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-   -   Regarding 'shameless plugs' (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=24407)

PenguinTrax 10-03-2002 05:18 PM

Regarding 'shameless plugs'
 
I know everyone really loves their sorority/fraternity/chapter and I know that deep down, we all kind of wish that each and every PNM would join 'our' group. But, reality is that each PNM must make her own decision, based on her own experiences during recruitment.

Please keep in mind that although you mean well with 'shameless plugs' for your sorority, it can put some stress on an already stressful situation for a PNM. Just as we would like each PNM to respect the recruitment process of each chapter on their campus by keeping their selections/invitations anonymous, please respect the PNM's right to choose their home, without outside influence. And if that PNM's final decision is contradictory to opinions voiced earlier in the week, then that again is a good reason why chapter identities and shameless plugs should be kept as vague and as positive as possible. I would hate to find out that a PNM's experience in real life was negatively impacted by comments made on GC, however innocent. It has happened before (and no, I won't go into details and I hope longtime GC members will refrain from doing so as well).


Each chapter of each group is different. Each groups recruitment/member selection process is different. They all deserve our respect.

Thanks for listening!

2017law 10-04-2002 09:08 PM

How are the shameless plugs not Rush violations? How is even "speaking" to these women not a Rush violation?
Just something I've been pondering as a former PX.
Thanks,
2017

kddani 10-04-2002 09:19 PM

ummm... how COULD they be a rush violation? Unless it's someone from that specific chapter and school.

I'm an alumna, none of the girls on here are rushing at my school, etc. How could that be a rush violation? When someone's rushing it doesn't mean that they can't talk to ANYONE greek. What if their mom is a member? Does that mean that they can't talk to their mom during rush?

bruinaphi 10-04-2002 10:14 PM

You are totally missing the point, which is that it is okay for them to speak to greek people who are not involved in recruitment at their school, but it is NOT okay for those people to be recruiting them for their organization.

kddani 10-04-2002 10:27 PM

I'm not disagreeing with the original point or "totally missing" it.
What I said was in response to what 2017law said about talking to them being rush violations. I don't specifically recall anyone from a greek org at a school talking with a PNM at that school on here. Also the way it was phrased made me think that it was thought that anyone from a greek org speaking to anyone rushing was a "rush infraction".
There's also a difference b/w a "shameless plug" and "recruiting" someone for their org. I never disagreed with anything along those lines.

GPhiBLtColonel 10-05-2002 12:52 AM

This is one time....
 
...I will have to respectfully disagree with you Barbara -- and I am shocked that I do disagree with you as everything I have read from you up till this point I have pretty much agreed with...But not this time...perhaps my advancing years have dulled my comprehension of your point -- I am not as "sharp" as I used to be, but honestly I fail to see how saying in a post "Go Gamma Phi" or "Yay Zeta" or "I Love Theta" or "Alpha Xi Delta is the best" or whatever can negatively influence a rushee...I don't understand how that can put stress on an already stressful time...and I don't get how a shameless plug disrespects a rushee's right to choose her own sorority at her college campus. Personally, I do NOT want every PNM whose rush thread I read on GC to become a member of my sorority -- some of the women exhibit traits in their posts that I'd just as soon my sorority do without! :eek: I'm thinking that if what you've said is taken to the next step, all of our GC handles and signatures should be totally vanilla & plain...after all, those too are shameless plugs.
I think that PNMs log onto GC for a reason -- they are seeking something from Greeks like you and I -- whether it's advice, or another perspective, or a shoulder to cry on, or shared happiness, or the benefit of wisdom & experience or whatever -- I'd like to think that these women will not be harmed by a little shameless plug...I'd like to think they will be impressed by the pride each of us so rightly has in our own sororities...because that after all is what propels us to make a shameless plug in the first place, isn't it?

:)

sweetie adpi 10-05-2002 01:55 AM

pride can go in a signature... pride can be shown in many ways --that aren't a complete waste of space like shameless plugs are. sorry if anyone is offended...

Unregistered- 10-05-2002 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sweetie adpi
pride can go in a signature... pride can be shown in many ways --that aren't a complete waste of space like shameless plugs are. sorry if anyone is offended...
I was thinking the same thing, but I can understand both sides...

