Black Hair: In the workplace and school
 

A few weeks ago CNN-Talkback Live did a segment on a veteran city or county worker who had "twists". Her boss said that she had to remove the twists or she would be dismissed. Her boss, who on previous accounts commented positively about her new hairstyle. Yet, later insisted that she do away with the style or loose her job. The boss contends that the hair is not neat..yada yada. Whatever, that ladies hair was VERY neat.

This week locally, a student at a private school was asked to remove her cornrows from her hair. The school official said that students attending the school have to have styles where you are able to "comb through" the hair. They have tried to justify this by noting that a local black private (all boys) school does not allow braids or 'fros.

What's really going on? Aren't there bigger issues in the schools than if you can 'comb through' a person's hair?

Here is a link that shows a piture of her hair.

http://www.savannahnow.com/stories/072602/LOChair.shtml

At work:
I agree that there should be standards, especially when an employee is in contact with the public. I DO NOT understand why African American hair is deemed offensive, unprofessional, unkempt and inapropriate. This is the hair I was born with. End of story.

At school:
If a student's hair was so dirty that they had lice or some other parasite, action should be taken because it puts the other childeren at risk, which is something that used to go on in my predominately white elementary school all the time.
If this is a private school, these childeren PAY to be there. The shcool needs to realize that their policy is culturally biased and adjust it.
I'm surprised that this girl is the first to wear cornrows.:confused:

Jaysis, what does one's hair have to do w/one's job performance? :confused: I just fail to see where braids are considered unkempt, or unprofessional.

Doesn't the government worker lady have civil service protection?

And I say this as someone who relaxes her hair.

That should be considered racial discrimination. There is nothing wrong with wearing braids as long as they are not dirty and unkept. If I was her I would sue. Just like most companies and schools have a dress code maybe now they should have a hair code that specifies what they feel is appropriate. People should know by now that most African American people express themselves through their choice of hairstyles. There are more issues that need to be focused on besides braids and afros I mean come on now. Does that make me a less of a person just because I can't comb through my hair. That black private school is really hindering our pride and heritage by not letting its students at least be liberal with their hair. They already have to wear uniforms they could at least be able express their individuality with their hair styles.
________
Green crack pictures

Umm, this is an office, so what does hair length have to do with job performance ability?! That clerk who wrote the "grooming" manual better be ready for a lawsuit b/c one is coming.. :rolleyes:

Yeah, they're gonna get sued. I've heard that people have been told that cornrows are a "vacation" style. I'm like, maybe for you and Bo Derek, but not for us. The fact that we even still have to talk about this pisses me off. I cannot for the life of me figure out why the hell they can't just leave us the f--- alone. I'm sorry for the potty mouth, but that's how I feel. Heffas come to work, ain't washed they hair, and they cool. Stringy binches. We wear a braid, they get they pannies all up in a bunch. Chill out and do some work. Wouldn't your energy be best used on actual work? Like it has been said, it has nothing to do with job performance. None. I understand you need to be presentable at work, but I am tellin you, people take the mess too far. It's a control tactic. You let them control how you wear your hear, they will want to control what you wear, and how you talk. I'm not down for all that. Even if you are in sales, it shouldn't make a difference. That just says to me that it's ok to judge someone by how they look. :mad: Ticks me off.

And WTF is goin on anyway???? :mad: Why couldn't my binch @$$ boss tell me not to wear cornrows??? :mad: Why is everyone getting law suits but me? Can I get a class action? Can I get someone to discriminate against me? Can I get paid? That's all I wanna know, can I get paid? Shoot, where she work so I can apply, lol.

DAG!

