Greedy sorority
 

Alright, i'm not trying to hate, but there is a particular sorority on my campus that has a pledge class that is way too big. They have 25 pledges. How can you possibly get to know all of those girls and make the pledging process more personal with that many girls? Seriously, we have 6 pledges, another sorority has 10. But 25 is just ridiculous. But, this is only my opinion.

I've heard of school with average pledge classes of over 70! At my school a fall pledge class of 25 would be small, as quota is usually around 42. I guess it's how you look at the matter.

Ha ha. You must go to my school. Yeah, when one sorority has 6 pledges and another has 10, 25 can seem like a lot! However compared to schools with stronger greek systems, 25 isn't a lot. Do they do dirty rushing?

I don't think that they are dirty rushing. At least I hope not, but I would not put it past those girls b/c they are really snobby towards other sororities on campus and towards themselves!! But, I agree with Hootie, maybe they are doing something right that my sorority could learn from. But, regardless of that, our school is not a big school, it has about 5,000 or less students, and to have that many girls in a pledge class is in my opinion ridiculous!!!!

My pledge class has 25 members- but I think most of the other sororities have about the same amount and at least for me no dirty rushing was allowed!

I go to a small school... and I have 21 in my pledge class, and I'm pretty certain all the other sororities have around that number.

Well, if you're sure that no dirty rushing is involved, then they are doing something right. Find out what it is! Once you find out, you guys can try to compete OR offer them the opposite of what they offer.

Yeah, we need to do something!! I don't want that many in a pledge class, b/c it makes it harder to really get to know everyone. But, it would be cool to get up to 15 pledges in the next semester class.

I think it all depends on the level of commitment of the sisters, if the pledges outnumber the number of members, it might be a problem because someone has to double up on the sister-daughters (or little sisters). However, you can have 5 pledges and it will be too many if the sisters aren't involved in their activities/life. JMO...

What was quota this year?

Quota at my school was 36 and that is the number that we have. My pledge class last fall was also thirty six. You would be surprised at how close all of us are. We are always together. Seriously, almost all of us. Large pledge classes have just as strong of a bond as a small one. And it has nothing to do with dirty rushing.

I don't think that 25 is a ridiculous size as far as getting to know each other... 25 is actually a pretty small pledge class, here, but if they are getting 25 while others are getting 10 and 5, then it does make me wonder. What is quota? If quota's 10 and they're taking 25, then that's not really fair, and I'm wondering about your greek system, but if quota's 25, then why are they able to make quota while the other two aren't? Dirty rushing actually happens a lot here... sororities just pay the fines... but I don't know that dirty rushing is what happens there to make them get 25 versus 10 and 5.

My school only has about 2000-2500 people, and pledge classes of 25 are not unheard-of. Actually, I think quota the year I joined was 30. It really does depend on the system. I have to agree with you, though, once the size of a new member class hits a certain point, there is no way that you can be very close to a majority of them. I can't even imagine trying to get to know 70 members of my class plus the 100+ upperclass sisters! :eek:

You guys, this just happens. Quota was 36 here. We only bid matched 26 and then we COBed the rest. 4 chapters bid matched quota, one chapter only bid matched 6 and one only bid matched 16. Yes, dirty rushing does happen but it is not fair to say that just because some chapters are full and others are not that there is something shady going on. A lot of people don't just join any sorority that they can get into. They know what they want and that is the only place that they will go. I think it is just how the chips fall sometimes. Seriously, we didn't bid match quota and we are a strong chapter. We also didn't just take anyone so that we would be at quota and that may be the case in chapters with small pledge classes. Maybe they are very selective with their girls. I don't think that is a bad thing. I personally would rather have 6 girls that I absolutely can't live with out than have 60 that I have my doubts about.

Are you saying this sorority took more pledges than they were entitled to? I don't quite get your gripe.

If they have a significantly bigger pledge class than everyone else, it could be because they started with less sisters and are trying to get up to total.

At any rate - if you like being in a smaller pledge class, why on earth do you care? Let them do their thing, and you do yours. You won't look any better by saying this other sorority can't be close and is being greedy - it just makes you look jealous.