I noticed that in many of the Rush threads, many GCers added:

"And I'm going to add my shameless plug..."

Seriously, is that really necessary?

Many of us have our letters in our signatures, and to be honest, I see nothing wrong in saying "GO AGD!" or "GO XYZ!", etc. That shows a lot of pride for our organizations, but adding those plugs and directing it towards a PNM just because she has that GLO on her campus is not cool at all, in my opinion.

The way I see it, a GC PNM probably won't make her decision based on a plug. Barb, you were right when you said that chapters aren't the same on every campus.

I've received PMs from members who were hurt as to how their sororities were ranked and thought of by a few PNMs..and I can understand how feelings are hurt...and I'm glad that most of the PNMs have been honest and vague about their experiences with their respective sororities on their campus.

I never went through a really competitive Rush, so I could only imagine how it would be to be a PNM on GC...trying to post honest feelings without hurting anyone, having to read these plugs even though she might not get a positive impression of that GLO during her rush experience.

Thanks Barbara for bringing this up for discussion!

KappaKittyCat 10-05-2002 09:38 AM

[soapbox]

I'm guilty of a few shameless plugs in my day. But now I'm doing my best not to add anything to the rush story threads unless I have something truly substantive to say. They're long enough as it is (in a good way)!

Look at all our signatures. There are only a few of us who do not have our letters somewhere in them. If a PNM scrolls back through older threads, she sees how joyfully each woman is welcomed into her new family by her sisters on GC. She realizes that, wherever she goes, we're going to be happy for her.

We don't know the situation on each campus. And now that I think about it, I feel very bad having made a "shameless plug" for Kappa, only to see the woman be cut the very next day. I feel like that's going against my sisters on that campus in some fundamental way. Yes, I'm disappointed that I'm not going to be able to welcome another Kappa into our "Gamma Chi" chapter. But honestly, they know better than I. See the story of "Mike the Pike" on the Weird Rush Stories thread and you'll know what I mean. It's not right for someone who's not in the situation to be second-guessing. And ultimately, I am very happy for the women who wind up wherever they are.

Like I said, I'm guilty of the very same thing. But I'm going to encourage everybody once again to think before you post! Consider the impact of your words. I for one would rather err on the side of caution than find sometime down the road that my seemingly innocuous "Shameless Plug" was the source of pain or confusion for one or more of our GC PNMs.

[/soapbox]

Lady Pi Phi 10-05-2002 10:59 AM

While I'll admit that I too have made a "shameless plug" and I'll agree that we should watch what we say to PNM's, I was just wondering if there are and PNM's or former PNM's out there that have been offended and/or influenced by any of the "shamless plugs" that have been made on GC. It seems to me that those that are bringing up this issue are Alum and Actives. Are there really PNM's out there that are finding this an issue or are we being overly sensitive?


PPL,

Emily

greeklawgirl 10-05-2002 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
I was just wondering if there are and PNM's or former PNM's out there that have been offended and/or influenced by any of the "shamless plugs" that have been made on GC.

Emily, while I don't know if there have been PNMs that have been influenced by shameless plugs...I do know of several instances where indiscrete comments on Rush threads have lead to enormous amounts of pain for the PNM and the GC sisters. No details here, but there was one rushee in particular that I feel terrible for...her situation singlehandedly stopped my *shameless plugs* cold in its tracks.

2017law 10-05-2002 11:48 AM

In terms of being a rush violation, here is 1 example, there are others, namely the UF thread, where GCers and PNMs have sought each other out and remained in contact during rush.

Quote:

Originally posted by gphiangel624
Just to update everyone... Annie emailed me and she hasn't been able to get on GC because the dorm computers aren't working to well yet! But she's trying to get back on here!

And guess what?! I met Annie in person last night! I was working at Block Party, an event for all new students to see our student orgs and such, and she looked for me and found me! I can tell she's a total sweetheart and my sisters and I cannot wait for her to go through recruitment!

Annie- hurry up and get your computer fixed before rush starts! You know everyone is dying to know how it goes!

Carol

This is just me defending my statement with evidence to back it up. Sorry if too law school-ish, it's consumed my life for a year and a half.

