Part II of the discussion on Enna's thread, discussing Rush in general
 

I moved this because I felt that Enna deserved this discussion not to be on her thread. Which others must be thinking since, we keep apologizing to her. I am hoping we will pick up from here:

In any given rush:

You have 1/2 of the PNMs above 3.3; members of the cheerleader or dance team, tennis, basketball, volleyball player; served on SG in some capacity from school President to class rep.; (for those in the south) campus beauty, homecoming queen, probably in at least one pageant. If this is a southern school the chances are that at least half are legacies to at least one chapter and legs or not have a min.. of one rec per group.

1/4 of the PNMs have 2.8 – 3.25 GPA, they are members of several student clubs, etc.

and 1/4, just barely meet the requirements set by the school PHC to participate in rush, but maybe not to meet the requirements for pledging.

Now who are you going to look at first? There is not one person on this board that would look at the girl with the 2.25 GPA and no activities, before they looked at the PNM with the 3.6GPA, student body secretary, tennis captain.

Depending on your chapter, you most likely have to automatically drop anyone below a 2.75… Some chapters drop you under a 3.0. (When I was in school we took two grade risks… but now I do not think they take any, it’s just too risky).

If you are at LSU, Ole Miss, MS State, Texas, Auburn, etc. you are dropped if you do not have a rec by the second/third day. Now I know NPCs policy is that it is the chapter’s responsibility to find you a rec… I am here to tell you FIND your own recs!!! I am not saying that recs are not found, but if you are going to school at Ole Miss and you are from Sunnyside, NV; good resume or not, chances are there will be several chapters that will not take the time to call NV (there is not time to check on every PNM without a rec). There are many schools that do not require recs, there are also many schools that ***say they do not***… But I promise they look at them if they are received.

We have seen many girls on this board go through recruitment. We must remember that some of us have taken the time to get to know them. This is something that actives/members have little time to do during rush. Your resume and I hate to say it picture sell you. Once you get your foot in the door, your personality does the rest. However, even the not so nice girls can be on their best behavior during rush. You also have those great, sweet, outgoing etc. girls that can get run down, become sick; or just do not do well in large groups trying to speak over others and do not come across well.

Another problem lately seems to be GLOs cutting to many up front. Some schools are now using certain release figures, they might not have used in the past. Causing chapters to miss quota for the first time in xx years. We have all seen this in the last two years.

I am sure all of us GC alums have are not so old that we have forgotten what rush/recruitment is like. It is the policies and procedures that have kept our organizations going, in some cases for over 150 years. I agree that p/p’s should be updated on occasion to better fit the generations. However, in a lot of cases until the PNMs all go through rush with an open mind and the idea that I would like to be a member of the greek system, not just do or die (insert your GLO). Things are going to stay somewhat the same. I do not think that the chapters are going to stop going for the same xxx PNMs, because those are the ones with a proven track record, GPA, leadership, teamwork, etc. I know we all have friends that are dear to us, but that did not contribute much in school, except help us with our boyfriend issues and were fun to shop with... There is no way that I would ever want my chapter to lower it’s standards, etc. and let in the PNM with a 2.25 GPA, who showed not an ounce of leadership or team work/involvement in High School. Who would carry the chapter on through the next 150 years?

I totally agree with you A&A! I know some people may slam me for this, but its my opinion...we are talking about orgs. that are a 100+ years old in some cases and our founders and past alums have always held other women up to certain standards to join. Why would we change that now, so it can be PC and everyone get a bid?
Granted, we all know women who were allowed to slip through the cracks (ie. Enna and Blazercheer). These, i'm sure, are wonderful girls with wonderful assets. But maybe the time just wasn't right for them, just like every organization isn't right for you. I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason.
But we can't change 100 years of tradition bc of it.

but thats just what i think.

I agree, maggieaxd--we should not drop our standards just so no one's feelings get hurt. It sounds harsh, but that's the way it is. You don't see employers giving all applicants jobs just so everyone can have one, do you? It's the same here. That's why we don't worry about quota--we're not going to sacrifice our standards just to say, "Oh, we have X number of new members!" We take the ones we sincerely want, but we don't want to hand out bids to girls we don't think would make good sisters (for whatever reason) just so we'll be the biggest group on campus. That's not fair to us or the PNMs.

And as for the recs--yes, get your own!!! My campus says sororities are responsible for obtaining them, but I've heard that really, really rare. Now, I didn't have any because I told all the alums I knew not to write any because I didn't think it was important, and I did end up at my first choice. STILL, though...it's better to just go ahead and get them for yourself; that way, you'll likely have more of an edge than someone without them.

Why thank you maggie... and please do not worry about being slammed... everyone is entitled to their opinion (plus the color blue, appears purple to some!

And you are so right, many great girls slip through the cracks every year. We have all seen it. I am with you, everything does happen for a reason. There are many GC members that went through rush twice before they found their home... and are often much happier the second time around... Carnation knows of a PNM who went through three times to get the GLO of her choice and God Bless her she succeeded!

