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Thinking About Disaffiliation
Hello everyone!
I have been an active member of my sorority for the past four years. I had been very dedicated until becoming a recent alumna. After doing some reflecting, I feel like being in the organization was more so like running a business than experiencing a sisterhood. I had always promoted Greek Life for what it has to offer and I definitely would not be in the professional opportunities I am experiencing now without being involved in Greek Life very heavily throughout my undergrad. Reasons that I wish to disaffiliate mainly are from me disagreeing with our new member education as well as the fact that I do not believe my organization has anything to offer me as an alumna. I feel like the only thing the sorority is benefiting me in is on paper on my resume, but that is all. I have few actual friends in such a small organization (chapter-wise & nationally) and am not sure if this was the sisterhood intended for me. This is definitely something that has been on my mind for a few months. Any thoughts would greatly be appreciated. Thank you! |
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How about thinking down the road when you might have daughters or grand daughters who would be legacies? How about if you move to a new city and know absolutely no one there... you still have sisters that you can reach out to there. Don't dismiss the importance of that kind of friendship. You say that your organization has nothing to offer you as an alumna, yet you acknowledge significant professional opportunities that you have as a result of your membership. Unless you have some really significant, moral or ethical disagreement with the new member program, that seems to be a pretty minor reason for leaving..... |
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An after-college burnout from sorority life may be what you are experiencing. Four long years of dedication can become relief after graduation when sorority work is no longer one of your top priorities. Have you thought about what you might do as an alumna to help your sorority group become both what it could be and what you know it should be? Not just at a local level, but with a focus toward national headquarters issues and concerns. And please define how this is not the sisterhood intended for you, an initiate for life. Might connection with women in a local Panhellenic group be more appealing to your sensibilities? Being a twenty-something college graduate is enough of a life issue for some people today. You may desire a current personal focus on non-sorority issues for awhile, stepping away from sorority involvement without releasing your bond. |
What everyone said above.
And be aware that collegiate and alumnae membership are two completely different things. As an alumna, some people stay heavily involved, some aren't involved at all. For some, it can be used to network professionally, and others use it for friends to go out with on a Friday night, or to swap babysitting duties for each other's kids. Even joining an alumnae chapter isn't a huge commitment. Minor dues payments (my national and local dues amount to less than $100/year), a few meetings (once a month at the most), no attendence requirements, positions with few duties and responsibilities, and fun, adult social events. I would stick it out. As thetalady said, nothing is required of you right now. If all the sorority is to you is a line on a resume, that's ok. That's the case for most sorority members immediately after graduation. My last semester, I was so tired of it and ready to graduate. It could be exhausting. But since then, I've been my chapter's Recruitment Advisor, helped start our Erie, PA alumnae chapter, was the secretary in our Houston chapter, and I now volunteer as the Lead Editor for our national magazine. I would urge you not to dismiss it so quickly. Take a break! A long one if you need to. Then reevaluate. |
I am also confused as to why you would want to disaffiliate at this time as you can choose to be as active or inactive as you want to be as an alumna. I was initiated in 1964, a loooong time ago, and still remain in touch with several of my sisters. But right after graduation, we all pretty much scattered to the four winds and the four corners of the earth. Add in marriage, children, career, and all the other adult demands that come with being a young adult, most of us weren't active alums while we were establishing ourselves in our new roles and living far away from each other.
When our university's centennial rolled around some 20 years later, a pledge sister and I decided to organize a reunion for our pledge class and others before and after ours. We had a BLAST catching up with each other, and it was almost as if we hadn't had this hiatus at all. We sat at the football game with the adorable actives, and some guys from the school of the opposing team even tried to pick me and one of my sisters up LOL! (Lights were rather dim and they obviously had been drinking. LOL!) We had a large slumber party and felt like we were right back living in the house with each other. There was another small gathering on the opposite coast from where I live and was not able to attend. However, those who did thoroughly enjoyed it. It was not long after that that our national contacted me to serve as rec chair for the southern part of my state, which I was happy to do and got involved again. I continued with that until DH and I retired and moved here. Someone had written a rec for me, and I was happy to be able to pass that on. Your sisterhood is for life! I remember singing as an active "Chi Omega, yours forever, ever more to be..." That has certainly been the case for me and for tens of thousand others. As a recent graduate you may not feel that now, but you have a lifetime ahead of you. |
There are literally zero things you must do as an alumna. Dues are optional. Involvement with the chapter is optional. At some point you may have a daughter who would really rather be going through recruitment as a legacy. The new member program at your old chapter, unless they are doing illegal things, has no bearing on you. And even if they are doing illegal things, the question you should be asking is whether to report those things to your HQ (you should).