~2017 ;)

cash78mere 10-05-2002 12:55 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with OTW.

There is no problem with saying 'i love AXO' or 'AXO was the best choice for ME' but adding a shameless plug (which isn't really shameless at all) can be upsetting if a PNM has a certain GLO at heart and has GC members saying "GO AXO!!!" and she really thinks she has AXOs support and then gets dropped the next round. (just to use AXO as an example and boy---that was a long run-on sentence!) plus, it really is kinda tacky.

we have to remember that PNMs are easily swayed and influenced. i know i was. they may really like a GC member and be swayed by their feelings and it may not be a perfect match for them like it is for the GC member.

aephi alum 10-05-2002 01:48 PM

I admit to having done the occasional shameless plug, and I hope they didn't hurt anyone. I've put the brakes on, though... I can see where it would be hurtful for a PNM who's just been cut by XYZ to visit her rush thread and read "Go XYZ!"

Is anyone really going to pick their GLO because one of us posted a shameless plug? (visions of checking someone's rush thread and reading "I listed AEPhi first on my pref card because aephi alum posted a shameless plug on GC" :p ) I think all the PNMs who've shared their experiences with us here realize that they should be comfortable with their own chapter, and not join a group simply because they like one or two people on a chat board whom they may never meet in real life. And that means the plugs are not really necessary.

HotDamnImAPhiMu 10-05-2002 02:10 PM

I think the type of pride we display on here is fine. The PNMs know we're going to be excited about our organizations, and encourage them to give our individual groups a try -- I mean, they'd be disappointed if we didn't! Why would you want to join a group whose members are lukewarm about their bond?

If the PNMs are that sensitive about things, maybe they want to hold off on the GreekChat until they've found their place in the greek system.

ON THE OTHER HAND -- I'm not sure about GreekChat being a forum for people to meet at a school. If I met a girl on here who went to Virginia Commonwealth University, and I PMed her and tried to meet up with her, or used our relationship on GreekChat to try and convince her to go Phi Mu....... well, I'd feel horrible. It'd be a true violation of the rush system, which is designed to give everyone a chance to see things equally.

That's the beauty of GreekChat, though -- you'll never meet most of the people who post on here. That can encourage unusual honesty, disrespect, and a whole host of other things.

I just think the PNMs know what they're getting into when they post on a site called "GreekChat."

gphiangel624 10-05-2002 06:33 PM

My response
 
Quote:

Originally posted by 2017law
In terms of being a rush violation, here is 1 example, there are others, namely the UF thread, where GCers and PNMs have sought each other out and remained in contact during rush.



This is just me defending my statement with evidence to back it up. Sorry if too law school-ish, it's consumed my life for a year and a half.

~2017 ;)

Let me just say, in positive response, that Annie (Shark in Skirt) emailed me after discovering I was a member of a Greek Organization at UCR. I, having been a Recruitment Counselor last year and having been EXTREMELY careful about "pre-rushing" PNMs, was quite hesitant in responding to her. First of all, we haven't started the "silence period" yet- it is perfectly OK on my campus to speak to PNMs. Needless to say, I am not a rude person. If I receive an email from a PNM (who by the way, was able to get my email address because it's on my GC profile) who is interested in Recruitment in general, I will be kind enough to answer her questions, direct her to the proper Panhellenic people to talk to, and possibly assist her with any questions/problems she's having as a new freshman at my university. Annie has emailed me to let me know she's been enjoying life at UCR thus far, that she's met lots and lots of girls from DIFFERENT sororities and has enjoyed their company, that she's more excited about UCR than she thought she'd be. She understands the recruitment rules, as do I. The only times I've ever even seen Annie have been 1) at a Student Life sponsored event where all the sororities were represented and she seeked me out, we introduced ourselves, she continued meeting people from all the other organizations. 2) she came into my office (where Greek life is housed) to turn in a Recruitment application, I just happened to be working front desk and she recognized me. She said hi, I said hi, have a good weekend, and she was on her way. I have never even once attempted to "rush" her for my specific organization- I have various close friends in other orgs who would be just as lucky to have someone as wonderful as Annie in their organization... and you know what, no matter where she ends up, she'll still be my sister in Panhellenic, and that's all that matters to me.

