School Mascots
 

Here at San Diego State University, after nealy 105 years of being nicknamed "the Aztecs" and having our mascot, Monty Montezuma for another considerable number of years, Mecha and their racist leader Ron Gochez made a big fuss that our mascot is "culturally insensitvie". So we put it to a vote. Overwhelmingly, the students decided to keep the mascot, basically telling Gochez to shut his pie hole. But our Dean, Dr. Weber, who most of the time has his head up his ass, decided to get rid of Monty anyway.

So the next year (2001), they came out with an "ambassador". The guy looked like a huge pineapple, and was ridiculed by the media and alumni and........well, anyone who saw him. So they decided to ditch him.

Now, a private organization has brought back Monty at football games, much to the delight of SDSU fans (myself included). Gochez and Mecha called the organization ignorant.

So, after a 3 yr fiasco which really didn't need to be fought, especially with our school having more important issues that are never addressed, we're basically back to where we started: Monty's here, albeit unofficially (he's not recognized by SDSU), and Mecha is bitching again.

My question is, how do you feel when any organization or person says that a native American mascot is "culturally insensitive"?

Re: School Mascots
 

I feel that they are 100% accurate.

I go to Florida State. Home of the Seminoles. And I detest the mascot.

Yes, the pregame ritual with Osceola and Renegade gives one chills. Yes, doing the Tomahawk chop at the games is awesome. But the symbolism is horrible.

When this thread gets heated (and trust me, it will), I will definitely elaborate.

Its a pc world out there. i am sure in my life time all offensive team names that are race related will be gone. Most the schools have gotten rid of the name rebels with a few exceptions. I know Valdosta used to be the Rebels up to the early 70's I believe. We are the Blazers now. The school just changed it without any debate because they were starting to have problems at games because people were coming to the games with confederate flags. Schools just don't like controversy or getting sued.

University of Houston’s mascot is a cougar named Shasta. I feel this name is grossly insensitive to all people that enjoy the fine sugar based beverages produced by the Shasta bottling company.

LONG LIVE MONTY!!!!

:D

This is a really big issue... It's something that really reflects the changing values of our society. Everyone is supposed to be happy and everyone has the right not to be offended -- or so PC culture states. This is one of those areas where there just isn't a lot of middle ground to be found. I get a little bit perturbed when I see years and years of tradition thrown away because someone got offende... But I can understand.

Will FSU change its mascot? Probably not... Too much $$ involved. Has the Seminole Nation tried sueing for royalties or something though?

Well, what about non-Native American mascots, like the Vikings? Do those of northern European descent feel that is inflammatory? Or what about the Wizards... does that insult Wiccans? I don't mean this rudely at all, I just think that everything could possibly insult SOMEONE so it is hard for the general public to know where to draw the line.

Indiana U of PA was called (for obvious reasons) the Indians...this was deemed un-PC, and they changed the mascot to a bear named Cherokee, but still kept the Indians name. (no, I don't understand that either) Now they are actually thinking of changing it to the "Fighting Squirrels." No offense to the AGD's, but I just can't see being intimidated by a squirrel.

Elon was the "fightening Christians", before we went Division I, NCAA made us change our name because they felt that it was not PC enough-- even though Elon is a united-church of christ affiliated school in the southern bible-belt. So now, we are the Phoenix...an imaginary bird that rose from the ashes or something like that.

Yes, because these are clearly the same thing. :rolleyes:

You guys minimize the issue, but I bet y'all would be (publicly) aghast if we were speaking about something like oh...say...an African-American or Latino mascot? Hmm. Notice I said publicly.

The whole idea is that the "traditions" and symbolism that these schools carry out are not only stereotypical, they are also FALSE. Native Americans did not SCALP people. They were not SAVAGES.