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Reply to current messages
Thank you, everyone!
To answer more specific & general questions, I am part of an MGC sorority. I am currently a newly employed individual at an FSL office and have discussed my situation with an Associate Director. As I have grown and matured more over the years, I do believe I never appropriately asked the right questions when inquiring about the organization. More specifically, many practices that my sorority is doing, according to my AD, may be "indicative of hazing." Prior to joining Greek Life, I told myself that I would never stand for anything related to hazing. I currently feel a little broken, because I am having to deny parts of my identity/what I have basically built for the past 4 years because I do think that being in a professional role is forcing me to deny what my organization is practicing. As for alumnae relations, if I would hypothetically move to another place, reaching out to a fellow sister is not on my mind. While we may be in the same sisterhood, we are still strangers. From my experience, I do think the concept of trust was in a way manipulated throughout the years. I am not really close to many sisters, just probably enough to count on my fingers. My entire undergrad I felt so alone and overly stressed trying to make everything work. I complain more about the organization than actually being happy about it. Right now, I just feel like I missed out on another more meaningful organization out there when I was just burning myself out during undergrad. As an alumna, my organization is so small that there are no professional development or anything in place to help me as a professional. I have always spent time and dedicated myself to helping the organization grow and realized when my time in undergrad was almost up, that I actually received very little in return that I can truly be proud of. |
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The things that my organization is doing is a national issue. Reporting it to my nationals would not do any good as every chapter has been basically doing the same thing for almost 30 years. |
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I really thought about sticking it out, but if something were to happen to the organization nationally, I do not want to be associated with it or be labelled as someone who supports what I know is wrong, especially as a a current pre-professional in the field. I am just beginning my life and want to secure myself and my career as well. |
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I contacted my regionals last month and my message was forwarded to nationals and I never received a response back. Also, my organization always sets up phone calls and nothing is ever written on paper, so I unfortunately do not think a paper trail would work. :( |
MGC groups are not as regulated as NPC ones. Most of us here are NPC women so we just don't have much to offer you. Sorry you are dealing with this.
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Final Thoughts
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Thank you all so much for your help thus far. It has been really hard to express my thoughts to people about all this for years and I felt that Greek Chat was the only space where I could get the most unbiased answers anonymously. |
So you want to disaffiliate because your chapter might be hazing? You are an alum, what does this have to do with you? Why is this a necessary thing to do? Doesn't make much sense to me, but it's your life.