This my actual job on campus: to assist any and all (especially new) students to become acquainted with the Student Organizations on my campus. If those organizations that the student is interested in happen to be GLOs, I will give my best knowledge and advice to those students. For everyone's information, I am the only student employee (of 12 in my office) that has agreed to not wear anything Greek-related, including my own letters, on the job, so as not to inadvertently recruit students or scare away those who are intimidated by social Greeks. The other 6 students who are members of social Greek orgs can wear whatever they want and speak of their organizations at any time.

On my campus, there are numerous actions that can be written as recruitment infractions. My chapter was wrongly accused last year of an infraction, yet we still did the deeds we were asked to do in order to clear it. This year, like every other, every NPC chapter is searching out behavior that will lead to another chapter getting an infraction. It's ridiculous, childish, and makes recruitment look like a bunch of, excuse me, b*tches out for blood, when aside from Fall Recruitment, the six chapters represented on my campus are extremely close and favorable of one another- we have wonderful Panhellenic unity, until it's time to bust someone.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding overly-defensive, but I have never once "dirty rushed" anyone, and because an interested PNM has emailed me asking me questions about rush in general, about the university, about Panhellenic, that doesn't mean I'm dirty rushing anyone- it's not against the rules whatsoever. I've never called/emailed/etc Annie in order to dirty rush her. She's gone out with her suitemates because she's independent and willing to meet everyone, and I wouldn't doubt if other chapter members have put in their own "shameless plugs" directly to her face- but isn't that what we want: a good name for our own organization?

Lastly, I think if GCers are concerned about how a shameless plug may affect what a GC PNM will choose in terms of chapters, then a) don't give shameless plugs (I know I'm guilty of them, too and I can stop as easy as anyone else) and b) encourage PNMs to not mention chapter names or clues that give away chapter names in their rush threads. Most of them have been kind enough all ready to do so. I don't think anyone should be hurt if a PNM does not choose your chapter- chapters vary by school as we all know and the comments made by PNMs about chapters are only first impressions... believe me, if I only went by first impressions, my best friends would not be members of a sorority that I dropped after round one. The girls that I didn't like then are now some of my best friends... don't take little comments to heart.

Again, I'm sorry if this comes off as defensive, but one comment can seem to bring on numerous allegations that just aren't true. And again, PnquinTrax, thanks for bringing up this discussion. I think we should all be just a little more careful of what we say and do- words and actions are consistently misinterpreted. I'm not even going to post my signature until recruitment at UCR is over, just in case.

;)

RubberSoul 10-05-2002 08:24 PM

I agree that maybe we should back off with the "shameless plug" thing. I feel that we should take our cues from the PNM. If they happen to go to ABC, and you are an ABC and they say how much they liked it there and really hope to get into that house, there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "Oh I'm so glad you liked ABC, that rocks...." or something to that effect. And as for the signatures that many of us have, that shouldn't be a problem. It's simply a matter of choosing your words carefully.......

GammaPhiBabe 10-05-2002 08:49 PM

Quote:

I'm doing my best not to add anything to the rush story threads unless I have something truly substantive to say.
I agree with this. I don't see how my saying "Go Gamma Phi!" (when it's a PNM I have never even met!) helps things. These posts just clog up the board and make the rush threads go on and on for pages. I read rush threads to hear about the PNM's experience and what rush is like at different schools, not to read 5 pages of GC members' comments about their own sororities. Besides, my letters are in my signature and my screen name. It's pretty obvious what sorority I'll be rooting for! :)

I think that it could really make a PNM feel bad if she has just been cut by her favorite house, XYZ, and she really doesn't fit in at ABC. Then when she comes back here to post, there are umpteen people posting "I hope you loved XYZ!!" and "GO ABC!!"

Why don't we limit our posts in the rush threads to constructive/helful advice or encouragement to the PNM who is being so kind as to give us a window to her experience.

Just my .02...

:)

aprilxo 10-05-2002 10:23 PM

I'm not sure I have much to add, but it makes me glad to see other people concerned about this as well. Not so much that it has stood out as a problem to me, but that others are thinking about what they say and its effect on PNMs. If members of our orgs on those campuses are not allowed to outright recruit, then even if we post pride (which is good!) it shouldn't be pointed at recruiting (which has potential to be bad).