And as for Seminoles, the portrayal of the mascot is not even accurate. Why? Because the face emblem that is on all of the paraphenalia is clearly of a white individual. The Seminoles were a collective group of powerful Native American tribes as well as RUNAWAY SLAVES. The began as only 300 people who were able to escape the white man. The word SEMINOLE itself means "runaway."

http://www.seminoletribe.com/history/introduction.shtml

http://dhr.dos.state.fl.us/flafacts/seminole.html

Sororitygirl2, apples and oranges.

btw, PM_Mama, how did I know this topic would bring you out of the woodwork?

I seriously doubt I would get bent of shape at least I know I am not bothered by the Fighting Whites.

I'm glad our mascot is just a big cat...

I figured out how to end this stupidity at SDSU: have our nickname be the "Asian Guys Who Were Born In San Diego And Are Delta Sigs Named Stan". The ONLY, ONLY person that could POSSIBLY offend is me, and I couldn't give a rats @$$.

Yeah, I'm glad ours is an extraordinarily inoffensive badger.

Personally, I think it's annoying that people are getting so bent out of shape over the whole mascot issue (and where are all those people of Irish descent getting mad about the "stereotypical" portrayal of the Notre Dame mascot?). Yes, it does play on stereotypes, but is there anyone out there who believes that Native Americans really did do the Tomahawk chop? I doubt it. We get enough PC-influenced history lessons from the minute we enter elementary school (or I did, at least) that I knew Christopher Columbus was a bad man before I even knew what he DID.

At the same time, everything that promotes racially-based stereotypes is going to have to go eventually, so it might as well be sooner rather than later.

I think the whole changing-mascot-names thing gets a bad rap too because whenever a school decides to change their mascot from the Braves/Indians etc., they always pick something really really dumb, like "the Fighting Squirrels" or a giant pineapple. If these schools would pick some decent mascot to replace the old one, people would care a lot less about it being replaced.

And who remembers the article about the Devil's Lake Satans changing their name?

Never thought I'd be able to say I'm glad our mascot is a big ugly bird...:rolleyes: Go Cardinals :confused:

Our mascot is the mule.

Try being intimidated by the sterile mix of a horse and an ass. :cool:

It is a pretty non-offensive term though except for the fact that we can't yell out "kick some ass" at games because that would sort of mean "kick some mules" and that wouldn't be good. ;)

Well, Steeltrap, Chloe, Enna, SC_Honey, Newbie, GPhiBLtColonel and I are all:

TROJANS.


Should we be offended that condoms bear the same name and that we get endlessly teased about this by our rivals?

LOL


this is not to make light of this issue, but i do think our society takes the whole pc thing too far too often these days. its just a mascot, it was chosen likely for its STRENGTH and ability to convey the image the school wanted to its competitors--and isn't that a GOOD thing, rather than a degrading thing?

Haha,

Gig 'em Aggies!!!
Farmers Farmers Fight!!

Seriously, librasoul, i am with you 100%. My personal bane in the whole situation centers with the Redskins. Can you imagine the uproar we'd have if an expansion team decided to call itself the Darkies?

Now, i am not aiming to offend anyone out there, but to me, someone who is proud of their Native American heritage, having a team named the Redskins is akin to having a team named the N*****s.

Kitso
KS 361 threads that i predict this post will generate

My school mascot has definetly gotten alot of heat over the years and it still continues to be a big debate on campus. I'm at university of Illinois and our mascot is "chief illiniwek." Usually not a week goes by when we don't have an editorial about this issue in our paper.

Political correctness runs amok
 

While I agree that there may be some inappropriate names/mascots/sayings/etc...come on!! Most of these were created at a time to HONOR those goups or individuals. Get rid of the bad and keep the good. I think it showcases them-----show your pride!

In Oklahoma, the fans still miss "Lttle Red" that was present at all the football games....because he dared to show off his heritage? And yet they still are called Sooners which was a testament to those that broke the law during the land run!!

You guys are totally missing the issue. It is not at ALL about being PC and more about neglecting someone's history. To whoever said that people know that Seminoles did not do the Tomahawk chop...um...wrong. It is a very popular misconception that Seminoles went around with their tomahawks and scalped the white men. That is totally inaccurate.