My alma mater is pretty small, and my chapter has 46 girls currently in their pledge class. They were the only sorority on campus to make quota this year too, but that doesn't mean that they did anything wrong or that their members are snobby. It simply means that a lot of girls were impressed by them during Rush and wanted to go DZ.

The sorority you're referring to may have simply had a really phenomenal rush this year. A large pledge class means that the Greek system is doing well at your campus, and that's definitely something to be proud of -- not something to be upset about. ;)

***25 isn't a ridiculously large size for a pledge class on any campus -- the girls that I help advise at UGA have upwards of 55 new members in their pledge classes and I know of other DZ chapters who have classes with 70 or more.***

That is what I am getting at, 25 wouldn't even be quota here at my school.

At my school there are roughly 2,500 undergraduates, about 20% of which are Greek. There are 4 sororities (all NPC) and the average pledge class size for sororities during formal recruitment is 12; 25 would be huge, almost unheard of, for any sorority at my campus, even during informal recruitment.

Things vary from school to school, so a pledge class of 25 for that specific chapter could be typical of them. Don't let it bother you. You prefer a smaller group and that's what you have.

If the group wants to be that big ... and girls want to be in it ... and it's within Panhellenic rules ... there's no "legal" grounds for complaint. It's not up to one chapter to tell another not to be big anymore than it would be my business to tell another sorority they have ugly colors or they need to remodel their house.

I can say I kinda understand where you're coming from. My soror only got 7 woman during formal recruitment this semester. Quota was 18.. (which is HUGE for my school) and the two chapters that took quota don't even have enough girls to have one on one big/lils.... so I can see what your saying about not getting to know/handle the amount of new members... I think the chapters at my school that took quota are going to have a hard time doing that... however they did nothing wrong in taking quota since that's what they are entitled to. and I don't think they necessarily did anything more "right" than you because I know my chapter did everything "right" during rush. We planned our parties very well, we greeted woman warmly and treated them with respect and showed them our best side. Unfortunately if your chapter was already smaller than the rest... a lot of women look at that when they are going through. If your chapter feels you put your hearts into rush, hold your heads high and be proud that you will get to know your pledge class and your sisterhood is going to grow stronger !!!! :D

Sounds to me like somebody just had a very good rush.

Back in 1997 quota was 8 and ceiling was 35. We had 16 active members at that time. Everybody that was on our "A" list accepted a bid from us putting us at 24. We also had 8 girls on our "B" list...all of them, except for one, accepted a bid from us at the end of rush which put us at 31 members.

A year later in 1998 we almost had a similar situation. Of the 8 girls that we extended bids to during Formal Recuitment 7 of them suicided us.

Let's just say that the other sororities were not very happy with us and thought that we had been "dirty rushing." We did nothing wrong! All we did was work our butts off to have a kick ass Rush...and it worked!!

My undergrad campus only had 2400 students.
The year I pledged quota was 36.
5 of our 6 sororities made quota that year, and the house totals for most were over 110.
I was proud to be part of such a strong greek system, and I thought having the chance to get to live and become friends with am amazingly diverse group of ladies was a real priviledge.
I guess the message is -- don't you think that you are being just a little judgemental?
Don't knock it 'til you try it.
And isn't it funny that you call them snobby, but you are the one who is ticked about "large" pledge classes, which seems to say that you would prefer your sisterhood to remain more EXCLUSIVE than INCLUSIVE? Just a thought.

Of course it is not allowed, that is why it is "dirty rushing." :)

It also may depend on how many sororities are on your campus. My school only had 4 sororities, and an average pledge class 20-25, at least.

I dont think 25 is alot of girls....When I went through we had 26 in our pledge class and this years class is going to be even bigger than that when we get done with COB. It is not hard at all to get to know that many girls. You would really be suprised. What is your quota at your school? What is the average size sorority? Here at Ball State Quota is 80 girls and our soroity has 70 that is including the girls we just took. I think we took 25 pledges so far and hopefully we will get 10 more to make our quota!

Dirty rushing is doing anything that is intended to get girls to join but is against Panhel rules. It ranges from the unlikely (buying that frosh a new car) to the commonplace ("I can promise you'll get a bid," "Depledge XYZ and we'll give you a bid," "Oh, you're also considering XYZ? Well, they're all sluts").