If we just blatantly used GC as an outlet for propaganda for our own orgs with no self-regulation, it could probably get pretty messy. But on the other hand, if it was mandated, GC would no longer be an open place to discuss Greek life (which makes me glad that that's not the issue at hand!:)) . Moreover, if it didn't matter at all for members of other chapters to "plug," then one chapter could use another chapter's members to discuss the sorority with a PNM on GC to recruit with out a detectable "infraction." But from what I've seen that's not a worry. I trust you guys and gals--overall I consider GC to be full of pretty respectful people.

Greek love,
April :)

Shark In Skirt 10-05-2002 11:16 PM

As a PNM who is about to rush next week, I can honestly say that "shameless plugs" have no effect on me whatsoever... and I have a hard time imagining that these affect anybody with half of a braincell. If rushees are really taking to heart what is being said on a public internet forum so much as to have their decisions swayed, then perhaps those are the rushees are a bit weak-minded.

Shameless plugs, in my humble opinion, are just enthusastic responses from someone who was kind enough to take interest in my rush thread.

XOXO,
Annie.

gphiangel624 10-05-2002 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shark In Skirt
If rushees are really taking to heart what is being said on a public internet forum so much as to have their decisions swayed, then perhaps those are the rushees are a bit weak-minded.




I couldn't have said it better!

gphiangel624 10-05-2002 11:22 PM

Oops, forgot to disclude my signature!

Carol

PenguinTrax 10-06-2002 08:29 AM

Wow, my little posting sure stirred up a bunch of discussion!

I'm glad everyone seems to be taking my post in the manner in which it was meant - think before you post. Don't worry about taking letters out of your sigs or anything else, that's just going too far in my opinion. Just weigh carefully what and HOW you say things, before hitting the submit button.

And if all else fails...there's always the edit feature. :D

justamom 10-06-2002 09:29 AM

I guess the bottom line is-If you are going to err, err on the side of caution!:)


Good discussion!

Shark In Skirt 10-06-2002 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RubberSoul
And as for the signatures that many of us have, that shouldn't be a problem. It's simply a matter of choosing your words carefully.......
Just curious.... how would one dictate what is appropiate in a signature and what isn't?

It's really wonderful that GCers are so concerned over PNMs... but isn't Greek Chat primarily for Greeks, first and foremost?

As a PNM, I appreciate, without a doubt, all of the help and advice that's been given to me on this forum, and yet, I'm also amazed that those of you in a GLO are willing to censor yourselves in a forum that was basically created for those in Greek Letter Organizations... I hope you won't change yourselves to be too "PC" in order to cater to the PNMs on this board, which I think, are far less in numbers than actual Greek members. I love you folks just the way you are. :D

XOXO,

kdonline 10-06-2002 01:46 PM

Another concern is... would the university PHC's see these posts as rush infractions?

Could we, perhaps, be putting our own GLOs at risk, because of posting in PNM's threads?

As for the incident of personally knowing PNMs and/or seeking them out - I don't see how that is a rush infraction. You meet people all the time, and yes, they'll know of your GLO, but just because you met, doesn't mean you are inviting them to your house.

Personally, I have kept an eye on all the UF threads, because that's my alma mater. I think maybe once I saw someone who has posted that they saw a GC PNM during rush - this, I don't think, was too smart.

I think if there is a GC PNM rushing at your school, you should not post in their thread until after rush. Because, imagine what would happen, should a PHC rep from your school see that message?! It would just be messy - so why take the risk?

But seriously, I am curious to find out if any of these posts could be seen as rush infractions, from either end.

valkyrie 10-06-2002 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GammaPhiBabe
I agree with this. I don't see how my saying "Go Gamma Phi!" (when it's a PNM I have never even met!) helps things. These posts just clog up the board and make the rush threads go on and on for pages. I read rush threads to hear about the PNM's experience and what rush is like at different schools, not to read 5 pages of GC members' comments about their own sororities. Besides, my letters are in my signature and my screen name. It's pretty obvious what sorority I'll be rooting for! :)

I think that it could really make a PNM feel bad if she has just been cut by her favorite house, XYZ, and she really doesn't fit in at ABC. Then when she comes back here to post, there are umpteen people posting "I hope you loved XYZ!!" and "GO ABC!!"