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Clarifying
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I want to disaffiliate because my organization nationally does not believe what they are doing is considered hazing. & as an alumna, even though I am not heavily involved in the organization, I am thinking that I should cut off my association with the sorority. If something were to happen in the news on a national level, I am concerned for my career of being labelled of someone who "supported" an organization that hazes. I feel like I run the risk of people thinking that I support the organization and what it is doing, especially as a new member of the professional FSL community. I just want to secure my new and upcoming career as all. Even though this concern of mine takes priority, I have overall been mostly unhappy being a part of the organization. |
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Hi 7Silver17, Thank you for sharing some extra information. Your explanation of the general situation of what you're facing helps us better understand where you are coming from. I have been a very active alumna member of my NPC organization for 13 years. Prior to changing careers, I worked in higher education and specifically sent some time working in our FSL office. I do have some thoughts to share in all sincerity. First, you said that your AD felt that some of the things you described "may be" indicative of hazing. Without you explaining the exact activity involved (and you don't have to), it's hard to pin down if this situation truly is hazing or not. Any FSL staff member worth their salt would know right off the bat if something was hazing. However, it sounds as if the activities described fall into a gray-ish area. (?) For example, "We were required to chug bottles of vodka and then circle each other's fat." That would be obvious hazing. "We were told we would have to be able to recite the 12 founders' names any time someone asks" or "our pledges do a scavenger hunt" would be a more gray area. According to you, at the time you participated, you had it in mind that you would never stand for hazing; but, you imply that you did participate in activities that you now think "may be" hazing. Sincere question, did it occur to you at the time (as a collegian), that this activity was, or might be, hazing? I'm not criticizing, I'm just trying to understand because it seems like it didn't bother you at the time even though you said you "...would never stand for anything related to hazing" Quote:
Is this issue "national" because it is literally printed in the new member education materials put out by headquarters or is it "national" because many chapters do this activity and no one's stopping them? Here, I have to wonder why any national GLO would outright place or advertise hazing activities in their new member program. Again, is it a gray area activity that may be innocent on paper but implemented incorrectly by individual chapters? (see my examples above). Quote:
Respectfully, this doesn't hold water. Every friend starts out as a stranger. It's when we get to know people that we build relationships and they turn into friendships. So, it's probably not the strangers thing that gets you, it's more likely that you simply just don't want to reach out or associate because of your negative feelings towards the GLO. That's perfectly ok to feel that way. Quote:
Since you say that the organization's national entity does not believe what it's doing is hazing, then either the organization is horribly and dangerously off-base or the activity really may not be hazing like you think it is. I dealt with a MCG sorority hazing case - the pledge came into my office sobbing, in clear distress, and outright asked me for help. That situation, based on her narrative, was an obvious case of hazing. There was no hesitation on my part that it "may be indicative of hazing". It WAS hazing and I reported the chapter to the FSL Director immediately. So, as a former FSL professional, I'm really getting stuck on that your AD didn't seem to know if it was hazing or not. Also, I want to reassure you that your affiliation with your sorority will not ruin your student affairs career like you think it will. In my experience, no one really pays that much attention to it, even in the FSL segment of student affairs. In the FSL office, we were all GLO members. Yes, we knew who belonged to which fraternity and sorority; but, no one tripped on if one sorority was thought to be better than another or if one had made the news or not. If you look at the national news recently, there have been a number of really horrible high-profile embarrassments and tragedies for a few national GLOs. No one in FSL is going to look at you and say, "Oh, you're an XYZ? Isn't XYZ the sorority that <fill in the blank>?" FSL advisers are smart enough to know that one mistake or one bad chapter or one bad programming idea doesn't mean all members are bad. You will not be black-listed from FSL professional events or career opportunities. If anything, FSL practioners would likely be the MOST supportive of you and your GLO. I think that the "my alumnae sisters are all strangers anyway" and "my national office only does phone calls" and "I'm afraid my Greek Life career could be hurt" are simply your attempts to justify your desire to disaffiliate from your GLO for whatever reason it is you really wanted to disaffiliate. If in your heart you truly believe that the activity is hazing, that the organization is a supporter of hazing, or that you otherwise have a moral or ethical objection to the values of the organization, then I support your decision to disaffiliate. Truly. |
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Thank you so much for your message. To clarify, when I was in undergrad, I DID NOT believe what I was doing was considered hazing. It wasn't until last semester when I went to my FSL office and asked my AD in person if activities XYZ were hazing and she flat out said yes. I then communicated to her that the activities are written on a national level, as in EVERYONE in EVERY chapter is expected to conduct basically the same activities in the same way. I asked a fellow sister if we could change things on a chapter level, but person X responded to me saying that our chapter would not be recognized if we did our own thing. The people are different in every chapter, but everything in our manual/book is meant for every chapter to perform such activities. It is also meant to be "read as if an administrator is reading it," as similarly quoted by another fellow sister who explained it to me. To me, hearing that sounded suspicious, which made me want to ask more questions. So to also double clarify, I did not think what I was doing was hazing before I asked my AD a few questions last semester, which at the time, I was getting ready to go into the field of FSL. And, I believed that I needed to have my personal thoughts/feelings about the activities discussed as I need to know what is truly hazing or not as a newly rising professional. |
Without touching on the hazing bit, which others have covered, you'll probably be limited in jobs in FSL without a fraternal affiliation. Many positions I see posted have a requirement or expectation that applicants be a member of an inter/national fraternity or sorority.