I know, I felt bad hijacking Enna's thread, but some of the best discussions on here have come from tangents!

Being from a campus where if you really wanted to be Greek, you could be, it's hard for me to imagine some of the issues that SEC and Big 10 schools have to deal with. However, I will reiterate that I think a lot of problems would be solved if open rush wasn't such a 4-letter word (or actually, 2 4-letter words :D). I truly think that there are a lot of women out there who would make stellar sisters and leaders, but they don't want the hassle of formal rush. If they're at a school where COB is looked down on, or not publicized, they probably won't do it - they'll join something else instead.

I know we've been supposed to be going away from the frilly formal rush emphasis for at least 10 years (you know, the whole make them your friend, etc) but I think it's been nothing more than lip service on the part of NPC. I'll reiterate the other point I made and say that I believe member RETENTION is far, far more important than who got the biggest pledge class or who made quota 50 years in a row. Look at the smaller chapters on your campus and see how many of the women who joined as freshmen are still active as seniors - then look at the "showpiece" chapter, and see what the story is there. I know that's somewhat of a sweeping generalization but it was my experience.

As long as NPC keeps emphasizing pulling in the numbers in rush, rather than retaining them throughout school and for life, I don't think anything is going to change.

Oh, and re always going for the superinvolved students from HS, I have to think about a girl I graduated with - our National Honor Society prez, French club prez, yearbook editor, model legislature participant, Junior Achievement leader. Sounds marvelous, right? She got kicked out of Penn State after a semester due to her partying and bad grades. Just to state that you might have been a big deal in HS, but a lot of times it has NO reflection on what you do in college (or vice versa).

We don't have 100 years of tradition behind our current rush system. I wish I knew more exactly historically, but things weren't always done the way they are now.

The thing is, rush varies sooooo much from school to school and region to region. A&A's description of rush, while accurate at some schools, isn't anything like it was and still is at my school. Recs? Never saw one. Beauty queens? I knew one during college, and she didn't rush. Cheerleaders? There were a few. Legacies? Almost none. Grades? Yeah, we looked for good grades, but girls got in without stellar ones.

There are schools where formal rush is the only way to get in, and schools where you can join any chapter without going through it. There are schools where even the weakest chapter is filled with beauty queens, and schools where appearance isn't that important. Could I, as a first-generation Greek, with no recs, no cheerleading, flag teaming, class officing, pageanting, nowhere near my hometown with no one from my high school, have gotten into ANY house in a big Southern rush? No way! And maybe I and they would both be missing out, but hey, if it works for them ... the chapters are big and strong, so maybe I shouldn't criticize.

I don't think ANYONE, except maybe a few advisors with too strong a desire for parity, is suggesting GLOs lower their standards. I do think that maybe judging a gal based on a few hours at most of stilted rush parties can't tell you whether she's really a good person or not - but making an impression quickly is important, because she'll have to turn it around and do it again the next year for the next bunch of rushees. I think a more thoughtful rush would produce *better* quality sisters. I think you shouldn't invite a girl to pref unless you'd be willing to bid her, so why are girls going to multiple pref parties, not SIPing, and not getting bids? That's what I think people are perceiving as unfair.

But despite all that, the problem isn't the system, I don't think, as much as I may not like the system as it is now. The system can work, as some schools show. The problem is that the NPC rush rules are not universally and equally applied. Raise your hand if you've seen any of the following at a school you know:

1) Sororities releasing too few girls
2) No use of quota plus
3) Problems with a bid-match system (technical ones)
4) Slip-ups that end up with a girl not being invited to the right parties
5) Rho Chis that don't care if their girls drop
6) Need for expansion but no GLO has the money necessary to come in
7) Dirty rushing totally being ignored
8) Ceiling not being adjusted for the number of rushees (aka numbers are going up or down and rushees are crying or the houses are all begging for members)
9) Girls being forced to accept bids they don't want
10) SIPing being encouraged/allowed (even if you like it, it is against NPC policy)

If none of these are going on at your school, congratulations. I bet you have a strong system, most houses are at or near ceiling, and the majority of qualified rushees (not just the "best," but no 1.5 GPA drug dealers) are getting spots. But if not ... and I'm going to bet this is most schools ... something needs to be done. Maybe not as drastic as my earlier suggestion. Maybe just a "cleanup" of the process. At my school there was rampant distrust of the Greek life advisor, and he was notoriously secretive about the bid-matching process. I would dearly love for Panhellenic to come in and take a look at things for us.

If, after the system is working properly, qualified girls and strong chapters are still unhappy with the process, it would be time to change it. I do think that GLOs all over the country should have high membership standards, but I don't necessarily think that works for one sort of campus will work for another. Some locales don't have a strong Greek tradition and girls have to be coaxed. Others have to turn away legacies. If you want both systems to be strong, it would make sense to approach them differently.

