NPC appoints Community College Task Force
 

NPC has appointed a task force to study the possibility of allowing groups to establish on community college campuses.

The only thing I see is if someone does move onto a 4 year, they may factor if they have their chapter on campus. But this is a really good idea.

The concept of “Community Colleges” vary so much from state to state. In some places they have become 4-year institutions, while in others they are often “feeder” 2-year schools for 4-year schools. And some HS seniors use them to pick up electives before entering 4-year schools. Many are used by non-traditional students, often older and part-time.
It’s a GREAT IDEA—anywhere Greek life can offer membership to students is a plus! But—there are lots of variables to consider.

I can think of many areas in which it is not a good idea.

One variable would be the right of any NPC group to opt-out of participation at the community college level should such participation become available. Changing/adapting may not work easily within the structure of some NPC member groups.
But it would open a door to build an additional kind of membership for NPC groups who are interested in the pursuit of the CC population.

Oh I don't think for a minute that it would be required. Just that a group would be able to if they wanted and it suited them to do it. Blinn and Texas A & M is really currently doing it - just with some fancy foot work called dual enrollment. So I can see where it could work in some places and not others. Right now, NPC prohibits it.

That situation is very different than a straight up Blinn student. Those students are Texas A&M students with an A&M student ID number (with all privileges herein). They are just taking a couple of their classes at Blinn, and a couple at A&M. It is very similar to the PACE program at UT, with part of the classes being taken at ACC. Those students are UT students.

There are straight up Blinn students and straight up ACC students - they are not allowed to rush (Because no university ID number).

That said, I have no problem with NPC groups choosing to expand to community colleges if they think it is the right fit and situation for their org. Just don't confuse the Blinn Team students as being "community college students".

I think this could irreparably harm sororities. Just think if a girl joins at a CC and then goes on to a University somewhere. Affiliating at the University chapter of the sorority is not a given. Most organizations allow the chapter to vote on all affiliations. Affiliating from one university to another can be difficult at highly desired chapters already. Adding CC students to the affiliation issue could result an ugly situation.

Community Colleges & Alpha Phi Omega (History)
 

For those of you that don't know, Alpha Phi Omega is a national co-ed community service fraternity based on Scouting (Not Social). Founded in 1925 by 14 men, 13 of which were in Social Fraternities at the time (and stayed active in their Socials).

By the 1950s, of the 300 or so charters, 2 or 3 were in Junior Colleges. As Alpha Phi Omega was hit by the anti-fraternity movement in the late 1960s and 1970s, it was viewed that spreading to Community Colleges might help save the fraternity. Approximately 40 or so chapters were chartered at 2-year schools over the late 1960s and early 1970s. Most died relatively quickly, and I believe all or almost all had gone inactive by the mid 1980s.

Alpha Phi Omega still does charter chapters at two year colleges, specifically within the last 10 years at Parkland College (which is 10 minutes from Illinois - Urbana Champaign and functionally is a feeder school, and for which the chapter at UIUC could supplement personnel at Rush ) and Georgia Military College which is sort of unusual with its main campus as a 2 year heavily ROTC school.

I think the other thing to consider that I don't have a good enough feeling for is the NPHC sororities and fraternities. If they have Undergrad *only* chapters based as a Community College, it might be an example of how an NPC chapter works, but the NPHC experiences are that houses and/or a wing of University Houses are *not* the traditional housing arrangement.

If the NPC *does* decide to allow Community Colleges to become part of their efforts, the situation that *might* work is probably more like the situation at University of Illinois. Open the U of Illinois chapter to women who are attending Parkland College and allow them to become part of the sorority. If the School does not own the house, then perhaps allow the Parkland College women to live there (and of course allow them to live in the house when the transfer).

But having NPC chapters chartered to a Community College, especially a CC not de facto associated with a 4 year school seems like an invitation to bad results.

Affiliating is already a problem between 4 year branches and main campuses. This would make it worse.

