How important are numbers?
 

With all the exciting threads about rush.. I couldn't help but wonder how important is the chapter size to PNM's? A group from my first university will begin recruitment in a couple of weeks, and while they are a small size, they are an extraordinary group of ladies that have gone through a lot to get where they are today... most of the other sororities are small in numbers as well (small greek school), so does is a small chapter size a "turn off" for PNM's?

I didn't think too much about it (obviously, because I ended up pledging a colony!), but a lot of fellow PNMs that went through with me really noticed and immediately discounted the smaller groups. I suppose they thought small = weak, but that's not necessarily true--but still, a lot of people think that way. My chapter is actually middle of the road when it comes to size on our campus, but we're that way for a reason--we're sort of picky about who we give bids to, and we operate on the idea that quality builds quality. We want quality girls, who will attract more of the same. So we're not the biggest on campus (we've got about 20 or 30 less members than the largest), but I think we've proven that that doesn't matter as our house is full of trophies from Greek events. ;)

So I guess the bottom line is that all PNMs don't worry about numbers, but quite a few of them seem to.

I think, for the most part, numbers do matter. However, I don't think a "little" smaller matters as much. I'm talking noticebaly smaller. Two things I've noticed in Rush threads:

1. PNMs complain about being rushed by a girl from a different school, feeling they aren't getting to know the actual members of ABC's house on that campus.

2. Having 2 PNMs on one chapter member because a house is too small to accomadate the rush numbers is seen as negative, PNMs might feel not as special as they do at other houses where they get individual attention.

I do think there are women out there who are looking for a smaller house, though. Just maybe not as many...

I get irritated when women discount us because we're small. Hel-LO! Do the math! Join and we won't be small anymore!

Hopefully we'll have another good rush and things will get better.

best of luck with recruitment kappakittycat!

My first university is an extremely small greek school. The students activites office has just recently shown interest in trying to boost greek participation by inviting inter/national sororities to expand to their campus, and for the first time in a long time, more girls are showing interest in joining. I was just wondering how small colony/chapter sizes might affect their decision to participate in formal recruitment.

Hey, Texas Princess,

Both John Caroll University and Valparaso University recently took all of their local GLOs national in one fell swoop. That's sororities and fraternities, and they all affiliated at the same time. It can be done. Kappa has chapters at both of those schools and they're thriving. You might suggest to your Greek Life Advisor that she contact the GLAs at JCU and/or Valpo for suggestions on taking groups national. Also, Carnation's school is in the process of trying to bring nationals onto campus, so she might have some additional advice.

Best of Luck.
KappaKittyCat

KappaKittyCat,
Thanks! The local "interest group" I was a member of will be colonizing with DphiE this semester! I'm so proud of them & wish I could be there. Another local sorority recently became a colony of Theta Phi Alpha, and one local sorority remains on the campus. All groups currently have small numbers because the school didn't really encourage greek activity until recently and I sure hope recruitment welcomes many new smiling faces to the Greek system this Fall! All but one of the fraternities are national on that campus as well.

On the importance of numbers... If the difference in size between the smallest and largest chapters isn't glaring (like, the smallest chapter has 80 and the largest has 100) then it doesn't really matter. But if it is glaring, particularly if there's one very small chapter and the rest are quite a bit larger, it can and does hurt the small chapter.

My chapter is, and always has been, in exactly that situation. We returned for rush one year with only 10 women, when the other 4 sororities returned with 70 or more each. Plus, as a new chapter, we didn't have a support base of chapter alums to draw on to help with rush. PNM's often cut us early on because they don't want to join the "small/weak" chapter; but those who stick with us learn that we may be small, but we're not weak! The big challenge we face is getting PNM's to accept invitations to round 2; beyond that, it seems that they tend not to factor size into their decisions as much.

(btw, that year that we returned for rush with only 10 women - we doubled in size :D )

small chapter size
 

I'm glad to hear that you did well with small numbers! My chapter is having their very first rush, and not only am I a little nervous about our small size (7 active members to start the semester with) but also our situation in relation to the other sororities on campus. KBG is the only sorority (of four) not part of Pan-hel, so we are holding our rush separate. I think it will actually be interesting to see how that affects us, whether positively or negatively (as we don't have to follow the set # of bids we can accept). I must say though, I am super excited to see how this works out! (our rush is this week!):D Wish us luck!