As far as following tradition goes, of course this is an important part of greek letter society. However, I would be very surprised if anyone here could tell me that certain things, like chapter meetings, rush, new member education, and social activities are held in exactly the same way as they were 100 years ago. In fact, some aspects are VASTLY different then they were 20 years ago! Yes, upholding the essential traditions are important to the survival of an organization. But so is changing and growing. As with anything in this world, those who can't adapt get left behind. What worked before won't always work in the future, and just because what worked before seems to work now doesn't mean that there's an even better way. And whoever finds it will be ahead of the rest until they decide to catch up. Just a thought.

While we don't have 100 years behind our current recruitment system... It was 100 years ago in 1902 that Pi Phi, Gamma Phi, Kappa, Theta, Alpha Phi, DG and Tri-Delta joined together to form the Natioinal Panhellenic Conference... and only a year later Chi Omega and A Chi O joined.

And 151 years since women came together to form bonds that would soon lead to groups that we now call sororities/fraternities/GLOs.

FuzzieAlum, I agree that my description only fits some schools, as yours fits others... and I am sure that there are some in between both descriptions.

I am sure that our fellow sisters looked for some of the same traits in a new member/sister that we do today!!!

I just have to say I LOVE PI PHI!!!

I am sure there are many of the same things we look for - high character, scholastic achievement, friendliness, etc. But, aside from good grades, how the rest of it is expressed is different. 100 years ago, we didn't have cheerleaders or many beauty pageants. Girls who were very athletic probably would have been looked down upon. And I'm sure the clothes we think are cute for rush would have gotten them booted out of school!

All I'm saying is that while tradition is important, society slowly changes. We oughtn't be wedded to the idea of doing formal rush the same old way just because we did it in the past, or we'll render ourselves archaic. I don't think that has to mean giving up standards. I don't think that formal rush gets a sorority "better" members than informal or COB does, and there might be a system out there that gets us even more terrific members. I know a lot of great women who would have been great Greeks, and I ask myself, well, why aren't they Greek? If it was the system that deterred them, I wonder if a different system could bring them in. I'm not saying we should just get more women, no matter who they are, or that anyone who is interested deserves a place.

After all, one of the reasons the NPC was formed was to end bad practices like pledge-stealing and joining more than one sorority. The NPC was designed to make sorority life better and increase inter-Greek cooperation. Likewise, nowadays, it addresses issues such as alcohol-free housing and fair expansion. It still is changing the way we rush - look at the push for no-frills rush. I don't think we should be afraid to tinker with recruitment in places where it doesn't work as well as it ought.

Re: Part II of the discussion on Enna's thread, discussing Rush in general
 

I don't know about this. I think I can say that I would, IF. I would if I just plain old LIKED the girl with the 2.25 and no activities better. I understand that groups want women with good grades and activites, but when it comes down to picking sisters with whom you will be sitting up all night in your pajamas eating ice cream and crying over heartbreak, who in the heck cares if she was on student council in high school? Maybe I'm weird, but I don't see how that woman makes a better sister. I do understand that grades matter in that they are a requirement, but I'm talking about the rest of the stuff. And the whole beauty queen thing -- I know it does matter at some schools, but how in the heck does being a beauty queen make someone appealing as a SISTER?

I see it as more of a zen thing I guess. If you're talking to someone and you just *like* her, you feel it and I don't think that other stuff matters so much. To quote from the awesome History of the Alpha Phi Fraternity book I just received, our founders felt the "need of a social center, a place of conference, a tie which should unite, a circle of friends who could sympathize with one another in their perplexities." By worrying about activities and what not, aren't we actually getting away from the true meaning of sisterhood?

I agree with a lot of what has been said in this thread. I was someone who was dropped from recruitment and then became a sister in Tri-Delta. The reality is that many girls who really want the greek experience and would make great sisters just are not very "good" at rush.
The main problem with rush is that you have to have a certain type of personality to get through it successfully. You have to be extremely self-confident, good in a large group, and be able to BS people extremely well. Those are great traits but, personally, I don't want all my sisters to be the same.
We have to remember that the girls going through rush are about 17 or 18 years old. There whole personalities haven't even formed yet. Shouldn't rush be a time to get to know the "real" them vs. a glamour shot and 20 mins of what's your major?
I know that most greek women were "sucessful" rushees and therefore their first inclination is protect the system that got them where they are, but we are cheating ourselves and our sisterhoods when we say that the NPC formal recruitment system is the best way to pick sisters.