33girl i agree completely.

25 is not a large pledge class. my school had 3000 people and all 7 sororities were over 100 people!!! some had close to 150. pledge classes were typically 30-40.

i still don't really understand why this is a problem if you like a small class. let them have their large numbers if they want. being smaller doesn't guarantee closeness. and being large doesn't mean you don't know everyone--you just know them in different ways.

25 is definately not a big pledge class. At Michigan (which has 37,000 undergrads), pledge classes can range from 10-55 girls. It just depends on the house and how successful of a rush they had. My pledge/new member class was 33. I think the average is about 25 and thats with 15 houses (17 when I was there almost 2 years ago). Quota this year is 40.

I go to a school of about 5,000 students, where Greek life is only 7-8%, and we have only 3 NPC sororities. Our average quota is usually between 12 and 16 and ceiling is 50. Last fall, during informal recruitment, we had 29 new members and we were at total. Because of the large pledge class (and yes, that is considered to be large at my school), sisters had to take two or three little sisters from the class so that everyone had a big sister.

Every chapter has their ups and downs...what you might see as unfair right now won't when you're in their shoes. Just keep a positive outlook...and if they did dirty rush, don't sink to their level, or the girls that you will attract are ones that will continue dirty rush and everything else that you're complaining about now. Remember, it's the quality of the girls that matters, not the quantity.

It is interesting to see the difference in how "Greek" a school is. For example, I went to a small liberal arts college in the South. There were about 500 undergrads, and 7 NPC groups. Most all freshmen rushed and a majority was placed when I was there. The chapter size of most houses was about 35 or so with pledges classes at 12-15. Talking about small chapters! This meant the school was just under half Greek.
On the other hand, later, I transfered to another school in the south. (mostly commuter) With 4,000 students, they had only 4 NPC groups. Each chapter had about 65 sisters, making being a Greek a huge minority. I just thought those two compairsons were interesting.

Some people hear just are not getting what i'm saying. I personally think that it's very odd for a sorority that usually pulls in 10 to 15 pledges a semester, to all of a sudden be pulling in 25, while the rest of us get 6 to 10 pledges. I would like a bigger pledge class, but 25 pledges all of a sudden for one sorority on our campus is odd. The greek system is not a very big thing b/c most students here are not traditional college students. I don't know what they did, but I hope that it was anything dirty going on b/c i've heard two girls in the past week say that they thought that mtv was gonna be there. Of course, they did not make the pledge class, so they may have been just saying stuff. Also, I find it odd that the greek advisor for our school took forever checking the grades and GPA for our rush, we had to turn girls away that could have had a good GPA. So, they will have to rush again next semester. Well, the other sorority with the 25 pledges had there grades and were already turning girls away during their rush. What's up with that? The greek advisor told us that the system was down all that week of rush, yet they had their grades. It doesn't add up.

re: greedy sorority
 

Pledge,
I am still not getting your point. Can you give a few more details? Are your sororities local ones, or NPC? If you are NPC, I assume your Panhellenic office followed NPC rules for recruitment. What was quota? If you have said it, I missed that. If the sorority that took 25 girls took quota, I don't understand the problem. However, if your Greek office gave them information about grades and such that they did not give the other two groups, you certainly have a reason to ask questions. If that sorority told them things that were not true to get them to join, that would be dirty rushing, which is against NPC recruitment rules. Someone should certainly direct those questions and concerns to your Greek or Panhellenic Advisor.

Anna

MTV is going to be at SUNY-Buffalo. If you're there, that could have something to do with it. And I would blame anything shady on MTV before you blame the sorority.

I don't know what to tell you about the grade issue cause I don't know if this is a first sem freshmen rush or deferred rush. If it's deferred, it could be that these girls already knew where they wanted to go and had their grades ready.

