Is it wrong to....
 

OK, so, we're not going to become TKE (read my earlier post), but TKE still wants to come to this campus. Is there anything wrong with blocking it? We simply can't support another chapter right now- new member classes have been smaller and smaller the past few years, and we've gotten three colonies in the last three semesters- none of them having brilliant success. And all the Greek housing is already occupied, with waiting lists. I just can't see that another chapter would be a good thing right now.

So would it be terribly wrong to block the new colony? I feel bad, but I can't see it working well.

If TKE wants to come to campus and IFC doesn't want to reconize them there is a good chance they will just start a chapter unrecognized.

Will they really start an unrecognized chapter? I'm wondering because a number of years ago we had TKE on my campus and something happened (that was before my time so I'm not sure what) and the guys ran underground for a number of years and were eventually sued by TKE . . . The circle has come around and there is now a TKE colony on my campus again. The administration apparently told them that this is their final chance and if they screw it up they won't ever get university recognition . . . about a week ago their party *almost * got busted so things are looking grim with both the administration and IFC right about now. Everyone runs parties, but the question would be what they were doing that got them caught. Anyhow, if for some reason they didn't get recognition do you think that TKE national would chose just to open an unrecognized chapter here?

Just edited to say that they *almost* got busted (something about being warned). Sorry for the misinformation everybody! It is very important for any group to be really careful about this but most especially a colony!

I would not feel bad about blocking it. It kind of sounds like the school wants you guys to go local but instead of being straight up about it, they are letting nationals come in and hoping you either die out or merge with them. Boo!

SuperSister, I pmed you with "the rest of the story".

Yes TKE IHQ will open reconized chapters if they feel the school is being unfair. There have been times where the school stopped reconzing a chapter because of an inccident if TKE IHQ feels that the punishment is too harsh they will keep it open. Also if the IFC in ineffective or is hurting a chapter they can leave IFC with TKE IHQ's permission. Thats why I love TKE IHQ because they are supportive. Some say most National fraternities do the same thing and if thats true its a good thing. And I really doubt TKE is trying to kill locals.

Block it!
 

If you think the extra chapter would hurt the rest of the org that are already struggling on campus, I would voice that opinion. No use in getting yourself hurt, right?
-M

TKE runs underground at my school, too, although apparently their nationals doesn't mind -- they've been doing it for awhile.

I'm surprised your greek advisor would support the idea if it's going to hurt the rest of the greeks on campus -- what's the deal with that?

I really doubt it would hurt the national greeks. I think he is concerned it will hurt the local greeks. But like I said if IHQ really wants to go there it won't matter if they are blocked from recognition on campus. All I can suggest it make sure your guys are loyal to your fraternity and you should be ok. If you have a strong brotherhood you should still get guys no matter what no matter how many national fraternties come on campus.

Personally I've never seen that one GLO would crowd another out. If anything it brings more awareness to the campus that fraternities are a great thing. The more people involved in Greek Life the better. If TKE wants to come to your campus you'd do better supporting them than being against them. Work together to increase the number of men going through Rush and everyone wins. The more houses the better in this case.

actually, our local groups are doing fine, it's the national groups that really need to worry. Half their appeal is that they've a national- the more nationals there are, the less that matters.

Our GA isn't allowed to have an opinion- the school's policy is that all Greek orgs have to recognized, if they're following rules. That doesn't mean the IFC would have to recognize them, however- we have three GLO's now that are recognized by the university but NOT by any council. I'm just hoping that by blocking them in the council they'll have the decency to back away from the school completely.

It has nothing to do with decency. Blocking them would only make them more determined, If the nationals are hurting and locals are no why worry then? The only way they won't come to campus is if there is not enough alumni support. But it sounds like they must have plenty.

I wouldn't want to deny anyone the chance to be part of an organization like that, but sadly, the greek system is about supply and demand... if there is no demand (or the demand isn't great enough) why would you supply your school with every single NPC or IFC organization that wanted to colonize there just because they followed the rules?

In some cases it would be a wasted effort to colonize, establish a chapter, and then have the chapter fold a few years down the line because there simply isn't even interest out there for the greek life in general.

I would think that the TKE headquarters would know that?

I don't know.. just my opinion.

I TOTALLY agree w/ texas princess!

I think if there are not enough people for a chapter, blocking it would actually be a favor to TKE - why would they want to waste time, effort and re$ource$ on a chapter that's going to flounder?