Some of the things I think could improve recruitment:
1) END DELAYED RECRUITMENT - I know this is controversial but coming from a delayed rush school I can honestly say it is necessary. In principal, delayed recruitment makes sense (helps the girls adjust to school first, ect.). However, in reality, it ensures that rushees are NOT going into rush with an open mind (they've been listening all fall to what people have to say). It also severly tempts dirty rushing. GLO's want to get the best girls and they spend all semester trying to identify them and sway them before rush even starts. (it makes for a very unfair playing field among rushees) Finally, with delayed rush, the grades with which you are consided are the grades from fall of freshman year not the 4 years worth of high school grades you have. (I personally had about a B/B+ average in high school but with the stress of going to college and all the change in my life my first semester grades in college were the worst grades I ever got)
2) Be more honest about the recruitment process - While this is less of a problem in places where rush education is done in the high schools, I am from New York and no woman I know had ever rushed before. I knew nothing. If I had known it was my responsibility to get recs, I probably would. It should not be the responsibility of rushees to discypher the rush rules. Sororities should spell them out clearly, not make misleading comments like "don't worry if you don't have a rec" or "it doesn't matter if the picture's good, it's for identification purposes"
3) Make first rounds longer - When first rounds only last 20 or 30 minutes and you meet 2 or 3 sisters, how can houses really get any idea what the girl is like? Unless she does something completely outrageous, a 10 minute conversation does not adequately tell you whether you want to share your sisterhood with a person. I once calculated that after going through all of rush at my school you would have spent a total of two and a half hours with the house to which you joined. I personally wouldn't even except a date with a guy I'd only met for two and a half hours.

I know some of the things I have said may seem like the ramblings of someone who was rejected and is angry, but remember that I am a sorority woman too and I want great sisters just like you all do. I do not advocate the idea of open rush or the lowering of sorority standards. However, I do strongly believe in mutual selection. Unfortunately, the system we have now, I believe, stacks things too far in the sororities' favor and makes the reality into "I end up where they took me." Mutual selection means putting power not only into the sorority's hands but also into the rushees.

P.S. I do not believe that thinks happen for a reason. Sometimes the machine that is rush gives bids to women who make lousy sisters and eats great interesting girls alive. Sometimes the machine does both at the same time. That is the reality of rush.

To quote our previous National VP of Membership
 

"Bid Day is not the chapter report card of recruitment. It's the kick off of recruitment!"

FuzzieAlum, I think you, HelloKitty and me are the only ones who think that the sororities have all the power in rush and are not hesitating to use it. The popularity of sororities comes and goes. Remember the 60s and 70s? Well, this period followed an incredible boom in sororities of the 40s and 50s. During the 40s and 50s, like now, the sororities became increasingly selective every year as more and more women rushed. It is the simple rule of supply and demand. Now the demand to be in sororities is great and the supply is not expanding at the same rate. It is easy when are in a position of power to demand and get everything you want. Right now that is a 5'2"-5'6", size 6, freshman, who is blond with blue or green eyes, who also has a 3.5-4.0 G.P.A. and also was a cheerleader or some other kind of major celebrity in H.S. Or as close to this as possible. It seems all the houses go for this and they don't really care if they get quota because after years of great rushes most are over campus ceiling anyway. So what if they only get 40 when quota is 50. If they have 180-200 members who's going to miss 10? Unfortunately, many great women are being permanently turned off and they are tellling their frioends and family. Some of these women who in any other era would be sought after women will take this experience into their lives and never recommend sororities to their daughters or anyone else. It takes decades to recover from being "out". We need to consider some of the recommendations that have been proposed to level the playing field like guarantee the rushee a bid if they go to pref night and have followed all the rules.

I just wanted to add that during the 60s and 70s on my campus the following sororities had to close due to lack of members: SDT,AGD,AXD,AXO,ZTA, and DZ. Also ADPi, AEPhi, KD and GPhi B were just hanging on only getting 1/2 quota every year and quota had gone down to very low numbers. Even the houses that were getting quota barely had enough members to sustain the houses financially. All members were required to live in or they lost their pins.We need to take seriously what happened at UGA and USC. I am afraid that we are getting a rep for being elitist and we will pay for it again.

question....
 

Just curious what is typically considered more desirable when you meet a PNM - stellar grades and minimal activity, or adequate grades with lots of social and volunteer activities and leadership experience? For instance, OPA (not an NPC group of course) looks for service and leadership first/

The problem -- one size does not fit all!

We need to recognize the fact that the present NPC formal recruitment process does not fit all campuses. Although the process works and is needed on many campuses due to the number of PMN and groups, the process also hurts many other campuses. For example, the process generally does work when being Greek is a positive element on a campus.

Then, we need to have at least one or two types of alternative formal recruitment processes based on campus characteristics. Or at least recommend how to modify the present process based on the type of campus. There have seen so many good ideas on GC that improvements can be made if we only first admit that one process will not work on all campuses.

My favorite post idea was the one suggesting that juniors should not count against quota. Wow, such an easy change that would encourage and not discourage, and overall benefit recruitment. Unfortunately, the need for improvement has to be recognized by the NPC leadership or everything will stay status quo.

I was shocked to learn that round 1 parties at some schools last all of 20 minutes, and sororities and PNMs are expected to make decisions based on that. PNMs and sororities really need more time together before cuts start being made, unless the only cuts made after round 1 are for grades.