The girls have to give permission to the sorority to allow the greek advisor check grades. So, they can't just give the sisters their grades. The advisor said that the system was down during rush week, so our sorority, which is local, and another sorority, which is national, got our results a week after rush was over. Where else the other sorority with a higher pledge class got their grades the week of rush. Then, to top it off, we had to still turn away girls, especially transfer students and freshmen b/c the advisor claimed that they did not have a GPA. She said that the incoming freshmen and transfer students did not have a GPA in the system yet, but the other sorority have freshmen pledges. What's up with that?:confused:

Thank you for the added info. Are you saying freshmen aren't allowed to pledge? If so, and another group is taking girls that you know for a fact are freshmen, that makes them underground pledges and a definite rush violation.

At any rate, the other sororities can still give open bids if they have not hit quota/total.

Dont some schools pledge once a year while other schools have pledging twice a year?

If so then you should take that into consideration when comparing pledge class size.

Ex. School A has one pledge class per year and the average pledge class is 40. School B has one pledge class per semester and the average pledge class is 20.

Is the sorority with the large new member class a local or a national? If it is a national, then a formal recruitment is required according to NPC regulations because there would be two NPC chapters on your campus. In that case, all grades would have to be released at the same time to the houses participating in formal recruitment. If that is not happening, NPC should be called to oversee recruitment. (I'm not sure how it works with locals because there weren't any locals at my school so I haven't had any experience with them.) And, like 33girl said, if you have deferred recruitment and the sorority in question is taking first-semester freshmen, it is definitely a rush infraction. Have you talked to your Greek Advisor about this problem?

Edited to add: If you had to turn away women during formal recruitment because you were unsure of their grades, you can always go back and COB them once you get their grades.

Ok, our school has two rushes, one in the fall and one in the spring. So, if we had one rush per year, I could easily see how 25 pledges is alright. But, we don't, we have rush twice a year. It takes my sorority two rushes to get the number that they had in one rush. The sororities hear usually get about the same number per pledge class each semester, it's just odd to me how all of a sudden they have this big pledge class and they could not get it the past years. I could understand if they were slowly building up to it, but it just came out of nowhere and I believe it's b/c the greek advisor we have is showing some favortism. They wanted to go ahead and let the girls through, but they couldn't b/c we did not want to get into trouble. But, it just is weird that the advisor said that the new freshmen and transfers did not have GPAs in the system, yet the other sorority have freshmen pledges. And, the other sorority is a very well known national sorority. It sucks, but next rush we will be on point.

Again, maybe I am missing something and maybe you should tell us how your Rush works. I only say this because you said that the houses average 10-15 girls in a new member (pledge) class. So this house getting 10 more girls doesnt seem like it would be unusual. I could see if they got 20 more them normal, but 10 seems minimal. But that's just me.

Some possible reasons for this situation.

Here's one reason. Reputation. Girls, honestly (and sometimes unfortunately) are going to flock to the sorority that they have "heard" the most about, even if all the good stuff they have heard is or isnt true. We all want and tell girls to go in with an open mind, but sometimes I guess its easier said then done.

Also, you have MTV's Sorority Life. No matter what we all may think of the show, we have to admitt that it brought attention to the system and helped to bring out more PNM.Which means higher numbers for some houses, especially if they may come off as Sorority Life-like.

Ok, I am guessing that the girls get to chose which houses they want to go to, instead of going to them all? Correct? And thats why you all seem to be getting grades for girls at different times. If this is the case, is it possible (with ot without favortism) that the "greedy" sorority got their grades before the system went down. It's possible that its just a coincidence and nothing shady happened? Anything can happen.

And with this sudden melt-down isn't it possible that this is the reason that none of your freshmen and transfers have grades b/c something is still wrong with the system?

Finally, as many have said before, isnt it possible that this sorority just had a really awesome rush/recruitment. Like I said 10 more than normal doesnt seem like much to me. Especially when you say average is 10-15. Maybe if average was like 5 yeah. Maybe thye just got really lucky.

My thing is you really shouldnt start thinking of and throwing accusations that something isnt right until you have looked at all the possibilities. And to a point if you know your sorority played by the rules and will be on point for next semesters Rush, why even worry about it? If something shady did happen, what comes around goes around. And if you feel the Greek Advisor is showing favortism, see if the other sorority that didnt get many NM's feels the same way and take it to your Greek Council and/or Pres. of Student Affairs.