If it is a case of the nationals are hurting and locals are not, then I find OnePlus's effort very admirable, since he's thinking about the rest of the Greek system, not just his own chapter.

On our campus the Greek system has been growing pretty fast -- 2 new chapters over the past 3 years added to IFC (us and PIKE). It's been a positive thing though. Before there were only 4 fraternities... Now there are 6. More men go through Rush, more men end up signing. No one's had to close their doors and everyone is growing.

Your assuming that TKE wouldn't thrive if they joined. That would only be the case if they are weak rushers. Granted some fraternities might have a few fewer guys but most TKE colonies thrive with a few exceptions.

But like a said nothing I or anybody says or does will affect anything. If TKE wants to go there they will, support or not. But they might not be that interested. Who knows we will have to see what happens.

It has nothing to do with being strong or weak rushers- the demand simply isn't there. The newer groups are diluting the pool for everyone else- I have the numbers, and numbers don't lie. We've had three new chapters, and lost three old chapters, in three semesters. Honestly, I think 15 men's groups is WAY too many for this school- 7 or 8 is the reasonable max. We have 8 NPC groups, and they're all of an appropriate size.

Our men's groups are too small and too many, pure and simple. The number of Greek men has been constant for the last ten years- about 550-600. There's no reason to expect it to increase, and actually a number of reasons to expect it to decrease. I've heard that 'more chapters means more men' speech at three different expansion presentations. The actual result each time has been less men for everyone.

And the fact that TKE would come here anyway....once again, I wish the NIC was more like the NPC.

Well at least they contacted some locals first so the numbers of fraternties wouldn't have change if one was interested.

I doubt NIC will ever be like NPC because guys pride themselves not being as strict as the girls.

I have to agree with zntke.

I'm thankful every time I look at a rush thread that we don't have to do it like that (sorry ladies).

And realistically that 550-600 number could easily grow if that's what fraternities in general tried to do. If more of us would focus on just promoting Greek life and THEN ourselves maybe more quality men would consider joining SOMETHING.

Oneplus, out of curiosity, which school are you attending (if you don't mind me asking)?

I wonder what would cause TKE to WANT to bring a chapter to the school at all odds? I am sure there are other expansion opporunities :confused:

I also have to give "props" to Oneplus for worrying about the entire greek system on his campus.

The first university I attended once had scores of NPC and IFC organizations on campus, even though the interest wasn't there. From what I understand, the organizations couldn't keep up.. there were just too few PNM's to go around for the many fraternities/ sororities, and that really killed the greek system for awhile. Only 2 IFC fraternities remained with another local fraternity and two local sororities. Now they are in the process of making the greek system there flourish because the desire to make it better, but the bottom line is if you have all NPC sororities and IFC fraternities there, it won't do much good unless the overall greek interest increases a lot

Voice your opinion
 

Listen, just voice your opinion. If you don't want them there, then don't accept them into your IFC and if others agree with you, they won't be accepted. It's not about nice, but about being heard and being democratic.

In terms of a bunch of national houses appearing on your campus when greek life isn't expanding, that sucks. Unless they fill a niche, I don't see why a new house should come to a campus because they won't attract new people on top of what's been in the rush pool. For example, if the school doesn't have a black fraternity and there is a group of guys who want greek life but feel they can get much more from a black house, then I think that's filling a niche.

Ask FuzzieAlum and Opie about their thoughts on this if you want too. I think they might know more because they have done work at other chapter.

-Rudey

One must understand the economics of the Situation! In Your words!

My school has 8 % Greek Men on campus! So does that suck! Yes!

I have many Freinds of TKE and they are doing the same thing that LXA is doing!

We are going back on Campuses that had Chapters that were closed and also looking to open New Ones!

Not every young New College Kid finds what they are looking for! I for one did not!

I wanted to start something new and I did and we are still there since 1965!

The stronger a Campus with Greeks the Better we will all be to do more why, We Do More on and for the campus!

Yes We Battle each other, but We all want the best for Greeks!:D

In Out get with it! We are a minority, but I am in Hopes we will grow!:)

Ask me, huh?

Well, I've seen new chapters come to campus and have an adverse affect on other ones. It all depends on what the new group has to offer vs. the extant ones. If a new chapter can make itself "the" Jewish, ag, engineering, nerd, jock, WASP, whatever house where there wasn't one before, everyone benefits, because new people come to Greek life. If they just offer what other groups already do - and that's more likely the more chapters you have on campus - they will just suck away members from the others. Either someone will close or everyone will end up smaller. And that's a bad thing, unless of course the fraternities have been complaining about growing too fast or getting too big - which doesn't sound like the case here.