If I could restructure formal recruitment, I would do this:

1. Require all Panhellenics to enforce release numbers.

2. Create a "no invite with interest" category so that a sorority can let a PNM know that the only reason she wasn't invited back was due to release numbers. I'm not sure how valuable this would be, since it might really break a PNM's heart when she gets only straight no's and doesn't get a "no invite with interest" from any sorority... but it also indicates to PNMs where they might get snapped up or where they should concentrate their COB efforts, and if someone is cut across the board it may be a little less devastating if she knows that in at least one or two cases it was only because of release numbers, not because of her personality or other factors.

3. A PNM should not be allowed to sign up for recruitment if she doesn't meet Panhel's or any sorority's minimum GPA, so that she doesn't get her hopes up during round 1 only to be cut across the board. PNM's should also be informed, before rush starts, of each sorority's minimum GPA; that way, a PNM with a 2.4 won't allow herself to fall in love with a house that requires a 2.5 (obviously she might still be taken as a grade risk, but if she is cut, she will know that it's because of her grades).

4. Lengthen round 1 parties. If that means that round 1 has to be stretched out over 2-3 days, so be it. Actually, what I'd really like to do with round 1 is similar to what my school does: You visit each house for 15-20 minutes. Then, you have an afternoon and evening, or a full day, or more, depending on how many sororities there are, to go back to whichever houses you choose. The open house should include enough time for a PNM to spend at least half an hour or 45 minutes at each house if she wants, and the PNMs should be encouraged to do so. This structure also means that if there are a couple of sororities you really don't like, you don't have to go back to them and can spend more time with sororities that you do like.

5. Don't count juniors and seniors against quota. They would still, of course, count against total. This allows smaller chapters to get up to size more quickly and gives more women the chance to go greek.

6. Allow PNMs to decline invitations even if that means they'd be going back to fewer than the maximum number of parties for that round. It should be discouraged, and PNMs who do it would not be allowed to use the "decline with interest" option, but it should be allowed. A PNM who cuts down to one sorority should be treated as if she ISP'd. This way, a situation doesn't arise where a PNM has been trying to cut a sorority all throughout rush, but they keep inviting her back, she is forced to keep going back, she ends up at their pref party, and either has to ISP or ends up getting a bid from a sorority she doesn't like and is now bound to for a year.

(whew... I wrote a novel, didn't I? :) )

You know... I think sometimes we forget...

anniesigkap, wrote something similar in another thread: In most cases we have not meet the PNMs on GC. However, each chapter has meet them (even if for a short time), reviewed their resumes/recruitment applications, recommendations and in some cases there are girls in the chapter that know the PNMs. If the chapter drops the PNM then they must have decided that maybe she was not the best fit. Or vice versa... if the PNM drops a chapter, she must have decided that they were not a best fit for her. ***This does not include the small percentage that falls through the cracks.***

I have seen lots of PNMs go through rush, not receive a bid, get snapped, COB, or even participate in formal recruitment a second time... ending successfully and happily!!!

I think while we should be supportive/sympathetic/helpful... we should not say things like: "You should COB; I know they'd LOVE to have you!" (Yes, that is written in another thread).

I think that being informative, encouraging, and sympathetic is appropriate. Saying a group would LOVE to have you crosses the line.

We never saw letters of recommendation when I was active so they were never taken into consideration. Groups did give extra consideration to legacies of course, but there were never more than a handful each year. I'm not even sure what snapped means. :confused:

As a sister, I would see about freshman go through rush with their hearts set on one of two or three sororities. Quota was 30ish. These sororities would easily get quota while the remaining would not. Dozens of women would be disappointed. They had decided before rush that they wanted ABC or DE or nothing. They contributed to their own disappointment by not having an open mind. How do you deal with that?

bwah hahaahaa


Seriously though, Alabama is trying something new this year with a seperate "upperclassman quota". http://www.cw.ua.edu/vnews/display.v...9?in_archive=1

New quota system looks to attract sophomores and upperclassmen
by Amanda Dawkins
Senior Staff Reporter
August 29, 2002

Upperclassmen may get a better shot at experiencing sorority life this fall due to a new quota system within the Panhellenic Association.

"The Panhellenic Association adopted a new quota system to make it easier for sophomore and upperclassmen to join," said Panhellenic spokeswoman Lydia Seabol. "We're trying to make recruitment more enjoyable."

During the past years of Rush, sophomores and other upperclassmen often found it difficult to obtain a bid from a sorority because sororities have typically tried to fill their quotas with freshmen. In an effort to make the process fair and less stressful, Panhellenic adopted a new quota in addition to the usual quota of new members that can be invited.

This year, houses can accept a certain number of non-freshmen in addition to their traditional quota, based on the number of sophomores, juniors and seniors participating in fall Rush.

Seabol said some of the criteria houses will look for in sophomores and upperclassmen are college grade point average, leadership and involvement.