Why don't we limit our posts in the rush threads to constructive/helful advice or encouragement to the PNM who is being so kind as to give us a window to her experience.

Just my .02...
:)

Very well said, and I agree completely! I can remember at least one PNM commenting that the "shameless plugs" made her feel uncomfortable. Aside from that, I'm sorry and I don't mean to sound rude, but they are really boring to read. We are all proud of our organizations, and that pride is reflected in many of our signatures. Rather than cheering for my organization in particular, I just hope that every PNM here finds the best home for her, and of course I have *no way* of knowing where that would be!

thetakates 10-06-2002 10:59 PM

I want to agree with the first part of the Thread....Shameless Plugs can be really really nerveracking for the PNM. I never went through formal recruitment, but I knwo that the process is very very nerve-racking! I also know that every organization at every school is very very different. I know other chapters of my sorority that are very different from the one that I am in and if I would have gone to that school I would have never fit into that chapter at all. It is different for everyone and everyone needs to be respectful of that! My 2cents anyways :)

sbhill2 10-06-2002 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RubberSoul
I agree that maybe we should back off with the "shameless plug" thing. I feel that we should take our cues from the PNM. If they happen to go to ABC, and you are an ABC and they say how much they liked it there and really hope to get into that house, there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "Oh I'm so glad you liked ABC, that rocks...." or something to that effect. And as for the signatures that many of us have, that shouldn't be a problem. It's simply a matter of choosing your words carefully.......

I agree with RubberSoul and a lot of other posts around here. I don't think what we're doing with the 'shameless plugs' is such a great idea in all. We need to try to let these girls do it on their own. Signatures don't need to be taken out most definately - its just a way of showing pride in our organization and I think when a PNM see's that on here they read it as pride too. So in that respect its a good thing. Not to say that those of us who have put in 'shameless plugs' are bad representatives of our organization b/c I am just as guilty of shameless plugs as most of y'all. I think we just need to take an extra step from now on in the rush stories by PNMs to support them without the plugs. So let's all try to do this so that PNMs can have a good rush experience and good experience with GC.



I hope that message made sense. I was having trouble finding the right way to say thigns so that y'all could understand my point of view. If it doesn't make sense, PM me and I can try to fix it.

AchtungBaby80 10-07-2002 09:49 AM

Right, if I were a PNM, all these "Go ------!" and "------ is the best!" things that people say would not affect me whatsoever. Nor would they make me feel uncomfortable. But that's just me. I think we're being a little overly sensitive here, though...if a PNM can't handle it, then she shouldn't be on here posting her story. You know, the comments PNMs make in their rush thread might offend some members. The road goes both ways. Toes are going to get stepped on sometimes, but personally, I'll be darned if I'll get upset over something I read on the internet. :rolleyes:

And if it's a rush infraction to be communicating with PNMs during rush, then why don't we just delete all the rush threads and solve the problem that way?

PenguinTrax 10-07-2002 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AchtungBaby80
And if it's a rush infraction to be communicating with PNMs during rush, then why don't we just delete all the rush threads and solve the problem that way?
It's only an infraction if the intiated member 'talking' to the PNM is in a chapter on the campus where the PNM is experiencing recruitment OR an alumna on that campus assisting with recruitment for her chapter.

Let's not go overboard here.

shadokat 10-07-2002 10:23 AM

I don't necessarily think that the shameless plugs make the PNM feel uncomfortable, but imagine that you're a member of your sorority at XYZ school, and one of the PNMs on here is going through recruitment. You, wanting to be positive and promote your sorority say "Go ABC!!!". Now, when the PNM visits the house, she likes it, and maybe wants to go back. But for whatever reason, your chapter there cuts her. Now, you're saying oh, I'm so sorry they didn't invite you back, I'm sure you're a great girl, maybe there was an NPC error, etc. But the reality of the situation is that maybe your chapter didn't think she fit!! And you're undermining them by saying "Go ABC!!".

Just a thought...