RELAX, RELATE,RELEASE IDEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool:

CTFU @ "Stringy binches" *lol*

Lawsuit!!!
 

now isn't this grounds for a lawsuit???? Some people are so dam oooooold fashion and think that their way of life is so immaculate.:mad: :mad:

I don't have a problem with difference of opinion as to hair as long as there is some consistency. If I can't wear braids, then Suzie can't come in with pink and purple hair. If a school, especially a private school, has consistent grooming and uniform standards, then they probably aren't running afoul of the law by saying no cornrows - but a public worker might have more reason to complain or sue, but it still might depend on policies and past practices - I think some police departments have been successful in banning braids and twists but a public office worker that doesn't wear a uniform might be treated differently. P.S., I have my own business and I don't allow employees to wear cornrows in my office because I think they are unprofessional - just like "unemployed" nails with everything except monopoly pieces glued to them, but some white folks play their cards by allowing every form of dress and hair under the sun and then they stumble over their words trying to explain why a black hair style offends them.

That's BS
 

What about those women who let their hair grow down to their asses that's what look nasty and unkept. That is gross.

I think cornrows are cute on men and women. If that person keep their hair neat I don't see the problem with them wearing cornrows.WTF!

The people obviously have too much time on their hands - or sipping/smoking some serious stuff :mad:

I see a potential lawsuit in the making.

CrucialCrimson: so a worker with Alicia Keys' hairstyle would not be hired by you? Just trying to understand.

What, exactly, makes them unprofessional? How can HAIR be professional? :confused: Have you noticed in your experience that people who wear cornrows do less work or their work performance is worse than those with "more professional" hair-do's? Or does it cause a distraction in the office? Are locks treated the same? Do you think those are unprofessional, too? Are microbraids, or singles allowed in your office? And if so, why that style of braid and not cornrows? If the hair is neat and well kept, what is the big deal? Do people 'act' different based on how their hair is styled? I ask this because I remember having a dress code explained to me at a job and being told that when you are dressed too comfortable, you tend to act a little too comfortable. Do you think it's the same with hair? And I'm not attacking you or your opinion, I just really want to know. And I really want to hear what you have to say, because you are Black. I think that adds a different spin on this topic. Because, if it is a Black boss telling a Black employee how to wear or not to wear their hair, is it still racism??? :confused:

Alicia would not be working in my office - her look is fine for the music industry or on a basketball court but not in my law office. We have a very conservative dress code in my office and that's just the way it is - this applies to hair and clothes and yes folks have been sent home for wearing their lime green party dress to work. Casual gear does sometimes lend itself to casual attitudes and sloppier work that is why it is something that we do only ocassionaly and dress down does not mean casual to me. It's a small office, but I don't tolerate casual attire or casual hair - if someone presented a religious argument, I would take it into consideration but quite frankly if that were their case it would have been obvious at the interview and dealt with at that point. For those of you claiming that cornrows aren't "trendy" why weren't you seeing them 5-10 years ago and you probably won't be seeing them 5-10 years from now. Cornrows haven't been as big a problem with employees as other "colored" hair, tacky tracks and nails, excessive jewelry, etc. If you don't like it you are free to seek employment elsewhere - if you would hire an attorney that had someone looking like Latrell Sprewell answering the phones more power to you but that's not what my clients expect when they walk into my office.

Law offices and banks tend to be on the more conservative end of the spectrum. Whereas show biz is on the extreme other end. Most workplaces lie somewhere in the middle.

Where? Perhaps YOU weren't seeing them. I can honestly say, I've ALWAYS seen women (mostly with naturals) wearing cornrows. Those and flat twists. But like I said, most if not all of the women I saw with these styles were naptural. And very afrocentric (in their dress and accessories). And I'm not saying I've seen as many women as are wearing cornrowed styles now. So maybe it's trendy for SOME. That does not make it trendy for ALL. The styles now are just more fancy... up-do's and the like, and fake hair is added. I can tell you, as long as there are Black women wearing their hair natural, you will always see cornrows. So in 5-10 years, you may not see them AS MUCH, but you will STILL see them.

I'm sorry, but I'm not with the whole argument that says cornrows are unprofessional. That's a bunch of horse pucky. I see braids, and cornrows, and twists as a part of my African-American heritage. So much of that heritage has already been taken away from me, and I'm going to hold on to the little bit that I have left. If cornrows and braids are unprofessional, then what's next?? Will people be getting fired for having bobs, or layers, or naturals?