Associate Dean of Students Rick Funk proposed the new system after witnessing how well it worked at Penn State. One representative of each sorority voted last spring, and the delegates decided they wanted to adopt the system for this fall's Rush.

Panhellenic President Kathryn Rutledge said some sororities were concerned about how the new quota would impact the smaller houses.

"They thought it would help the bigger houses get bigger," Rutledge said.

After a discussion, all opposition was dropped.

Seabol also said that if having more upperclassmen join sororities dramatically affects the houses, the new plan would be dropped.

"We're going to have a two-year trial period," Seabol said. "If it works out well and hasn't hurt any of the smaller houses, I think we'll continue using this system."

Seabol said the new system cuts down on competition between freshmen and upperclassmen recruits.

"If a chapter had to choose between two girls they liked equally and one was a freshman and the other an upperclassman, they would probably go for the freshman because they would be a part of the organization for four years," Seabol said. "The reason is partly financial. It's wrong, but that's the way it was and we're trying to change that. This [the quota system] takes them out of the freshmen competition."

Seabol said the new system is beneficial to houses, as well.

"They are able to get the girls they really want, but hadn't been able to take in the past because of quota," she said. "Some houses thrive on sophomores and upperclassmen. It'll be a good thing, because they'll be able to bring their own University experiences into the sorority since they've been here before."

Rutledge agreed that adding more veterans of the University would benefit sororities.

"They'll be good role models within the pledge class," she said. "We have about 50 sophomores and upperclassmen going through recruitment."

The exact number of upperclassmen that can be admitted into each sorority will not be determined until after the sixth Rush party. After that, a computer program will be used to figure out how many students each house will be allowed to accept.

Rutledge said Panhellenic will do more advertising for the system next fall.

Because of the significant number of transfer students entering the University, Panhellenic representatives will go to transfer sessions to encourage girls to go through Rush.

Anyone interested in learning more about the new quota system can call 348-6077. Applications for fall Rush are available in the greek life office in the Ferguson Center Room 343 or online at www.sa.ua.edu/dos.

Applications are due today, and Rush begins with an opening convocation tonight at 7 in the Ferguson Ballroom.

I wonder how that works?
 

The only way I can think of it being fair is having a freshman quota and then an all other quota. But in the end the total amount of quota doesn't seem to make sense to me.

In fact the way I'm seeing it, it would actually hurt a freshman's chances of getting into a larger house.

100 rushees
25 are not freshman
5 houses
-
traditional quota = 20
this system (if it works the way I think) = 15 freshman plus 5 others

So you'd have to have two seperate bid lists. Your freshman list and your others list. Well what if there's 5 freshman that you really like more that the others. Can't have 20 freshman, only 15. So five freshman get screwed!

That's not fair at all so I'm really hoping I'm wrong!

And you can't do quota is 20 plus x# others because they're already included in quota. This again leads to the big getting bigger!

I WANT the Hogwart's Sorting Hat for rush.

On the topic of how many upperclassmen are accepted during rush, I thought this was interesting:

I believe quota here is about 35 or so? I'm not entirely sure. But regardless, my pledge class of 31 people didn't quite make it. However, more than half of the girls in my pledge class were sophomores when we were initiated. I thought this was great, and assumed it was fairly normal, that all chapters should take about half and half each year, to keep it fair and minimize cliques and separations between pledge classes. But I guess it's not all like that. I was talking to a girl from another house recently, one that made quota (and probably a few extra) and I told her how many sophomores (now juniors) were in my pledge class, and her jaw dropped as she said, "Really?! We only have 2!". I was amazed by this, it just seems so elitist to me. I find it very hard to believe that one house just happened to find 35 freshman girls that were so much better than any of the sophomores who were rushing last year (and there were quite a few!). It sucks that chapters still seem to pay more attention to getting a lot of freshmen instead of slightly older girls...it's just not fair sometimes. :confused:

Re: I wonder how that works?
 

I think that's how it is going to work which is what I gleaned from the latest article. http://www.cw.ua.edu/vnews/display.v.../3d7c204416762

I agree with you though in that there is great potential for the biggest to get even bigger. I hope that maybe Bama_Alum or someone else in the know could tell us how it all plays out.

BTW - I am sorry to hear about the damage to the Delta Sigma Theta house.

Rush 2002 nears completion
by Amanda Dawkins
Senior Staff Reporter
September 09, 2002

The Panhellenic Association's fall Rush will come to a close Tuesday afternoon when sororities offer bids to potential new members in Bryant-Denny Stadium.

After a week of Rush activities, the rushees will be able to develop sisterly bonds with the sorority of their choice through pledging.

The first round of Rush consisted of ice water teas on Sept. 1. During the teas, potential new members visited 15 houses for 15 minutes each.