At my school, PNMs seem to look more at the quality of the sisters...their closeness to one another, their personalities, what the chapter does....and less at the actual size. Things can change very rapidly in GLOs, I've seen it happen here. One year an organization may be down in numbers, but the next they're the largest, and vice versa. Every organization here has definately had their slower periods, but we all manage to come out of it better off. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that potentials realize that it's not the numbers that are important, it's the sisters and the bonds you will make there that are.

nyrdrms, that is really cool.. what school are you going to if you don't mind me asking? is it a big greek school?

BootyKBG, best of luck in recruitment!

I go to Christopher Newport University, and no it's not a large Greek school. Our total enrollment is just over 5,000 and the last figures I heard concerning Greek life, we were only 5-8% of the campus. We have 3 NPC sororities, 2 IFC fraternities, 3 NPHC organizations, and Alpha Phi Omega. And for the NPC sororities, ceiling is capped at 50.

God can I totally relate to this thread!

Last weekend I was down for our mentoring session!

We have fallen to just 14 active members!

Last mentoring session we challenged them to get 30 ne NM!

They had 18 , pinning 2 the next night and looking for doing 40 before the recruitment ends in Sept!

Yes you need members as that is how you get money and pay bills!

BUT:

You may have the biggest New Member Class, but what we as Alums discussed very strongly, Make Sure You Initiate these new Associates! If they have problems with grades get help for them!

If there are other Problems, get help for them!

They are No Damn good if you dont!

I remeber a Fraternity who would pin a ton of guys, but only initiate a few! They are no longer on campus!:(

I don't think smaller numbers will turn off a lot of people. Some will but then there are those who are looking for a smaller sorority/fraternity and will see how strong those people are together. A smaller sorority was actually what I looked for this year during recruitment and they all know each other very well and are very close. But there are those will get turned off unfortunately.

That is cool.. my old university has approximately the same figures (as far as school enrollment and GLO's). do the sororities on your campus reguarly meet the 50-,member ceiling?

Tom E., congrats on challenging your chapter to get many New Associates! I wish them the best of luck. And as you pointed out, New Member retention is very important !

sbhill, how is it going with "smaller" sorority you looked for?

Smaller numbers can often be a slippery slope if you do nothing to control it. One house on my campus (two of them actually) just had their charter suspended and many members kicked out for hazing. They have 5 members. Friday night was the first night of rush and they signed 1 person. Girls who went to their party (and later came to ours) said they felt sorry for the 5 guys standing around in suits and ties staring at eachother.

Another house on my campus had the same thing happen to them numbers wise (and with the hazing). They mobilized their 7 remaining actives and their alumni base and have done a hell of a job recruiting. I think they signed around 10 the first night.

So numbers can work against you if you don't do anything about it.

Chapter size is pretty important to me... I would not want to be part of an exceptionally small or large sorority. I believe at UCR the Panhellenics are generally from 30-50 or so girls, although I could be mistaken. That seems like the ideal size for me!

XOXO,
Annie.

I only noticed numbers if they were CONSIDERABLY lower, which one sorority was. The thing is, though, some Rho Chis tell their girls which sororities are smaller and which are larger. It's bad enough that the other girls talk about which sororities are "better" and "worse" but it doesn't help that the Rho Chis are encouraging it. Not all, but some. I personally had no clue that DG was smaller than some of the others (it wasn't the smallEST, but it wasn't the biggest, either) but I thought they were the most like me and their skit and pref night were the best and stuff like that.
In addition, our campus has quota plus, which makes one sorority on campus always considerably smaller (or at least their pledge class). I'd explain the math to you, but it's kind of complicated and I don't fully understand it myself. Moral of the story is that the largest and smallest sororities on campus had a difference of around 100 members going into rush when I went through. PM me and I'll get on my full soapbox about that one. (And, FYI, DG was neither the largest nor the smallest)