GPhiBLtColonel 10-07-2002 12:13 PM

I am weary.....
 
of this schtick.....to wit:

Quote:

As a PNM who is about to rush next week, I can honestly say that "shameless plugs" have no effect on me whatsoever... and I have a hard time imagining that these affect anybody with half of a braincell. If rushees are really taking to heart what is being said on a public internet forum so much as to have their decisions swayed, then perhaps those are the rushees are a bit weak-minded.

Shameless plugs, in my humble opinion, are just enthusastic responses from someone who was kind enough to take interest in my rush thread.
and another post:

Quote:

It's really wonderful that GCers are so concerned over PNMs... but isn't Greek Chat primarily for Greeks, first and foremost?

As a PNM, I appreciate, without a doubt, all of the help and advice that's been given to me on this forum, and yet, I'm also amazed that those of you in a GLO are willing to censor yourselves in a forum that was basically created for those in Greek Letter Organizations... I hope you won't change yourselves to be too "PC" in order to cater to the PNMs on this board, which I think, are far less in numbers than actual Greek members. I love you folks just the way you are
Out of the mouths of PNMs truly come nuggets of wisdom!

I couldn't have said it any better than Annie has done in her two posts above: if you think shameless plugs are truly harmful, then don't do 'em. But if you agree with what Shark-in-skirt has said and that shameless plugs don't matter and if you wanna keep doing 'em, So What?

AchtungBaby80 10-07-2002 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PnguinTrax
Let's not go overboard here.
Dammit, I was trying to make a point of how silly it is to get our knickers in a twist over something like this! :p

GPhiBLtColonel 10-07-2002 01:16 PM

Ditto
 
Ditto -- Achtung Baby -- I totally agree with you!!!!!!

shadokat 10-07-2002 02:05 PM

Nobody is getting their knickers in a twist. They are concerned with issues that ACTUAL CHAPTER MEMBERS will have to deal with from someone on here saying "Go XYZ!". If one of our chapters doesn't want a PNM that's going through recruitment, and they post here, by one of us saying "Go XYZ", we are not communicating the message our sisters of that chapter are trying to say. I'm not worried about PNMs...they're adults who can make their own choices. But as a member of a sorority, what you speak is representative of your group. And if you make it sound as if you want this girl to go to your sorority, but the chapter she's actually rushing at doesn't, you're giving her false hope and conflicting messages. The whole point is think before you speak.

Bama_Alumna 10-07-2002 02:58 PM

Quote:

I don't see how my saying "Go Gamma Phi!" (when it's a PNM I have never even met!) helps things. These posts just clog up the board and make the rush threads go on and on for pages. I read rush threads to hear about the PNM's experience and what rush is like at different schools, not to read 5 pages of GC members' comments about their own sororities.
I totally agree with this! This is why I don't like to read rush threads any more. I'm not picking on you, GPhiBLtColonel, but every time there is a rush thread, you (and others) post numerous plugs for your sorority. I think it is GREAT that you ladies love your sisters so much, but it gets tiring to read it over and over when I'm really just trying to get to the "good stuff," that is the rush story itself.

I don't really worry about making the PNM feel badly about her choices or her cuts. And I certainly don't feel bad when a PNM drops the local chapter of my sorority. I just figure that she wasn't comfortable there. I prefer when PNMs use chapter names because I think it is great unbiased information for the chapter to use to improve itself.

I also agree with whomever said that we should be thankful that the PNMs are willing to share their experiences with us!

Lady Pi Phi 10-07-2002 03:43 PM

Okay, I would like to make a suggestion. Maybe what we should do when a PNM decides to post a rush thread is keep our questions and comments till the end Perhaps we should wait till the PNM posts where the got a bid, whether they accpeted or not, or in some cases bad news. We should wait until their story is over to post congratulations or condolences. If the PNM has an iimmediate question and would like one of us to answer then she will let us know. I think that way we don't have to worry about posting things that could be potentially offensive or influential, or whatever to a PNM. As well, this way people who don't like to sift through post that only say good luck they don't have to read them. This is just a suggestion, I'm sure some won't like it...that's fine, I'm not saying it has to be law, so please don't yell at me

Emily

violets 10-07-2002 04:57 PM

This is a very interesting thread. Thank you Barbara, for making this suggestion.