The second round of recruitment began Sept. 2. Philanthropy Day, implemented in 1998, was a day where potential new members made hands-on creative projects with sorority members to donate to different charities. Each sorority commits itself to a philanthropy or charity by raising money and working one-on-one with the organization. On Philanthropy Day, potential new members visited 10 houses for 30 minutes each.

The rushees participated in skit parties on Sunday. Skit parties consisted of songs and skits revolving around a theme of the sorority's choosing. Potential new members went to six houses for 45 minutes each.

Tonight is Serious Night, marking the final night of Rush, and the night's parties are by invitation only. An invitation to a preference event means a sorority is very interested in a potential new member. Each sorority presents a ceremony on what it means to be a sister and what the group offers to new members.

At the conclusion of Serious Night, the rushees walk to the Ferguson Center to fill out their formal membership recruitment acceptance cards.

Bids will be distributed Tuesday.

No black students signed up for Panhellenic Rush this year. The newly instituted upperclassman quota has not yet been determined, Panhellenic President Kathryn Rutledge said.

"All quota is determined after skit party. We have 73 out of 76 upperclassmen left. More upperclassmen went through Rush this year than last year," Rutledge said. "As far as upperclassmen quota, some houses didn't understand beforehand how it was going to work out. When they got more involved with voting, they understood it more."

Holly Morris, president of Kappa Alpha Theta sorority, said recruitment is going well for the sorority and the greek system as a whole.

"Rush went a lot smoother this year than last year," said Kay Tidwell, president of Alpha Gamma Delta sorority. "The new upperclassman quota has made things a lot easier. It's working very well. All the sororities have really been coming together and are really helping each other out."

Tidwell said Panhellenic is planning a cookout this week, after Rush is complete, to raise money for Delta Sigma Theta sorority, whose house was damaged in an early-morning arson last month.

This is a problem my campus faces due to rush being deferred to sophomore year. We had 26 women unmatched this year (many of whom were offered snap bids to the sororities who did not receive quota, and they declined because they weren't the ones that they had their hearts set upon) and 54 women dropped out of recruitment completely because they were released by their top choices. It's one of the downfalls of deferred recruitment. Also, sorry to be blunt, but I have no sympathy for the women who don't go through recruitment with an open mind and then complain because they didn't get bids from the places they wanted.

I would have to disagree with the criticisms I've seen here of deferred recruitment, but I have to admit my feeling is based only on my experience. My campus used to have deferred recruitment (second semster). Four years ago, they switched to first semester rush.

Rush numbers dropped precipitously. Quota was too low to enable any house to reach ceiling without COBing. Morever, total membership dropped. Numbers used to be something like 50, 50, 45, 30, 30 for the five houses. Today, they are 50, 50, 40, 20, and closed. I wouldn't attribute it to "low interest in Greek life," since the men did not see a similar decline. The school is now going back to deferred recruitment.

Perhaps my school is an anomoly, but deferred rush certainly helped our campus out.

It's interesting to see what the different sorts of problems are on different campuses. At mine, for example, perhaps because of the low numbers, a woman going through rush as a sophomore had no trouble getting a bid whatsoever. If she was a junior or senior, she'd be able to get a bid through COB certainly.

I think part of the problem is that the Greek climate truly is very different from school to school, and schools have limited flexibility in adapting it to their campus. And when it is "adapted" it is usually in a harmful way that drives away rushees.

I do have to agree with A&A that we truly don't know the rushee on the other end of the posting, though. We operate on trust here, so we assume MsRushee is really a college woman rushing and not an 80-year-old man, but we aren't getting the same perspective someone rushing her gets. We've probably all known psycho rushees, and we can never be sure that isn't who we're talking to. We ought to be careful about what exactly we say to them, although this doesn't rule out being comforting. Otherwise, someday an aggravated sorority member is going to come on here and say, "LOOK! MsRushee had terrible BO and was cursing the entire party! You would cut her, too!"

FuzzieAlum, I strongly believe that our numbers would go up if we switched from deferred to autumn recruitment. The most popular excuses that women give for not going through our current, deferred recruitment are:[list=1][*]I'm too busy.[*]I don't need to meet people; I already have friends.[/list=1]
If we had recruitment before women got all busy and involved on campus, then our numbers would certainly go up. We could tout it as a good way to get to know not only upperclassmen, but other freshmen you might not otherwise meet. We'd still have a very strong COB push in the winter, but I think our formal recruitment numbers would go up.

However, our administration wants to keep the Greek system under its heel, and they'd never ever let us move to fall recruitment. I wonder what they'd do if IFC/Panhel just up and decided that we were going to switch recruitment times. If we all agreed to it and just did it on our own, what could they really do?

I think whether deferred works depends on the campus culture. FuzzieAlum's alma mater is, from what I've heard, a very academically intense school - hell, I'd be afraid to get involved with the library club before I knew for sure what my classes would be like.

