Large amount of unexpected cuts
 

D was cut from 9 of her 13 call back houses for round 3. I know cuts are to be expected and that it isn't unusual for some surprise cuts. However, I found it a bit shocking that round 3 cuts would be so hard. Several of these houses she felt a good connection with. She wasn't expecting a full load or even an invite back to all her favorites. But since there was one more round before pref night I was surprised that 9 houses cut her. She is a legacy and really loved that house. I'm not sure if word got out about her legacy status. Is this unusual? What are the thoughts on if that was possibly the reason she may have gotten cut from so many?

In my experience it is better to only let the legacy chapter know of the legacy as other chapters might not be willing to "waste" an invitation on another chapter's legacy, especially if the legacy chapter is a strong, heavily desired chapter.

Don't all the houses know of a legacy if it's on the registration form at said school, when it asks about it? Or if it is on a PNM's resume which was submitted along with Recs? Or are you suggesting that a legacy to ABC use a different resume when they request a rec for a house other than ABC? How else could a PNM encourage other houses to keep inviting her back despite legacy status elsewhere?

I"m aware that all schools and sororities handle things differently, but is there any general advice to share with those not going through as of yet?

It is if the PNM lists it. Nowadays I advise girls not to list their legacy( leave it blank)and only inform the legacy sorority of their status.

Thanks - that seems to make sense. My own may have not thought on that so hard, since she's a legacy to the house and not at that school. The legacy chapter is particularly strong though. Others may have felt not worth taking a risk since she may be drawn in there. Of course there is no guarantee she'll get to pref let alone be high enough. She's happy she got another favorite remaining, although she has another which is 'awkward'. She also went from 13 to 3, after the first round. Now waiting to see what she has next. I'll be glad when this is over.

As a membership adviser, I am seeing more legacies not list their legacy ties on applications but have legacy introduction forms and many recommendations sent to the chapter that indicate that the PNM is a legacy.

That is the wise way to deal with it Ladybug12. With RFM holding chapters to lower numbers of invitations, they must be prudent in the invitations they extend to PNMs.

My niece rushed at a medium-sized university with 5 sororities. Normally, she would've had great returns but she was a legacy to 1 group--that chapter as well--and she was only asked back to 2 groups for the rest of recruitment. And Panhellenic released pictures of the PNMs every day and there she was on the second day, huddled in her chair and waiting for her party.

Yes, she pledged her legacy group but I bet she would've liked another shot at meeting girls from the 3 that cut her immediately.

I know you mean well, but you actually don't know whether your niece would have had better returns if she were not a legacy or if other chapters didn't know of her legacy status.

That said, I also advocate only telling the legacy house of you status and leaving it off the Panhellenic registration.

True but still stings. In the end, it is still an imperfect process. Sped up by technology vs. manual vote tabulating and list-reviewing, but still imperfect.

Mine who was down to 3, is down to 1 with 2 rounds to go. And it's not the legacy or the other house she was really feeling a connection to. She's hurt, upset that she has disappointed her sister who wanted to share that connection with her and won't. She's deciding now how to go forward, will most likely stick with it in the next round but it will come down to being in this GLO or none at all for her college career. One of the downsides too of recruitment before school and OOS; might have fared better without the legacy but it's water under that bridge.

Oh, they knew. She was an in-house legacy and her sister, a year older, was a well-known dance team member on campus plus her cousin (my daughter) was also in the chapter.

Wait, I'm confused. I feel like I read QueenD's comment differently.

Luvmypnm,

I am sorry that your daughter has had a tough recruitment. We hurt as much as our children when they are sad and disappointed. I hope she will see the process out. Her remaining chapter might rise, or even surpass her expectations during prefs. Should she decide not to pledge,as long as she doesn't sign the MRABA( bid card), she would be eligible for any COB opportunities that arise throughout the year. If there are no COB opportunities, she could rush next year. A year getting to know sorority members in clubs and organizations she will join this year might help pave the way for a smoother sophomore recruitment.

ASTAlum, it seems that she thought that the other chapters didn't know she was an in-house legacy to a chapter. Knowing this campus (5 sororities, moderate Greek presence) I--and many other local Greeks who knew her--were positive she would've had a fuller experience had they not known. As a matter of fact, her sister and cousin were the main focus of conversation in every house she walked into.