I do not think that employers have to right to tell people how to wear their hair, no matter how conservative the office is. As long as your hair is well-kept and well-groomed, then their should be no issue with what style the hair is in. If my boss told me to change my hair because I had cornrows, I would give him or her my resignation. That is not the kind of company that I would want to work for.

Crucial Crimson, you said that your clients do not want to work with people who look like Latrell Sprewell. My question to you is, why would you want those kind of people as clients in the first place? If they cannot be accepting to something that is a part of your heritage and culture as someone of African descent, why would you even want to be bothered.

What about men wearing "traditionally women" hairstyles? I, do not think that braids, cornrows, or naturals are unprofessional (as long as they are clean and tidy), ON A WOMAN, but I would have to raise an eyebrow if I saw cornrows or a "Big Worm Perm" :p pulled back into a ponytail on a brotha (or even a white guy), especially if he worked within a conservative field. In this aspect, I would have to agree with CrucialCrimson.......

wow...cornrows viewed as unprofessional?
 

Well I have everyone to know I accompanied my mother-in-law to Johnny Cochran's office last Monday(memphis) to meet with an attorney(the attorney wasn't Johnny but she was hired by him to work in his firm) why.....and I do mean WHY did she have cornrows (cute, and tight) on her head and we didn't view her as being ghetto, unknowledgeable, or tacky. The sister was toooo professional and........... obviously one of the best attorneys in the country thinks so as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Putting labels on folks for african-heritage is such in poor taste!:mad:

Ok we talk about professionalism and hair yada yada but in a natural state, what would be considered professional? I know everyone saw the picture of the lady. At her length, what style in her natural state would be considered "professional enough" for her to come back to work? Doesn't the majority of women who choose to wear their hair in a natural state opt for twists and braids as opposed to wearing their hair picked out like a fro (depending on the length)? Are we saying our natural state is quite unnatural? Do I need a perm and some curls or a bun to keep my job? My hair has never helped my job performance, it's what's located under the hair that does it all. It's a shame that it boils down to what is acceptable for a certain society. Who made the rules at to what is considered proper in general? I agree with the dress code only to a certain extent (hosiery, no sandals, etc.) I'm glad I work for the Department of Treasury. They don't care what's on top of my head, they care about what's in it....

How "professional" is the senior vice president and editorial director of Essence, Susan Taylor? Is she considered "professional" or not professional enough?

afrochic you're an angel of wisdom & truth. ;) ;)
http://www.uniquehardware.co.uk/serv...grinangelA.gif

Ms. Taylor is an executive at a black-owned company. There is a difference.:D

Still we both have got to admit: she looks good, she's way too full of wisdom, and she's PROFESSIONAL & CLASSY ALL THE WAY!

I understand, but my question was "is she considered professional or not professional enough?" This question is based on her choice of hairstyle. Ok let's forget about black owned Essence for just a minute if you would. Say for instance you knew of this lady and had never seen her. All you knew was she was a black business woman. She walks into your office and bam, she has braids. Would you think she was less than suitable based on the fact she had braids?

Another lady on this board who runs a black owned business didn't agree with cornrows either. This was another reason why I brought Ms. Taylor's name up. Yes Essence is a black owned company, but all companies have shareholders/stockholders and others who have a financial interest who aren't necessarily black. This means she's still dealing with a variety of people who vary in the idea of what is considered professional. Even though she's running a business in a sector of entertainment and information, a business whether black owned or not still has to portray a level of professionalism. With that being said, since hair is the primary concern for the grooming/not professional enough debate, what type of image does Ms. Taylor portray.....professional? Yay or nay? :D

OK, I must be old, but thanks for clarifying. I -- and only I -- would look at a few other factors in addition to the hair. How is her handshake? Does she project confidence?