And to the person who thinks that potraying Christopher Columbus as a "bad man" is just "PC"....uh...riiiiight. Do you think that he discovered America? Do you think that he is a great man? Honestly, I am not sure when teaching about the truth became too PC. :confused:

"Most of these were created at a time to HONOR those goups or individuals."

Riiiiight. I am always honored when misconceptions about my ethnicity are heralded and perpetuated.

To ALLLLL the people who have compared Native American to soft drinks, pirates, and yes, even condoms...can you see how this is just a terrible argument?

Fighting Squirrels!
 

If this intimidates you, you need should seek immediate medical advice! ;) :D

http://www.thesquirrelstore.com/more...Product_ID=133

Funny I thought it was a joke but you’re obviously way to defensive about this subject to have a sense of humor. I did however notice you avoided to comment on my Fighting Whites post.

Hmm..the people who complain about these sorts of things would have a hayday here. We have the Black Knights (not even going there), Rebels (confederate flags and all, yeehaw), Marauders (the great ole men who raped women and pillaged towns) and my own college has a spanish name (misprounced at that...) and has a 'Redman' as a mascot.
Thank God my hs mascot was a Blue Devil/Angel. Then again..if you had real bible-beaters as parents they hated that. *shrugs*

Re: School Mascots
 

ROFLMAO thinking about this goofy, pineapple shaped "ambassador" dude walking around shaking hands and welcoming people to the game. That is TOO funny.

Seriously, though, I can totally understand why people get upset by "culturally insensitive" mascots. The Illinois mascot for example -- what bothers me is that you have a person dressed up as a stereotypical Indian doing stereotypically "Indian" dances and stuff, and I do think it's insulting. There are millions of inoffensive mascots to choose from, and so I don't think changing should be a big deal. It would have been even less of a big deal if the University had changed it as soon as it became an issue instead of being so darn stubborn.

As for the "tradition" argument, there are plenty of things that were traditional in our society that we no longer do. Times change and we need to adapt to things as they are now.

Mine is ok. The Knights.

One of my favorite is Florida Atlantic University's. No offense to anyone who goes there (please, please don't flame me...I have much love for FAU...I went there for a summer semester and I grew up in Boca...I think the school is great...just not the mascot).
They are the Owls. Can you just imagine when their football team starts to make it big? I can see the opponents taunting the FAU students with hoo! hoo! hoo!

and not all Irish are "Fighting" and we aren't all short people with knickers on and redhair/beards but I am not demanding that Notre Dame change its Mascot

Soooo...does that make it better? Because the Irish are not protesting? Explain your logic please. I am not demanding hat anyone change their mascot. I just think it is totally insensitive. Besides, realisitically, it ain't gonna happen.

And Kevlar, I am not that sensitive, believe me. I know it was a joke. There are many people, however, who really use that kind of logic and roll their eyes at this topic. And yeah, I checked your site. I didn't really comment on it because I am not trying to start yet another racial debate.

BUTTTT since you brought it up, lol. Not many white people would be offended by that. Why? Because whites have been the majority and in power since this country's founding. So it doesn't really have the same affect that it does on other cultural groups.

ZTAngel...I am now mopping off my monitor from the Aquafina I spit...thanks for the laugh! :D

This thread has something to do w/ prejudism? :confused:

LIONLOVE, What is wrong with MULES?:confused:

Brother Adams of Lamar Mo was reknowned for His Mules world wide.

In Fact CMoU has the same Mascot! 1 st I heard of anyone else being a Mule!;)

Hell, How Would You Like To Be A GORRILLA in Kansas?:eek:

I Love this as the SOONERS of some team in Oaklahoma were the claim jumpers for land!

Washburn U in Topeha Ks, the Ichobods, what the hell is an IckyBod! God use to get in fights over that! HEHE!:D

I get heated up when the Original Americans get upset when Schools have Indian Types as Mascots as it was chosen as something of honor not being a snub to those proud people!