Agree. I also question the sorority experience if girls pledge for 'just' two years given that some will go on to schools without their sorority and others won't gain affiliation. (Even affiliation can be hard when it happens). Not that every freshman stays all four years, but the odds are much higher.

I think the transfer issue, as noted above and by thetalady, could become really messy, especially if girls target a specific sorority at the junior college because they want that sorority at State U rather than wanting that chapter because it feels like home.

I am also thinking about students who would pledge a group at a CC and then after graduating, transfer to a 4-year-college that does not have their group. Cue the whining about why they should be able to re-rush.

There are some community colleges here in Georgia that picked up some 4-year programs and then attempted to get NPCs. Crickets. I heard that one finally got an NPC group but it remains to be seen how that will work out.

A few NIC fraternities attempted expand to two year schools & community colleges back in the 1970s and the results were not successful.

(1) difficulty to have any continuity in a 2 year or non resident school
(2) the transfer problem
(3) small number of students with the financial means or time to participate
(4) few alumni interested in mentoring the groups.

I think the only one that survived was Sigma Pi at Vincennes University & that was mainly because they were founded there.

BAD IDEA

I'm glad to see they're exploring. I have great faith they will consider all these factors.

I've long been a fan of the community college first method, as I am convinced more people enroll in 4-year colleges than should, but as my sorority experience was so much a part of who I am today, I wondered how I could champion a route that didn't allow for membership.

There are hundreds of considerations, but it's good to see the concepts explored.

I think the difficulty with most 2-year schools is the commuter aspect. I commuted for years at a community college and it was hard to get students involved on campus because of it. No housing, no permanent meeting rooms, lots of turnover from year-to-year with the student body. I can see that being very difficult for bonding, ritual etc.

OTOH, you do see the student who pledges freshman year and is all gung-ho and active through sophomore year, and then as juniors and seniors, their studies get more intense, or a relationship gets more intense, and they start to pull away from the sorority. It could offer a path for those types of personalities.

I don’t like this idea. Most people move on from CC, so it’s sort of reinstating the idea that a sorority is temporary.

For years I have thought that the one way to make this work would be to have an organization that was not an NPC organization, but more of an NPC sponsored organization. A member this organization would get the basics of what it means to be in a sorority, do some philanthropy as a group, and then when they move on to a four year institution, they could go through recruitment and join an NPC group.

The question is whether these groups would be sponsored by a single NPC organization (in which the question as to whether this gives them any more rights to join that specific one versus the rest of the NPC) or by the NPC in general, and if so, how do you handle the size of the group?

Allowing it and having it be successful are 2 different things.

How many CC's have expressed an interest in having NPC's on campus? Or is the idea of being at CC's coming strictly from a number of NPC groups?

Thirdly, are there areas of the US [the South comes to mind] where numerous NPC moms bemoan the fact their CC-attending daughters aren't able to join an NPC group for 1-2 years before transferring to a 4-yr school? And sometimes, then, that these CC daughters may likely not be offered bids to Moms/Grandmoms NPC since DDs will not be full 4-year collegiate members? Thus the push for NPCs at CCs?

No, I do not think an individual group could sponsor. I think it would have to be non-partial to any group. As to size, I am reminded that the first three chapters of Sigma Kappa were at Colby to limit size of the chapter. Frankly, due to the commuter focus of most of these community colleges, I can't see many of these organizations being too big. But if that was the case, two chapters could be formed.

So basically Foobar CC would have Alpha Lambda chapter of Nu Pi Chi and Beta Omega chapter of Nu Pi Chi?

IMO there are areas of the US...the South comes to mind...where CC NPCs would likely host larger sized chapters due to higher student interest.

Hmmmm......why does Pandora's box come to mind?

No - she means 2 GLOs would form chapters if they were very big..

I like chapter A and chapter B of the same organization - not an NPC organization, but an NPC feeder organization.

