also runs track and is an engineering major with a glowing personality and PNM B has fine grades but minimal involvement on campus and a personality that clashes with the sisterhood BUT is a legacy, don't we want to give our collegians the opportunity to choose A as often as befits their membership selection? And legacies do not suddenly disappear. A woman whose mother, grandmother, or sister is a DG is still considered a legacy. What changes is the requirements to look at them differently than any other woman who wants to join our sisterhood. She will still be welcomed as someone with a special connection to DG and her legacy relative is still welcome at initiation and any other events that they may host. The celebration just formally starts on bid day rather than before.

To be frank, the comments that have turned truly nasty on the Facebook thread in particular have come from older alumnae demanding respect that they are not giving in return. The majority of the women for the change (again, mostly younger alumnae) have kindly, politely, and gently tried to explain where the policy change has come from and how exactly it relates to privileges they may not have realized. Instead they have been met with condescension, coded language and in some cases overt transphobia that had no place in the conversation. This is not an ageist thing and there are still many older alumnae who have actively engaged in debate in a way that is productive and polite. But the majority of women coming out swinging, accusing DG of pandering and belittling their own sisters, are those who have not been in college for a long time and are not as close to the current members and DG chapters. They have spoken down to their sisters, denied their experiences, and have in effect formed cliques that have ganged up on other women and used "laughing" reactions to some very serious posts. I believe someone quoted our Article II ("The objects of this Fraternity shall be to foster high ideals of friendship among women, to promote their educational and cultural interests, to create in them a true sense of social responsibility, and to develop in them the best qualities of character") to one of the woman and she replied " it’s ok, I’m a grown up that is not concerned with whatever article 2 is." These younger women coming out in force for the policy change may not have legacies of their own but they are the ones dealing with it day-to-day. They are the ones seeing its effects during recruitment (and in many cases being yelled at by women twice their age because her daughter is not a fit for DG at XYZ university the way she may have been 25 years ago at DG at ABC college) and beyond.

The reality is that our beloved Fraternity is going through changes that come with today’s world. What you deem as “wokeness” is not sudden and rather part of the last few years of Delta Gamma actively re-examining its history and contextualizing what it did wrong and how it now wants to do right. I would like to point you to the Winter 2019 Anchora cover article here which was a huge step in understanding our history and what that means for us moving forward. It's something many of the women who have been *chosen* for membership in Delta Gamma are passionate about and work for in line with our values. This is one piece in a long process and I doubt it ends here for us or for the rest of sorority life (DG noted in a comment that the NPC has requested that all members examine ways to become more inclusive organizations). I understand that change can be hard but many of the younger alumnae and collegians have been doing as much of the work as we can within the institution to push for more inclusivity within DG and we’re grateful to see it be taken seriously. This isn’t pandering or virtue signaling but instead shows a commitment by DG to work to bring new members from all walks of life into our sisterhood.

I’m young and I accept that. I am not a mother yet and don’t know if I will have a daughter (though I hope!). I’m sure that would color my feelings, but not enough to change my view. I will lovingly raise my imaginary future daughter with the values DG and I share. I hope that when the time comes to join a sorority she and DG are a perfect fit and she will receive an invitation to join based on her own merit and character. She will still be a legacy to Delta Gamma and if she joins I will probably cry when I pin her with our shared anchor badge. The only thing that changes is that she and I will both know DG chose her for her and not because twenty-something years ago it also chose me.

Snaps x 100!

Here is the video I'm referencing. It's the first of three videos. The initial context is the Southern Baptist Convention because of a event that brought it about, but it goes far beyond that into academia, private association groups, etc.

Substitute the name of a sorority or NPC into the discussion and you'll see why I said what I said. I don't doubt the good intentions of anyone involved with DG (or any other group that decides to go this way). But the good intentions will probably not keep any sorority from experiencing the same fallout that has played out over and over again as they discuss at length.

https://youtu.be/YDFL3xwEEG8

Some of us were counting the minutes until an alum came on and spouted the party line. The older alums were not treated with respect. I saw several jeering, disrespectful posts aimed at them. Because of this, DG will certainly face more of a negative response than if these alums had truly received some respect. There was no kindness or gentleness.