My only point with "black-owned" was that Ms. Taylor, in her professional life, doesn't have to necessarily concern herself with "other people's" standards. Sorry if I'm rambling -- it's humid in SoCal and I'm about to collapse.

Some of our own are against it, too.
 

uhhhhh, Soror. Armstrong Williams would beg to differ. Armstrong Williams is a Republican Brother, you've probably seen from time to time on political shows as an analyst. Anyway, when this was being discussed, he said, in his office that these styles were not appropriate in his office. Soooooo there isn't too much difference. There is, but there isn't.

Plus, the Essence people did sell a portion of it's control to some white group, didn't it? :confused:

You ladies are on point! Seriously blacks need to reconsider what is so-called professional hair. Most AA people who choose to wear their hair in its natural state will agree that why is there such a big rule implying that our afro's, braids etc are unkempt or dirty or simply unruly. Why is straight right?? Excuse black hair if it prefers to grow out rather than down. It it kinks and coils rather than lies limp. Just be honest White America, you don't want our black arses in your offices. Don't use hair type, now that's just ignorant. But I wonder where the get that idea from, nappy hair is bad hair...?? Not to me, its just as 'good' as straight hair to me!

Re: Some of our own are against it, too.
 

Yup, I've seen Armstrong Williams, and I agree with him some of the time -- mainly when it comes to the importance of intact families.

If this is the case, I think that hair may truly be in the eye of who is signing the checks. :confused:

I haven't heard about any outside investments in Essence Communications -- I'll have to check it out.

I see nothing wrong with braids, dreds or twists, but I have to agree that IMO cornrows are NOT professional- at least not casual cornrows that are not styled.

Professionally done cornrows can be cute and stylish and work in all but the most conservative of office environments. Casual cornrows are just that, casual, and not appropriate.

And no offense y'all, but regardless of what you or I think, ultimately the opinion that matters is that of the boss. Some bosses have a problem with styles seen as trendy, and cornrows are exactly that- you didn't see almost anyone wearing that style until Alicia Keyes came out with the Fallin video, and I doubt that you'll be seeing it in another five months. Be professional, and be appropriate- follow the guidelines set by the office. As long as there is parity, and you don't see white co-workers with blue hair, etc then I don't see the problem.

an aside
 

Essence has been owned by AOL Time Warner for 2 years!...but I get your point. 'We' are more accepting and understanding if 'we' run the shop.

Re: an aside
 

McCoyRed, thank you. And I suspect that Essence's advertisers know the magazine's audience and know who they will be dealing with.
;)

How "professional" is the senior vice president and editorial director of Essence, Susan Taylor? Is she considered "professional" or not professional enough

Do I think Ms.Taylor is professional in her braids? yes! Do I think she's doing her EDGES justice? NO!:p

sorry, back to the discussion

QTE:D

At DeltaQTE, you are wrong for that!! ha ha :D

Well said! I agree. Would our ancestors not have been able to obtain employment in law firms, banks, etc.? If they had not become slaves maybe the idea of our hair as being unprofessional or unkempt would not have existed. Maybe our hair would have been the norm. I wear my natural hair with pride and I exude professionalism. Majority of the time my hair is twisted or coiled. This is not a trend for me, it's a part of who I am. Why must we be ashame of the hair that God gave us? I would find out if a potential employer had a problem with my natural hair before I even accept a position. If they do then that is not the job for me.

OMG! I had to laugh at that one. :D :D

I believe that you should be able to wear you hair in any style that you want but I also believe that people should be realistic. Every work environment is not the same and rules dont always apply across the board. I work in a major hospital and I have to admit that some hairstyles are unprofessional depending on the job status of the individual. If I seen a doctor male or female wearing thier hair in elaborate cornrows I would feel that it was unprofessional. If it was a nurse's aide or a food service worker I wouldnt care. There are many braided styles that can be professional but I dont believe that the Lil Mo/Alicia Keys/A Iverson styles are one of them.