Frankly, this idea of allowing NPC chapters at community colleges might be a very big can of worms because of the NPC policy against being a member of more than one organization. (Susie joins ABC sorority and then transfers to a campus that doesn't have a chapter of ABC. Or Susie isn't asked to affiliate. Or Susie doesn't feel she fits in with the chapter on the 4 year campus).

A bigger can of worms would be allowing membership in more than one organization to rectify the situations which might arise out of a community college policy. But I do think there is an opportunity to educate community college students about NPC organizations.

To riff on this idea, several NPHC organizations have affiliates for adults without degrees. The Zetas have their Amicae and the Sigma Gamma Rhos have their Philos.

Nothing binds these ladies to pledging those organizations if they ever enroll in and complete college.

So I could see an "Ivy Leaf Lady" at Elle M. Nop Community College graduating, transferring to Big State U., and knowing how to navigate Greek life because she was an Ivy Leaf Lady, but isn't required to join Alpha Phi. (Although maybe it should get her slightly more weight when considered.)

I could also see something like a Panhellenic Ladies League being successful, with PLL alumnae groups existing for those women who didn't go on to college, or to pledge in college....

But at the end of the day, I feel like coming to community colleges would be more of a financial decision for the individual members of NPC, and it wouldn't help them if NPC itself took on that responsibility.

Yes! You've articulated it much better than I did. Thank you.

If I was on this task force, I'd be moving to adjourn 30 minutes into the first meeting.

So far, we've thought of about 10 downsides with this idea, and maybe one upside...facilitating membership and a longer collegiate sorority experience for women who start at community colleges and transfer to schools where juniors may have a really hard time getting a bid. But then there's the affiliation issue, so even the upside gets complicated....

The affiliation problems would get vicious, especially if women expected automatic affiliation.

That’s exactly what I was thinking.

My question is, has this come up because there is a groundswell of women at CCs contacting NPC about establishing chapters? Or has it come up because NPC is afraid of losing members due to the crappy economy and amount of people out of work, who won’t be able to send their kids to a 4 year college let alone pay sorority dues.

My question as well. And this: when I was in college, the people I knew who went to CC's did so for financial reasons - big cost savings plus they often lived at home. If kids are going to CC's often to save money, will they have the money for sorority membership? (without a house, of course). And if they've living at home (sometimes up to 30-45 minutes away from what I've seen) or working part-time, will they have time for membership while in a CC?

I feel fortunate to have lived during an economic time when working to save money while attending a CC meant I could afford to join a sorority once I enrolled at a four year institution, instead of having to work during college to help my family pay for life necessities.

PRO:

1) More opportunities to women to have a sorority experience

2) Financial benefit to the GLOs by having more members


CON:

1) This is my #1 issue: Women who join at CC, transfer to a 4-year university and then re-rush and join a different sorority. No. No. and No.

2) Women who try to join a chapter at a CC and then attempt to affiliate at a flagship university with a highly-desired "top tier" chapter of that organization. This creates potential for even more attempts to game the system than we see already.

3) Affiliation at any transfer chapter is usually not guaranteed and this can cause upset. Then....see "Con #1" women then trying to rush somewhere else.

4) There's no guarantee that a woman who joined at the CC would continue on to 4-year university afterward. So we would then see a bunch of 2 year members disappear. Further, some (not all!) CC students are a bit aimless. They weren't ready for university and are still trying to find themselves. CC is a great strategy for those students! They may try out a few classes and realize college is not for them. That's totally ok; but, it does impact member retention and experience.

5) CC tend to have a higher proportion of non-traditional students. For example, we might see some middle-aged women trying to rush or whathaveyou. This isn't "terrible" in and of itself, but as we've all pointed out many times, what does that woman have in common with a bunch of 18-22 year olds? These students may also not have the time to commit, the financial means, etc etc etc.

6) CC are usually commuter campuses and don't have a traditional series of events such as sports, homecoming, etc. I'm not sure how GLOs would plug-in.