Maybe you don't get it because you're young and not a mother. Why do you think the older women were upset? They have raised or are raising children who mean the world to them. DG meant the world to them too. But--these women will almost certainly dump DG if DG dumps their daughters. And then some self-righteous jerks will simply comment that DG must not have meant much to them.

Your 2 PNMs above? Of course, a chapter will chose PNM A, legacy or not. That has nothing to do with it. What moms were hoping for is for their daughters to be on the first bid list if they went to prefs. Women don't get many perks as alums but that was one that many alums counted on. This was done without a Convention or membership vote. Some small group decided to foist this on the membership and sneer at the members who didn't like it.

Maybe the next surprise from your HQ will go against what you think is right and let's see how you like that--

Why do you assume that I'm "spouting the party line" and not because I truly believe this is a step forward for an organization I've dedicated hours and hours of time and love to? That sort of condescension and disbelief that someone could truly agree with and appreciate the changes that have been made is not beneficial to any conversation whether on social media or on here. The fact that you were "counting the minutes" until someone came on here in support of the decision feels more like a lion waiting to pounce on someone rather than an honest wish to engage in measured discussion.

The fact is that DG's Executive Offices (EO*) has made plenty of decisions while I've been a member for almost 10 years that I do not agree with but what it hasn't done is change my feelings for the organization. Of course I understand that women are upset! It's a sudden and harsh change and I agree that the rollout of it in a public post rather than an email to all sisters before a social media announcement did little to help people feel that this decision was not made lightly. I agree that there were certainly some older alumnae who were not treated with respect and that is not in any way okay. Neither is their condescension to younger women as well. But a lot of responses have been engaging debates that may be heated but do not put down one another or throw the conversation off the rails.

I'm not discounting their feelings whatsoever and to do so is putting words in my mouth. Rather I am trying to respectfully share my opinion and why I am for the changes my organization is making. I've noted that I'm sure my feelings would be touched if I was a mother with a DG daughter and my acknowledgement of that seems to be missed. All I want to do is add the thoughts of someone who is actually a sister and actually relatively impressed by what the Fraternity is doing. Sorry if that's not what you're looking for here and only want an echo chamber for your own thoughts.

I believe the concept of Delta Gamma eliminating a sorority legacy policy that worked for generations, but is now found too confining, has merit. NPC groups have obviously evolved their Membership Selection Methods in many ways since 1851; how is this decision such a drag? Is DG really sacrificing a high tradition of legacy membership for something much worse? Not in my opinion.

To DGalumna:

No, we would rather have someone here who will actually be affected by the decision. At this point, you won't.

And we expected someone to come over here and expound and try to do damage control because of how horribly some alums were being treated on Facebook. We saw it, having been alerted by some horrified DG alums--no one was treated with respect or gentleness--and no doubt, some will never wear the anchor again.

Again, I acknowledge that some of the posts and comments truly went off the rails but it was not only young alumnae and not only older alumnae as well. No one should be saying nasty things to another sister and I'm not excusing any of them and I'm frustrated and hurt that some of them may very well abandon DG. I don't think anyone thinks that's beneficial to our sisterhood whether internally or externally.

There are still plenty of alumnae, young and old, who have commented in support of this decision. I'm not "doing damage control". I am here because the voice of one of the younger groups of women who are excited to see where DG goes seemed lacking and I wanted to share my thoughts. Clearly this is not wanted here. As for being affected, of course I'm still affected. I was the first woman in my extended family to join Greek life and was looking forward to the day my daughter could share my sisterhood. It's still a possibility! It's just not coming with the same expectations.

But what would I know? I'm obviously just a silly young woman who doesn't understand how the world works anyways. I hope that one of the many alumnae who do have daughters immediately affected by this and were in support of the change thinks to come over here and comment. I hope her reception will be better.

yeah...