I think deferred is the greatest thing since sliced bread, just because I've seen too many people quit/transfer their first semester. However, keep in mind when I say deferred, I'm NOT referring to any of this silliness where the freshmen can't talk to Greeks for a semester, can't attend parties, can't talk to them in dorms, etc. Just let everyone interact normally and it will probably do a lot to help the freshmen get past the stereotypes.

And I completely agree with DWAlphaGam, if you go through rush with a completely closed mind and think that it would be "beneath" you to look at certain groups, sorry, but I'm not going to shed any tears for you.

I tried to respond to this, but it was lost in cyberspace. :mad:

My question is how can panhel and individual, smaller sororities combat this single-minded (close minded) attitude that many of the PNMs have?
54 women dropping out of rush! My sorority didn't even have 54 sisters when we would return in the fall semester.

33girl, you are sooooooooooo right about my campus. Let's just say it's an engineering school ... not the most socially ept group of women or men. And we did have the sort of deferred rush where you can talk to freshmen and whatnot. You just couldn't a) have them over to your house b) sell them on your chapter or c) buy them things unless you know them before school. I am sure there are schools where deferred rush would not work as well. I just don't think the option should be taken away for schools where it works.

I think there are a lot of reasons why women won't looking at chapter X. If chapter X is having membership retention problems recruitment problems, I wouldn't fault a girl who decided they weren't for her. (I personally applaud women who take a chance on a smaller chapter, but if a woman doesn't want to put as much work into building her sorority, I think that's a legitimate choice.) but if the girl won't consider X because it doesn't have the biggest house, the prettiest girls, and the most awards ... maybe she's just shallow and wouldn't make the best member anyway. Then again, esp. in a small Greek system, a woman can rush and really not feel at home anywhere. She shouldn't join somewhere just to get the letters if she's not feeling it.

But there are things chapters can do. A couple of the major mistakes I've seen smaller/struggling chapters make:
1) "We're small, so we won't cut anyone, and we'll bid anyone." Rushees know if X is inviting back everyone, and they can smell desperation. Cut early and cut often.
2) "She will never join us, so let's not even bother rushing her." Unless she comes out and rudely says, "I'll only be a Mu, so screw you," you still have a chance.
3) Rush 24-7. Yes, in a sense rush is year-round. But rush events shouldn't be. Members need a break to enjoy just being sisters and build up their sisterhood.
4) "The other sororities are just bigger because they're full of snobby, conformist suck-ups. Let's do things differently." Way to bite the hand that feeds you! Rushees can see this for what it is - bitterness. And they want to be part of the system. "Yeah, maybe they're snobs," thinks a rushee, "but at least they have mixers and fun!" And the other chapters generally wish the best for your chapter and would like to help you out - until you start trashing them. If it turns into a war, guess who wins.

Deferred Rush
 

I don't think deferred rush/recruitment is such a hot idea. My alma mater is going to deferred rush (February) for the first time this year, and I'm afraid that numbers are going to drop dramatically, and that my chapter, already much smaller than the others on campus, might close. :(

The fraternities at my school are also going to a slightly-deferred rush - September instead of August - and the administration has as much as said that they expect some of the smaller fraternities to close as a result. :mad:

With deferred rush, PNMs have spent at least one semester in school (and started to feel the associated pressure), made some friends, perhaps gotten involved in some clubs/sports/activities and/or gotten a job, and they may feel (rightly or wrongly) that they don't have time to devote to a sorority - so they don't even come out for rush, whereas they might have if rush weren't deferred.

Another argument for non-deferred rush is that new members will have the support of their sisters as they make the transition from high school to college. It's not an easy transition, and I can't begin to tell you how supportive my sisters were of me during my first semester.

:( I am beginning to think that in the South, it's impossible.:(

It's imperative to distinguish between competative rush and a less crazy situation. Yet all in all, I think it boils down to US as represented by GC.
Our own parents did or did not encourage us.
Told us we were legacies.
Said things like ABC really stunk at my school or XYZ is THE best.
There are issues with PANHELLENIC ALUM ASSOC.:mad: (This CAN'T be the ONLY place)
Then consider the Greek system on any and every campus and the competition for survival. When one GLO knocks down another PUBLICLY, it weakens the ENTIRE system!
We may not like it, but every day of our lives we are judged and put into some cubbyhole. Why would it be any differet for a sorority or a PNM? Diversity is the only way to avoid being pegged. I acknowledge some GLOs revel in their lack of diversity. For others, it does damage. The basic point is to get young people interested in the system. We MUST offer them something they won't find anywhere else. THAT'S HARD TO DO! This is why I too am against deferred rush...too many obstacles get in the way

Until we get rid of labels-and my current gripe DIRTY RUSH, we will never see a change. How many posts have I read where even individual CHAPTERS of a GLOs act like they are superior to another?
Sing your songs and chant your chants with that competative spirit and chapter pride, but for ONE WEEK OUT OF THE FRICKIN" YEAR, SUPPORT ONE ANOTHER AND BUILD!
(I honestly don't know if this made sense to anyone but me-TOM?)