This girl had all that they wanted in a PNM--top grades and activities, attractiveness, and a very good rep. This campus is not UGa where 95% of the PNMs have it all.

Thanks FSUZeta - you were reading my mind. I spent a fair amount of time with her on the phone last night, with her sister texting her support as well. I was going to ask about the COB because to me, it seems a reasonable option vs. just dropping with 1 remaining house. There are 10 other groups at this school which she had very little opportunity to connect with. I'm confident she's going to continue at least today, then she should discuss the option openly with her recruitment advisor.

One other question I have is about snap bids -- would she be eligible even if she didn't continue through pref? Or are girls who don't match from pref given priority for those? It's not clear to me, other than the handbook which states you mush have gone to at least the first day of recruitment. Any insight there?

Thanks again -- you all are so amazing.

She is eligible for snap bids no matter where in the process she drops out. What would matter is whether she is on a group's radar and what their procedures are for extending one (MS rules for their group so can't say what that might be).

This is the exact opposite of what I meant. I meant that you have no idea whether this young woman's legacy status has impacted her invitations. You aren't sitting in their membership selection sessions. It might make you and your niece feel better to tell yourselves she'd have more houses still on her list if it wasn't know she is a legacy, but ultimately you don't know if this is the case.

I do know what happened with her with at least 2 of the sororities because members angrily shared. They had wanted her but other members insisted with the limited amount of invitations they had, they didn't need to be "wasting" them on in-house legacies. I also know from a member of one group there that her Hispanic sister and her Asian cousin were cut the year before because some members argued that "they're black and they wouldn't fit in this chapter". The Asian cousin was my own Southeast Asian daughter. Several members were so upset that they called us because they wanted her but I told them that the girls would've had a bad time anyway in a chapter where some of the sisters rejected them because of skin color. I did ask the girls to share it with their higher-ups.

There is a myth that no members share membership selection information at all; that we are all close-lipped. On the contrary, I have heard what has gone on in several membership selection sessions of other sororities, usually because one or more members is outraged at what went down.

I never said that members never share membership selection information. I said that you don't know for sure. Women who are sad that their rush crush or future little sister got cut by the chapter share things all day long about why they *think* someone was cut, or what discussion was during sessions. All of it is to be taken with a grain of salt by the people outside the chapter who are hearing it since in pretty much every case there are multiple factors. On the flip side, i feel that disclosing MS discussion details should be taken extremely seriously within the chapter from a standards perspective. It is 100% unacceptable to discuss this outside sessions.

I do know for sure.

WOW! How did you find yourself sitting in MS for multiple NPC sororities at the same time?

If you were not a super moderator, I'd swear you were trolling.

No troll. Years of being a Greek advisor. Seven Greek daughters and about 15 Greek nieces. Good Panhellenic reputation.

You're a KD? I've been told what went on in several KD membership selection sessions in the past few years. And other groups.

Certainly she has not sat in on multiple membership selections at various sororities. It's not allowed. But when you are an active alum, interacting with other Panhellenic alums, perhaps at the same university, I have been told you might share information with your trusted friends. Might. Or might not.

Not to mention that those of us who have known her for years, both on-line and irl, know her to be of impeccable reputation.

OH my. I am actually speechless. You might want to ... oh, nevermind.

FWIW you may (or may not) think or believe that nothing that transpires in chapters is communicated or shared outside the chapters. I know better. And good luck trying to put any sort of stop to that. It's human nature, fundamentally. We all have experiences to share re: severe cuts due to legacy status. Today's PNMs and actives are completely dialed in to information and ferreting out same.

It appears that there are some reading comprehension issues. I never said that membership selection information never leaves chapters, not even once. And I mean no disprespect to carnation, who I've enjoyed reading here for years.

I said that carnation has no way of knowing what truly transpired in membership selection. Period. This is the same thing that I've seen people IN THIS THREAD remind other GC posters for years. We remind PNMs, their moms, and other alumnae of this all the time.