I think justamom said it best when she suggested we should err on the side of caution. I also think we should err on the side of kindness, support and Panhellenic values when discussing recruitment with women or men who are interested in becoming members of any GLO.

I have to admit that I somewhat enjoyed the "plugs" members gave their organizations within pnms rush threads; if only because I'm terrible at this vb code nonsense and I admire their ability to use different colors, fonts and sizes at the same time!:D

However, the absence of these plugs will be no real loss in my reading a rush thread. It was only my nostalgia for my college days that made me smile at the obvious enthusiasm of members giving a "shameless plug" for their organization. I have done one or two myself, I admit.

I think we should remember a few things in this discussion.
One, that Greek Chat provides ample opportunity to express pride in and enthusiasm for, our respective fraternal organizations. There are boards provided for each of our organizations as well as General Boards covering a wide variety of topics. In fact, the Greek Life board often has an open topic asking GC members to discuss what they like or love about their sister or brotherhoods. I for one, enjoy reading about the great experiences of sisterhood/brotherhood from all the other GLO members.

None of us have the ability to truly understand the psyche or experience of any pnm going through recruitment and posting on GC. She may be posting just as a way to blow off steam, or she may be truly struggling with the process and looking for guidance. Its really not for us to say, both scenarios are just presumptions. However, back to justamom's sage advice, err on the side of caution and kindness. If my "shameless plug" made even one pnm uncomfortable in any way, then I am resolved to never do it again, ever. I don't see why I would.

In fact along the same lines, I support anonymity in threads on both sides. I am fine with pnms using just numbers to indicate the houses on their campus. (Of course, in all honesty, I wish they would use colors, or state capitals, or anything else because their is nothing I am worse at than keeping numbers straight in my head :( .) I find the anonymous threads help to drive home the importance of basic recruitment skills as well as the overall principals that are essential to NPC recruitment. These "anonymous" threads provide an opportunity for all GLO members to identify with the process of recruitment and of a pnm finding a home. Anonymous threads put the principals ahead of the players. I've noticed as well that these threads can often be a bit more "honest," the pnm feels free to say, for example, "House Number One" talked all about their parties with Mu Mu fraternity, it made me uncomfortable." Ah, yes, I can recognize that dilemma and possibly post some advice about that situation.
Having said all of that, that is simply my preference and at the end of the day I believe the pnm posting on Greek Chat has the right to post in any manner she wants. I do not feel that she is here to entertain me. Rather, I think the women who provides us with glimpses of her recruitment is already very generous, I would be loath to demand that she post in the way that I like best. Who am I to demand anything?


But let me get back to what was, I think, Barbara's original point. These Rush threads are wonderful opportunities to support women who have an interest in joining a sorority. It gives those of us who already know the enriching experience of having sisters, a forum for supporting other women on the same path. I have at times, really been taken by certain pnms on this board, and what a wonderful opportunity this board provides to give those lovely pnms support, albeit of the "cyber" variety.


Finally, I think the most significant way to "plug" any of our organizations is with what we say and how we act/react to issues. Take a look at Erica812's journey to begin a chapter of Beta Sigma Phi. She has gotten several emails from GC readers expressing interest in starting their own chapters. I would suggest that this is due to Erica's endless enthusiasm, humor and passion for sisterhood. Those qualities have attracted other women to Beta Sigma Phi. This is a wonderful example of actions and attitudes being the best "plugs" of all.

Greek love,
violets

AnchorAlum 10-10-2002 08:17 AM

Re:Shameless Plugs
 
I think that since this issue did not even exist 5 years ago, we all need to give ourselves time to develop a protocol during recruitment and this thread is a perfect opportunity. Talk about a learning curve!

I see nothing wrong with adding in your group's motto, a creative signature, etc. but sometimes the PNM's have no experience with sororities, and so anyone who says "I hope you go such and such" may be creating a false expectation for a young woman who could get her heart broken and turn on the Greek system.

My board name gives away my affiliation and that's plenty for me. I love all the input of different groups and different locations. This has been such a fun discovery and I am absolutely pleased at the wonderful and supportive things all of you have had to say during the fall recruitment process. Especially the collegians. You all are such a credit to your groups and to Panhellenic!


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