LOL. Nah, but it seems she only comes around nowadays if there is a race-related topic.

Tom Earp, if they are paying tribute, they can be a little less stereotypical and a little more accurate. And you getting heated over topics of ethnicity is nothign new. Sigh.

Exactly, a topic that has to do with prejudism.

Guess what thread I'm rereading. Does anyone want me to bump it? :D

Libra, what the heck are you talking about?

These are facts not getting heated for a debate.

Ethniticity does not have a thing to do with my post!

If You would be so kind as to explain what you are taliking about, I would appreciate it?

What does that have to do with this thread anyway! I am English and Irish and what ever else may have been thrown in over the many years.

Being an Ohio University Bobcat, I hate to admit that Ohio State does anything right -- but maybe having a mascot (the Buckeye) that is a tasteless, scentless nut with no apparent social value is a really good idea.

LOL, nothing wrong with mules. They are strong creatures albeit a little stubborn and it does make sense that they are our mascot because my school is named Muhlenberg. We just got sick of the ass jokes so we now tell them ourselves to beat our opponents to the punch. :p

I was actually using your own words...you said you get heated about this topic...here:

Actually the topic does have to do with ethnicity. You know...it is kinda important.

I have to agree with LibraSoul and Valkrie here...

In reading the posts, I think some of the arguments are a bit flawed because they are comparing different factors.

Fighting Irish: well I actually DID believe when I was very young that all Irish were red-nosed alcoholic racists. If the Irish wanted to protest that Notre Dame mascot, I wouldn't fault them for it. The fact that they have little problem with it is not germane to the debate--it just means they don't have a problem with it.

Mascots generally: I have no issue with many of the "Indian mascots." ( as a 1/8 Native American). I can sympathize with those who DO have an issue with such mascots however, and that's what cultural sensitivity means to me...that simply because "I" don't always "get it" doesn't mean it's not a relevant "issue" to be discussed and debated.

"Honoring" people through mascots: I also think this argument is debatable. Everything promoted as a "brand" is not an honorable promotion. In the retail world, the guy on the Cream of Wheat box, Aunt Jemima, Little Black Sambo/Sambo's Restuarants (who was actually Indian anyway), Darky Toothpaste....these were products that earned millions of dollars, people loved 'em...but they were not "honoring" black folks by putting black faces on them. Although mascots are different from retail, I don't necessarily buy the argument that mascots were always created to "honor" the group from which they are named--sometimes yes, other times, no.

Tradition is important, and I for one respect and honor traditions. By the same token, respecting traditions to the point of irretractable behavior can be sometimes be synonymous with being “resistant to change”. Change happens. Humans evolve. We once thought the world was square, that black people were savages, that only certain people should get an education, that masturbation caused hairy palms and insanity...the list is endless--and there are still folks out there that still believe some of these things! That which we said or did 50 years ago does not always seems as appropriate now. That's life. With those changes I agree with, I will support. With those I do not, I will not. But I never question anyone's right to try to change those things that are offensive or uncomfortable for them, because it is only through the process that humans continue to evolve.

Some excellent points, Shelacious.

Personally I think it's a difficult decision to make because some of the race-based mascots are obviously offensive, whereas others aren't. I feel like the "Redskin" as a mascot is definitely offensive, whereas "Seminole," "Aztec" or "Indian" are all decidedly less so, depending on context (what the mascot looks like, etc.). And although many of you think the idea of comparing Native American mascots to, say, the Pirates or the Fighting Irish is ridiculous, every Native American mascot that is changed just opens up the door to more and more people believing that some other mascot is offensive. If we allow every one of the race-based mascots to be changed, it's just going to open up the floodgates to more and more ridiculous charges -- that the Fighting Irish is a prejudiced name (whoever said that it isn't because the Irish are white and hold power obviously doesn't remember the long history of prejudice the Irish faced in this country), etc. So where do we draw the line at trying to find perfectly politically correct mascots?