It does a huge disservice, especially to PNMs and their mothers who are sad that they were dropped from chapters, when we act like they could know what transpired. In this circumstance, we have a very hurt PNM and her aunt who are looking to understand what happened - something that can make normally very rational people go a bit more into emotional territory. Having gotten angry and upset phone calls from alumnae who didn't understand cuts or other recruitment results when I served as recruitment adviser for several years, I have more experience with that than I would care to admit.

I hope carnation's niece finds a home. Truly.

There's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. But thanks for being concerned.

Speaking of reading comprehension, carnation's niece did find a home.

Yeah. Uh huh.

Irony meter is off the charts!

AZTheta, I am sorry. I didn't mean to imply you had a reading comprehension problem. I meant that this thread had people from multiple perspectives talking past each other. I will cop to it myself, since I've been more tuned in to the discussion around what people know coming out of membership selection than I was the result of CarnationNiece's recruitment.

OK me too.

No dirty deletes here, owning my own snark. Maybe we all need ... um ... something?

I vote for some chocolate chip cookies. Those are almost never wrong.

And my favorite thing this week is talked to my BFFs daughter A, who pledged KD this week. She is happy and excited, as is her ZTA roommate. Both of them had a different house as their favorite initially, neither were selected for that organization, and they are showing the EXACT type of attitude that we advocate when you don't get your favorite for an invite or a bid. I haven't heard the other house's name out of A's mouth even ONCE since they released her, except when she shared that one of her friends was going to pref there. Since I'm not working as an adviser right now, I have instead focused on help in some girls figure out how to present themselves well during recruitment AND have a healthy attitude about it. Next up I have ladies going through recruitment at Wichita and DePaul. Neither know much about how recruitment works so I've given them as much info as I can. The DePaul girl in particular, who is a freshman, is just loving the idea of any house! The Wichita girl, who is not a freshman, has a few faves where she has friends but knows to consider all options.

"If you were not a super moderator, I'd swear you were trolling."

While I realise that begins with an "if," just the mention of trolling within a million miles of Carnation is laughable. As someone who does know her on-line and IRL, I'll ditto what SWTXBelle said about impeccable reputation, plus her years of experience and involvement with Greek Life.

I'm glad you stated above that you meant no disrespect, but that did strike me as a disrespectful comment to make to someone who has been on this board for almost 20 years advising and supporting PNMs.

Good thing I was standing in WHole Foods when I read that post. If I had been at home the string of expletives would have been several minutes long...

OMG. The mean girls are out tonight.

There was some pretty disrespectful snark aimed at me in this thread, as well as a few damned near abusive private messages, for stating facts that all contributors versed in NPC recruitment have stated in these forums for years. AZTheta and I have managed to acknowledge that this was not our best moment. Perhaps others should try to move on as well?

I am not certain whether I ever shared this on GC, because I often type it but then delete it because I didn't want to out the girl, but...

One of my interns, several years and many jobs ago, was a sorority member at an SEC school.

We had frank conversations about race and she said that she knew a fact that her sorority would not pledge a black girl.

She said she wouldn't personally want to put the girl in a position where she'd have a miserable time.

She talked around the elephant in the room, which was that there were racists in her chapter.

HOPEFULLY I was able to drop a nugget of wisdom about the problem with being a bystander to racism. It's not noble to be silent in the face of prejudice.

People of color need to be able to trust that the white people in their lives will call out shenanigans in membership selection.

I have read and re-read this thread, trying to figure out where and when it got off the rails. I give up.

(1) What Sen said times a zillion. No it is NOT noble to be silent in the face of prejudice. Daily reminders all around us. /side note: I witnessed massive prejudice against overweight women, across all chapters in a college, which continues to this day.

(2) I vote for coconut ice cream and mango boba with pearls. Would like to think that we can all take a step back. Tired of getting so much exercise jumping to conclusions, myself. Would rather be happy than right (at least today).

Oh yes, coconut ice cream! :) (Have not tried boba)

I can not state my pride enough in the girls who called out racists in membership selection. I don't care if we're supposed to keep membership selection secret, racism in selection is WRONG! I know y'all remember what happened at Bama with alums in recent years.

Boba is NOT an everyday drink, it's a once-in-a-while drink. Here's a link that explains it:

https://www.drweil.com/diet-nutritio...-boba-tea-bad/

it is full of sugar so of course I love it.

Wondering if I should give update here or start a new thread. Should I have a poll?