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^Unless OPis trying to clear the way to AI into something else.
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As an attorney, the legal definition and the Sigma Nu (which I assume is the FIPG) definition of hazing are very different.
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http://fipg.org/ Quote:
Sigma Nu: http://www.sigmanu.org/file/collegia...guidelines.pdf Quote:
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Most NPC groups use MJ Insurance now. And my statement was vis-a-vis state law which you didn't quote.
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Since we are on the topic of defining hazing. I know that my organization believes what it is doing is not hazing, yet FSL professionals have told me it is.
In our new member education, there is NO paddling, physical/emotional/mental abuse, or anything very obvious of the like. What is currently in place that is debatable is how the information during new member education is presented. As a member of an MGC organization, I want to know what is the true definition of hazing. My FSL AD told me that it is up to an individual's interpretation, but that just makes it harder for me to prove or explain whether something is hazing or not, esp when it comes to subtle hazing. Any more thoughts or advice? |
That is very true if it isn't spelled out by your insurance company or the state. You might check those two but I would imagine your national org is following their insurance - at least in writing. But what I might think is hazing, you might not and vice versa. It's often hard to say. We have to write "happy notes" to people at work on their birthdays. I absolutely HATE doing it. I would consider that hazing if it was my sorority....but someone else might not.
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If things are still unclear, you might find that the chapter in question's national office will be extremely helpful in cooperating with you and responding to your concerns. Absent a willing/helpful national organization, you might collect more facts or bring things to your superiors or to the university general counsel. With most NIC groups (not all), you will find a national office which is probably even more eager than you are to get to the bottom of things and take appropriate action. |
Is your FSL AD a member of an MGC org?
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You sound like you are a genuine caring, concerned person. If you don't do everything in your power (calls, letters, etc) to try and shine a light on what you feel is inappropriate this will stay with you forever. God forbid that someone is hurt down the road as a result of whatever you deem the problem. I have been a member of three different alumnae chapters over the years and every time I moved, they were complete strangers. However, those women quickly became friends. While you may not see the value in that now, you may as you find yourself in a new city down the road. I would work from within to be a change agent.
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Has your organization (on a national level) struggled with disaffiliation and member retention? Have a lot of chapters been closed for risk management issues? Are universities reluctant to recognize your group because of its practices? Those would be a better indication of whether your org is truly hazing than an AD who sounds like they drank the kool-aid and who thinks any way other than the way their conference does it is wrong. If you have your own personal issues with your group, then working them out somehow before you enter the FSL field is imperative. But that doesn't mean your whole org should get thrown under the bus. |
I have chatted with the OP offline. I'm not going to reveal anything I think OP would rather leave unsaid. There were 4 items that concern her. NONE of them have anything to do with physical hazing. ALL 4 of them are done by various groups -I'm including NPC, IFC and NPHC groups of which I have knowledge as told to me by friends/relatives who are members of some of those groups. So I am not surprised that she is getting different answers from different people in Greek Life because they all belong to different groups. That being said, my group forbids two of them as we have determined that they might,maybe,possibly could be considered psychological hazing by some women. NONE of them are "specifically" listed in the information Kevin posted though in the NPC statement on hazing anything that could cause discomfort or embarrassment is banned. So,what we have is someone who is concerned about all 4 things grouped together which made/make her uncomfortable. And she should be respected for her feelings even if some of us would not be uncomfortable with those activities. Hope this helps!
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To be clear, that was the FIPG statement on hazing. I don't pretend to know anything about any sort of NPC anything.
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Reply to Sen's Revenge & GreekOne
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My FSL AD is from NPHC. |
Reply to 33girl
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Also, I do not mind talking about what my organization does, especially since I am doing this for educational purposes, but would respectfully request that it is inquired through a private message. After receiving different answers on what hazing is, I myself feel awkwardly confused so I do not mind having a discussion about it, privately messaged, of course.
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How do you think your ability to work with MCG groups in a professional capacity will be impacted if it's known that you chose to disaffiliate from your organization?
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