7) What about NIC fraternities? Are the sororities supposed to exist in a CC vacuum? Now, NPC doesn't "need" fraternities to operate; but, mixers and such are part of the Greek Life experience and NPCs at CC would be a bit lopsided.

8) Oversight. Who is going to be supervising these chapters? Many of our GLOs are already stretched thin on volunteers.

9) Where do we draw the line in terms of scholarship? If a woman who is studying for a professional certificate in culinary arts or auto body shop or private pilot's license allowed to rush even if those programs of study are not available in a 4-year university program? Or do we limit recruitment to women who are only currently enrolled in a university transfer pattern?

10) Finishing with my #2 issue: Liability. I can foresee having additional risk management issues from members who just figured that Greek Life is what they saw on TV. Sometimes, we need the greater Greek Life community to help us develop norms for conduct and behavior. Yes, of course there are RM problems at university, even with large Greek systems and a Fraternity and Sorority Life Office in place. But, I still feel concerned that the CC would be something of a new frontier where there's not enough structure or community norms to inform these chapters on acceptable behavior.

THere is a task fore researching this and reaching out to all NPC groups for input. I suggest you send your thoughts to your group's Council membership/extension officer.

This is my bet for winner winner chicken dinner.

Four year colleges are in trouble. They were in trouble before the coronavirus. Now?

Look at how much colleges and universities are struggling with just one semester going out of whack financially. What are they going to do if enrollment drops a steady 8-10% over the next few years? Sure, some of them will be fine because there will always be enough families with money to send their kids to school. But there aren't enough of them to keep all these schools afloat indefinitely, including the Greek organizations on them.

I wondered a while back if some of the NPC groups were trying to pivot a bit for the future based on rebranding, verbiage, etc. Not even just to keep up with the times, but to be viable as a woman's organization if things went sideways with college enrollment and cultural trends.

I have nothing against community colleges. My daughter may very well start at one. I lived at home and commuted to a Big Ten university so I have nothing against commuter students either. But putting NPC organizations on community college campuses is one of the most daft ideas I've seen floated on this board lo these many years.

If the NPC groups think they need to go to community colleges to survive, sorority life as we've known it is basically done.

Andthen or any other older Penn State people- didn’t there used to be a fraternity that had mini chapters at all the branches and when they got to Main they all were in the fraternity?

A few years ago Indiana’s community college system called Ivy Tech (I’m NOT fond of the name!) had millions of dollars poured into it...new buildings, etc. It hurt the larger 4-year schools—IU, Purdue, etc.—but it made sense to the state: Ivy Tech was much cheaper, no libraries, dorms, unions, auditoriums to fund. The state also allowed them to expand to include some 4 year programs, again hurting larger established colleges.

For some time Ivy Tech ran ads showing attractive young high-school age students. One girl said to another: “But they don’t have sororities!” to which the girl replied something like: “it’s still easy to meet new people” while eyeing a cute boy at a nearby table.

In spite of this, and having taught at a community college very early on, I just don’t think many sorority nationals (or internationals) are going to be happy to plant their flag at Possum Crick Community College and have it listed with the likes of century-old chapters at NYU, Berkeley, Stanford, Texas, Ole Miss, etc.

Go ahead—pile on me for being elitist, but I just can’t see it—too many years of rich tradition at seasoned, highly-rated institutions from coast to coast.

It may be elitist, but it's also accurate.

I was on staff with campus ministry in my mid 20s. Trying to establish work on community college campi is very challenging for the staff who take that on (not me). If it's hard enough to establish a solid Bible study cluster and large group with leadership continuity, how in the world do you establish a sorority and all that entails (leadership development, sisterhood, etc.)?

No way this works. Like I said, if NPC groups go this way then we're witnessing the end of sororities as we think of them. They can become glorified women's groups, but that will be it. NPC would be better off pushing for more alumnae initiates if they are really worried about numbers and viability.

How old are we talking here? I graduated from Behrend in 2006, and as far as I know, a group like this didn't exist. Unless they were operating SUPER underground and no one knew who they were. lol.