Not to knock nationals, because I'm a member of one, but they frequently do disregard the opinions/legitimacy of locals. Even if locals are a strong, respectable part of the college they are at, to many nationals they are just hazing nightmares waiting to happen, or members to be pilfered for their own org. I'm perhaps overstating it and some fraternities are more so than others, but the fact is, they might not care what OnePlus thinks. Heck, they might not care what other nationals think, because they know they'll do the same to them in turn.

We criticize fraternities for allowing unrestrained capitalistic growth, and sororities for their socialistic, restricted growth, but the best plan lies somewhere in the middle, in a Zen-like state none of us can get to.

But I think if:
- your org AND other orgs are suffering from a numbers shortage
- you sincerely think it's not due to poor practices on your part (like you're not beating your pledges)
-you don't see that this org offers something substantially different from what is there already
THEN you definitely have the right to protect your organization. You were there first, and, after all, your organization means the most to you.

ARe you staying local??

Block It!!
 

I think SuperSister and I go to the same school. Either that or it's a very strange coincidence that the same stuff happened at my College. I can tell you that TKE was forced on us here at clarion. We just recently lost a chapter of Sigma Tau Gamma, and the rest of us are having a hard time finding associates. The administration pressured the IFC advisor to pressure us, Those of us on IFC, to give them recognition. If the school starts pushing you to recognize them it will create alot of friction. Although I am biased from personal experiences.

All they are trying to do is restart a closed chapter. If you chapter has been close for several years would you try to restart it?

I would if the base was there. But if you want to talk fair it isn't fair to chapters who weren't booted for illegal acts to close b/c they can't get guys. If my chapter closed b/c we didn't have the numbers I would be quite mad. But, if we were closed for illegal acts I would understand. If you want to know what happened why don't you write Clarion our IFC and the police and ask what happened? Why should we let another colony in if the rest of us are struggling to get guys? That's just thinning out our numbers.

The guys that are in the colony were not booted for those acts so they deserve a chance. Obviously when TKE was on campus before you had more fraternity than you had before what did you do then?

Re: Block It!!
 

Either my computer screen is doing weird things, or someone put something in my Pepsi, but I could swear you just said that the administration at Clarion wanted to add a fraternity. Unless they have all been possessed by pod people, I can't imagine.

BTW, don't burn the pig this year, dudes. :D

Anyhoo - zntke - when TKE was on before I think we had the same amount of fraternities we have now (albeit different ones). But the interest in Greek life was much larger than it is now. Plus, this is the second time TKE has tried to recolonize. The first attempt to weed out some of the members who were causing trouble pretty much didn't work, so that's why a lot of people are wary.

Oh well at least IHQ is trying. If t doesn't workout maybe in another 5 years. If it does work out good for them. TKE IHQ has been pretty sucessful restarting closed ones lately.

33girl: our current IFC advisor was pressured by his superiors to push for us to let TKE in. Since his superiors pushed him that can only mean the adminstration wanted them here. Don't worry about the pig, we're keeping bob away from it. We're actually letting people who know what they're doing cook it this year.

zntke711: We are doing the exact same thing we've done for the past 10 years. People just aren't as interested in Greek Life as they used to be I guess. Why should I put my chapter on the line to let some group have a second chance? If you knew there was the possibility that your chapter could get closed b/c you couldn't get people since an organization only has you sign a paper to get in instead of a structured bid system would you risk your chapter?

Oh well sounds like its too late anyways. Least they applied for IFC first. If the adminstraton pushed IFC to do it, its not TKE's fault.

PSK480 -- If TKE has made up its mind to come don't you think that IFC would be better having them operate within IFC's guidlines rather than being able to steal your pledges, dirty rush, etc? If you get everyone working from the same page and all fraternitys operate to promote rush IN GENERAL not only will your chapter grow, the entire system will.

This has happened at our campus lately. We came on in 1999 got our charter in March of this year. Pike got their charter 1 month after we did (they started their colony last year I think)... All fraternitys on this campus keep turning in record numbers for rush.... It's because we promote the system and not JUST our houses. When guys come through rush and say they haven't decided we don't talk trash about other houses and just hope that they pick one of us instead of none!