Jcc, you are right regardless of the texture in certain work environments, you must maintain a level of so-called conservativeness. But, why is it that when most people mention what a conservative hairstyle is they automatically rule out the variations of what typical natural african-american hair is capable of. I mean, not coming at you directly, but I get half the heat about my natural nappy hair from other black people. I worked at not one but two conservative internships last summer and the fall/sp of this year. Not once, did I hear any mentions of me needing to 'tame' or conservate my hair, please take into consideration that i live in Arkansas, when you hear my argument, not exactly progressive land. I wore twa's(teen weeny afros, cornrows-nothing major but always pulled into a bun, and twists.) I had zero complaints, only "how did u get it to do that" and "wow, thats the REAL texture??" I think we as a people need to wake up and realize that, sure for some natural hair is just a trend but for most, its a way of life. Why fight what naturally comes?

I had a thought...
 

I went to a meeting this afternoon at a different office. Anyway, they had ethnic diversity pictures up on the wall, and one of them did it by the alphabet. Well, for the letter C, it had Cornrows. It had a cute picture of a little girl with her beads. So that led me to think... why did we stop braiding our hair? At what age did having your hair french braided become uncool? And since cornrows are so 'trendy,' will we no longer see little girls with cornrows and beads?

I agree with you, Krisco, I never had this problem, either. As a matter of fact, the front of my hair is cornrowed now, and I just left the back out. I am versatile with my 'fro! :) I have gotten SO many compliments here at the office on the style. And it's not the first time. I wore them when I was in corporate america, too, so it's not just because I'm in nonprofit.

So the nurse's aide can have cornrows and not be unprofessional, but not the doctor? Because she has less education or because she is paid less? Why? :confused:

And Alicia Keys did NOT make cornrows popular, just the particular style she wears. Women were wearing cornrows before that. And not just natural heads, either. Where do yall live??? The cornrows were thicker and braided back. Sometimes with wooden beads on the ends and sometimes with just rubberbands and sometimes burnt at the ends. I can remember people having extensions in high school, and the front of the hair was cornrowed with loose braids in the back. That was 10 years ago. CT4, am I trippin? I remember people getting braids in undergrad with cornrowed styles, too. And I've been out of college for 5 years, WAY before Alicia Keys. Please, don't give her credit for something she had NOTHING to do with.

And another thing... why are people so set on giving the employers what they want? Doesn't anyone want to bring about change????? Why is it acceptable that an employer can tell you what to do with your HAIR????? At what point are changes made? Or do we just accept what is thrown at us for the sake of making a dollar? So, the rules aren't the same across the board... do we just leave it at that or try to change the rules? You know, the rules used to be that we were separate but equal. Before that, the rule was we weren't equal at all. So I guess I can pray that one day, my child's hair won't be a determining factor in his/her employment.

Re: I had a thought...
 

I know that my braids were considered to be "uncool" once I got to the seventh grade. That year, I went from attending a predominantly white, private school to a public school with a more even mixture of everyone. My sister always did my hair in pretty braids and cornrows, but when I got to middle school, I was told that my braids made me look like a little girl. I was only 11, wasn't I still a little girl????? :confused:

This leads me to agree with Krisco in that our hair seems to be more of an issue amongst ourselves. I never had any of the white students say anything about my cornrows and braided styles. Most of the girls said things like "I wish I could wear my hair like that." Why is it that some of us are ashamed of something that so many others wish they could have. Seems to me, that our people always have issues with the things that make us distinctively who we are.

I recently started wearing my hair in a natural style. I simply stopped relaxing it. Now I just wash it and let it take on its natural springy, kinky look. I absolutely love it. However, the only flack I have caught about the new look has been from my own people. I had one older family friend tell me I needed to just cut it all off because "folks with nice hair who don't know what to do with it, just need to get rid of it". Translation: If its not straight, its not right.

I'm just getting to the point where I don't feel that I should HAVE to chemically straighten my hair, or sit down with a pressing comb once a week to be accepted. It should be a personal choice. As long as I look neat and presentable, it really shouldn't matter.